New Pico Neo4 standalone device: Pancake lenses, 2160x2160 per eye and 429€.

[Youtch]

1 hour ago, Customizer171 said:

 

To me, it made a big difference when I installed the inserts from VrOptician. Before I was very disappointed by the small sweetspot, but now, that is not an issue anymore ?

But VR optician is for eye correction only? Or you can have it even if you don t need correction?

[Schmehl]

Wow, just read an article that says the HP Reverb G2 is on sale on the HP web site for $349.00!  I just checked and it says, "Early Holiday Flash Sale, Save $250 instantly".  I did a general search and also found it at Walmart for $349.00 with free shipping.  I am still using a Rift CV1, so this will be a nice upgrade.

Edited October 11, 2022 by Schmehl

[dburne]

19 minutes ago, Schmehl said:

Wow, just read an article that says the HP Reverb G2 is on sale on the HP web site for $349.00!  I just checked and it says, "Early Holiday Flash Sale, Save $250 instantly".  I did a general search and also found it at Walmart for $349.00 with free shipping.  I am still using a Rift CV1, so this will be a nice upgrade.

 

Yes that is one helluva good headset for that price!

[simfan2015]

In my country the only locally available hp reverb g2 goes for 999 euro, a business webshop. In the Netherlands the cheapest option is 649 euro. 

Europeans always draw the shortest straw. 

Otoh the Pico 4 seems to have fixed prices of 429 and 499 euro (256 GB). 

That is 1 reason China is taking Europe by storm. 

US tech is too expensive over here. 

Can the VR experts please help me with following :

If you want to play il-2 in VR as well as in 4K ultra 2D, how can you keep both settings? Do you save the settings files and restore those depending on pancake or VS sessions? 

Thanks. 

Can the VR experts please help me with following :

If you want to play il-2 in VR as well as in 4K ultra 2D, how can you keep both settings? Do you save the settings files and restore those depending on pancake or VS sessions? 

Thanks. 

Edited October 11, 2022 by simfan2015

[Bando]

10 hours ago, simfan2015 said:

In my country the only locally available hp reverb g2 goes for 999 euro, a business webshop. In the Netherlands the cheapest option is 649 euro. 

Europeans always draw the shortest straw. 

Otoh the Pico 4 seems to have fixed prices of 429 and 499 euro (256 GB). 

That is 1 reason China is taking Europe by storm. 

US tech is too expensive over here. 

Can the VR experts please help me with following :

If you want to play il-2 in VR as well as in 4K ultra 2D, how can you keep both settings? Do you save the settings files and restore those depending on pancake or VS sessions? 

Thanks. 

Can the VR experts please help me with following :

If you want to play il-2 in VR as well as in 4K ultra 2D, how can you keep both settings? Do you save the settings files and restore those depending on pancake or VS sessions? 

Thanks. 

I purchased my G2 for 650 euro in Holland (the Netherlands) some 6 weeks ago.
About the settings: Once I started VR, I realized I won't need the settings for the monitor any longer. I will not go back to flying on a monitor.
VR is awesome!

[Drum]

But the game and settings you use are the same, if you want to load into 2D you load into 2d and use the monitor normally, but if you want to play in VR you load the game into 3D and use the VR headset and not the monitor.  It's that simple, no changes to your settings required.

[chiliwili69]

1 hour ago, Bando said:

Once I started VR, I realized I won't need the settings for the monitor any longer. I will not go back to flying on a monitor.

Same to me, once I started to fly in VR (in another flight sim) I left sims on monitor (including IL-2).

 

 

But when IL-2 VR was implemented and blessed Jason and the team, and now IL-2 is my only flight sim.

[simfan2015]

'It's that simple, no changes to your settings required."

That is good to know !

But that means we need the fastest PC there is, if our 2D  IL-2, DCS ... settings are on ULTRA, EPIC ... ?

Are the 2D settings in-game of IL-2, DCS ... not used and are then only the settings in the VR headset (and Virtual Desktop) used ????

 

[dburne]

31 minutes ago, simfan2015 said:

'It's that simple, no changes to your settings required."

That is good to know !

