What 10 airplanes you would pick for Battle of Sicily 1943 ?

[Youtch]

Want it or not, regardless of the theater, it is almost impossible to beat the sexyness of the list of aircrafts that would come with 1945.

[CUJO_1970]

190A-4 and A-3 were similar, but the A-4 had a number of key features that were not possible with A-3.

 

FW190A-4 was the first 190 that could have option for adjustable cooling gills, prior to them being serially produced on A5. This gives you the option to control the shutters for more speed or cooling as needed - an option that didn't exist on the A3. There were also strengthened drive components that became standardized, a slight redesign of the exhaust system to assist with cooling and the A4 was tuned to run on a refined (better) blend of C3 fuel.

 

The FW190A-4 was also the forerunner of G-series long range 'jabo-rei' with outer wing drop tanks - so, if we ever do get external tanks it has much more range than A-3, and option could be used on Normandy map as well. It had more armament/payload options than the A-3. The RAF had a couple of these, one tested extensively by RAF and was one of the 190s Eric Brown wrote about flying:

 

 

Another A-4 that landed at West Malling had both the cooling gills, along with the external wing racks, not an option for A-3:

 

 

There were other differences in A3/A4 but they involve radio/different vertical stab and won't make much difference in game.

 

Also, yes please gib :

 

 

 

 

Edited October 10, 2022 by CUJO_1970

[357th_KW]

Per Christopher Shores’ excellent Mediterranean Air War series, the Fw190 was operated by SKG10 and SchG 2 during Operation Husky.  These units appear to have been almost exclusively equipped with the A-5 per WW2.dk.  

[Vig]

Fiat G.50.

[DBFlyguy]

Sicily definitely has my vote if we aren't headed to the tropics of the Pacific... It'd be cool for the Regia Aeronautica to finally get some attention.  Plus getting to play as the 99th FS in career mode finally would be icing on the cake for me

 

 

[150GCT_Veltro]

12 hours ago, ww2fighter20 said:

No matter which aircraft are chosen, Sicily opens up the potential for many collector planes in the future.

So hopefully Sicily is next.

 

Excatly, you get the point.

 

 

[=gRiJ=Roman-]

Please, no German planes, only Italian.

[354thFG_Panda_]

3 minutes ago, =gRiJ=Roman- said:

Please, no German planes, only Italian.

Yes, it is time to showcase Italian design & engineering!

Edited October 11, 2022 by theRedPanda

[Youtch]

There is no doubt that Sicily is a very nice and original theater to play with, and probably the best map they could come up with for next BoX, and personally I cannot wait to fly and fight over Sicily.

 

But for as much as I am in love with the current collector plane Mc.202 which is very well modeled, and both very good looking esthetically and very pleasant to fly, i cannot get excited with having another less powerful or more powerful version of the Macchi in the game.

 

I am sure than italian and history fans will want to have all their ww2 birds well represented in IL2 and i respect that.

 

But fact is that the planes set of 1943 is far less exciting and much more conventional than all the cool toys which could potentially have come with the 1945 timelime.

 

Another version of a Fw190 with the A4 is never going to be remotely as exciting as a brand new Ta152.

 

Or tropical version of a Bf109G will never steal the show to a Me162 Comet or He162 People s fighter.

 

Or a new version of P38 or P40 will never be as satisfying as flying a P61 widowmaker.

 

In an ideal world i would buy Sicily map and 1945 planes. I seriously hope that one way or another all these late war planes will still come down the road at least as collector planes. 

 

It is like Battle of Normandy. While Bf109 Late and Fw190A6 are probably the planes i nowadays use the most in MP while playing Normandy map on Combat Box, they are not the one i got excited about nor the ones that made me buy BoN.

 

It is only when they released the Me410, the Arado and the Mosquito that i immediatly bought the prerelease to experiment with these new plane, and these made me marvel and feel like a kid again. The new map for sure was very exciting but there is no benefit in buying the prerelease version except the 10% discount.

 

While i am fully aware that this game is not WT, and it is a solid simulator with deep respect for the historical background, throwing some new toys (even though we are talking about limited number here) is still a primary factor to attract newcomers and renew the love of old il2 crowd who possesses most of the GB released to date.

 

This whole thing is making me think again about the BoX approach.

 

While you cannot have an italian theater without a Bf109 and a Fw190 and therefore they are somehow forced to include them to the package for historical reason and to propose a full standalone product, plus they keep production cost lower, for the Il2 all time fans these are just another copy/paste with no much flavour.

 

The standalone apprach is very good for people who wants to buy for the first time a BoX, and i praise 1C for this compared to what DCS and WT are proposing. I started with BoB and i was very happy to have a full product.

 

I wonder which is the split % of customers having only 1 BoX vs customers having most or all the GBs. I suspect that owners of 1 BoX only (the typical Steam players) would either correspond to people trying IL2 for the first time and then discovering it is not really their cup of tea and hence stopping to play IL2 OR it is just a temporary state for future hardcore IL2 fans waiting till the next sales so that they can afford to buy more. It would be interesting to look at the number of products live players own after playing more than 1 year. It is hard to guess what drives more income for 1C if it is the sum of 1 time and 1 time only buyers or the IL2 fans buying as much as they can afford to.

