Input Profiles and Updating Il-2 to a 128 Button limit

[Luftschiff]

With the new input system, an old topic resurfaced in my mind that I wanted to try to get a better answer to. Now, I'm an old hand in game development and generally know very well how things are made and can gauge the difficulty and associated costs, thus I rarely make requests. For hardware integration however, I am clueless and can thus permit myself to ask the developers:

What would be the cost and how feasible would it be to look into making IL-2 support more modern controllers, joysticks, throttles by adding support for 128 inputs per device?

The feature is present in most competitors and given how important our hardware is to us flight simmers it does feel like something worth supporting, but I'm fully open to the possibility that it's a lot more complex than I think, or would require rewriting the API in painful ways that, while not difficult, would be prohibitively time consuming. 

 

Controllers with more inputs are becoming increasingly common (and of course this thread is based largely on recently acquiring and having trouble with an orion 2) and the trend is likely to continue. Much like updating DX versions, or supporting newer VR headsets, I would very much appreciate if newer hardware controllers could be supported natively. This question has been raised a few times over the years, as early as 2016, but I feel like the number of use cases has gone up considerably recently.

Edited September 2, 2022 by Luftschiff

[Jaws2002]

Fully agree with you. I also recently got a new throttle and I'm in the middle of debating how to tackle the problem. The easiest solution would be to make a straight forward profile with 128 buttons, like the one i did for DCS, and use it for everything, but Il2 will only see half the buttons.

 So i have to make different profile for Il-2, that splits  my buttons in multiple controllers. That's not a big deal, but then I also have to change the TrackIR hotkeys every time i switch games.

Most of the newer controllers have a ton of buttons. Even mid price, very popular joysticks, like the VKB Gladiator come with many buttons now.

We could really use an update.

 

Thx.

Edited September 2, 2022 by Jaws2002

[Luftschiff]

Precisely, it's a big hassle and a bit buggy. Right now I have to change into 4x32 button mode and back every time I change game, which also forces me to rebind trackIR hotkeys as you say. Axis controls that also cause button presses furthermore do not seem to work in IL2. Totally understand that this isn't exactly a priority for many people, but support for 128 buttons has been requested for 6 years now, and by now it's really the standard, so I'd appreciate hearing more about the feasibility.

[amadeusdemarzi]

Another bump on this! Would love to see support for 128 buttons, I have a bunch of Virpil control panels, and while physically they might not have more than 64 buttons, with shifts states involved they go quite a bit higher, and I like to group mappings with some similarities across planes and across flight sims. 

[Biggus]

This is one of the most frustrating things for me about this series.

 

Every other sim I use supports 128 inputs per device.  Two and three position toggle switches work correctly in those sims, too.  Switching into a 4x32 button mode on my Orion seems to create a new device ID or changes the order of the devices and results in me having to rebind every throttle control.  If I run the throttle unit in it's normal 128 input mode, very few of the base momentary switches function after being bound.  Gear up/down, for example.  Bind it to a throttle base momentary switch and nothing happens, it will not function.  Bind it to a base toggle switch and nothing happens.  Bind to a momentary switch on the throttle handle and it works.  AI autopilot modes behave similarly.  I am sure there are others.

 

Binding things in Il-2 BoX is a very frustrating experience with modern hardware.  Please consider spending some valuable dev time on this part of the user experience.  In my group of primarily DCS players, all of us own at least one BoX title but only half of us play it regularly.  The rest cite annoyances with binding things as a major reason to play other things.

[Lemmi]

Please realize!

[Lemmi]

come on! - for christmas - ok ?

[Capt_Hook]

No updates at all?  Come on, folks.  Warthog throttle finally died after 12 years, and upgraded (I thought) to new hardware, but find out the premiere WWII sim has 10 year old input limitations.  Why??

 

At least tell us if it's not feasible.  

[69th_Nomna]

Same here. Just got an Orion 2 Hotas and was excited to have every axis on my hardware and not the keyboard, only to realize my $600 purchase doesn't work because the game developers haven't bothered to update the input limitations. This works in every other sim. Please fix this!!!

[Lemmi]

Would be nice to have an explanation by devs why this takes so long. Even the old Il-2 1946 with the work of Daidalos Team has increaesed the number of useable buttons from 32 to 128 in 2019 with Patch 4.14!

 

My VKB Setup is growing and shifting buttons is a great opportunity to get the maximum out of so called HOTAS (Hand On Throttle And Stick - not on keyboard!).

 

And with all the other controllers available and coming in the future we have to have the support for this.

 

So long.

 

Merry Christmas.