But that means we need the fastest PC there is, if our 2D  IL-2, DCS ... settings are on ULTRA, EPIC ... ?

Are the 2D settings in-game of IL-2, DCS ... not used and are then only the settings in the VR headset (and Virtual Desktop) used ????

 

 

In game settings are used whether in 2d or in VR. Only one set of settings.

DCS does have profiles you can save for different settings. I myself never bother with it as I always fly in VR, never in 2d.

Edited October 12, 2022 by dburne

[Customizer171]

On 10/11/2022 at 2:03 PM, Youtch said:

But VR optician is for eye correction only? Or you can have it even if you don t need correction?

 

Not necessarily, but I think most people are using them for correction.

But some also use them for protecting the lenses of the headset.

VR Optician sell inserts without correction, I even think they are cheaper than the corrected ones ?

 

[Youtch]

1 hour ago, Customizer171 said:

VR Optician sell inserts without correction, I even think they are cheaper than the corrected ones

Do the improve sweet spot as well in this case?

[chiliwili69]

this is a video comparin Virtual Desktop vs Pico Streaming Assistant.

It seems VD provide options with higher bitrate.

Also, at minute 9 he mentions that the default resolution should be 3052x3052 and not 2160x2160. This change completelly what I thought about the pancake lenses!!

So it seems we will need a powerfull GPU.

 

 

[simfan2015]

I am planning to buy either the G2 or pico 4. Hoping for the pre-announcement of the pico 4 Link on October 25 in Lisbon. 

I will for the time being cancel my pre-order because I am yet to see a pc vr steam demo over the Usb-c cable. 

If that proves even possible with the pico 4 and with at least 200mbps or more. 

The software is reportedly too buggy to even test anything like that with only the pico software. Not really encouraging as people here have proven a. O. The hp reverb g2 has great software features and support, just like the quest 2 these days would enjoy!? 

I don't like to be an Alfa tester because I am a VR newbie! 

 

[chiliwili69]

BTW, today I recieved an email saying that they will start shipping by 15th October. Let´s see if this new device is valid for IL-2.

8 minutes ago, simfan2015 said:

pico 4 Link on October 25 in Lisbon. 

 

You refer to the Pico 4 Pro, it would be like Pico 4 but just with eye/face tracking and more expensive. I don´t think it will bring DP connection. But I would pay to be wrong.

[simfan2015]

There will be an advanced consumer version a few months later. 

If the pico 4 does not work fine with il-2 then this vr headset is DOA! 

[dburne]

6 hours ago, Youtch said:

Do the improve sweet spot as well in this case?

 

I would not think so.

[TG-55Panthercules]

On 10/11/2022 at 9:49 AM, Schmehl said:

Wow, just read an article that says the HP Reverb G2 is on sale on the HP web site for $349.00!  I just checked and it says, "Early Holiday Flash Sale, Save $250 instantly".  I did a general search and also found it at Walmart for $349.00 with free shipping.  I am still using a Rift CV1, so this will be a nice upgrade.

 

On 10/11/2022 at 10:09 AM, dburne said:

 

Yes that is one helluva good headset for that price!

 

Decided to pull the trigger on a G2 at that price - thanks for the info.  Hopefully that will be an improvement from my original Rift CV1.

 

At the risk of hijacking this thread, how far will I need to upgrade my current i7-7700K/GTX 1080Ti rig to be able to get good results with the G2 in IL-2 GB?

[Drum]

You'll want to pick up at least a 3080 GPU, too.  From what I've been reading though, in the next few months used 3080/3090 cards will be flooding the market at great prices if you're willing to trust a used reseller, or pretty good deals on a new 30xx cards.

Edited October 13, 2022 by Drum

[Customizer171]

11 hours ago, Youtch said:

Do the improve sweet spot as well in this case?

 

I actually don't know that.

All I know is that my sweetspot is much bigger after I got my correction inserts installed.

But I would not be surprised if you get the same effect with regular inserts.

You have to find someone who has experience in this to get a correct answer.

[simfan2015]

Virtual Desktop for PICO 4 is now available in the PICO VR Assistent Android App !

