Wings snapping off P-51s

[Knarley-Bob]

Pulling out of a dive, didn't black out, but wings are snapping off. Might want to take a look? Yup, both versions, P-51s, Normandy & BOBP.

Edited September 9, 2022 by Knarley-Bob

[CountZero]

51s have lowest structural G limit out of bobp or bon fighters so you will lose wings easyer as you go abow 10g, and having G pants your pilot will not even felt that on short interval. So in game it works how its programed, you go abow 10G that is set for it structural limit you lose wings. 51 is just weekest build it seams so its noticable, tempest have unreal elevators so you can easy pull 12.5G+ so it loses wings at that point and so on...

 

Question is does this work like that in real world, my gues is airplane dont just fel apart when he go to 10.5G if limit is said to be 10G.

 

Just look how for example they have max dive speed of airplanes 100-150kmh more then what is said in documents, because airplanes dont just fell apart at 750kmh if doc say limit is 740kmh, they alowed to buffer zone there, but in structural G limits it seams there is no buffer zone.

[69th_Mobile_BBQ]

1 hour ago, Knarley-Bob said:

Pulling out of a dive, didn't black out, but wings are snapping off. Might want to take a look? Yup, both versions, P-51s, Normandy & BOBP.

 

Single player, multiplayer or both?   In my experience, this seems much more pronounced in multiplayer when pulling G well within "comfortable" limits but at high speed. 

 

I've also noticed that in spite of 'comfortable' levels of G, pulling a very high angle-of-attack (AoA) for even a second or two can also break wings.  That is to say, pulling up so drastically that the bottom of the wing basically becomes a wall against the air as the belly of the plane is basically the thing momentarily going straight forward into the flight path and air.  Realistically, any plane can break wings or bend the airframe even at lower speeds if the AoA suddenly 'spiked' too high.

 

 

I recall an interview (from the 1970s) with Chuck Yeager talking about his test pilot experiences.  I'm pretty sure you can find it on YouTube.  In that video, he does state that almost ALL American fighter planes were only stress rated at 7.3G - (in spite of what the in-game specs might say).   That's not to say that in real world application, there weren't instances of P-51s being put through much higher stress and surviving. It's just that it was expected that 7.3G (and beyond) was the most likely point at which structural failure would happen.

 

 

Edited September 9, 2022 by 69th_Mobile_BBQ

[CountZero]

25 minutes ago, 69th_Mobile_BBQ said:

 

Single player, multiplayer or both?   In my experience, this seems much more pronounced in multiplayer when pulling G well within "comfortable" limits but at high speed. 

 

I've also noticed that in spite of 'comfortable' levels of G, pulling a very high angle-of-attack (AoA) for even a second or two can also break wings.  That is to say, pulling up so drastically that the bottom of the wing basically becomes a wall against the air as the belly of the plane is basically the thing momentarily going straight forward into the flight path and air.  Realistically, any plane can break wings or bend the airframe even at lower speeds if the AoA suddenly 'spiked' too high.

 

 

I recall an interview (from the 1970s) with Chuck Yeager talking about his test pilot experiences.  I'm pretty sure you can find it on YouTube.  In that video, he does state that almost ALL American fighter planes were only stress rated at 7.3G - (in spite of what the in-game specs might say).   That's not to say that in real world application, there weren't instances of P-51s being put through much higher stress and surviving. It's just that it was expected that 7.3G (and beyond) was the most likely point at which structural failure would happen.

 

 

7.3G, if that is how it work in game you would be losing wings all the time on any airplane, in game its easy to pull 8G+ you can see for your self by turning hud, and with spike MP i bet its even more pronounced thats why i check things in SP and look at G limit in HUD. And for airplanes it works like its set in specs, if you go abow spec limit wings brake, even if your abow limit for short time.

[-=PHX=-SuperEtendard]

1 hour ago, CountZero said:

Question is does this work like that in real world, my gues is airplane dont just fel apart when he go to 10.5G if limit is said to be 10G.

 

P-51 real world G limit was 5G for full fuel and extra fuel tanks (10800 lb/4900 kg) and 8G for minimum fuel (8000lb / 3600 Kg) safety margin is already taken into account.

Edited September 9, 2022 by -=PHX=-SuperEtendard

[CountZero]

1 hour ago, -=PHX=-SuperEtendard said:

P-51 real world G limit was 5G for full fuel and extra fuel tanks (10800 lb/4900 kg) and 8G for minimum fuel (8000lb / 3600 Kg) safety margin is already taken into account.

and when you x1.5 to get max, thats 12G not 10G we get in game ( also 10% or 100% fuel dont mather in game from what i could see)

Edited September 10, 2022 by CountZero

[69th_Mobile_BBQ]

10 hours ago, CountZero said:

7.3G, if that is how it work in game you would be losing wings all the time on any airplane, in game its easy to pull 8G+ you can see for your self by turning hud, and with spike MP i bet its even more pronounced thats why i check things in SP and look at G limit in HUD. And for airplanes it works like its set in specs, if you go abow spec limit wings brake, even if your abow limit for short time.

 

[CountZero]

1 hour ago, 69th_Mobile_BBQ said:

 

I dont doubt that he said it and thats how it works in real life, im just saying that in game we dont have it like that and if we do we would be losing wings left and right on any airplane as in game we pull 6-7G+ on almost every manover, and are alowed to do so, just look no more then tempest and its ability to pull so hard on stick at high speeds that you go abow 12.5G in no time, if it was so easy to do so in real airplane would be grounded.

[Props]

I've been flying the P-51, in both C and D models, almost exclusively for 6 months now, mostly online, and have never lost a wing maneuvering under any load. Even with 1000 pounders on the hard points and getting into hard diving turns to avoid dying, or under blackout G loads. I've lost a wing or 2 by hitting a tree on strafing runs (oops my bad), or getting rammed by an AI (usually a friendly) and on rare occasions from enemy fire. I've found it to be very resilient so I have to wonder what folks are doing to rip wings off. Are you trying to pullout of a dive at over 500mph? Yanking the stick around in hard high speed turns? I've found the Pony to be most responsive with careful steady control inputs and attention to power control during heavy maneuvering. There might be a problem with the DM, but I suspect it has more to do with way someone is handling the aircraft.

[69th_Mobile_BBQ]

9 hours ago, CountZero said:

I dont doubt that he said it and thats how it works in real life, im just saying that in game we dont have it like that and if we do we would be losing wings left and right on any airplane as in game we pull 6-7G+ on almost every manover, and are alowed to do so, just look no more then tempest and its ability to pull so hard on stick at high speeds that you go abow 12.5G in no time, if it was so easy to do so in real airplane would be grounded.

 

Well, maybe if the part where IL-2 advertises itself as a "sim" and not an arcade game was better enforced by 777, we'd have less players Fokker Dr.109-ing and Sopwith Mustang-ing around in sustained maneuvers that are unrealistic for planes of this size and weight. 

[Knarley-Bob]

Have never heard of the wings snapping off P-51s before, one would think it would have been mentioned somewhere along the line, but if that's the case, one will have to fly accordingly.

 

KB

[-=PHX=-SuperEtendard]

On 9/9/2022 at 9:55 PM, CountZero said:

and when you x1.5 to get max, thats 12G not 10G we get in game ( also 10% or 100% fuel dont mather in game from what i could see)

 

From what I could quickly test I found around 11G failure point with minimum fuel and around 10G breaking point with full fuel.