 

Maybe 1C shall propose to the Il2 fans and to the people who bought many of the GBs a different approach, like an upgrade to get a new map only or a subset of planes instead of the full package, or propose more DLCs. This would be something marketing and commercial department should really explore to retain their core crowd on the long term.

[150GCT_Veltro]

We have two must to have fighters for Italy 43-45: Macchi 205 III Serie and G-10 Erla. A MUST. We can have different views for the others, Re. 2005 first of all, but not for these two stallions. 

Edited October 11, 2022 by 150GCT_Veltro

[sevenless]

15 hours ago, 357th_KW said:

Per Christopher Shores’ excellent Mediterranean Air War series, the Fw190 was operated by SKG10 and SchG 2 during Operation Husky.  These units appear to have been almost exclusively equipped with the A-5 per WW2.dk.  

 

"Almost" is the key word here.

 

https://airwarpublications.com/download/technical-notes/

[CountZero]

15 hours ago, 357th_KW said:

Per Christopher Shores’ excellent Mediterranean Air War series, the Fw190 was operated by SKG10 and SchG 2 during Operation Husky.  These units appear to have been almost exclusively equipped with the A-5 per WW2.dk.  

Doesent this show that they have mix of A4s and A5s ?

https://ww2.dk/oob/bestand/schlacht/biiskg10.html

https://ww2.dk/oob/bestand/schlacht/bergskg10.html

Also there was A4s that got saved from Tunis, and i remenber one A4 was captured in Sicily by Americans, so i think they still had few.

Its same as for Normandy where main 190 for DDay was A8 but they did A6 that was there earlyer, Sicily is also not just Husky, it would probably be like Normandy, not focused on one operation but few months before and after.

 

 

 

[CountZero]

3 hours ago, 150GCT_Veltro said:

We have two must to have fighters for Italy 43-45: Macchi 205 III Serie and G-10 Erla. A MUST. We can have different views for the others, Re. 2005 first of all, but not for these two stallions. 

I dont belive next DLC will have G10, also for Sicily they are to early, and to do whole Italy front you would need to big map for game and Rome or Milano and so on, and they said no big urban areas. Citys in Sicily and proposed area are small and not bigger then ones on BoN map. So only way to get G10 in game is Poland 45 without Berlin and Warsaw (but whats something new to GB team for that DLC ?), or collector airplane later on.

Edited October 11, 2022 by CountZero

[Youtch]

I understand that a map with Sicily will have to come with a piece of Italy and probably Tunis as well.

 

It might even cover Sardinia and Malta.

[CountZero]

4 minutes ago, Youtch said:

I understand that a map with Sicily will have to come with a piece of Italy and probably Tunis as well.

 

It might even cover Sardinia and Malta.

Minimum for Sicily map is to have Malta, then you can do map size that game have now, ~350x350km, depending on airplanes they wont they can ditch Tunis part if map of ~500x350km is to big for that . To add Sardinia you have to add more Italy main land and Napoli, so again big urban stuff and your making map then ~650x650km. So i doubt they would add Sardinia, as you have to make mutch bigger map and for no gain, and it dosent open bases for airplanes you cant do with just adding east part of Tunis.

[Youtch]

An area containing Sardinia/Italy including Naples/Tunis/Malta is still 70% of water hence maybe feasible.

 

There is the question of Naples and Tunis which indeed are big cities.

[357th_KW]

2 hours ago, sevenless said:

 

"Almost" is the key word here.

 

https://airwarpublications.com/download/technical-notes/

Again, based these units and referencing WW2.dk we’re talking about 158 A-5’s, 10 F-3’s (basically an A-5/U17) and 12 A-4’s in June, balancing even more heavily towards the A-5 as the campaign progresses.  So I’ll stand by my statement, and in my opinion using an aircraft slot for an aircraft variant that was barely present in theater and is nearly identical to the A-3 and A-5 already in game is a waste.

[sevenless]

34 minutes ago, 357th_KW said:

So I’ll stand by my statement, and in my opinion using an aircraft slot for an aircraft variant that was barely present in theater and is nearly identical to the A-3 and A-5 already in game is a waste.

 

No problem with that. It will be a business decision anyways.

[Traffic]

This gentleman already laid out the perfect plan a year + ago:

 

 

[jollyjack]

Yep, and a P40F version with some more power especially would be better than the current P40E as it came with Kuban.

[FliegerAD]

3 hours ago, sevenless said:

 

No problem with that. It will be a business decision anyways.

...and I doubt it is a good idea to exclude German aircraft from the business perspective. You want to get new players, they want their 109s and 190s.

It is much wiser to mix them, generating intrest in Italian planes and add more of them later on as collector's aircraft.

 

Also, historically it would be rather weird to completely exclude the main defenders of Sicily in the air, the Luftwaffe. Even the Italians used a number of German aircraft, like 109s and Stukas.