I created a PICO Account @https://sso.picoxr.com/  and logged in.

I then downloaded the PICO VR Assistent Android App on my smartphone.

The Virtual Desktop App for PICO 4 was just released.

The Virtual Desktop App for PICO 4 can be bought for 19.99 USD.

That was the 'Good News'.

However I am now quite sure PC connection over USB-C is NOT going to be available

 (surely not with the PICO's own software on the VR headset).

According to YouTube previewers it is not even planned to ever become available.

If so,  then my guess is that what we see in the recorded VR headset menu videos may be meant for

 the "PICO 3 Link" only !???

That may also be why PICO will later offer a WiFi 6 dongle ... why would they otherwise do this if ... USB-C would work just as well !??? 

I may still make the 'leap of Faith' anyway and buy the PICO 4,

 but would first appreciate some true expert reviews of the PICO 4 production softwares and Virtual Desktop release version of 2022-10-13.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 13, 2022 by simfan2015

[dburne]

3 minutes ago, simfan2015 said:

Virtual Desktop for PICO 4 is now available in the PICO VR Assistent Android App !

I created a PICO Account @https://sso.picoxr.com/  and logged in.

I then downloaded the PICO VR Assistent Android App on my smartphone.

The Virtual Desktop App for PICO 4 was just released.

The Virtual Desktop App for PICO 4 can be bought for 19.99 USD.

That was the 'Good News'.

However I am now quite sure PC connection over USB-C is NOT going to be available

 (surely not with the PICO's own software on the VR headset).

According to YouTube previewers it is not even planned to ever become available.

If so,  then my guess is that what we see in the recorded VR headset menu videos may be meant for

 the "PICO 3 Link" only !???

That may also be why PICO will later offer a WiFi 6 dongle ... why would they otherwise do this if ... USB-C would work just as well !??? 

I may still make the 'leap of Faith' anyway and buy the PICO 4,

 but would first appreciate some true expert reviews of the PICO 4 production softwares and Virtual Desktop release version of 2022-10-13.

 

 

They are not out in the wild yet though are they? 

[simfan2015]

Dunno dburne.

 

But we now have the 'production-type' version of the Virtual Desktop App.

That App is, unfortunately, only about Wireless streaming for the PICO 4 and will, as far as I read, never support thetered connection to a PC (not for the All-In-One headsets, but does aloow USB-c connection to Desktop for a.o. Reverb of course).

It seems to me the Pico 4 looks awful if compared to the PICO 3 Link (Yotube video is in German, but also sub-titled) :

 

"Native Displayport vs Streaming | comparison | Pico 3 Link / Pico 4" :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvLBrVkzO7w&ab_channel=IkumaGames

 

"Virtual Desktop" now also available for PICO 4 for wireless streaming

https://uploadvr.com/virtual-desktop-pico-4/

 

IMHO PICO XR is making a big mistake by not introducing the PICO 4 in the US ... there is almost no coverage whatsoever on youtube.

I did not yet find one single real in-depth PC VR Steam test, worth watching, that is also to-the-point.

 and can highlight the PICO's technical implementation and its advantages and drawbacks. 

A lot of comments like "ohhhh ... nice ...".

The software seems to be in terrible shape.

Buying this PICO 4 VR headset now is in fact asking for trouble (not that this ever stopped me ...).

 

 

Edited October 13, 2022 by simfan2015

[chiliwili69]

On 10/13/2022 at 2:53 AM, TG-55Panthercules said:

Hopefully that will be an improvement from my original Rift CV1.

The G2 for that price is absolutely a good option to pick, you will see a nice improvement in resolution, exactly 260% more pixels.

For the G2 you will need a 3080, or 3080Ti, or 3090.  Either second hand or new you will have plenty of options.

For CPU 5600X or 5800X3D is a very good option. Better but more expensive is the i9-12900K. Or going directly to the 7600X or i9-13900K

[dburne]

 

[simfan2015]

Great video from Sebastian.

Indeed, proves DP connected vr headsets are still unchallenged! 

The pico 4 Link and quest 3 may change this... But that is still up in the Air! 

