Strange feeling of late...

[ShampooX]

Great thread and I couldn't agree more.

 

See what I don't get, as a tanker, is that 1C has delivered,  either intentionally, or unintentionally, and with about 30% effort, probably the best combined arms PvP tank game available right now.  Everything that War Thunder and World of Tanks players hate about those games is "fixed" on servers like FVP and Advance & Secure.  This is a flight audience so I won't bore you with the details.  Gunner Heat? LOL not ready yet.  Post Scriptum and Hell Let Loose - f@ck yes..... amazing PvP potential but I don't always have 3 of my friends around to crew with me.  WT and WOT?  Kids games....that alot of adults play because they don't think there is anything else around.

 

Now if you take a look back at War Thunder for example, they grew the tank player base to about 300% of the plane player base in about half the time it took to develop the flight sim part of the game in the first place.  Ok, sim is not exactly the right word.  My point here is that there is a gigantic untapped market of dudes who like to play tanks, but want real maps, don't want kill cams, and would like some tiny semblance of historical balance and accuracy.  Hello?  calling Dr. Tank Crew?  Where TF are you?

 

So while you fly boys think the game is dying a slow death (which I agree the Normandy drop has had some unexpected impact, not the least of which seems like less players on line)...can you imagine what it's like to be a tanker knowing that this is the best combined arms PvP tank game on the market right now and watching 1C literally piss down it's back?   And knowing further there are easily 10 thousand tank players right now ( a day) who would pay money for a better experience if they just knew it was out there?  Or if it were supported?  And I say this based on a average of 90K War Thunder players at any given time, conservatively 1/2 of those are tanking only and then 1/3rd of those players  who are historical accuracy buffs.  

 

So for about a 10 to 20% increase in attention paid to TC development, and with a little oompf in marketing and renewed You Tube content support (it kicked ass a year ago) maybe 1C can go from 50-100 hardcore tank players to over 1,000.  I mean shit - 30K War Thunder tankers a day.....are you kidding me????  You can't capture 3% of that???   Christ, I could fall out of bed in the morning and hit better numbers than 1C.

 

I'm actually a CEO in real life and I think about this stuff.

 

If your market is shrinking, find a new market.  hint hint.  Tanks

[Guest deleted@83466]

Maybe I’m just way too baked, but those words seem to come out of you like syrup.  I mean that’s a mouthful, don’t ya think?

 

edit: sorry, Elon, I didn’t mean to offend you.

Edited October 7, 2022 by SeaSerpent

[Denum]

1 hour ago, ShampooActual said:

I'm actually a CEO in real life and I think about this stuff.

Oh yeah me too bro.

 

Secrets Bill Gates. Trying to steal all this secrets for the next CFS!

 

if you were really thinking about this stuff you'd probably realize the 1C isn't in a hurry to completely overhaul it's engine for something that didn't sell that well to start with.

[ShampooX]

43 minutes ago, Denum said:

Oh yeah me too bro.

 

Secrets Bill Gates. Trying to steal all this secrets for the next CFS!

 

if you were really thinking about this stuff you'd probably realize the 1C isn't in a hurry to completely overhaul it's engine for something that didn't sell that well to start with.

I don't get it.  Who's talking about overhauling the engine?  I'm talking about a few new vehicles, some more cammos maybe some dedicated servers, a regular schedule of improvements, etc etc......  like I said about 20% more effort.  Sorry if I offended you.

[Denum]

9 minutes ago, ShampooActual said:

I don't get it.  Who's talking about overhauling the engine?  I'm talking about a few new vehicles, some more cammos maybe some dedicated servers, a regular schedule of improvements, etc etc......  like I said about 20% more effort.  Sorry if I offended you.

None of those things will bring more players when the overall experience in WT is better.

 

No tree mines, no Uber AI sniping you through bushes. The scenery is built with tanks in mind. 

 

 

Edited October 7, 2022 by Denum

[Guest deleted@83466]

 

21 minutes ago, ShampooActual said:

I don't get it.  Who's talking about overhauling the engine?  I'm talking about a few new vehicles, some more cammos maybe some dedicated servers, a regular schedule of improvements, etc etc......  like I said about 20% more effort.  Sorry if I offended you.

