Upgrading PC- GPU and CPU question

[TheWarsimmer]

Currently have a i7-7700k (1151 LGA socket, OCd to 4.8ghz) and 1080 GPU. Somehow I'm managing about about 60fps in VR with a G2 running at 70% FSR, but it's time for an upgrade. Rather than building a new PC, I'd rather stick with swapping out the GPU and CPU. If it's feasible, is there another 1151 LGA socket CPU that will be worth it? I was looking for something that is close to the equivalent of the R5 5600X. As far as the GPU, would a 3070 10gb suffice? Or should I go 3080? Also, I have a EVGA 850W gold certified PSU, and am wondering if that's enough power.

 

Open to all suggestions and input.

Edited September 18, 2022 by TheWarsimmer
A few spec updates

[[CPT]Crunch]

Be wary of swapping out CPU's, did that recently and ended up having to get a new board.  No obvious or visible damage, wasn't my first rodeo installing a CPU, but it was unresponsive to either CPU once the original was removed, completely dead board, never posted again.  11900K's can be found under $300, and a solid board just over 100 mostly the 490Z's, they will work just fine if cost is an issue.

[chiliwili69]

4 hours ago, TheWarsimmer said:

1151 LGA socket, OCd to 4.8ghz

 

With that socket you only can go to 9th gen of intel (9900KS), but I think it is not worth.

 

The biggest performance increase in IL-2 was from 11th gen to 12th gen. The 11th gen was quite below the 5600X and the 12th gen was well above. Take a look of SYNVander table.

 

If you are thinking to upgrade the CPU I think it could be wise just to wait a couple of months, so the AMD Zen4 chips and the Intel 13th gen are tested in IL-2 and all we take a better choice for future CPU upgrades.

 

Regarding GPU upgrade, I would definetly would go for a 3080 given that you have a G2. Specially now that prices are really  where they should be.

[dburne]

24 minutes ago, chiliwili69 said:

 

With that socket you only can go to 9th gen of intel (9900KS), but I think it is not worth.

 

The biggest performance increase in IL-2 was from 11th gen to 12th gen. The 11th gen was quite below the 5600X and the 12th gen was well above. Take a look of SYNVander table.

 

If you are thinking to upgrade the CPU I think it could be wise just to wait a couple of months, so the AMD Zen4 chips and the Intel 13th gen are tested in IL-2 and all we take a better choice for future CPU upgrades.

 

Regarding GPU upgrade, I would definetly would go for a 3080 given that you have a G2. Specially now that prices are really  where they should be.

 

You mean now that 40xx is about to be released and 30xx will be previous gen. In this case I would definitely wait and see what 40xx brings to the table, especially when considering VR...

Edited September 18, 2022 by dburne

[TheWarsimmer]

After some thought and concerns about replacing the cpu, I'm probably just going to get a new board. Probably won't want to spend the money on the 4xxx series and will go 3080 12gb once I can find it for 600$ or so. I was under the impression that the 5600x was the best bang for the buck cpu wise, I checked SYNVander's table a month or so ago and it looked like it did well. I'd consider something different if the price was similar with better performance.

[Solmyr]

On 9/18/2022 at 9:06 PM, TheWarsimmer said:

After some thought and concerns about replacing the cpu, I'm probably just going to get a new board. Probably won't want to spend the money on the 4xxx series and will go 3080 12gb once I can find it for 600$ or so. I was under the impression that the 5600x was the best bang for the buck cpu wise, I checked SYNVander's table a month or so ago and it looked like it did well. I'd consider something different if the price was similar with better performance.

 

Hello,

Let me throw an input even if I'm unfortunately kept away from Il2 since a (very) long time, mainly because I was on the same rails hardware speaking.

 

I was very pleased with my i7 7700K, never OC'ed, but my motherboard came to an end 1 year ago. I went for a 5600X which indeed is very good CPU for sure, I don't know if it's a little better or worse when it comes to Il-2, but overall it's a very solid pick. Get a good (quiet) cooler as its temperature range is a bit high, but safe.

 

I'd say yes to the MB question : it wouldn't be worth the saving ! My advice is to pick the chipest or one of the chipest amongst those which come with what you need, forget all about durability, extensive OCs, nightclub and all those bullsh***... ? Mobo's prices are mainly about marketing.

 

And 850W gold is more than enough ! Here the quality building matters, but if yours is gold, then it's better than good. I'm on a 550W Silver with a 2060S and it's enough.

 

My 2 cents.

Have fun.

Bye.