I cancelled my pre-order and will wait for the PICO 4 Link, the 'small' HTC headset or most probably the Meta Quest 3.

What I did learn is that, IMHO, great software support, impressive game catalog, superb Wireless + Wired connectivity as well as pancake lenses should be on my shortlist for 2022 and beyond.

It is coming.

If the now cheap (US only!) HP Reverb G2, a 2+ year old headset still proves far better than this PICO 4 then this means something.  

Buying today would, again IMHO and my reasoning, mean assured buyer's remorce ... a few months from now.

 

Edited October 14, 2022 by simfan2015

[BOO]

Being unexpectedly flush this payday I nearly pulled the trigger on a 2nd hand G2V2 but.........I just couldnt. I still think VR is an edge case scenario for me with a 3080 and 5600X. An edge that would frustrate the crap out of me.  That and the stories about the G2s lead fragility (and both its price and the lack of availability).

 

I'll wait until RTX5000 now I think but the 3 take aways from that video of MRTVs:

 

Damn MSFS looks good

Being elderly and myopic the "sweetspot" thing of the G2 is actually what I see all the time

Kinda wish I bought the G2 now LOL!

[simfan2015]

If I were living in the US, the HP Reverb G2 ...@ 349 USD would be a no-brainer these days.

simply incredible for still one-of-the-best VR headsets out there (according to the people here).

At 700 USD (here in Europe) ... not so clear I guess.

BOO, I still have that RTX 3070 OC (and i7 12700K / DDR 5).

That means I would not get great FPS in IL-2 VR whereas today in pancake I get 120 FPS 4K Ultra settings most of the time.

VTOL VR though would probably be fine though, even with that now 'lowly' 3070 OC (bought in the COVID-Crypto era).

But the 4080 is right around the corner and then there will be no reason whatsoever to not make that VR jump !

 

Edited October 14, 2022 by simfan2015

[BOO]

If I were living in the US Id be out looking for Jason.....

[TG-55Panthercules]

15 hours ago, chiliwili69 said:

The G2 for that price is absolutely a good option to pick, you will see a nice improvement in resolution, exactly 260% more pixels.

For the G2 you will need a 3080, or 3080Ti, or 3090.  Either second hand or new you will have plenty of options.

For CPU 5600X or 5800X3D is a very good option. Better but more expensive is the i9-12900K. Or going directly to the 7600X or i9-13900K

 

Looking hard at a Skytech Prism II Gaming PC Desktop INTEL Core i9 12900K 3.2 GHz, RTX 3090, 1TB NVME Gen4 SSD, 32G DDR5 RGB, 1000W GOLD PSU at New Egg for $2,999.00 (on sale down from $4699 there, and still at $4499 on Amazon) - I usually get the parts and build my own, but at that price I'm thinking maybe I'll just buy one ready-made.  Any reason that wouldn't make sense?

 

[chiliwili69]

20 hours ago, simfan2015 said:

will wait for the PICO 4 Link, the 'small' HTC headset or most probably the Meta Quest 3.

 

What is the PICO 4 Link? id there any official annoucement from Pico? Are you referring to Pico 4 Pro?

 

The Meta Quest 3 latest news is that will be released by end of 2023 after the Connect 2023 and price range will be 300-500$:  Source here.

 

It seems that the demmand of the Pico 4 was big, let´s see when it will arrive:

 

 

In any case, my expectations are not too high. It is like an ideal device but with no display port. I will then will depend on the software compression coders and XR2 decompresion and all Virtual Desktop/Streaming Assitant software. Something I really don´t like to learn, I was sooo happy with devices with DP cable.

So, I will see if all this extra layer will compensate the simplicity of the Index setup (just DP cable and SteamVR).

[chiliwili69]

8 hours ago, TG-55Panthercules said:

Skytech Prism II Gaming PC Desktop INTEL Core i9 12900K 3.2 GHz, RTX 3090, 1TB NVME Gen4 SSD, 32G DDR5 RGB, 1000W GOLD PSU

 

In general I would not recommend pre-built PC from known brands like Dell, HP, Lenovo or even MSI since they are usually 1 year late and use Mobos and poor ventilation systems to cut prices.