Pardon me, just one more thing..how do you figure “about 20% more effort”?  I presume you read and absorbed their code, Russian language comment delimiters and all?  
 

nevermind, I shouldn’t have asked, not really up for reading War and Peace tonight…

Edited October 7, 2022 by SeaSerpent

[CountZero]

Unlike first air dlc that had balanced airplanes , first TC has one sided tanks, so no wonder its tosted, WT crew is MP orianted, so how you gona atract them when you have tanks for only one side...

 

Im sure that all thouse havy tank lovers who are stuck on playing with tigers will buy churchill and play with it in MP LOL

 

 

 

 

Kaboom WW1 iinfantry tank to fight perfect condition tigers... no wonder players stay in other tank games...

 

 

PTO in CloD, perfect fit that game can handle flak levels big ships have... would not be suprised to get B-17s there also before here...

 

This game should stick to fighters... more 109s

[DN308]

18 hours ago, 76SQN-Minimayhemtemp said:

Steps to fix (IMHO):

 

1) Drop Tank Crews.  Pointless product with better competitor products on the market.  After the Churchil of course as people have paid for that, including me.  Regrets abound.

2) Pause drop tanks.  Pointless in multiplayer currently and there are more important things to fix.  Yes some career flights are impossible but there are plenty of career modes that are working.

3) Enhance BoN map

4) Fix WW1 flight and damage models.  Made worse by BoN changes, which was supposed to 'across the board' enhancements.  This actually translates to 'ww2 specific' enhancements.

5) Release FC2 map and career mode.

6) Pick up drop tanks again

7) Enhance AI

? Next BoX

 

That's my opinion.  Classic product delivery team issue of promising too much and spreading themselves too thin. 

 

Flame me.  Just like Ricky Gervais at the Golden Globes 2020 ceremony, I don't care.  Until 3, 4 and 5 are done I'm not playing anymore and am instead just keyboard warrioring on the forums. Oorah.

4) Flyabla C47

5) Flyable B26...

[Irishratticus72]

6 hours ago, Gambit21 said:

...not until it's a Corsair, or a Zero...or an F-4. Until then I'm soley about logistics. 

Great, Amazon finally nailed you down.

[76SQN-Minimayhemtemp]

6 hours ago, ShampooActual said:

Great thread and I couldn't agree more.

 

See what I don't get, as a tanker, is that 1C has delivered,  either intentionally, or unintentionally, and with about 30% effort, probably the best combined arms PvP tank game available right now.  Everything that War Thunder and World of Tanks players hate about those games is "fixed" on servers like FVP and Advance & Secure.  This is a flight audience so I won't bore you with the details.  Gunner Heat? LOL not ready yet.  Post Scriptum and Hell Let Loose - f@ck yes..... amazing PvP potential but I don't always have 3 of my friends around to crew with me.  WT and WOT?  Kids games....that alot of adults play because they don't think there is anything else around.

 

Now if you take a look back at War Thunder for example, they grew the tank player base to about 300% of the plane player base in about half the time it took to develop the flight sim part of the game in the first place.  Ok, sim is not exactly the right word.  My point here is that there is a gigantic untapped market of dudes who like to play tanks, but want real maps, don't want kill cams, and would like some tiny semblance of historical balance and accuracy.  Hello?  calling Dr. Tank Crew?  Where TF are you?

 

So while you fly boys think the game is dying a slow death (which I agree the Normandy drop has had some unexpected impact, not the least of which seems like less players on line)...can you imagine what it's like to be a tanker knowing that this is the best combined arms PvP tank game on the market right now and watching 1C literally piss down it's back?   And knowing further there are easily 10 thousand tank players right now ( a day) who would pay money for a better experience if they just knew it was out there?  Or if it were supported?  And I say this based on a average of 90K War Thunder players at any given time, conservatively 1/2 of those are tanking only and then 1/3rd of those players  who are historical accuracy buffs.  

 

So for about a 10 to 20% increase in attention paid to TC development, and with a little oompf in marketing and renewed You Tube content support (it kicked ass a year ago) maybe 1C can go from 50-100 hardcore tank players to over 1,000.  I mean shit - 30K War Thunder tankers a day.....are you kidding me????  You can't capture 3% of that???   Christ, I could fall out of bed in the morning and hit better numbers than 1C.

 

I'm actually a CEO in real life and I think about this stuff.

 

If your market is shrinking, find a new market.  hint hint.  Tanks

 

Calling bulls on bold.  You're in the detail way too much to be a CEO.  Jokes, maybe you are.  Maybe I'm Princess Anne.

