New Pico Neo4 standalone device: Pancake lenses, 2160x2160 per eye and 429€.

[simfan2015]

7 hours ago, 102nd-YU-cmirko said:

works perfectly with Pico ^^

openvr_fsr. I tested it in some racing games.

I got more "shimmering".

But indeed FPS increased.

Did not yet test it with IL-2 nor DCS (the openvr dll size is way different and I am afraid that it might have unwanted side-effects ???).

Could "reshade" not do the same ?

Edited November 12, 2022 by simfan2015

[Youtch]

15 hours ago, simfan2015 said:

openvr_fsr. I tested it in some racing games.

I got more "shimmering".

But indeed FPS increased.

Did not yet test it with IL-2 nor DCS (the openvr dll size is way different and I am afraid that it might have unwanted side-effects ???).

Could "reshade" not do the same ?

Reshade is considered a mod and do not work in multiplayer.

[102nd-YU-cmirko]

On 11/12/2022 at 9:52 AM, 102nd-YU-cmirko said:

update of headset OS happened for me this morning... (and controllers which I don't use much)

We are happy to announce that PICO PUI release 5.2 is in soft launch with full release starting next week (completed by November 18th). The release notes are the following:

4.    Improved battery life and optimized the power management strategy when using while charging;

 

 

 

I forgot to charge my pico the other day after playing, turned on the headset yesterday with 9% battery and decided to see how long would it last connected to a 20W battery charger - it worked the whole evening of gameplay without issues, more than 2 and a half hours. After gameplay Pico4 was charged to 18% battery...

 

p.s. don't forget to put the battery pack in your pocket if this happens

[simfan2015]

FWIW. I am really satisfied with my PICO 4 ...

My system : RTX 3070 OC, 12700K 5Ghz OC, DDR5 OC.

After quite a bit of adapting and testing with all kinds of settings (PICO, VD High Setting - Windows 11 - IL-2 GB and DCS Settings highest optimal for VR...)

I am now getting, consistenty, FPS between 50 and 72 (Single Player, in-between skirmishes).

The DCS latest patch (2022-11-18) - High Settings- made DCS quite smooth indeed.

IL-2 GB : mostly Ultra settings.

Racing Sims - high settings : also 50-72 FPS consistently.

Maybe I wasn't expecting much from VR because of my quite mid-range graphics card, but my experience really exceeded everything I hoped for.

I can only imaging how incredible the PICO 4 (and AERO !) will/may be with an RTX 4090 !

One thing is strange though ... I am still on version PICO OS 5.1. 

Still can't seem to upgrade to PICO OS version 5.2.1 !!!??? (that should make the PICO better still) 

[=MERCS=JenkemJunkie]

Even when the FPS shows a constant 72 I'm still getting constant stutters with my Pico too no matter how low I set the graphics. I even tried plugging it in directly into my router with a usb c to ethernet adapter to eliminate wireless issues as the cause and it still stutters in everything I try it in. I've been reading it's the head tracking jittering and skipping which would make sense as my FPS in FPSVR is showing no spikes or frame drops, but the image is a jittery mess. I wouldn't recommend this headset to people wanting to play IL2 until/if they patch the tracking. I normally have strong VR legs, but knife fighting in this headset gives me a headache.

[102nd-YU-cmirko]

I play in a well lit room and have had no issues with tracking or jitter, I wonder if a VR IR light like this  could be used for better illumination ? At least you would be able to rule out the tracking issues ? 

 

my Pico (wifi, cheap C6 dedicated router) still feels butter smooth online on most servers, some of Combat box missions (with lots of moving AI) produce jittery feeling of disconnected head position if the fps drops under 50 fps or so....

[=MERCS=JenkemJunkie]

I'll give it a shot. 

[simfan2015]

I should have mentioned that I get some stuttering too... In all sims and games. Because I know VR experts here reporting this stuttering too I thought this could not be avoided and I focussed on getting the best fps and visuals (VD high setting) possible with my PC and pico 4 as it is.

Still, I am amazed it all works this well since I, a.o., do not have a dedicated wifi 6 router (getting a max of 870 Mbps, surely not more then 1 Gbps). 

With all the links in the chain (VD, compression, wifi, steamvr ...) to get this standalone hmd headset to work over WIFI it is in fact kinda strange some people reporting... they have no stuttering at all!? 

The stuttering is not always there, so I might have to turn on buffering in VD... it may simply be my wifi data transfer not being able to keep up at times with very high settings in VD and the sims... !? 

 

Edited November 20, 2022 by simfan2015

[=MERCS=JenkemJunkie]

I don't get this stutter on my G2, it shouldn't be there. The Pico is receiving a stable 72 hz image but something within the headset is messing it up. Supposedly it was something in update 5.0 that caused the stutter, and the stutter wasn't there before that update.

