VKB kg 12 g1 vs g2

[Customizer171]

Hello

Anyone out there that have experience from both the old and the new version of the KG-12 grip?

I have the old one and it's been great for my needs. I only fly WWII planes so far and the limited number of buttons is fine with me.

However, I have always thought that it feels really cheap, like a toy, and therefore I am curious to know if the new version is substantially better in this area, or if it's a waste of money?

Price has doubled since first version so hopefully it will give a better quality feeling?

Anyone who knows?

[LukeFF]

Cheap? Not hardly, and yes, I've used both and am using the new one as my current stick grip. I've no complaints about it.

Edited August 8, 2022 by LukeFF

[slikslik]

I also have both sticks.  I'm using the V2 as my go to grip. The KG 12 V2 includes the "twist" feature that I use as my rudder.  Great stick!  Can't go wrong for 75 bucks.

[Customizer171]

1 hour ago, slikslik said:

I also have both sticks.  I'm using the V2 as my go to grip. The KG 12 V2 includes the "twist" feature that I use as my rudder.  Great stick!  Can't go wrong for 75 bucks.

 

Is it possible to disable this "twist" feature? I don't need or want it because I have my pedals that I prefer to use.

In Europe we need to pay 100 euro, no big deal if it's feeling better than the first edition?

[dburne]

3 hours ago, Customizer171 said:

 

Is it possible to disable this "twist" feature? I don't need or want it because I have my pedals that I prefer to use.

In Europe we need to pay 100 euro, no big deal if it's feeling better than the first edition?

 

Judging by the frontal image seems it can - appears to have a threaded hole down at the bottom one can screw into to lock the grip in place. The Ultimate Grip with twist has this as well and I use mine locked with a screw.

Probably wise to wait for someone that has one to confirm though.

Edited August 8, 2022 by dburne

[LukeFF]

3 hours ago, Customizer171 said:

Is it possible to disable this "twist" feature?

 

Yes

[Sokol1]

Quote

...it feels really cheap, like a toy, 

 

The new KB12-B grip is made in the same "toy" plastic of the old model, so don't expect  a much different feel. ?

 

However their trigger and lower paddle are made in metal, what may contribute positive for the feel. 

The new model has diamond pattern in the sides of grip, what make then less slippery, an issue in the old model.

POV HAT has a pyramidal cover, more practice to use - the old concave design is a bit slippery; although detract the "vintage" look a bit.

And the new grip has one more button than the old, placed in the left side of the grip, that can be used as "shift" for the other buttons and POV HAT.

 

In Aliexpress the old model still available and the new cost ~33% more, reasonable for the changes that make a improvement in the functionality of the grip.

 

 

Edited August 9, 2022 by Sokol1

[Customizer171]

9 hours ago, Sokol1 said:

 

The new KB12-B grip is made in the same "toy" plastic of the old model, so don't expect  a much different feel. ?

 

However their trigger and lower paddle are made in metal, what may contribute positive for the feel. 

The new model has diamond pattern in the sides of grip, what make then less slippery, an issue in the old model.

POV HAT has a pyramidal cover, more practice to use - the old concave design is a bit slippery; although detract the "vintage" look a bit.

And the new grip has one more button than the old, placed in the left side of the grip, that can be used as "shift" for the other buttons and POV HAT.

 

In Aliexpress the old model still available and the new cost ~33% more, reasonable for the changes that make a improvement in the functionality of the grip.

 

 

 

Thanks for that info.

Must say that it's a bit disappointing if they used the same kind of plastic but maybe I am too picky about these things.

Do they use the same plastic in their modern style grips as well?

Hopefully the texture at the sides of the grip improve the feel .

I have no issue with the price if the "feel" is up to my expectations but right now the old version (which I have) can be had for 39 euro and the new cost 95 euro on the VKB shop in Europe.

That is why I expect an increase in the "quality feeling"

I will probably buy one and check it out, there is no other way to know for sure if I will like it or not.

Edited August 9, 2022 by Customizer171
Spelling

[1Sascha]

On 8/8/2022 at 9:38 PM, Customizer171 said:

Is it possible to disable this "twist" feature?