 

Anyway, point on TC is that while there is a foundation of a good game, and in all honesty the thought of having a true combined arms WW2 combat simulator makes my balls tingle (so maybe I'm not Princess Anne...), in its current guise the game is in no way polished enough to tease people away from War Thunder and the like onto IL2.  And the issue boils down to the core engine being, well, old, all supported by a much smaller team.  Plus if they divert resources away from flight enhancements/fixes and onto TC then there'll be a lot of upset plane-folk.

 

In the ideal world tanks go broom, planes go zoom, and both go boom, all on the same map in MP that is well populated on the ground and in the sky, with well functioning mechanics (for both WW1 and WW2!).  But until then, prioritise what doesnt work well before delivering enhancements.

[Bars-]

17 часов назад, Voidhunger сказал:

all fo these games you listed are arcade games (only steel fury is good but its outdated now), sorry not interested. TC is promising if they put some love and resources into it.

I like IL2 Great Battles and I agree bad physics in simulator is a major problem. For example ballistics in such games like Post Scriptum is unacceptable. But in terms of environment any surface gameplay in IL2 isn't good at all either. For example if you do a low level "air to ground"  attack or if you just look around while taxiing on airfield you might just notice those almost unplayable terrible flat unrealistic ugly landscapes around you (not mentioning nightmare trees).  And those poor devils Tank Crew users, how on earth do they play in that desert like landscape? Have they ever tried Post Scriptum tank battle in realistic environment? All that  ditches, normal trees, depressions and hills, real town streets close quarters combat, ambushing and stealth tactics make Post Scriptum  armored gameplay much more realistic and way more fun than IL2 Tank Crew. That is why regardless we call IL2 our favorite game and the best simulator,  unfortunately it wouldn't be quite right to call it more realistic game than others. 

 

 

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

This game need to enhance  current game   engine which could have and cope with  modern looking sfx , earth details and object physic. The ground pounding look so weak. You drop bomb on a object, low fidelity exlosion appers,  object change instace to destroyed in one frame, small smoke last dozen second... 
You can have dozen obejcts destoryed by  20 attakers and after they done, three minutes leater the whole area looks the same, peacfull green, without any notian to what happed there.  Even dust after bulets hiting the ground last for to short. Same with water surfaces splashes. No fun destroying stuff to me, no immersion after. 

Edited October 7, 2022 by 1PL-Husar-1Esk

[BOO]

So now we’ve got rid of everything including the game engine.  
 

Max Bygraves has a lot to answer for….

[MajorMagee]

I've spent time with everything from the original Panzer Elite to Steel Beasts Pro PE. As something in between, Tank Crew (ignoring the unresolved bugs) is more like Panzer Elite with better graphics than a military grade combined arms (i.e. Armor, Infantry, Artillery, and limited Tac Air) sim. That's an okay place to be in the market (Modernized Panzer Elite) if you clean up a few of the worst bugs that are getting in the way of game play.

Edited October 7, 2022 by MajorMagee

[danielprates]

You know, if anyone is finding himself with a surplus of time and energy in his hands, there is a cute new Jeffrey Dahmer series at Netflix well worth binging.

[Trooper117]

13 hours ago, Gambit21 said:

...not until it's a Corsair

 

When the next GB is released (Korea) you can knock yourself out mate!

[MAJ_stug41]

People are complaining about the terrain fidelity, but there is a Prokhorovka map specifically for tanks with high terrain detail. It is also part of a nicely sized kursk air map. 

[Voidhunger]

10 minutes ago, stug41 said:

People are complaining about the terrain fidelity, but there is a Prokhorovka map specifically for tanks with high terrain detail. It is also part of a nicely sized kursk air map. 

unfortunately AI cannot navigate through the woods and buldings and QMB set you in the open field. So its pointless to play on prokhorovka map

[IckyATLAS]

I have never been a tank guy which I already mentioned in the past. For me nice tanks are vehicles to shoot at from planes and also vehicles that you can program for nice battle scenes. They should have a good AI and that's it. For, this flight sim there was no need to develop tank cockpits, all the internals and make them "driveable" by the player. But I am not in this game business and so if Jason felt that it was necessary to develop TC fine, and it seems it did not divert too much the dev team from GB. Nevertheless, it is not sure that the map and engine technology was adapted for Tanks. The risk here is that you have very nice and top of its class tanks, but the maps and battle scenes are not up to the task.