[=MERCS=JenkemJunkie]

23 hours ago, 102nd-YU-cmirko said:

I play in a well lit room and have had no issues with tracking or jitter, I wonder if a VR IR light like this  could be used for better illumination ? At least you would be able to rule out the tracking issues ? 

 

my Pico (wifi, cheap C6 dedicated router) still feels butter smooth online on most servers, some of Combat box missions (with lots of moving AI) produce jittery feeling of disconnected head position if the fps drops under 50 fps or so....

That didn't fix the issue, there's something very wrong with the way Pico is handling frames. Some people are more sensitive to noticing stutter so if your lucky enough to not see it consider yourself blessed. Just like with FSR some people notice no difference and just get free FPS and some people (like me) think FSR is like covering your screen in vaseline.

 

I'm also seeing a huge performance drop that I posted about here: 

I'm getting 75 FPS in the Pico in a mission that I'm holding 90 FPS in on my G2, so there appears to be a big performance hit after all with compression. Hopefully there's a fix, as I really like the sweetspot and FOV of the Pico, but the jitter and performance hit will likely be deal breakers, as I can't see dealing with a jittery/lower res/compressed picture being worth it in a seated sim. 

[simfan2015]

I can't compare with the G2 or other HMD, but I did see that occasional stutter too now that I was paying attention to it.

I really thought this was a problem with the RTX 3070 OC not being able to cope with VD high settings, but maybe there is more to it.

I sure don't get this stutter when playing 2D @4K ultra.

Maybe I could try playing wired with the PICO streamer to compare.

[=MERCS=JenkemJunkie]

The stutter is still there when I try Potato, and when I wire it in. Theres a glitch where the Pico will struggle to hold 90 or 72 and will fluctuate +/- 2-3 FPS around those numbers causing stutter. I've also seen people post about frames half rendering causing stutter or tracking issues. Hopefully future updates solve it.

[102nd-YU-cmirko]

I asked some days ago for a feature of VD which would dump the values from the "live monitor" into a csv file - it would be possible to correlate or measure encoding-decoding process if we had data from fpsvr and data from VD at the same time....

 

[raycon125]

Hello. My experiences so far ... At the start i tried to use the headset in il 2 ... tred whole bunch of setups, but i just cant get the preformance and the visuals id like to have with my pc setup (RX 5700 xt / ryzen 3600 / 18 gb of ram)... And after all that i already thought that the quality of picture cant get any better because of pico (eaven with better pc)... so i just decided to go try War Thunder sim battles ... but there i can crank up VD resolution to high which gives me quite good picture and the game still runs smooth (i only notice some like ghosting or double image when planes fly by at high speed and close range the latency is 60 ms ... yet it feels completely fine to me). I dont know if im crazy but it feels to me that anything i do il2 just looks worse (no matter the framerate or graphics setings i use). I am really pleased with the setup in WT but at the same time im sad i cannot achive same in il2. I guess till i get new hardware il just be flying in War Thunder....

Edited November 21, 2022 by raycon125

[simfan2015]

33 minutes ago, raycon125 said:

I guess till i get new hardware il just be flying in War Thunder....

Playing War Thunder is IMHO something like playing ... Project Cars 2.

In Project Cars 2 I can easily get 72 FPS with ultra settings, not so in IL-2 or DCS.

Visually speaking sims/games like Project Cars 2 (and WT???) may look great and performant ... but are far less demanding and most probably less is also happening 'under the hood' that requires high CPU usage like IL-2 and DCS ! 

[=MERCS=JenkemJunkie]

IL2 has alot of shimmer in VR and the only way to counter it is to crank up resolution and add Anti-aliasing. I found 100% resolution and x2 MSAA in the G2 is about the minimum clarity I would be happy with, and I could run that at 60 hz fine. 100% in steamVR on the G2 is equivalent to Godlike in the Pico. With the huge performance hit that compression costs theres no way I can run Godlike with x2 MSAA without reprojection aids. Also making it worse compression naturally reduces image clarity vs an image done through a display port, so I'd have to either increase the resolution past Godlike or increase MSAA or both to get an equal image to 100% + 2x MSAA in the G2, and to run that on the Pico I'd need a 6090 from the future. So I just don't think standalone headsets are ready for IL2 unless you have low standards for image quality.

[raycon125]

3 hours ago, simfan2015 said:

Playing War Thunder is IMHO something like playing ... Project Cars 2.

In Project Cars 2 I can easily get 72 FPS with ultra settings, not so in IL-2 or DCS.

