smoothing joystick performance

[453=SGII_Wotan]

Hi

 

I am getting false or jittering input with my thrustmaster hotas one joystick, it is not giving smooth climb or dive performance

when I look at the calibration tool and pull back on the stick or push forward the x indicator gets ghosting or jittery false inputs

It really effects flight performance

 

is there any way of fixing this?

[Schwalberich]

Sounds like issues with the Pots of your Joystick. 

I had such behavior with my Saitek Throttle previously.

Cleaning them helped in getting the signal back to normal, but would require you to deassemble your Joystick in order to access the pots. 

 

Probably there are even videos on YouTube for your Joystick.

[1Sascha]

Sounds like a problem with the pots. Came across this reddit post while looking for info on your stick, and while I'm not sure you're having the same problem as the guy on reddit, it can't hurt for you to read through it:

 

 

Personally, I would recommend getting a stick with contactless sensors ASAP. Pots are unreliable in comparison to more modern sensors and will require maintenance at some point. Here's what my old CH Pro throttle looked like more or less out of the box (had to use a SW script to smooth out the jitters, but that's just putting a band aid on the wound). The "real" fix (according to CH) would've been to replace the pot.

 

 

I've been using sticks with contactless sensors since the days of the first MS Sidewinders and they've never gone wrong on me, ever. My old SW FF2 from 2004 or so still works great and I've never had to open it up to service it.

 

Ideally, I would recommend the VKB Gladiator Evo, but you can get a pot-less stick for a lot less than what the VKB costs. The TM 16K is, AFAIK, the cheapest option. Pretty sure that stick (but not the corresponding TWCS throttle) uses contactless sensors. Over here, it's currently around €50.

 

The VKB starts at around €170 all in for EU customers, not sure how much it would be in Australia - but it's *well* worth the extra money in my book. You get a true gimbal, meaning you can adjust spring tension individually and independently for both X and Y. You also get dampened and adjustable clutches resulting in a super smooth feel of the stick. Plus high-res sensors with 65535 positions for each axis.  It's an all plastic stick, but having used mine for 6 months now, I'm very confident that this is a "spend a bit more once, then never have to spend again" type of deal. While I know from other players that the cheaper mainstream stuff like TM 16k or Logitech Wingman, etc are throw-away items that will probably need replacing after a year or two.

 

Here's what the VKB's action on release looks like with hard spring and clutch on Y, medium spring and clutch on X ... just ignore that other stick at the end of the video which was set to "clutches off" at the time ... ? Also ignore the weird noises you hear when I move the stick. That's just the velcro I used to attach it to my desk - a bit of a necessity with the hard spring and clutch I'm running. Depending on preference you could set up the Gladiator just as wobbly as the Gunfighter (the second stick in the video) if you put in soft springs and disengaged the clutches.

 

 

 

 

S.

Edited October 13, 2022 by 1Sascha

[Sokol1]

On 10/13/2022 at 4:59 AM, 1Sascha said:

I've been using sticks with contactless sensors since the days of the first MS Sidewinders and they've never gone wrong on me, ever. My old SW FF2 from 2004 or so still works great and I've never had to open it up to service it.

 

 

As curiosity. Although the first MS Sidewinder's use contact less sensors - optical sensors (3D PRO, Precision PRO, MS Force Feedback PRO), the latest models use conventional pot's, including MS Force Feedback 2 USB - I have see pictures of one of they pot disassembled. Probable pots - are mention that made by Panasonic; using "Alien technology"... because they are lasting two decades.  ?

[1Sascha]

11 hours ago, Sokol1 said:

Although the first MS Sidewinder's use contact less sensors - optical sensors (3D PRO, Precision PRO, MS Force Feedback PRO), the latest models use conventional pot's, including MS Force Feedback 2 USB - I have see pictures of one of they pot disassembled.

Holy crap... I think you're right.... ?

 

I knew for certain that my first SWs (first gen stuff with that weird angular looking design on the grips and bases) were contactless, so I simply assumed the second gen was too. Well, plus the fact that I never had to calibrate or re-calibrate them and that they have a pretty high resolution on X and Y (1024 per IIRC). Seems to me though that they did put in pretty high quality stuff. Doing a bit of googling I came across this:

 

Quote

For a 10 year old device this is amazing good device. This thing is build to last. I opened up Logitech and Microsoft and it's beyound comparison. While Logitech I repaired several times with more or less sucess I think Microsoft won't need any repair unless pot's get to the end of lifetime. And pot's are working AS GOOD AS NEW AFTER 10 years. Who knows how much they can last. Microsoft FF2 is made 3 times as robust as Logitech, double motors size, everything looks better engineered and build to last. Every wire has it's pathway in plastic. Amazing.

Older forum post from RoF-board, but given the age of FF-products, they were already ancient when he posted this back in 2012.. ?

 

https://riseofflight.com/forum/topic/29129-ms-sidewinder-ff2-tech-info-pots-review-comparison/

 

So I guess it's not really true that all pots are crap and will cause problems short/mid term. Just the cheap variety that most manufacturers seem to opt for - including companies that should/should have known better, like CH Products. Although, in their defense, while my CH throttle's pot was spiking more or less out of the box, my CH Pro Pedals pot(s) held up for over two decades without need to service them.

 

S.

Edited October 15, 2022 by 1Sascha

[firdimigdi]

On 10/13/2022 at 6:18 AM, 453=SGII_Wotan said:

Hi

 

I am getting false or jittering input with my thrustmaster hotas one joystick, it is not giving smooth climb or dive performance

when I look at the calibration tool and pull back on the stick or push forward the x indicator gets ghosting or jittery false inputs

It really effects flight performance

 

is there any way of fixing this?

 

Apart from the aforementioned potentiometer replacement, if you cannot find a set that fits easily and cleaning the existing ones doesn't pan out you can solder 10uF or less capacitors between ground and signal pin to smooth out the signal. Of course that's a stop-gap like cleaning up the potentiometers.