Allied AI Orders

[Gus-Gus]

Is there a way to order allied AI in your flight to attack a specific kind of airplane?  I'd like to be able to tell the flight to attack escorts first in order to survive. 

[Eisenfaustus]

No - unfortunatly not.

[I./JG52_Woutwocampe]

There is only one order available unfortunately for friendly AI aircrafts.

 

-Do anything

 

But it works actually! So there's that

 

 

[IckyATLAS]

On 8/23/2022 at 11:13 PM, I./JG52_Woutwocampe said:

There is only one order available unfortunately for friendly AI aircrafts.

 

-Do anything

 

But it works actually! So there's that

 

 

So true. This is one of the chapters of the IL2 sim that need an important review and update, with more possibilities for the flight leader to give commands.

Important because it contributes grandly to the immersivity factor at least for the solo players which are the vast majority.

 

[Corralandy120000]

1 hour ago, IckyATLAS said:

So true. This is one of the chapters of the IL2 sim that need an important review and update, with more possibilities for the flight leader to give commands.

Important because it contributes grandly to the immersivity factor at least for the solo players which are the vast majority.

 

Unfortunately the devs don't seem to care much about it. I hope they will take at look at it really soon.

[Harlequin]

I agree that ai commands etc need quite the overhaul.  Would be useful to allow you to split your flight into elements, to allow you to bracket, split up etc.

I am starting to doubt whether this will ever happen though. Normandy will be the 5th release so can't be high on their list sadly. :(

[IckyATLAS]

3 hours ago, cosg_Paul said:

I agree that ai commands etc need quite the overhaul.  Would be useful to allow you to split your flight into elements, to allow you to bracket, split up etc.

I am starting to doubt whether this will ever happen though. Normandy will be the 5th release so can't be high on their list sadly.

Do not despair. Things finally get done, but it may take years. I am sure it is in their lists and its all a matter of reshuffling priorities.

As long as new campaigns are announced there is hope. If it is not done in BON it may come with BON improvements during the development of the next BOX. Crossing fingers.

[JG27_Steini]

12 hours ago, IckyATLAS said:

Do not despair. Things finally get done, but it may take years. I am sure it is in their lists and its all a matter of reshuffling priorities.

As long as new campaigns are announced there is hope. If it is not done in BON it may come with BON improvements during the development of the next BOX. Crossing fingers.

 

10 years have been passed. One must be patient.

[IckyATLAS]

5 hours ago, JG27_Steini said:

 

10 years have been passed. One must be patient.

Patience is one of the greatest qualities in life. Things always come to those who can wait. Unfortunately the time frame is unknown and things may come too late.

For all this to become true you need to have a very very very long life span.?

Edited September 6, 2022 by IckyATLAS

[I./JG52_Woutwocampe]

I dont think the devs dont care about this.

 

I think they just dont have a solution.

 

We must remember that the game was built around the ROF engine. In flight communications were not a thing when that engine was designed. 

 

Unfortunately, a major overhaul of communications looks like a colossal mandate given the origine of the engine. 

 

My 2 cents, I hope they prove me wrong.

[AEthelraedUnraed]

14 minutes ago, I./JG52_Woutwocampe said:

I dont think the devs dont care about this.

 

I think they just dont have a solution.

 

We must remember that the game was built around the ROF engine. In flight communications were not a thing when that engine was designed. 

 

Unfortunately, a major overhaul of communications looks like a colossal mandate given the origine of the engine. 

 

My 2 cents, I hope they prove me wrong.

I agree with your assessment that a major communications overhaul would be a colossal undertaking, but I don't think it's necessarily related to the RoF engine. The huge improvements to the AI we've seen in the last couple of years make me think that it's at least possible to improve the AI commands - especially as many of the commands are already possible with mission scripting. E.g. "Attack only bombers" could be done with a high-priority Attack MCU target-linked to the bomber groups, "Help, there's an enemy on my tail" would be accomplished by a medium-priority Attack MCU target-linked to the aircraft attacking the player. Of course, there's no way to add MCUs on the fly, let alone figure out which of the enemies is attacking the player, but at least it shows that much of the necessary AI infrastructure is already there

 

[Harlequin]

Hi.  I don't think it's an engine issue as tank crew has quite a different, and more elaborate command system. I would say too, at what point does one say that one can't use the "it was developed from rise of flight" excuse anymore.    Also worth bearing in mind that the AI often runs into "problems" while following current commands.  I think it's just further down the list in terms of what they want to do, given their resources.

[I./JG52_Woutwocampe]

Hope you guys are alright. If the engine itself isnt the problem, then something MUST be done. I am telling it again, the current inflight communication system doesnt come close to games that are 20 years old or more.

 

Its revolting actually.