Edited September 22, 2022 by Solmyr

[dawud]

I just went from a 9600k to a 12600k and my frames improved by a lot witout changing gpu.
To my surprise my frames went from about 39-60fps to 60-89fps.(according to fpsVR, latency also went down a few milisec)
Also on a G2 with about 80 to 100% SS in openVR , results vary with Nis/Fsr openXR
This is on an old 1080ti.
I overclocked the CPU tho´and got 32gb of fast ram and a custom watercooling-loop to cool this hotheaded cpu
so yeah IL-2 really bennefits from a fast 1st CPU Coreclock.
Not as much Multithreading.

Edited September 19, 2022 by dawud

[354thFG_Drewm3i-VR]

Go for 12th gen intel or wait for Zen 4. You will need a new board for either.

On 9/18/2022 at 3:06 PM, TheWarsimmer said:

After some thought and concerns about replacing the cpu, I'm probably just going to get a new board. Probably won't want to spend the money on the 4xxx series and will go 3080 12gb once I can find it for 600$ or so. I was under the impression that the 5600x was the best bang for the buck cpu wise, I checked SYNVander's table a month or so ago and it looked like it did well. I'd consider something different if the price was similar with better performance.

It does fine (it's what I have), but I wouldn't get it because the next gen AMD cpus will use a new socket.

[TheWarsimmer]

9 hours ago, drewm3i-VR said:

Go for 12th gen intel or wait for Zen 4. You will need a new board for either.

It does fine (it's what I have), but I wouldn't get it because the next gen AMD cpus will use a new socket.

 

The next gen CPUs will be a lot more pricey, though, I'm assuming.

 

EDIT: Checked the prices- 7600x will be $299. Tough to tell if it's worth it if you can nab a 5600x for $150. Motherboard prices have to factor in as well.

Edited September 26, 2022 by TheWarsimmer

[simfan2015]

All I can attest to is that before I upgraded to the latest tech end of 2021 (Intel 12700k and RTX3070) I never realize what il-2 could play like. Now I am also hoping to get into VR and also playing DCS I guess only an rtx 4090 will be appropriate. Indeed this is the time to save some money on the previous gen of hardware, but at least I would sorely regret it a few months from now. For il-2 pancake an rtx4000 is overkill, but to get into the vr story...? 

[Voyager]

Your first big limiter in VR is the 1080 GPU. I had a 1080 Ti for a long time, and it's got limits at VR resolutions. 

 

The CPU is ok, especially if you've got it up to 4.8Ghz, but could be better, but in VR, you're going to be very GPU limited right now, even with a newer CPU. 

 

If you haven't upgraded yet, and can stand holding off for a while, I would wait to see what the 4090 and RDNA3 cards provide. RDNA2 has issue with Il-2. I suspect it has to do with the Infinity Cache. The 40 series has also added an infinity cache like structure, so initial tests of Il-2 with 40 series cards should finally answer if that's the real problem. 

 

If Il-2 does not play well with Lovelace, then we should expect 3080 TI cards to drop in price, especially as RDNA3, RTX 40 and the used mining cards finally hit the market, so win-win all around. 

 

If you are getting 60fps at 70% resolution, a 3080Ti alone should get you 60fps at full resolution. That's roughly the jump I got going from a 1080 Ti to a 3080 TI in VR. 

[354thFG_Drewm3i-VR]

On 9/26/2022 at 3:55 AM, TheWarsimmer said:

 

The next gen CPUs will be a lot more pricey, though, I'm assuming.

 

EDIT: Checked the prices- 7600x will be $299. Tough to tell if it's worth it if you can nab a 5600x for $150. Motherboard prices have to factor in as well.

A 5600X is pretty good, but again, you just won't be able to upgrade again (except for the 5800X3D) in the future without buying a new board. I'd probably go for a 12th gen i5 if I was buying now.

 

Edit: Zen 4 is also now out so go for the 7600X if you want AMD.

Edited September 27, 2022 by drewm3i-VR

[Voyager]

21 hours ago, TheWarsimmer said:

 

The next gen CPUs will be a lot more pricey, though, I'm assuming.

 

EDIT: Checked the prices- 7600x will be $299. Tough to tell if it's worth it if you can nab a 5600x for $150. Motherboard prices have to factor in as well.

MB prices are currently marked up about 20% for early adopters. Zen 4 is also running at about a $50 early adopter premium. 

 

January, after the Christmas buying rush and Raptor Lake launches are when we should expect prices to stabilize. 

[TheWarsimmer]

Decided on the 5600x for sure.

 

Now I'm looking into video cards, and with my budget either considering a 3080 12gb or 6900xt 16gb. I know that il2 runs vr better with nvidea over amd, but also know that the "other sim" runs spectacularly with all that vram in the 6900xt. Would a 6900xt 16gb run il-2 acceptably? If so, I'd probably go with that because of how well it does in the other sim. 

