New Pico Neo4 standalone device: Pancake lenses, 2160x2160 per eye and 429€.

[dburne]

1 hour ago, Blitzen said:

I have a wireless connect with my router which is in another room upstairs.Could this be the reason I am having such a difficult time connecting & staying connected to Steam AND explain clunky game play when I do connect ? I get some evident SDE, low  FPS , freezes & a weird wavy effect around the edge of view. I really like the new device , but getting steady ,quality gameplay in Gb and CloD is seemingly ipossible.

Also I've had no luck finding English game support to download Pico Desktop.

I might just have to return the headset and go back to Reverb G2 until the bugs are worked out.?

 

Certainly does not help, really nothing much better than a cabled internet connection.

You running wireless extenders?

 

 

 

Edited December 23, 2022 by dburne

[Blitzen]

8 minutes ago, dburne said:

 

Certainly does not help, really nothing much better than a cabled internet connection.

You running wireless extenders?

 

 

 

No - I haven't heard about these...

[simfan2015]

Bugs? What bugs? 

English game support to download pico desktop? 

Did you import a Chinese headset? 

I had a less positive view about my pico 4 at the time of release, but now, imho, it is perfect (taking its cost into account) 

Il-2 GB is incredible in VR and the pico 4 with Godlike settings in virtual desktop! 

[dburne]

2 hours ago, Blitzen said:

No - I haven't heard about these...

 

Signal Boosters. I use Asus Mesh as I have their router  but there are several types out there, for when the router is farther away from the device connecting. Put signal boosters between router and device. They are wireless and typically just plug into an electrical outlet.

Edited December 23, 2022 by dburne

[102nd-YU-cmirko]

 

[simfan2015]

https://mixed-news.com/en/somnium-vr1-high-end-pc-vr-headset-to-be-shown-at-ces-2023/

 

This new VR headset seems to crush the competition, except for maybe the Pimax Crystal ! 

 

Standalone DP as well as wifi6e! 

Edited December 24, 2022 by simfan2015

[dburne]

1 hour ago, simfan2015 said:

https://mixed-news.com/en/somnium-vr1-high-end-pc-vr-headset-to-be-shown-at-ces-2023/

 

This new VR headset seems to crush the competition, except for maybe the Pimax Crystal ! 

 

Standalone DP as well as wifi6e! 

 

Pimax Crystal does not yet exist. I remember some were comparing it heavily to the Aero several months ago. Several months ago I was happily flying with my Aero daily - Pimax Crystal? Still not there.

 

 

4 hours ago, 102nd-YU-cmirko said:

 

 

I will tell you after seeing his "review" a few weeks ago  of Varjo Motion Smoothing for the Aero he got to try out in Finland and he had  nothing but huge praise for it - then seeing how it really was once Beta was released this last update and how  horrid it is - I will not be putting a lot of stock in his words going forward.

Edited December 24, 2022 by dburne

[102nd-YU-cmirko]

most of these so called reviews are a collection of  personal impressions - I never take much stock in impressions of online persona's - sometimes their personal experience can be useful though

 

 

[FTC_ChilliBalls]

16 hours ago, dburne said:

I will tell you after seeing his "review" a few weeks ago  of Varjo Motion Smoothing for the Aero he got to try out in Finland and he had  nothing but huge praise for it - then seeing how it really was once Beta was released this last update and how  horrid it is - I will not be putting a lot of stock in his words going forward.

I mean, what is so unbelievable about an internal version which was surely optimised for a limited set of games differing from the public version that needs to work in all environments?

 

How is what he said inconsistent or unreliable? 

[dburne]

5 hours ago, So_ein_Feuerball said:

I mean, what is so unbelievable about an internal version which was surely optimised for a limited set of games differing from the public version that needs to work in all environments?

 

How is what he said inconsistent or unreliable? 

 

He said it basically was best he has ever seen. It is the absolute worse I have ever seen and my VR days started in Jan 2017.