But in this case I think they just take parts from known brands (or maybe not) and mount them. They don´t provide details of the brands.

In terms of specs this PC will be perfect for IL-2 VR and you have a future path for the 13th gen of CPU since they will use same socket.

Also a 360 liquid AIO cooler is good to allow your CPU to mantain a good frequency.

Since you have 2 year warranty (i think), for a 5-6 year life, if something breaks after 2 years you can always replace that part.

For that price it is not a bad pack!

 

But you can take a look of similar setups for similar budgets, for example:

https://pcpartpicker.com/b/3tJfrH

 

And here you can choose your own memory speeds and latencies and pick your favourite brand.

[dburne]

4 hours ago, chiliwili69 said:

 

In general I would not recommend pre-built PC from known brands like Dell, HP, Lenovo or even MSI since they are usually 1 year late and use Mobos and poor ventilation systems to cut prices.

But in this case I think they just take parts from known brands (or maybe not) and mount them. They don´t provide details of the brands.

In terms of specs this PC will be perfect for IL-2 VR and you have a future path for the 13th gen of CPU since they will use same socket.

Also a 360 liquid AIO cooler is good to allow your CPU to mantain a good frequency.

Since you have 2 year warranty (i think), for a 5-6 year life, if something breaks after 2 years you can always replace that part.

For that price it is not a bad pack!

 

But you can take a look of similar setups for similar budgets, for example:

https://pcpartpicker.com/b/3tJfrH

 

And here you can choose your own memory speeds and latencies and pick your favourite brand.

 

I have been building my own rigs for almost 30 years now. Many have been built and I have always loved doing it. Even did a small handful for friends/family. Last build was in Jan 2019 and that likely is going to be the last one I ever do myself. Between my eyesight and health I am just not up to the task any more - aging can be hell - so next one I will gladly be ordering online with a company that will build to my specs for me. Probably around early part of 2024 or maybe even end of 2023. Will see how the year goes for me. 

[chiliwili69]

It seems that Pico 4 Neo can be also ordered from US:

 

 

[dburne]

LOL - totally at your own risk and he does not even know if US can create an account.

Maybe someone will try it and report back... Good luck.

Edited October 15, 2022 by dburne

[chiliwili69]

1 hour ago, dburne said:

so next one I will gladly be ordering online with a company that will build to my specs for me

 

Yes, this is a better option as well, you define the specs or even the components and then they build for you. Then you have more freedom to choose for example the RAM memory or the brand of the Mobo, etc.

There are several online shops that they do for you like PCBuilder or MicroCenter, but PCPartPicker has not that service.

In Spain (for PCs for work) we use PCcomponentes and they work fast and well.

Edited October 15, 2022 by chiliwili69

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

On 10/14/2022 at 3:58 PM, BOO said:

Being unexpectedly flush this payday I nearly pulled the trigger on a 2nd hand G2V2 but.........I just couldnt. I still think VR is an edge case scenario for me with a 3080 and 5600X. An edge that would frustrate the crap out of me.  That and the stories about the G2s lead fragility (and both its price and the lack of availability).

 

I'll wait until RTX5000 now I think but the 3 take aways from that video of MRTVs:

 

Damn MSFS looks good

Being elderly and myopic the "sweetspot" thing of the G2 is actually what I see all the time

Kinda wish I bought the G2 now LOL!

We don't know the result yet. MRTV is not someone who tests with the precision and set-up that we do, because he's serving a big general market.

 

All the things he said regarding OpenXR, performance, and even compression he saw are not true for our use-case. OpenXR isn't used by IL-2 - you can include it and get additional features like post processing of colors, but that's all. The upscalers (NIS & AMD's) can be included differently as well. Performance isn't affected. Compression - he uses a Huawei Honor 3, which is a notoriously bad router. It's worse than the low-bugdet TP Link Archer C6. Good routers start with Asus RT AX55 and end with Asus RT AX88U. So, to summarize - we don't know yet. It's still not the time yet, community members here must receive the headsets first. Then we can tell how it is in IL-2 and possibly DCS.