[chiliwili69]

6 hours ago, TheWarsimmer said:

I know that il2 runs vr better with nvidea over amd

 

The measured performance of the 6900XT is between 3080 and 3090 acording to public benchmarks: https://www.videocardbenchmark.net/high_end_gpus.html

 

But if you want to play IL-2 in VR don´t go to an AMD. The performance difference in VR is quite drastic. You only need to take a look of the SYN_VANDER table.

For same CPUs the 6900XT is giving about 30-40% less fps than the 3080 or 3090.

 

For example a 5800X with RAM at 3800MhZ and latencies 16-16-16-36 coupled with a 6900XT reported 63 fps in VRTest1.

 

The VRTest1 is rendering only 9.5 million pixels, it is designed to load the CPU and no the GPU (for top GPUs like 3080 or similar).

The AMDs cards has a big issue constraining the CPU performance in monitor and also VR.

Most of other cards (3080, 3080ti, 3090) and using 5600X or 5800X are getting around 85fps in the VRTest1. So it is a big difference.

This is only for IL-2, I have no idea about DCS.

[dburne]

3090 GPU's even the Ti's can be had for a very reasonable price right now with the 40xx card launch upon us. They are wanting to clear those all out.

Edited October 8, 2022 by dburne

[TheWarsimmer]

Ok chili, you convinced me. I'm going to try and nab a 3080 12gb, or better, for around 700$. Maybe black Friday or the fantastech sale over at newegg in a couple days. They've certainly came down, as dburne says

[dburne]

Yeah I have been tempted to grab a 3090 Ti while I can at the much better pricing now, but undoubtedly even at that I would likely not see much gain at all over my 3090 I have now. Think I will just hold off for the 50xx series cards.

[simfan2015]

I envy you guys in the US and Canada! 

Prices here in Europa are still insane! 

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

3 hours ago, simfan2015 said:

I envy you guys in the US and Canada! 

Prices here in Europa are still insane! 

Unfortunately they are bound to stay that way and probably get even worse...

 

We have had 21% inflation of the Euro against the USD since 2021. The 10% they tout on news is against domestic products. The prices are hence correct for articles coming in from abroad.

 

To keep it very simple: They are based on the prognosis of today's price + end of product lifetime price divided by 2. As inflation has devalued our currency during the last year drastically and is bound to continue to become stronger as our markets are already filled with capital due to postponic the pandemic's effects as well as further gifts getting handed out (at the forefront, Germany), you can actually calculate that GPU prices in Europe will double by 2025. Based on the price of 1949€ for the 4090 today (t), to get the 6090 you'll be starting at roughly 3100€ assuming a 10% inflation over 3 years with an optimistic lifecycle of 2 years per generation added to it (thus setting t+1 at 5 years) and the anticipating pricing structure Nvidia usually follows (similar to Apple with their iPhone 14 in Europe, and others), considering all other things like supply chains and production costs remain equal.

 

That's very oversimplified. Don't poke me on it. If you read this in 2025 and they're less in Europe, feel free to celebrate with me.?

Edited October 9, 2022 by SCG_Fenris_Wolf

[simfan2015]

SGC, indeed I am afraid you are right about all this! 

I am thinking of buying an rtx 4080 16 GB. I now still have an RTX3070 OC and for flightsims VR that is a... Dud!?

Even that 3070 costed me 1200 euro last year! 

Edited October 9, 2022 by simfan2015

[BOO]

The price of admission to the high end is not only high but doesn’t get you that long on the ride. 

 

I can’t ever remember a time that it wasn’t so.  

Driving in the middle lane however is still, thankfully, a decently enjoyable experience and one that tends to make the journey last a little longer as well. 

[TheWarsimmer]

2 hours ago, BOO said:

The price of admission to the high end is not only high but doesn’t get you that long on the ride. 

 

I can’t ever remember a time that it wasn’t so.  

Driving in the middle lane however is still, thankfully, a decently enjoyable experience and one that tends to make the journey last a little longer as well. 

 

Very true. Bought a 1080 and i7-7700k in 2017. Here we are almost 5 years later and it's time for an upgrade, but they have done well. I like to push it as long as possible... makes the next upgrade feel oh so good?

[dburne]

33 minutes ago, TheWarsimmer said:

 

Very true. Bought a 1080 and i7-7700k in 2017. Here we are almost 5 years later and it's time for an upgrade, but they have done well. I like to push it as long as possible... makes the next upgrade feel oh so good?

 

Yeah same here - going to try and get at least another year or maybe two out of my current setup - i9 9900k at 5.1 Ghz and GPU currently 3090.

[chiliwili69]

12 hours ago, simfan2015 said:

Prices here in Europa are still insane!