[FTC_ChilliBalls]

8 hours ago, dburne said:

 

He said it basically was best he has ever seen. It is the absolute worse I have ever seen and my VR days started in Jan 2017.

Did you get that internal testing version he was referring to during that video and did you test it in those particular games?

 

Because otherwise this isn’t terribly apples to apples here.

[dburne]

3 hours ago, So_ein_Feuerball said:

Did you get that internal testing version he was referring to during that video and did you test it in those particular games?

 

Because otherwise this isn’t terribly apples to apples here.

 

No need. I know how bad it is. All one has to do is read the Discord to see the cluster state they released this thing in.

An example:

 

Quote

Hello folks, one more complaint  about 3.8 software motion smoothing option. Even if it is clearly in a beta state of development, I can't help being disappointed flying DCS. I sold my Reverb G2, swapping for a VARJO AERO and I opted at the same time for a high end PC hardware solution (RTX 4090, INTEL i9 13900K, 64GB RAM) to accomodate this awaited ultimate consumer VR headset. Today, I'm in doubt with my choices as the DCS flying experience is downgraded (ghosting visual effect in cockpit at 35ppd and looking outside flying low over cities). So far, I was trusting youtubers depicting the AERO as the best market solution for simmers. Hopefuly VARJO developpers are aware of the crappy result of their in house motion reprojection in the current state.

 

The vast majority of comments on the Aero Discord are very similar to this one.

Are you saying you have an Aero and do not experience this with the new Motion Smoothing?

I am a huge fan of my Aero and Varjo and really hard to believe they released it like this - even though it is considered Beta. This is a bit of a stain on them. I get a much better experience with it off.

Edited December 26, 2022 by dburne

[FTC_ChilliBalls]

On 12/26/2022 at 11:36 AM, dburne said:

The vast majority of comments on the Aero Discord are very similar to this one.

Are you saying you have an Aero and do not experience this with the new Motion Smoothing?

I am a huge fan of my Aero and Varjo and really hard to believe they released it like this - even though it is considered Beta. This is a bit of a stain on them. I get a much better experience with it off.

I'm just curious on why you think VR Flighstim Guy's initial impression on the motion smoothing to be a reason to doubt his integrity generally.

Or at least that's the impression I had of your earlier comments.

 

IMO for you to reasonably put the veracity of his initial claims into doubt,

you ought to at least compare it in the same games that he initially tested.

 

That's just basic scientific procedure if you want to have your arguments to have merit. 

[dburne]

5 hours ago, So_ein_Feuerball said:

I'm just curious on why you think VR Flighstim Guy's initial impression on the motion smoothing to be a reason to doubt his integrity generally.

Or at least that's the impression I had of your earlier comments.

 

IMO for you to reasonably put the veracity of his initial claims into doubt,

you ought to at least compare it in the same games that he initially tested.

 

That's just basic scientific procedure if you want to have your arguments to have merit. 

 

No argument to be had - I was only sharing my experience with the new Motion Reprojection on my Aero and how bad it truly is. Lots and lots of folks over on Varjo Discord experiencing the same.

This will be my final say on this as I don't feel I need to beleager the point especially in a Pico 4 thread.

 

Watch the Vid begining at 1:25.

He is talking about the best Motion Reprojection ever with the Aero. And it is in DCS which is what I run. My system is i9 9900k at 5.1 GHz all cores, RTX 3090 GPU, 32 GB 3200 Mhz CL14 DDR4 ram.  For me worst motion reprojection - ever. As I am sure I mentioned I have been one of the bigger supporters of Varjo with the Aero, so it is not a biased view. Just call them as I see them.

 

I will ask again - are you running an Aero and what has been your experience with the new Motion Reprojection? If it is good what motherboard, ram, cpu and gpu?

Edited December 27, 2022 by dburne

[Crocogator]

You can definitely get way worse motion reprojection using openXRtoolkit reprojection. The wings on aircraft bend like they are flying through event horizons.