Yes.

 

I have mine disabled since I use pedals. There's a screw, washer and spring washer included with the grip for just this purpose. Unfortunately, it slowly comes loose for me every week or so (with daily use of the stick). Since the screw goes into a metal thread and not into plastic, I'll probably put some Loctite on there the next time it comes loose, which should remedy the problem.

 

Other than that, I can't compare V1 to V2, but I'm very happy with my V2 of the grip. It absolutely looks and feels the business. The only thing I will say is that the top portion of the grip (the plastic piece/"lid" where the cannon-button sits) will sometimes move a bit when you push down on it hard-ish with your thumb on its rear edge. Doesn't feel loose or flimsy, but there's just a tiny bit of give up there, like the clips meant to hold it aren't 100% exactly holding it in place. Nothing dramatic, but noticeable.

 

I should probably add that I have one of the first KG-12 Evos/V2s ever to be imported into the EU - and I do know that they already made some internal changes to the Evo since then, so maybe this has been fixed as well? Can't tell.

 

 

S.

Edited August 11, 2022 by 1Sascha

[Hartigan]

I use left twist as "lock/unlock tail wheel"? work as button press. So it's still usefull with rudder pedals

[Sokol1]

3 hours ago, Hartigan said:

I use left twist as "lock/unlock tail wheel"? work as button press. So it's still usefull with rudder pedals

 

The twist left (more wrist friendly than right) can be used too as "wheel brakes", removing the thick in (DevCfg) profile > axis > "Cn" (center), this turn movement from the center to left (or right) a full 0 - 100% axis.

Edited August 10, 2022 by Sokol1

[slikslik]

There IS one problem with the V2.  It doesn't have an adjustable hand rest.  My hand wants to slide down as there's about a 1 inch travel space.  It's OK for normal flying, but as soon as I get into a battle, Imy hand slides down too easily.  I'm going to tape something onto the grip to make it fit comfortably and properly for every flight.  A 1 inch piece of styrofoam should do it.  I saw a pic on different sim sight.  Other than that bothersome issue, the KG 12 V2 is a great grip.

[Sokol1]

On 8/10/2022 at 4:58 PM, slikslik said:

There IS one problem with the V2.  It doesn't have an adjustable hand rest.  

 

To be fair the "V1" - early version; It also doesn't have an adjustable hand rest.

 

In this version the hand rest is just removable, for allow access the hole for put a screw for lock the twist movement, and for remove two screws if want disassemble the grip.

 

 

 

Pictures of Ravcore Javelin, OEM version of VKB Gladiator Mk.I, it's the same stick.

 

In "V2" the hand rest is not removable, but the hole and screws have external access.

 

In both models (V1, V2) if need rise the hand, need create your own solution, like 1Sacha did.

 

VKB SCG grip have a removable piece that allow have two height positions. Maybe can draw and 3D print an similar.

 

The VKB grip that have adjustable hand rest height is MCG, in what the palm rest is based on F-35 grip palm rest (I can say that have my "finger" in this).  

 

VirPil and WingWing have some grips with adjustable palm rest height, through a screw system similarly to the one in MiG-29 grip. 

Edited August 12, 2022 by Sokol1

[slikslik]

That pic from 1Sacha was the pic I was referring to.  I made a HUGE mistake when I made what I thought was, the same method and material. I should have read the entire post. With just a quick look, I thought the pad was styrofoam.  Great.  I have some styroam.  I saw it was taped to the stick. Great.  I have tape.  I cut a piece of foam to size, and taped it to my grip.  I did what some of you are already thinking I did.  I used Gorilla tape.  No shit guys.  Now the foam I put there is starting to sag and compress,  The Gorilla tape sticks to the grip like you wouldn't believe.  I  googled for a way to remove the tape, and now I have a lot of careful work to do.  I almost feel like just buying a new K 12 V2.   I may have to buy another one if I have issues getting that friggin tape off.   None of this would have happened, had I simply read the post from 1Sacha.  Oh well...I'll let you guys know what happens.   Take care all...