 

I think they are quite below than one year ago:

 

EVGA 3080: 706€

https://www.pccomponentes.com/evga-geforce-rtx-3080-xc3-gaming-10gb-gddr6x?offer=466b18c7-70f0-4e92-a004-7c277976b207

 

Asus 3090Ti: 1249€

https://www.mindfactory.de/product_info.php/24GB-MSI-GeForce-RTX-3090-Ti-Black-TRIO-DDR6-V509-023R-retail_1452806.html

 

 

There is a webpage (in german!) which search accross online shop across Germany, UK, Poland and Austria, and most of them ship within EU:

 

https://geizhals.eu/

https://geizhals.eu/msi-geforce-rtx-3090-ti-black-trio-24g-602-v509-z46-a2731986.html?hloc=at&hloc=de&hloc=eu&hloc=pl&hloc=uk

 

 

[simfan2015]

Chiliwilly, those prices are indeed far better than in december 2021 when I paid 1200 euro for an Asus 3070 OC! 

[dburne]

Holy crap 4090 FE cards boosting to around 2700-2800 MHz.

I may have to rethink my holding off the 40xx series.

The big question will be how much improvement one will see actually in VR.

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

On 10/9/2022 at 1:24 PM, simfan2015 said:

SGC, indeed I am afraid you are right about all this! 

I am thinking of buying an rtx 4080 16 GB. I now still have an RTX3070 OC and for flightsims VR that is a... Dud!?

Even that 3070 costed me 1200 euro last year! 

Do not forfeit hope. Be patient.

 

The new headsets featuring pancake lenses (Pico 4 Neo, Quest Pro, Deckard, etc.) are not needing the harsh oversampling to create a fitting pixel density in the center of the lens. For example, on the Reverb G2 you'd want to run the headset at 3100x3100 in order to achieve a proper pixel density matching the center of the lens, for the rest is heat as energy wasted in the warping of the distortion profile.

 

If you can run the Pico 4 Neo or Quest Pro (Cambria) on 2200x2200 and achieve the same pixel density as the Reverb G2 on 3100x3100 or the Aero on even higher pixels, with clear lenses, no need to run NIS or any other oversampler - then you got a winner on your hands that'll be contend with your RTX 3070 way more readily than anything else on the market know.

 

Technological advancement isn't always just brute force. Take electrical cars for example. The torque is insane, the maintenance is ridiculously low, the long term viability of the new accumulators is what - 1.6 Million kilometres before hitting 90% capacity. It's real advancement. Life remains interesting 

Edited October 11, 2022 by SCG_Fenris_Wolf

[simfan2015]

Thank you SCG and Dburne for that detailed explanation. 

[TheWarsimmer]

Appreciate all the help in this thread. Have a 5600x on the way with a B550m Steel Legend board. I found a MSI Ventus 3080 12gb for 750$ I want to bite on, but it's LHR. Will this effect performance in VR? Everything I have read says no, and I believe it would fit the board, but would like to hear your all's expertise before going with it.

Edited October 12, 2022 by TheWarsimmer

[TG-55Panthercules]

On 10/9/2022 at 11:39 AM, TheWarsimmer said:

 

Very true. Bought a 1080 and i7-7700k in 2017. Here we are almost 5 years later and it's time for an upgrade, but they have done well. I like to push it as long as possible... makes the next upgrade feel oh so good?

 

I'm still running the 1080Ti and I7-7700K build I put together in about that same time frame, and have been thinking it was probably time for an upgrade - will be interested in seeing what you wind up with and how you like it.

[chiliwili69]

9 hours ago, TheWarsimmer said:

Have a 5600x on the way with a B550m Steel Legend board. I found a MSI Ventus 3080 12gb for 750$ I want to bite on, but it's LHR.

 

I went to the 5600X as soon as we checked how good was Zen3 for IL-2. It is a solid CPU for IL-2 VR. In my case I have a small advantage of running the Index at 80Hz, so it helps. But for 90Hz it is also a good CPU. You only need to be sure to adjust certain settings (Mirrors off, shadows medium, distant building off) and at High Preset you will be most of the time at 90fps (if GPU is not a constraint).

 

Now, regarding GPU I went from a 1080Ti to a 3080 (second hand for 1000€ two year ago). The increase of performance is quite drastic. In the dense scenario of SYN_VAnder I get 82 fps over 90Hz for the VRtest2 (it is 19.5 Million pixels, equivalent to G2 at 100%SS). So, I think 750$ for that card is a good price.

 

[TheWarsimmer]

Have it all set up with a 3080 12gb and 5600. I'll run the benchmark as soon as I optimize everything. Still need to set an xmp on bios etc. Right out of the box with pretty high settings and 90% scaling in openxr toolkit I'm getting between 70-90 fps and that's with the higher settings. It feels extremely fluid and looks great.