Now that I have a pico 4 I have 2 questions. Firstly, why does it appear very smooth at 35 fps where other headsets appear somewhat similar at 60? Is it actually performing motion reprojection? How can I check?

Secondly, how can I improve the battery life? I currently have it working wirelessly on VD and it drains in about 1.5 hrs.

[102nd-YU-cmirko]

there's some information in the thread previously on chargers - in essence any charger that can provide 20W will keep Pico4 charged forever or slowly charging while in use.

 

in VD settings under streaming, make sure your Synchronous Space Warp is disabled....

[102nd-YU-cmirko]

I've finally found some time to play with toolkit and Pico4 colour presentation, with these settings in toolkit/companion application, I have a very vibrant and colourful picture in headset

 

C:\Program Files\OpenXR-Toolkit>C:\Program Files\OpenXR-Toolkit\companion.exe app OpenComposite_Il-2 -sunglasses off -post-process 1 -contrast 58 -brightness 47 -exposure 46.5 -saturation 55 -vibrance 9 -highlights 100 -shadows 0 -gain-r 62 -gain-g 62 -gain-b 62 -world-scale 112 -zoom 1 -frame-throttling 75 -reprojection-rate invalid

 

has anybody played with autohotkey and companion application so far ?

 

it would be nice if we had a basic guide on how to use openXR toolkit features directly from a joystick mapped button  (like putting on Sunglasses filter when flying over wintery sun drenched maps ?)

 

 

 

 

Edited December 30, 2022 by 102nd-YU-cmirko
spelling

[simfan2015]

CES 2023 VR headsets are, IMHO, still not really beating the PICO 4 feature-set !?

 

The PICO 4 still seems one-of-a-kind.

 

The 2 new headsets that were revealed at CES 2023 do not really WOW me ...

 

https://vr-compare.com/compare?h1=xf2i9NZPb&h2=nlolwv0lx

 

- The Shiftall MeganeX 

https://en.shiftall.net/products/meganex

https://www.roadtovr.com/panasonic-shiftall-meganex-release-price/

 

Yes it is an incredible entry for PC VR with the OLED lenses, size, weight ...

 

But : smaller FOV, no adjustable dioper (!) and not even Wireless for 2000 EURO !

 

- The  HTC Vive XR Elite

 

Yes it is Wireless and Standalone too ... 

 

BUT : still LCD, Lower resolution than PICO 4  and 1500 EURO

 

What in fact can 'beat' a PICO 4 headset (sepcs, feature set) ... I have no idea !???

 

If people only intend to use the MeganeX (no VR controllers!) for IL-2, DCS and/or Elite Dangerous then this new entry is

 an incredible deal, but for any other "made-for-VR" title this seems a no-go.

 

Does anyone agree/disagree with my "assessment" ?

Edited January 5, 2023 by simfan2015

[dburne]

Wireless means nothign to me. I do flight sims with hardware and wires attached all day long, one more for headset does not bother me at all. Flight sims are pretty much all I do in VR any more, maybe if I did other VR games more then wireless might mean more. To me it just means I am limited by the battery I am using. Plugged into PC I have no limitations. And I definitely do not want to compress and send the image through a USB cable, I want that puppy plugged directly into a GPU Display Port.

 

Also note Pico 4 may be good for you guys over there but they choose not to participate in the NA market. If I was going that route I would just get a Quest 2 and call it a day. Nothing going to come close to my Aero just yet.

[simfan2015]

Indeed dburne, the Aero still seems King to me as well, not those two new CES 2023 announced headsets. 

I do understand your reasoning, but still wireless and standalone looks to be the future of VR going by software support. 

As long as no AAA titles join PCVR(except Alyx?) it is doomed in the long run. 

Maybe even the Oculus / Meta environment as it stands now is not going mainstream yet. 

PSVR 2 and an Apple consumer HMD may change that but PCVR / SteamVR... will not come to the rescue. 

[Crocogator]

21 hours ago, dburne said:

Plugged into PC I have no limitations.