[1Sascha]

2 hours ago, slikslik said:

Oh well...I'll let you guys know what happens.   Take care all...

Oh boy... sorry to hear that, dude. Good luck removing that stuff. I'm sure with the right solvent, you should be able to get rid of it without doing any permanent damage. Industrial strength alcohol might do the trick (isopropyl). I used it to remove nasty sticky stuff from my desktop, which is some sort of laminated wood, covered with some sort of veneer of "man-made" material. Took the disintegrating sticky pads right off and didn't damage the veneer.

 

S.

[dburne]

18 hours ago, slikslik said:

That pic from 1Sacha was the pic I was referring to.  I made a HUGE mistake when I made what I thought was, the same method and material. I should have read the entire post. With just a quick look, I thought the pad was styrofoam.  Great.  I have some styroam.  I saw it was taped to the stick. Great.  I have tape.  I cut a piece of foam to size, and taped it to my grip.  I did what some of you are already thinking I did.  I used Gorilla tape.  No shit guys.  Now the foam I put there is starting to sag and compress,  The Gorilla tape sticks to the grip like you wouldn't believe.  I  googled for a way to remove the tape, and now I have a lot of careful work to do.  I almost feel like just buying a new K 12 V2.   I may have to buy another one if I have issues getting that friggin tape off.   None of this would have happened, had I simply read the post from 1Sacha.  Oh well...I'll let you guys know what happens.   Take care all...

 

That is a  moment.

We have all been there and done that, things we go why in the heck did I do that! I have done more times than I care to think about or admit to lol.

 

[slikslik]

I got the tape off, and used a diluted alcohol solution for all the crap left behind from that friggin Gorilla tape.  There's a bit of discoloriong on the grip from the alcohol, but you can just barely see it. No problem.  The hardest part of all this, was trying to get that tape off.  You could repair vehicle bodies with that stuff.  It really is a strong tape.  I learned something though.  READ what you're looking at!.   Thanks all....take care..

[1Sascha]

 

On 8/11/2022 at 9:16 PM, slikslik said:

That pic from 1Sacha was the pic I was referring to. 

 

Just an update and FYI after a few months with my jury-rigged, DIY handrest:

 

Those dirt-erasers aren't really super durable long term. I guess they aren't meant to be since they're meant to "disintegrate" when you use them to remove dirt. Just like a regular pencil eraser. They don't fall apart when used this way, but they will flatten a bit with daily use and they do produce a tiny bit of "fluff" just from your hand/palm rubbing against them when in use.

 

Meaning that you're going to have to replace that thing every so often. I think I'm on my third one now since whenever it was that I came up with the idea, so nothing tragic or too expensive. I think a four or six pack of those things runs around €2.50 over here and I can carve at least three, maybe four hand-rests out of a single eraser. Plus they're super easy to work with - even my pretty dull pocket-knife carves through them like they were warm butter.

 

Ideally, one should probably carve a handrest out of those eraser things that fits one's own hand just right, then use that eraser-handrest as a template to manufacture a more permanent and durable version of the thing. Not sure if 3D-printing would work here, but since making your own injection mold and using that to produce your own custom hand-rest would probably be hugely expensive, that's the only obvious method that comes to my mind.

 

 

S.

[slikslik]

8 hours ago, 1Sascha said:

 

 

Just an update and FYI after a few months with my jury-rigged, DIY handrest:

 

Those dirt-erasers aren't really super durable long term. I guess they aren't meant to be since they're meant to "disintegrate" when you use them to remove dirt. Just like a regular pencil eraser. They don't fall apart when used this way, but they will flatten a bit with daily use and they do produce a tiny bit of "fluff" just from your hand/palm rubbing against them when in use.

 

Meaning that you're going to have to replace that thing every so often. I think I'm on my third one now since whenever it was that I came up with the idea, so nothing tragic or too expensive. I think a four or six pack of those things runs around €2.50 over here and I can carve at least three, maybe four hand-rests out of a single eraser. Plus they're super easy to work with - even my pretty dull pocket-knife carves through them like they were warm butter.