 

 

 

 

[Hoss]

TARGET GUI & SCRIPT..... The TMWH throttle thumb Hat switch "Up" is TIR center for my set-up.... it's DX27 all day long no matter if you are using GUI or SCRIPT. I bind Dx 27 in TIR GUI and never have to change any set-up for any game. F1 is also the same in most all flight sims...... "Cockpit view" works just as well as DX27. I'm sure most casual users can figure out how to overcome a minor technical issue like centering their TIR view. 

 

Merry Christmas & Happy New Year.......

 

 

[BladeMeister]

I am going to bump this also as I have a VKB GFIII and a Virpil Cm3 and KA50 and all 3 are capable of 128 button profiles. IL2 needs to upgrade to 128 buttons as even CLOD/DWT upgraded to 128 last year. Come on 1C, it is time to make this upgrade.

 

S!Blade<><?

[Lemmi]

Once again. Bump for 2023.

[Contour]

Bumping this again. I would really like to see support for this implemented.

[choctaw111]

I just got a Virpil setup and it's awesome but I would like to get the most out of them by actually being able to use the buttons and functions

[choctaw111]

On 12/24/2022 at 4:49 AM, Lemmi said:

Would be nice to have an explanation by devs why this takes so long. Even the old Il-2 1946 with the work of Daidalos Team has increaesed the number of useable buttons from 32 to 128 in 2019 with Patch 4.14!

 

My VKB Setup is growing and shifting buttons is a great opportunity to get the maximum out of so called HOTAS (Hand On Throttle And Stick - not on keyboard!).

 

And with all the other controllers available and coming in the future we have to have the support for this.

 

So long.

 

Merry Christmas.

 

On 12/24/2022 at 4:49 AM, Lemmi said:

I read your post here and had to update it since I was still at 4.12.

After updating to 4.15.1 I did a quick test and the extra buttons on my Virpil Throttle are still not registering.  I'm not sure what's going on or where to ask for tech help about that.  My controller is just fine, but the sim still seems to be at the 32 button limit 

 

 

 

 

[Lemmi]

Hi choctaw111,

 

take a look at this tool from VKB - it works for others too: https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0551/4739/7238/files/VKB_BtnTester.zip?v=1669736547

 

 

does your VIRPIL shows pressed buttons beyond 32 ?

 

Maybe we should switch to the il-2 1946 forum !?

 

 

[choctaw111]

10 hours ago, Lemmi said:

Hi choctaw111,

 

take a look at this tool from VKB - it works for others too: https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0551/4739/7238/files/VKB_BtnTester.zip?v=1669736547

 

 

does your VIRPIL shows pressed buttons beyond 32 ?

 

Maybe we should switch to the il-2 1946 forum !?

 

 

Yeah, sorry about that!  I had so many windows open I didn't realize which forum I was in.  I'll check this out.  Thanks!

[Lemmi]

there should be a tool from VIRPIL which is called "VPC Joystick Tester" on your PC.

Have a look. It's even better because it shows the possibilities of each device.

 

 

 

Edited March 19, 2023 by Lemmi

[choctaw111]

10 hours ago, Lemmi said:

there should be a tool from VIRPIL which is called "VPC Joystick Tester" on your PC.

Have a look. It's even better because it shows the possibilities of each device.

 

 

 

Thanks.  Yes, I've used this and shows the buttons being pushed but doesn't allow to map buttons to the keyboard.  Having a 32 button limit in the sim is a real bummer

[Lemmi]

16 hours ago, choctaw111 said:

Thanks.  Yes, I've used this and shows the buttons being pushed but doesn't allow to map buttons to the keyboard.  Having a 32 button limit in the sim is a real bummer

 

You have to map the button inside the SIM! So it looks lik this:

 

[choctaw111]

On 3/20/2023 at 9:12 AM, Lemmi said:

 

You have to map the button inside the SIM! So it looks lik this:

 

Yes but the sim only recognizes 32 buttons per controller

[LukeFF]

1 hour ago, choctaw111 said:

Yes but the sim only recognizes 32 buttons per controller

 

You can map way more than 32 buttons from a controller to the game. I've done that myself. ?

[Zephyrus52246]

I'm considering adding a throttle, either the virpil or the winwing orion 2.  Does this thread mean none of the buttons/controls work, or only up to 32 total for the throttle and joystick?  

 

Jeff

[Hoss]

Nuckin Futs!.......

[LukeFF]

1 hour ago, Zephyrus52246 said:

I'm considering adding a throttle, either the virpil or the winwing orion 2.  Does this thread mean none of the buttons/controls work, or only up to 32 total for the throttle and joystick?  

 

Jeff

 

No, I've owned and used controllers that have well in excess of 32 buttons, and they have worked without any issues.