One of the things that drew me to the pico4 was the form-factor. Before I had a WMR lenovo explorer, and the long visor is something I can thankfully leave behind me. In fact, if it had the resolution, battery time, and value, I would have gone with the vive flow. The idea there, wherein you have a flight goggle size headset with decent fov and large pancake sweetspot, is really the dream to me. Alas, HTC hardly knew what it was doing with that headset's customer base.

[DBCOOPER011]

Would you consider the Pico 4 more or less an upgrade to the G2, or rather a side grade? Just don't want to be disappointed if I order one of these..

[=MERCS=JenkemJunkie]

Sidegrade. I've posted in here and the performance thread what I think of the 2. Just make sure you want what the Pico offers enough to give up what the G2 does better. Though with so many new headsets coming up, if you already have the G2, I would just wait to see what comes out, instead of sidegrading to another compromise headset.

[chiliwili69]

22 hours ago, DBCOOPER011 said:

Would you consider the Pico 4 more or less an upgrade to the G2, or rather a side grade?

 

If you are happy with the G2 lenses (the focused area is big enough for you) and with the FOV, then there is no reason to change to Pico4. 

The lenses of the Pico4 are so great, I would say that 80%of what you see from edge-to-edge is focused. And this is the big difference with the G2 for me. But I know that there are people who are happy with the lenses of the G2.

The Pico4 has other cons like the battery and router.

 

There is really no other headset on the horizon for this 2023, but Quest3 in October and Deckard only God knows when.

[DBCOOPER011]

Thanks for the info!

 

The main reason I want another HMD is due to the small sweet spot with the G2. Everything else with it is fine by me, maybe a little more FOV would be nice. Something with pancake lenses, somewhat decent FOV, and good resolution would be optimal. Even better if it had a display port connection...

[simfan2015]

@DBCOOPER011.

If you *only* intend to use it for PC VR and with IL-2 / DCS ? Elte Dangerous ... then that new "MeganeX" HMD looks to become a superb alternative choice (although it sure does not come cheap!).

Edited January 8, 2023 by simfan2015

[DBCOOPER011]

10 hours ago, simfan2015 said:

@DBCOOPER011.

If you *only* intend to use it for PC VR and with IL-2 / DCS ? Elte Dangerous ... then that new "MeganeX" HMD looks to become a superb alternative choice (although it sure does not come cheap!).

 

Yea, just using it for PC VR. A lot of HMD's coming out, but nothing definitive on when and how they will actually perform. The MeganeX does look promising though. I'm considering the Pimax Crystal, MeganeX and possibly Varjo Aero at the $1500-2000 USD range. Anything else coming worthwhile you think?

[RAAF492SQNOz_Steve]

1 hour ago, DBCOOPER011 said:

 

Yea, just using it for PC VR. A lot of HMD's coming out, but nothing definitive on when and how they will actually perform. The MeganeX does look promising though. I'm considering the Pimax Crystal, MeganeX and possibly Varjo Aero at the $1500-2000 USD range. Anything else coming worthwhile you think?

Do not know about where you are located but it may be useful to monitor Varjo Aero prices...

Here in Australia several retailers have a useful approx 15% discount on them (actually 20% cheaper compared to what I paid as an early adopter). 

Just something to keep in mind.

Edited January 9, 2023 by RAAF492SQNOz_Steve

[DBCOOPER011]

23 minutes ago, RAAF492SQNOz_Steve said:

Do not know about where you are located but it may be useful to monitor Varjo Aero prices...

Here in Australia several retailers have a useful approx 15% discount on them (actually 20% cheaper compared to what I paid as an early adopter). 

Just something to keep in mind.

 

I'm in the U.S. (PNW). Looks like there isn't any discount that I could find, unless used. Thank for the info though...

[simfan2015]

The new Somnium VR1 may become the ultimate HMD for fligt and racing sims !

In fact, the Somnium VR looks to become the only headset that I, personally and in 2023, would be willing to spend more than 1000 USD on.