[JG27_Steini]

7 hours ago, AEthelraedUnraed said:

I agree with your assessment that a major communications overhaul would be a colossal undertaking, but I don't think it's necessarily related to the RoF engine. The huge improvements to the AI we've seen in the last couple of years make me think that it's at least possible to improve the AI commands - especially as many of the commands are already possible with mission scripting. E.g. "Attack only bombers" could be done with a high-priority Attack MCU target-linked to the bomber groups, "Help, there's an enemy on my tail" would be accomplished by a medium-priority Attack MCU target-linked to the aircraft attacking the player. Of course, there's no way to add MCUs on the fly, let alone figure out which of the enemies is attacking the player, but at least it shows that much of the necessary AI infrastructure is already there

 

 

Connecting the AI with the priorities was in my point of view a wrong starting point. The AI must have a basic plan for the mission, thats correct. But as a leader it has to follow to commands or just follow the leader. It would be much easier to implement a system where the AI does nothing but to execute commands. As a real person/leader it is my job to fullfill the mission object. The AI just has to do what i say. Pretty easy system, because technically the AI can attack fighter/bomber/ground targets allready. The thing is not as complicated as many think.

[AEthelraedUnraed]

1 hour ago, JG27_Steini said:

Connecting the AI with the priorities was in my point of view a wrong starting point. The AI must have a basic plan for the mission, thats correct. But as a leader it has to follow to commands or just follow the leader. It would be much easier to implement a system where the AI does nothing but to execute commands. As a real person/leader it is my job to fullfill the mission object. The AI just has to do what i say. Pretty easy system, because technically the AI can attack fighter/bomber/ground targets allready. The thing is not as complicated as many think.

I disagree with you there. The current system, including the priorities, works well if it is taken for what it basically is, i.e. a set of rules for an AI flight leader to determine what it should order its flight to do. The priorities mean basically the following:

- High: only follow the current standing order, don't engage any other target (but evade if fired on, obviously).

- Medium: go for the target, but engage the attacker if intercepted.

- Low: attack any target you like; basically a free hunt or armed recon type of mission.

All of these have historical parallels, and should therefore be in game.

 

Once IL2 receives a way for human flight leaders to issue commands, it's trivial to use the existing system to work exactly as you want it, by making the flight path just a series of high-priority waypoints *if the flight leader is human*. This would result in the flight doing nothing else than what the player orders.

Edited September 7, 2022 by AEthelraedUnraed

[JG27_Steini]

1 hour ago, AEthelraedUnraed said:

I disagree with you there. The current system, including the priorities, works well if it is taken for what it basically is, i.e. a set of rules for an AI flight leader to determine what it should order its flight to do. The priorities mean basically the following:

- High: only follow the current standing order, don't engage any other target (but evade if fired on, obviously).

- Medium: go for the target, but engage the attacker if intercepted.

- Low: attack any target you like; basically a free hunt or armed recon type of mission.

All of these have historical parallels, and should therefore be in game.

 

Once IL2 receives a way for human flight leaders to issue commands, it's trivial to use the existing system to work exactly as you want it, by making the flight path just a series of high-priority waypoints *if the flight leader is human*. This would result in the flight doing nothing else than what the player orders.

 

What the player order is the first priority. Just override the current priority. That would fix it. Look at the orders for tanks. There is currently an order "follow mission route". We just need the system as for the tanks.

[AEthelraedUnraed]

15 minutes ago, JG27_Steini said:

What the player order is the first priority. Just override the current priority. That would fix it. Look at the orders for tanks. There is currently an order "follow mission route". We just need the system as for the tanks.

You're misunderstanding the priority system. "Priority" does nothing in itself; it just makes it possible for the AI (which right now includes the player) to issue additional orders replacing the current one, e.g. to attack enemy aircraft instead of continuing to the next waypoint. If the player issues another order, that is a new order. Not a new priority.

[I./JG52_Woutwocampe]

I absolutely believe the order 'Cover me' means 'attack my target and ignore the enemy at my 6!'

 

Frustrating.

[Corralandy120000]

On 9/7/2022 at 2:24 AM, I./JG52_Woutwocampe said:

Hope you guys are alright. If the engine itself isnt the problem, then something MUST be done. I am telling it again, the current inflight communication system doesnt come close to games that are 20 years old or more.

 

Its revolting actually.

Amen bro.

On 9/8/2022 at 3:33 AM, I./JG52_Woutwocampe said:

I absolutely believe the order 'Cover me' means 'attack my target and ignore the enemy at my 6!'

 

Frustrating.

I simply can't count how many times the exact same thing happened to me. Even worse, sometimes I got hit by the wingman shooting my target...

Edited September 9, 2022 by Corralandy120000

[I./JG52_Woutwocampe]

14 hours ago, Corralandy120000 said:

Amen bro.

I simply can't count how many times the exact same thing happened to me. Even worse, sometimes I got hit by the wingman shooting my target...

 

Yep. My last Iron man career. It was a while ago, Spit Mark V in Kuban. I was at 28 kills in 18 sorties. 

 

I got killed by a wingman who was clueless about what 'cover me' meant. I was livid and I didnt play until well after BoBP was released.

[Corralandy120000]

6 hours ago, I./JG52_Woutwocampe said:

 

Yep. My last Iron man career. It was a while ago, Spit Mark V in Kuban. I was at 28 kills in 18 sorties. 

 

I got killed by a wingman who was clueless about what 'cover me' meant. I was livid and I didnt play until well after BoBP was released.

This happend to me as well. Three times in a row....

 

It's the main reason I don't play Iron man mod anymore 

Edited September 10, 2022 by Corralandy120000