The tanks are on the ground and are low speed moving stuff, and the interaction between, ground and all the objects become paramount. You see all objects from very nearby. The textures of houses, buildings etc. must be at much higher res (windows, doors, stone and wood parts, grass, plants, trees, bushes) than with passing planes, simply because with the tank are just nearby and static. The physical interaction collision, destruction, with stone houses, wooden houses, walls, trees, bushes, other vehicles, tanks etc. becomes just THE thing to make it realistic. I am not sure the engine and the map technology were right for it. 

 

On the other hand, Flying Circus is for me the right addition if we had a decent map. The map of Arras is really not up to the task, the trenches are awful, and all the no man's land surface pocketed by artillery craters is graphically appalling, (in terms of today's visual image quality expectation) and nothing better came.

 

Have all these efforts succeeded in enlarging the player base for more revenue? I don't know only Jason knows.

[moustache]

2 hours ago, stug41 said:

People are complaining about the terrain fidelity, but there is a Prokhorovka map specifically for tanks with high terrain detail. It is also part of a nicely sized kursk air map. 

did you play it?

[Wolfpack345]

12 hours ago, CountZero said:

Kaboom WW1 iinfantry tank to fight perfect condition tigers... no wonder players stay in other tank games..

 

 

 

Don't worry, I'll use the Churchill and clap tigers with it. 

Edited October 7, 2022 by Wolfpack345

[Denum]

If they gave the tanks a little more love I'd play them more, but it's just lacking a little something for me. 

 

But I'm not a big tank fan.

[Jade_Monkey]

On 10/9/2022 at 1:49 PM, Denum said:

If they gave the tanks a little more love I'd play them more, but it's just lacking a little something for me. 

 

But I'm not a big tank fan.

 

 

I think the tanks are fine but at the ground level there is simply not enough detail.

 

Compare it to Hell Let Loose, which is an FPS (with overly simplified tank controls) and has amazing ground detail, this just feels a bit desolate. 

 

The maps are just not built for tanks, even the TC map.

[343KKT_Kintaro]

26 minutes ago, Jade_Monkey said:

 

 

I think the tanks are fine but at the ground level there is simply not enough detail.

 

Compare it to Hell Let Loose, which is an FPS (with overly simplified tank controls) and has amazing ground detail, this just feels a bit desolate. 

 

The maps are just not built for tanks, even the TC map.

 

(bold type is mine)

 

"Tank Crew" is a map and a set of ground vehicles... working with the core engine of a flight simulator. Do not ask a core engine which is intended to show to the player a world that is visible from an altitude of tens of thousands of feet... to ressemble "Hell Let Loose". Please, let's be serious.

 

"The maps are just not built for tanks, even the TC map": obviously, as per the above.

 

 

[Jade_Monkey]

3 minutes ago, 343KKT_Kintaro said:

 

(bold type is mine)

 

"Tank Crew" is a map and a set of ground vehicles... working with the core engine of a flight simulator. Do not ask a core engine which is intended to show to the player a world that is visible from an altitude of tens of thousands of feet... to ressemble "Hell Let Loose". Please, let's be serious.

 

"The maps are just not built for tanks, even the TC map": obviously, as per the above.

 

Great, so you agree.

[343KKT_Kintaro]

Just now, Jade_Monkey said:

 

Great, so you agree.

 

 

Sorry, I apology, I thought you were complaining about TC! Thus yes, I agree...

 

[Jade_Monkey]

2 minutes ago, 343KKT_Kintaro said:

Sorry, I apology, I thought you were complaining about TC! Thus yes, I agree...

 

I was dreaming of a game where we get the tank detail of TC combined with the ground detail of HLL.

 

I'm aware that they are very different monsters and i have no hope of seeing it happen anytime soon, but that doesn't mean I can't express my wishes.

 

I think the tanks in TC are really great especially in VR) but you operate in a very bland world with no terrain nuance.

[claudiusvembu]

6 minutes ago, Jade_Monkey said:

 

I was dreaming of a game where we get the tank detail of TC combined with the ground detail of HLL.

 

I'm aware that they are very different monsters and i have no hope of seeing it happen anytime soon, but that doesn't mean I can't express my wishes.

 

I think the tanks in TC are really great especially in VR) but you operate in a very bland world with no terrain nuance.

One exists...it's called Post Scriptum, absolutely realistic ballistics and best sound and explosion FX. 