Visually speaking sims/games like Project Cars 2 (and WT???) may look great and performant ... but are far less demanding and most probably less is also happening 'under the hood' that requires high CPU usage like IL-2 and DCS ! 

I know that...what does it matter... conclusion is the same

[simfan2015]

I upgraded my pico 4 to pico is 5.2.2. 

The list of changes seems the same as was reported for 5.2.1 though. May be a regional / Western European flavor I guess (UK version). 

At first sight I do not really notice true improvements except for the extra help/Assistance App. 

I don't use the passthrough that much so I will not benefit from the improvements to the color rendition. 

The upgrade was smooth and a. o. the Virtual Desktop App still worked fine as well. 

Edited November 21, 2022 by simfan2015

[102nd-YU-cmirko]

https://www.printables.com/model/316629-pico-4-increased-fov-face-gasket

 

looks like something to try if there's a 3d printer available

 

[=MERCS=JenkemJunkie]

2 hours ago, simfan2015 said:

I upgraded my pico 4 to pico is 5.2.2. 

The list of changes seems the same as was reported for 5.2.1 though. May be a regional / Western European flavor I guess (UK version). 

At first sight I do not really notice true improvements except for the extra help/Assistance App. 

I don't use the passthrough that much so I will not benefit from the improvements to the color rendition. 

The upgrade was smooth and a. o. the Virtual Desktop App still worked fine as well. 

Same, all the stutter issues and performance hits are still there. The problems are known by the developers, so all we can do is wait for patches now.

[raycon125]

I cant find any comparissons between 7600x and 5800x3d. Anyone knows or might estimate what the perfomance difference is in vr with pico?

 

[chiliwili69]

9 hours ago, raycon125 said:

7600x and 5800x3d

Nope. We know how the 5800X3D performs in IL-2 VR, but have no clue aboutthe 7600X. Hopefully someone will run the SYN_Vander bench soon.

[simfan2015]

This is unexpected ... May give Meta, pico, pimax and HTC a run for their money!?... 

 

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/dpvr-e4-announced-with-november-launch-aims-to-dominating-the-consumer-market-for-tethered-pc-vr-headsets-301687567.html

[=MERCS=JenkemJunkie]

Fresnel lenses though. Having used the Pico 4 and G2, I'd exclude anything without pancake lenses and a display port when looking at future headsets. Hopefully something with those 2 features comes out at the same price level soon.

[102nd-YU-cmirko]

depending on HDMI standard, I don't really see why DP would be preferred, if you don't mind the tether in any case..., maybe there's a spiral hdmi or DP cable to be had but I've never seen one so far...

 

 

 

 

[=MERCS=JenkemJunkie]

DP is just what headsets I've seen use as a way to connect directly to the headset without losing a lot of performance through the compression process like the Pico 4. If there's a different cable that can do it that works too. 

[firdimigdi]

10 hours ago, 102nd-YU-cmirko said:

I don't really see why DP would be preferred

 

Currently I'd say it's probably for practicality's sake as many newer GPUs tend to only have one HDMI port on them.

[simfan2015]

4 hours ago, firdimigdi said:

Currently I'd say it's probably for practicality's sake as many newer GPUs tend to only have one HDMI port on them

That is a big issue for me.

I have the PC connected thru the HDMI 2.1 port to my LG Oled.

I don't have a spare HDMI port.

We could use a DP-to-HDMI adapter I guess, but will this adapter work with the VR headset and what about sound ?

Edited November 29, 2022 by simfan2015

[firdimigdi]

57 minutes ago, simfan2015 said:

That is a big issue for me.

I have the PC connected thru the HDMI 2.1 port to my LG Oled.

I don't have a spare HDMI port.

We could use a DP-to-HDMI adapter I guess, but will this adapter work with the VR headset and what about sound ?

 

Is this about the not-yet-released DPVR headset? If so, then their own page says "Video Output: DisplayPort™ 1.3" ... so I guess: crisis averted?

[simfan2015]

I have read the manual, it reads 1.4b HDMI port (strange)...

 

http://static.vrbig.com/en/E3-4K_Manual.pdf

 

3840 x 2160 ... does not look that impressive at all and ... fresnel lenses of cours !

 

PICO 4 looks better IMHO.

[firdimigdi]

1 hour ago, simfan2015 said:

I have read the manual, it reads 1.4b HDMI port (strange)...

 

http://static.vrbig.com/en/E3-4K_Manual.pdf

 

3840 x 2160 ... does not look that impressive at all and ... fresnel lenses of cours !

 

PICO 4 looks better IMHO.

 

That's the manual of the E3, the new one is the E4.