[Alonzo]

On 1/9/2023 at 8:06 AM, simfan2015 said:

The new Somnium VR1 may become the ultimate HMD for fligt and racing sims !

In fact, the Somnium VR looks to become the only headset that I, personally and in 2023, would be willing to spend more than 1000 USD on.

 

A VR headset from a company that sells NFTs and virtual real estate, and has never produced hardware before? What could possibly go wrong! ?

 

I'm still waiting for the next Valve headset. The Index is hands-down the best headset I've used, except for the now lacklustre resolution.

[simfan2015]

As long as I can buy the Somnium VR for 400 usd, I don't really care what other stuff they sell ?

[chiliwili69]

2 hours ago, Alonzo said:

and has never produced hardware before?

 

Well, the guys who do the VR headset is not Somnium, the VRgineers and they have been in the VR device manufacturing for a while (XTAL...)

[doog442]

Hi. Would you good folk consider a PICO 4 a worthy upgrade over a Rift S and if so would a 128gb suffice. I only use VR for IL2 and MSFS.

 

I was considering a Reverb G2 but in the UK I can buy a PICO 4 for £379  . The G2 is £622.  

 

My system is i5 9600K oc to 4.8, 6900xt Formula (factory OC to 6950xt level). I plan on upgrading the CPU in due course. 

 

cheers  

[102nd-YU-cmirko]

for best Pico4 visual quality you also have to buy VD streaming software  and a standalone router (more info on recommended routers on VD discord) at least, if you want to play longer sessions you will also need a battery charger or a USB-C port which can provide 20W of charging power... ~100Euro

 

I have never tried RiftS, but I would consider Pico4 a very worthy upgrade over G2 (in my case, I sold G2 after a few days of trying Pico4) - I have a comparable amd card and you can find some results in another thread 

 

128 v 256gb version is only important for standalone games loaded into the headset - there is no performance difference when PCVR ^^

 

Edited January 11, 2023 by 102nd-YU-cmirko
edit: pico4 ram details

[dburne]

3 hours ago, doog442 said:

Hi. Would you good folk consider a PICO 4 a worthy upgrade over a Rift S and if so would a 128gb suffice. I only use VR for IL2 and MSFS.

 

I was considering a Reverb G2 but in the UK I can buy a PICO 4 for £379  . The G2 is £622.  

 

My system is i5 9600K oc to 4.8, 6900xt Formula (factory OC to 6950xt level). I plan on upgrading the CPU in due course. 

 

cheers  

 

Reverb G2 - seriously. Keep an eye out for sales.

[doog442]

57 minutes ago, dburne said:

 

Reverb G2 - seriously. Keep an eye out for sales.

 

Cheers, not much happening in the UK in that regard . Version 1 is being sold cheaper mind but still a fair way off the Pico. Just wondering which way to go, I don't mind working on the visuals and a few extras as per the post further up if the image quality is in the same ball park as the G2

[=MERCS=JenkemJunkie]

It's not in the same ballpark. Compression adds some blur and jaggedness, and the G2 has nicer colors. The G2 was just on sale for half off, so I'd wait for a sale like that to come around again. I would only recommend the Pico 4 for people who play standing games too, and would be willing to sacrifice their IL2 experience for the other games. 

[102nd-YU-cmirko]

I would say that the colours are really up to the user to set them up as they feel (if the user is using openXR toolkit it's s sort of simple and there are multiple examples including upper in thread) 

 

I can also say that I have not seen any compression artifacts when the game runs at or near the refresh rate, either wired or wireless. (this will also depend on the quality of network connection between Pico4 and PC which runs the game) 

 

cool video about "play spaces" with Pico4

 

 

Edited January 12, 2023 by 102nd-YU-cmirko

[chiliwili69]

I have tested deeply both (G2 and Pico4) and I would definetely go for Pico4. Better FOV and better clarity edge-to-edge. The ideal thing would be a Pico4 with DP cable.

 

But I opted for keeping the Index over the G2 and Pico4. Just my taste.