Question about tactics and fighting the AI

[Skrimps]

I am fairly new to IL-2 and just had a few questions about fighting the AI, as I only play single player/campaigns. I have watched various videos on dog fighting tactics and spent a lot of time with the Air Combat Tutorial library (huge help), but still find myself struggling and not sure what to do when fighting the enemy AI at times. I am currently flying the Mig-3 and I-16. I know from watching some videos on how to fly the Mig-3 that it's not a great turn fighter, and to try and retain energy and not take sharp turns that bleed energy. During some campaign play I notice one of the things the enemy AI likes to do is eventually get you into a prolonged turn fight. I have tried to break away from this, but they usually end up behind me or shoot me head on. I have been able to break away and extend, but the enemy AI will always give chase and I am not sure on the best way to effectively re-engage.

 

After watching a lot of videos on various tactics I realize that a lot of it can be very effective against other human opponents in MP, but since I play SP I will have to stick within the confines of the AI behavior. I was reluctant to post this, being that there is a lot of content available but decided it would be a good idea to get some advice from other players.

 

Also, I am recently starting to fly the I-16 and I am really having a lot of fun with it but have not yet been successful, so any tips on how to properly fight with the I-16 is appreciated as well.

Edited August 12, 2022 by Skrimps
spelling

[=RS=Stix_09]

AI basically turn fights every plane (even bombers).  It can fight in the verticle, and will but you have to lead it into that.

 

What I do is add vertical maneuvers when fighting the AI, it's pretty poor at managing energy, so energy fighting works quite well against the AI.

So my suggestion is learn how to gain energy while making the AI loose it.

 

Its very easy to beat Ai with a better turn figher it requires energy fighting to beat when you do not.

Have a look at  The Air Combat Tutorial Library (you tube channel, which covers Energy Manueverability theory, and other useful info.

(have to learn AI planes as well as your own)

https://www.youtube.com/c/TheAirCombatTutorialLibrary/featured

Edited August 13, 2022 by =RS=Stix_09
updated link

[[CPT]Crunch]

If your fights always stagnate into a tail chases, get out of plane, stay out of plane, and you'll get a better overall fight.  Basically keep changing your lift vector so the AI can't match nor keep his nose on you, while simultaneously maneuvering for advantageous positioning.  Speed and energy advantage isn't always necessary especially when dealing with a dummy.  Throttle is your friend, lot's of rolls and pulls, ups and downs, fight for superior angles first, than go for the kill.  They aren't very good at an angles fight, they only know vector to place nose on and pursue with their AI hair on fire.

[spreckair]

Just because an aircraft isn't known as being a good turn fighter doesn't mean that it cannot turn fight.  I have flown the Mig-3 through an entire Battle of Moscow campaign, and I shot down many dozens of BF-109F fighters, many in turn fights.  It seems that if you can get some initial hits, the target flies less skillfully.  Also, I find that a turning yo-yo maneuver can work fairly well with the Mig.  Less successful against the BF109E, which seems to be much nimbler in turns.

 

Also, so much depends on your initial approach.  Do you have an energy advantage?  Can you find a target that has separated itself from its fellows?  With the Mig-3, I never began a skirmish without a significant altitude advantage (even when my own flight refused to climb higher), and it always helps to let your flight attack a few seconds before you do, so that you can observe the enemy's reaction and take advantage of those who lag behind or get separated.

 

Edited August 26, 2022 by spreckair
more stuff

[ACG_DUDU_]

Great topic, I am also a new player and this is what I struggle with every day. AI wants to play turns and circles game and when I try to break it I just die, because AI is an excellent at aiming. They never fly in a straight line and even if manage to align my plane with them for a second I am always too close and I need to escape or I smash my plane into their rear. Dunno how to "outsmart" AI here.

[Hook_Echo]

I think when we're new we want so badly to make the kill. I fly the Spitfires a lot and when switching to planes that don't turn as well I have to break myself of that get on the tail, get in close, and shoot until they're finished mentality. I set my convergence to 300 meters, and force myself to never follow in a turn more than 90 degrees. Make your pass at high speed, take whatever shot you can, and then fly on. Make a big wide turn once you're clear of the fray and then come back in. A lot of times you won't think you are getting many kills because you don't see them burst into flames or go down, but when you check the stats later they slowly add up. So just take the shots you can and reset. It's actually a much safer way to fight. I notice my survivability is higher when I fly an FW-190 than when I fly a Spitfire, because I don't ever get slow enough for the enemy to follow me, and I don't get sucked in and over focused on a single enemy.