 

Ideally, one should probably carve a handrest out of those eraser things that fits one's own hand just right, then use that eraser-handrest as a template to manufacture a more permanent and durable version of the thing. Not sure if 3D-printing would work here, but since making your own injection mold and using that to produce your own custom hand-rest would probably be hugely expensive, that's the only obvious method that comes to my mind.

 

 

S

 

Thanks 1Sascha.  I already ordered a few different types of erasers.  Some are made of some kind of plastic, while the others are various sizes etc.   Total cost for all of them was $35.00cdn.  I know one of these erasers will do the job. I didn't mind spending $35 bucks for the erasers.  That 1 inch gap on the grip drove me nuts.  My hand got sore after a while from squeezing the grip.  Know what I mean?  Anyhow, thanks a ton my friend.  ttyl....take care.

[Sokol1]

How about EVA pads for make palm rest, seems more durable.

They are available in different thickness and strength, it's relatively easy to cut.

 

For an old CH Combatstick I make a palm rest with epoxy putty (2 parts), first cover the plastic shell  with plastic tape, so the putty don't glue in the stick part, after mold the palm rest, remove the part and sand, and finally paint. The palm rest stay in place just by pressure.

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

Don't find the photo after black paint...

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 30, 2022 by Sokol1

[1Sascha]

2 hours ago, Sokol1 said:

For an old CH Combatstick I make a palm rest with epoxy putty (2 parts), first cover the plastic shell  with plastic tape, so the put don't glue in the stick part, after mold the palm rest, remove the part and sand, and finally paint. The palm rest stay in place just by pressure.

That looks *so* much nicer and more "professional" than what I came up with... ?

 

4 hours ago, slikslik said:

My hand got sore after a while from squeezing the grip.  Know what I mean?

 

I know exactly what you mean, that's why I was desperate to find a solution. I don't have the largest hands and when I first got the KG-12 I was still using it velcroed to my desk ... which made my lower arm and wrist sore after 30, 40 mins of flying. I now have the stick mounted centrally (between my legs) which has made the issue less noticeable, but I still use the DIY hand-rest since it feels a bit better than without it. Overall I'll say though that switching from "stick on desk, sitting to the right of my keyboard" to "stick on a central mount" was probably one of the biggest game-changers I've experienced in over 20 years of sim-flying. So much nicer, even though the Evo is hardly the perfect stick to mount centrally and I had to buy a whole bunch of other stuff to make it work (extendable monitor mount, wooden planks to push my pedals far enough from the wall, mount for my throttle, mount for my stick, lockable casters for my chair). But... nobody ever said that having fun was cheap... ?

 

 

S.

Edited August 16, 2022 by 1Sascha

[DeKrieg]

I appear to have lucked out with the hand rest. My kg12 v2 arrived today and it seems my big fat hands are the right side to sit comfortably on the hand rest and still keep full control

 

my only complaint so far is the flip switch for the primary trigger feels very loose, I was under the impression that it was going to be much firmer in terms of having two set positions positions, but it's just gravity and weight that really holds it in the two positions. But that is likely entirely my own misconception of how the flip trigger worked.

 

Aside from that I noticed a stark difference between this and my old x52pro, didn't realise how much I was fighting my old stick until I took a flight with this one.

[LukeFF]

6 hours ago, DeKrieg said:

my only complaint so far is the flip switch for the primary trigger feels very loose, I was under the impression that it was going to be much firmer in terms of having two set positions positions, but it's just gravity and weight that really holds it in the two positions. But that is likely entirely my own misconception of how the flip trigger worked.

 

Apologies if I'm stating the obvious, but you can adjust the tension on the flip trigger with an Allen wrench.

[DeKrieg]

1 minute ago, LukeFF said:

 

Apologies if I'm stating the obvious, but you can adjust the tension on the flip trigger with an Allen wrench.

yeah I noticed that after I posted. Was hoping the hex tool that came with the joystick would have worked adjusting it. Got to find my allen wrench now.