[Avimimus]

Honestly, I'm a late adopter of Tank Crew, but I'm pretty satisfied with it. I think there could be improvements to AI spotting (both having one's own AI crew notify the player about things they see - especially important when playing as the gunner - and making enemy tanks spotting a bit less perfect). I also think it could do with some infantry AT teams. But overall, it is much more worthwhile than I thought it would be (and much better than the free tanks would lead me to expect).

[Gambit21]

32 minutes ago, Avimimus said:

Honestly, I'm a late adopter of Tank Crew, but I'm pretty satisfied with it. I think there could be improvements to AI spotting (both having one's own AI crew notify the player about things they see - especially important when playing as the gunner - and making enemy tanks spotting a bit less perfect). I also think it could do with some infantry AT teams. But overall, it is much more worthwhile than I thought it would be (and much better than the free tanks would lead me to expect).

 

It has potential, but it's not quite there for me.

I can design some cool missions and with a ton of scripting get the AI to do mostly what I want, but it's a TON of baby-sitting. Meaning, do this, do that, go here, then do this etc etc.

It will be interesting to see where, if anywhere, they go with it.

[BladeMeister]

34 minutes ago, Gambit21 said:

 

It has potential, but it's not quite there for me.

It will be interesting to see where, if anywhere, they go with it.

This +1. Like ROF ,which I was a die hard fan of and own all of it, all of the elements were there for ROF to be one of the best WWI flight sims ever, so does TC and FC have this opportunity, but they left ROF so close but unfinished and hung a lot of people out to dry with that one. I am not convinced they won't do the same with FC and TC. It seems simulation development teams never quite take their creations to that very polished state.

 

S!Blade<><

[Avimimus]

1 hour ago, Gambit21 said:

It has potential, but it's not quite there for me.

I can design some cool missions and with a ton of scripting get the AI to do mostly what I want, but it's a TON of baby-sitting. Meaning, do this, do that, go here, then do this etc etc.

It will be interesting to see where, if anywhere, they go with it.

 

So you are saying it could do with a dedicated group AI or RTS layer?

[343KKT_Kintaro]

44 minutes ago, BladeMeister said:

This +1. Like ROF ,which I was a die hard fan of and own all of it, all of the elements were there for ROF to be one of the best WWI flight sims ever, so does TC and FC have this opportunity, but they left ROF so close but unfinished and hung a lot of people out to dry with that one. I am not convinced they won't do the same with FC and TC. It seems simulation development teams never quite take their creations to that very polished state.

 

S!Blade<><

 

 

Well, in fact, Tank Crew is definitely the continuity of the process that originated Rise of Flight. The oldest source I ever found on the origin of Rise of Flight (now deleted from the internet I think) was a Russian media that, back in 2003, published an interview to one or two members of dStrict, the company that was launching the "Sikorsky Project". These guys in this interview enlighted the fact that their project aimed for the release of a WWI combat flight sim... but allowing the player to simulate some military action at ground level as well, including the use of vehicles, guns and infantry. The Great Battles series hasn't stepped yet into the infantry level of fight, but Tank Crew is deffinitely ground-level combat... so here we are, this is an achievement of a long ago originally planned feature. My point is that Tank Crew, as an expansion, is within the DNA of Rise of Flight/Great Battles.

 

PS: I'm unable to read Russian... thus, regarding that interview of 2003, I used an online automatic translator.

 

[moustache]

11 hours ago, Jade_Monkey said:

I was dreaming of a game where we get the tank detail of TC combined with the ground detail of HLL.

something like the land proposed by DCS would already be very very good...

 

 

11 hours ago, Gambit21 said:

It has potential, but it's not quite there for me.

I can design some cool missions and with a ton of scripting get the AI to do mostly what I want, but it's a TON of baby-sitting. Meaning, do this, do that, go here, then do this etc etc.

It will be interesting to see where, if anywhere, they go with it.

it's actually a big problem: the AI "stupidly" follows the orders, it does not adapt a minimum to the situation:
in a quick mission, shoot a convoy, the AI will always continue on its way, it will never retreat, never look for the origin of the shots (even if it is always the same), never flank your tank. she shot your tank at silly distances (like, shooting a sherman at 1800m on the frontal glacis of a tiger...)...

luckily there are very talented modders here who manage to create everything from even very interesting/lively/immersive missions and campaign, but there is almost no replayability due to the AI

[Trooper117]

10 hours ago, BladeMeister said:

am not convinced they won't do the same with FC and TC.

 

'This is the way'... and unfortunately, I agree with you.