[ACG_DUDU_]

26 minutes ago, Hook_Echo said:

but when you check the stats later they slowly add up

 

Oh well sir, in my case they add up to null, even though I force the enemy to make a mistake and crash, my stats are mostly 0 xD

[stburr91]

1 hour ago, DJI_DUDU said:

Great topic, I am also a new player and this is what I struggle with every day. AI wants to play turns and circles game and when I try to break it I just die, because AI is an excellent at aiming. They never fly in a straight line and even if manage to align my plane with them for a second I am always too close and I need to escape or I smash my plane into their rear. Dunno how to "outsmart" AI here.

 

As a new player to flight sims, I know how hard it is to learn to dogfight, I've only managed to shoot down a few aircraft so far. Just remember that once you do get in behind the enemy aircraft, be sure to throttle down early if you are closing too fast so you don't overshoot. Also, don't be in a hurry to shoot, just focus on following behind the enemy fighter, and a shot will eventually come. 

 

You may find it helpful to watch some youtube videos of IL2 players dogfighting to see what they are doing. You may not be able to do what the skilled pilots are doing in their videos, but you can use it to pick up on the basic concepts of dogfighting. 

 

I know the learning process can be a little frustrating at times, as it's a steep learning curve, but for me, I'm sure am enjoying flying these old warbirds, so I'm having more fun than it is frustrating.   

Edited September 21, 2022 by stburr91

[okaga1]

I'm also having difficulties against AI, especially when flying German planes. I fly quick missions, 1 vs 1 with multiple waves.

If I fly the Spit, I can shoot down 3 109 K4s or 190 D9s without any problem. That's just because AI tries to turn fight them against the Spit which is a bad idea.

But if I fly the K4 or D9 against the Spit, no chance. I could always disengage, but that's not the point. The fight eventually turns into a string of head-on passes, which gives me a 50-50 chance, so it's not a great strategy.  Otherwise I find my self losing energy gradually with each vertical maneuver and as soon as we're on the deck I'm dead. I'm not sure how much I should be pulling when going vertical. Too little and I'm stalling at the top, too much and I bleed energy too quickly.

Do you know of any Youtube videos flying such fights, 190 or 109 vs Spit ? Any other tips on what I might try?

[Hook_Echo]

I don't fly the K4 but I do fly the D9 and the Spit IX. The D9 has better weapon convergence, a lot of firepower, and a ton of ammo. The D9 is faster in WEP and has double the time in that setting. In combat power it is still pretty fast. Much faster than the Spit IX in combat power and not much slower than the Spit IX in WEP even with 150 octane. The D9 can out roll the Spitfire without clipped wings and is still a better roller than a clipped wing Spit, but not by much. The D9 can handle more G's than the Spitfire and is still very maneuverable at high speed. Finally the Spitfire is fragile.

 

Putting this all together, it is difficult to beat a Spit in a 1v1. You must stay fast in the D9 (above like 275 mph, ~440 kph always). At high speed you can turn harder than a Spit. In high speed turns it is the pilot limiting G force not the planes capability that determine max performance turn. Only pull hard for a short time to take a shot. If you can you are better in a one circle fight than a Spitfire at high speed. Your quick roll and G handling allows you to switch the turn direction faster and pull a little harder. Take shots at long range whenever the opportunity arises. You have better convergence. Always take a head on shot in the D9, but do it from distance and then maneuver to avoid return fire. Keep your distance and build your energy. Make the Spitfire turn and bleed energy while you stay fast only do gentle turns until you need to do a hard turn. If you can get any hit onto the Spitfire it is basically out of the fight. A hit to the wing hurts it's turn and speed significantly. A hit to the tail is devastating in Spitfires. When you have an opportunity you have to just get a hit, any hit, and then the fight is yours. When you get that hit don't get greedy. The advantage is now yours. Take your time. With your engine timers you always have more time.

 

I don't go vertical that much in the D9. With it's speed advantage I prefer to keep high speed and very slowy climb as I run in a straight line. You can climb over distance and still be faster than a Spit flying level. You need to keep above ~340 mph (550 kph) to accomplish this.

 

Oh, I usually don't do the waves when practicing, I use the multi plane qmb and set a 1v1 at the max start distance. The 1v1 wave fights starts you too close and too slow. Realistically you would already be cruising fast in a D9. The D9 has a really high cruising speed. It can cruise at 330 mph (530 kph) where a Spitfire would be cruising at 275 mph (440 kph) on continuous. Combat power cruise even more so in the D9. It is one of the best in the game for 30 min combat cruising speed.

[Hook_Echo]

Here is a YouTube playlist I made as I was learning. It's not really in a great order. It's not all encompassing. A lot of the channels have more good content so check their other videos as you go through. For example JG1_Barton has a lot of good videos, but I didn't find his channel until later. I think Sheriff and I Fly Central both have series on 190s in their older videos.

 

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLkd6WSD7L1y6akK4AgzaHcS-C6wgjLZZI

 

[konyanyachiwa]

Just for your information.

 

I won't give up till the end.