[Hoss]

With TARGET SCRIPT I can only use the 32 buttons Total in the game, but with TARGET GUI, I map keystrokes to the buttons and switches on the TMWH and there are way over 32 commands on my Stick, Throttle, BlackHog, and GVL Trim Box... I use the 128DX Script in DCS but GUI in IL2. So it will be much simpler to learn how to use your HOTAS software than to wait on the Dev's to fix something there isn't a problem with. If and when we ever learn what the next iteration of IL2 is going to be, we can start campaigning for 128DX (not keystrokes) capable controller inputs.

 

Cheers

Hoss

[Lemmi]

8 hours ago, Hoss said:

If and when we ever learn what the next iteration of IL2 is going to be, we can start campaigning for 128DX (not keystrokes) capable controller inputs.

 

It's the only SIM (besides Il-2 1946, Il-2 CloD Blitz/Tobruk, DCS World) i use that cannot handle it. I will not wait for the "next iteration of il-2".

I had so much problems with logitech profiler (for my old g940 - i dropped) in il-2 BoX, that i will never use a "profiler software" anymore BUT direct mapping.

[Lemmi]

Please don't forget it besides the new content.

[161SqnShrike_AU]

On 3/25/2023 at 3:04 AM, LukeFF said:

 

You can map way more than 32 buttons from a controller to the game. I've done that myself. ?

Can you please explain how to do this.

 

Thanks

 

[LukeFF]

2 hours ago, 161SqnShrike_AU said:

Can you please explain how to do this.

 

Thanks

 

All you have to do is map the buttons inside the game to whatever commands you want to use.

[453=Whittle]

On 7/1/2023 at 1:52 AM, LukeFF said:

 

All you have to do is map the buttons inside the game to whatever commands you want to use.

 

... And then find out that you can't map any past around the first ~60, as is the case for my virpil CM2 throttle. I needed to re-map the last ~50 to a vjoy device for Il-2 to detect them.

[Lemmi]

Exactly. Il-2 BoX starts counting the buttons with "0". So button 0-63 is mapable. Everything above NOT.

 

The one and only solution is: Support for 128 buttons per usb-device! Everything else (virtual devices - which is also possible with vkb software, vjoy, gremlin...) isn't an option because it makes it more difficult.

 

It would be very nice when the devs would give us a statement. Is it planned, is it "impossible" ore something to hope for...

 

I know, only content will pay the bills but as a supporter i buy every product even if it's not on my focus. Just to support.

[LukeFF]

I'll ask and see if there are any near-term plans to change this.

[LukeFF]

This is the latest word from our developers: this limitation is a combination of the DirectInput API being used and resource optimization. Our lead programmer has his hands full with a lot of other things right now, so there is no guarantee it can be looked at any time soon.

[SCG_motoadve]

When I moved from IL2 to DCS , I added 3 more controllers, for a total of 9.

Now if I try IL2 , my Virpil joystick does not get recognized, and has become a pain.

Honestly almost ready to unistall IL2, I am not willing to remove controllers every time I want to play, was hoping and waiting for a fix from the developers.

[Hoss]

I use TARGET GUI in IL2 so I can emulate keystrokes, instead of using dx commands. If I load Sedenion's 128 complete dx hack SCRIPT, IL2 doesn't work. And I only have my TMWH HOTAS, BlackHog button box, and a K51 trim box, and Crosswinds. But with that, I get 96 dx button presses. So it cripples us folks that want to use SCRIPT in IL2.

 

[Lemmi]

15 hours ago, SCG_motoadve said:

When I moved from IL2 to DCS , I added 3 more controllers, for a total of 9.

Now if I try IL2 , my Virpil joystick does not get recognized, and has become a pain.

Honestly almost ready to unistall IL2, I am not willing to remove controllers every time I want to play, was hoping and waiting for a fix from the developers.

 

Try this:

[Lemmi]

21 hours ago, LukeFF said:

This is the latest word from our developers: this limitation is a combination of the DirectInput API being used and resource optimization. Our lead programmer has his hands full with a lot of other things right now, so there is no guarantee it can be looked at any time soon.

At least an answer even if its not satisfying. Thanks for that.

Hard to believe it's the API because it's used by Il-2 1946 and CloD. The second part sounds more realistic. Too much to do for too less resources.

[Hoss]

I've got a TMWH, throttle, stick, and Crosswinds pedals plugged into my Motherboard, and the BlackHog button box and the K51 trim box are plugged into my powered hub. Now do those switches just remove power or do they remove the device completely from the circuit?

 

Quote

Our lead programmer has his hands full with a lot of other things right now, so there is no guarantee it can be looked at any time soon.

LOL, I hope the lead's not the only programmer left. Especially if there is to be another sim after this one. And when do we hear something about that one?... this one is in rigor mortise...    

Edited August 15, 2023 by Hoss