[simfan2015]

Indeed, the E4 requires a DP 1.3 port instead. Fov of 115 or so is also great. But what will the resolution be? 

Will Virtual Desktop App be available for this vr headset etc.? 

Might be promising except that it always requires cables. 

[dburne]

1 hour ago, simfan2015 said:

Indeed, the E4 requires a DP 1.3 port instead. Fov of 115 or so is also great. But what will the resolution be? 

Will Virtual Desktop App be available for this vr headset etc.? 

Might be promising except that it always requires cables. 

 

I think with that headset that is the idea. Get back to native display port connection.

Wireless you got Pico 4, Quest 2, Quest Pro, etc. Apparently these guys see a vacancy created and an opportunity by providing native display port VR device. Not a mixed bag but a true PC-VR headset for PC-VR games. Kudos to them for trying that.

 

Now it makes zero sense to me why they would waste the time and money on putting customizable RGB on front of these headsets. Like most I am sure- I do not even power my headset on till I am ready to put it on my head and begin using it. At which point - guess what, no can see the RGB front panel lol. That is a feature I would not want to have really - but I am sure there are many that would.

[TG-55Panthercules]

56 minutes ago, dburne said:

Now it makes zero sense to me why they would waste the time and money on putting customizable RGB on front of these headsets. 

 

I guess maybe it's so all the other people in the room who are sitting around waiting for their turn to play with the VR will have something to watch?  

[Dagwoodyt]

There are several YouTube videos showing previous versions of this headset. 

[102nd-YU-cmirko]

back to topic... Virtual Desktop Beta release promises some gains in PCVR

 

 

Quote

Quest Beta version 1.25.5 - Release Notes

@everyone This is a Beta release for Quest only (Pico doesn't support public Beta channels). To switch to the BETA channel, open the Meta Quest app on your phone, go to the Virtual Desktop page, scroll down to the version number, click it and select the BETA channel from the drop-down.
You will also need to download and install the Beta Streamer on your PC from here: https://download.vrdesktop.net/files/beta/VirtualDesktop.Streamer.Setup.exe

• Significant performance improvements with VR game streaming
• Reduced micro-stutters (orange bars) with SteamVR games
• Added non-US keyboard layouts (UK, German, French, Canadian French)
• Added support for DualShock 4 controller and ability to choose the type of emulated gamepad
• Added voice warning when computer is not wired to router with ethernet
• Removed Sliced encoding option (it always uses sliced encoding now)
• Fixed latency with input when resuming a session
• Fixed framerate of VR games while not wearing headset or when disconnected
• Potential fix to Spectrum connectivity issue
• Fixed game compatibility with: X-Plane 11, Among Us VR, Vail, Ghosts of Tabor, Synth Riders (Rift store)
 

 

[simfan2015]

It seems there is quite some buyer's remorse among pico 4 customers. 

QC issues, but especially about the pico store that sells inferior apps compared to the meta store. 

I am, personally, still 100 percent satisfied with my pico 4 headset. 

Reading about issues with especially pimax headsets and the g2 wmr setup difficulties it seems to me ... the perfect vr headset is still to be invented!? 

[102nd-YU-cmirko]

On 11/21/2022 at 11:59 PM, 102nd-YU-cmirko said:

https://www.printables.com/model/316629-pico-4-increased-fov-face-gasket

 

looks like something to try if there's a 3d printer available

 

 

my print just arrived - it makes a small difference from my DIY attempt but it's a noticeable upgrade from the original gasket in fov. The print should be about 20 euro's on treatstock if somebody wants to try it....

 

[102nd-YU-cmirko]

https://imgur.com/gallery/eLcjibT

 

another DIY attempt ^^

 

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

On 11/20/2022 at 1:08 AM, =MERCS=JenkemJunkie said:

Even when the FPS shows a constant 72 I'm still getting constant stutters with my Pico too no matter how low I set the graphics. I even tried plugging it in directly into my router with a usb c to ethernet adapter to eliminate wireless issues as the cause and it still stutters in everything I try it in. I've been reading it's the head tracking jittering and skipping which would make sense as my FPS in FPSVR is showing no spikes or frame drops, but the image is a jittery mess. I wouldn't recommend this headset to people wanting to play IL2 until/if they patch the tracking. I normally have strong VR legs, but knife fighting in this headset gives me a headache.

The problem is behind the desk, in your setup itself. Need to be blunt, so you get encouraged to find the mistake with your system.

 

A hint, the first mistake is fpsVR. It has had a broken track record for a year, with microstutters caused by it, incompatiblies to Win11, and the devs falsely blaming Microsoft.

 

It was useful in the past, but for a while the most useful feature of fpsVR has been the uninstall-button.