 

Unless you are big on playing MSFS2020, that is  

Edited October 15, 2022 by SCG_Fenris_Wolf

[chiliwili69]

I have been learning a number of things about the usage of Pico 4 Neo for PCVR games. Just sharing them to put them in common:

 

- There are three ways to connect the Pico 4:

   1.- Virtual Desktop (VD) wireless: Max bitrate 150 Mbps, with H.265 (HEVC) codec

   2.- Pico Streaming Assistant (PSA) wireless: Max bit rate 100Mbps, with H.265 (HEVC) codec

   3.- Pico Streaming Assistant wired USB-C: Max bit rate 100Mbps, with H.265 (HEVC) codec

 

- The PSA, at today date, works worse than VD. 

 

- The max bitrate for Pico4 is determined by the XR2 chip, and its limit is 150Mbps.

 

- The creator of VD (ggodin) say that VD will not offer wired USB-C option since a good Wifi at 5GHz is well above the limit of the XR2 chip (150Mbps)

 

- Using VD you don´t need to install any Pico software in the PC. But you need to install the VD Streamer app in the PC side.

 

- The Pico4 has two modes 72Hz and 90Hz. Ggodin say that the 72Hz mode, for the same bitrate, will provide better image quality than the 90Hz mode.

 

- VD don´t almost load the CPU of the PC (so IL-2 performance should not be affected by CPU).

 

- The encoding is done by the GPU. There is an NVENC chip in the Nvidia GPUs to encode. The 20XX and 30XX has the same chip specs for Encoding but new 40XX cards incorporate a new codec support AV1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nvidia_NVENC

 

More on the reddit forum for VD for Pico4: https://www.reddit.com/r/virtualreality/comments/y2xeo3/comment/isjhgld/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

 

 

23 hours ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

Compression - he uses a Huawei Honor 3, which is a notoriously bad router. It's worse than the low-bugdet TP Link Archer C6. Good routers start with Asus RT AX55 and end with Asus RT AX88U

 

How do you know what is a good router and a bad router?  As far as it support the 5GHz band (and you just disconnect other devices) and you get around 1000-1500 Mbps you should be fine?

What other router features we should look at?

 

These are the routers recommended by ggodin:

 

Asus AX1800S (69$)

Netgear WAX202 (49$)

TP-Link C6/A6 (38-45$)

[simfan2015]

Thanks a lot chiliwilly69!!! 

This is valuable information for anyone considering the pico 4. 

I hope we will soon learn how il-2 looks and performs with this pico 4 vr headset! 

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

Thanks chili, that's a lot of useful information. I'll note it down, didn't know about the 150Mbps limit, interesting. Was it said by him directly? The Q2 goes up to 200Mbps via Airlink... And is also the XR2 chipset.

 

My recommendations of Asus RT AX55 and 88/86U come from ggodin's Discord and his official stickies.

 

Where did you get the information on the routers, which one is correct?

P.S. I found the thread on Reddit. Cool that he's responding. It's interesting to find out new things, the cabled VR stuff was getting old.

 

Let's get the best possible wireless connectivity (or rather, the best possible one, with lowest costs in case they cap out on XR2 anyway). 

Edited October 16, 2022 by SCG_Fenris_Wolf

[simfan2015]

My PICO-4 256 GB will be delivered tomorrow, October 18 !

I will buy Virtual Desktop for PICO 4 in the PICO Store.

I had cancelled my pre-order mainly because of an imminent Quest 3 and supposed lack of USB-C cable link support.

But availability of the Quest 3 will shift to 2023 and PICO 4 USB-C cable support seems available thru "PICO link" afyter all. 

I still have a lot to learn though.

That unfamiliarity with VR is one of the reasons I did not opt for the HP Reverb G2

(which requires setting and using WMR, always cables and a wall socket). 

I bought the PICO 4 especially for IL-2 GB and IL-2 CoD VR.

I hope I can always count on you experts here to assist me to get IL-2 up and running with the PICO 4 ?

Will report as soon as possible after delivery and setup.

Thank you all for what I have learned so far.

 

Edited October 17, 2022 by simfan2015