 

Mixing up the axis forces is probably the best way to do it. Sure, I would buy an all-Italian line-up but I doubt the devs are willing to take that risk.

[CUJO_1970]

8 hours ago, sevenless said:

 

"Almost" is the key word here.

 

https://airwarpublications.com/download/technical-notes/

 

 

In addition III./ZG 2 as well as II./JG 2 were operating the FW190A-4 since November/December 1942. III./SKG 10 was formed from the latter.

 

The FW190A-4 did the bulk of the heavy lifting from late '42 to early '43.

[CUJO_1970]

10 hours ago, CountZero said:

Doesent this show that they have mix of A4s and A5s ?

https://ww2.dk/oob/bestand/schlacht/biiskg10.html

https://ww2.dk/oob/bestand/schlacht/bergskg10.html

Also there was A4s that got saved from Tunis, and i remenber one A4 was captured in Sicily by Americans, so i think they still had few.

Its same as for Normandy where main 190 for DDay was A8 but they did A6 that was there earlyer, Sicily is also not just Husky, it would probably be like Normandy, not focused on one operation but few months before and after.

 

 

 

 

III./ZG 2 was also operating FW190A-4 in theater since November 1942.  It may be confusing as III./SKG 10 was formed from III./ZG 2

 

II./JG 2 was of course also flying the FW190A-4 in theater starting December 1942.

 

 

[Field-Ops]

Just want an Me210 and A20G

[=X51=VC_]

I'd prefer a later Italy scenario that can include the Re.2005 and G.55 straight away.

 

The A-36 would only be interesting to me if it had the mods to be made a P-51A or vice-versa. I would suggest this plane is implemented in the same manner as the Fw 190As that have mods to make them F/G.

 

Late P-40 I wholeheartedly support, Merlin or not. Someone already mentioned mods to turn an F into an L, but could we go all the way and have the engine options for F/K/L/M in one package? Not N I guess as that's a new fuselage.

 

Ditto Spitfire Vc or IXc early instead of the VIII. I'd lean towards the Vc as that would again allow tons of options including LF engines and 4-cannon armament.

[sevenless]

11 hours ago, FliegerAD said:

...and I doubt it is a good idea to exclude German aircraft from the business perspective. You want to get new players, they want their 109s and 190s.

It is much wiser to mix them, generating intrest in Italian planes and add more of them later on as collector's aircraft.

 

True. This sim runs a little "thin" on the 109s for 1943 timeframe though. Only possibility would be a G6-Trop for JG77 and JG53 in Sicily and that one doesn't significantly differ from the G-6 (early) we already have as a collector plane. However, next weeks will show if indeed Sicily 1943 will be the next module, or if perhaps they decide on something completely different.

8 hours ago, CUJO_1970 said:

 

 

In addition III./ZG 2 as well as II./JG 2 were operating the FW190A-4 since November/December 1942. III./SKG 10 was formed from the latter.

 

The FW190A-4 did the bulk of the heavy lifting from late '42 to early '43.

 

True. But if they take Sicily 1943 all somehow will revolve around a timeframe after last Axis troops in Tunisia surrendered (05/43) and that means the module most likely won't start before end of may 1943 and may last until october including the timeframe of the Salerno landings (09/43). Interesting time period.

[-=PHX=-SuperEtendard]

I think the 190 A-4 is a touch too similar to the A-5 with the limited planeset slots that could be used for a more unique plane instead.

Re 2001 would be cool to have, as the DB 601 based counterpart to the MC 202, and this plane wasn't featured in old IL-2 back in the day, at least not in the original one or HSFX mega mod that I remember.

[CountZero]

I just dont think they would risk it on not having any german fighter so i pick one that i could fined was there and is not in game, options are limited if they just dont wont to add same 190 or 109 airplanes we have in game now just with tropical dust filter on. But then maybe by something new to GB they ment DLC without 109 or 190s

 

[=gRiJ=Roman-]

I say again, please no more Bf109 or Fw190. We need sth different to keep this sim alive ....

Edited October 13, 2022 by =gRiJ=Roman-

[ITAF_Airone1989]

27 minutes ago, =gRiJ=Roman- said:

I say again, please no more Bf109 or Fw190. We need sth diffrent to keep this sim alive ....

Don't worry, your Bf109-G10 and Fw190-A2 will be presented in the next DD

[migmadmarine]

As much as I have no gripe with further 109/190 versions, I think for a Sicily pack going all Italian would be a good move given how many people do seem to be tired of them. In the eastern and western front packs you need (at least in how the model has functioned so far) one or two axis fighters, which if only the Germans are present are inevitably going to be a 109 and 190. With the Italian front, the Italians can cover all roles, and German units can come in via other packs for career. 

 

For the allied lineup, would the P-38G be able to appear in Normandy?

[DBFlyguy]

1 hour ago, migmadmarine said:

 

 

For the allied lineup, would the P-38G be able to appear in Normandy?

The P-38G didn't appear on the ETO, only in the MTO as far as I've seen

[migmadmarine]

That seems  to correspond with what I've seen