[1Sascha]

On 8/30/2022 at 1:38 PM, DeKrieg said:

but it's just gravity and weight that really holds it in the two positions.

Actually, there's also a little magnet built into the trigger that will hold it on the actual trigger button in the live position.

 

S.

[Sokol1]

On 8/30/2022 at 8:38 AM, DeKrieg said:

...my only complaint so far is the flip switch for the primary trigger feels very loose, I was under the impression that it was going to be much firmer in terms of having two set positions positions, but it's just gravity and weight that really holds it in the two positions.

 

A funny fact about this, in the original KG12-A grip an spring keep the trigger stopped in the lower position by a CAM detent in the axis, if you push the trigger for bypass this detent, the triger jump for the safety position, over top button (B2 Knopf).

 

But an VKB engineer said they couldn't use this system because the trigger bounces with noticeable force and if the user keeps their thumb on the top button while doing this... US buyers could sue VKB   "one million dollars" for hurting their thumb... or ruin their nail polish. ?

 

 

Edited August 31, 2022 by Sokol1

[blitze]

On 8/30/2022 at 2:38 PM, DeKrieg said:

Aside from that I noticed a stark difference between this and my old x52pro, didn't realise how much I was fighting my old stick until I took a flight with this one.

 

Hi DeKrieg - how do you find the K12 vs the X52 Pro?  I'm jostling between the K12 and the Space Sim stick.  Do you use it in combo the the X52 Pro Throttle? (which was what I was thinking of doing)...

 

Be great to hear your thoughts - I mainly fly Il2 but sometimes I like to jump in a Mig 29 or a Su 27 for something different if time allows.

[1Sascha]

15 minutes ago, blitze said:

Be great to hear your thoughts - I mainly fly Il2 but sometimes I like to jump in a Mig 29 or a Su 27 for something different if time allows.

If you fly jets regularly, this is pretty much of a no-brainer if your budget allows it: I'd go for the space grip in that scenario (assuming you're talking about VKB's SCG grip), since the KG-12 isn't really suited to modern jets. Plus it does allow you to adjust the palm-/hand-rest ?

 

I'd probably even go for the Premium variant since you'll get an analogue mini-stick and another 5-way hat on the thumb-rest. Two features that come in very handy in jets.

 

 

 

S.

 

[Sokol1]

2 hours ago, 1Sascha said:

 Plus it does allow you to adjust the palm-/hand-rest ?

 

Nitpicking, for don't frustrate someone expectations, you can't adjust SCG palm rest height - like in MCG, VirPIl T50CM3, Alpha, WingWing F16EX.. just have two fixed options of palm rest height. ?

[1Sascha]

4 hours ago, Sokol1 said:

just have two fixed options of palm rest height. ?

I'm going to out-nitpick you here and simply quote from VKB's website:

 

Quote

2 interchangeable palm rests (total 3 palm size adjustments)

 

Built-in palm-rest, plus one thin and one thick palm-rest "riser".

 

... which means you get 2 more options than the one (and only) that the KG-12 offers. Even my MCG Pro "only" has four different settings for its adjustable palm-rest - and those are fixed too (four holes in the grip for the rest's steel pin to slide into).

 

 

 

S.

Edited September 19, 2022 by 1Sascha

[PAUL_ATREIDES]

On 08/08/2022 at 17:43, LukeFF said:

Bon marché? Pas à peine, et oui, j'ai utilisé les deux et j'utilise le nouveau comme ma poignée de bâton actuelle. Je n'ai rien à redire à ce sujet.

Hi ! Concerning the new one, VKB KG12.. is it automaticly recognized by IL2, or do you have to map all the keys ?   is it stable on a simple desk without fixing?

[slikslik]

On 8/30/2022 at 2:19 PM, LukeFF said:

 

Apologies if I'm stating the obvious, but you can adjust the tension on the flip trigger with an Allen wrench.

Exactly where is the screw located on the stick?  I don't see an allen wrench screw requirement thingy on mine. If you could post a pic, I would sure appreciate it.  I looked all around the top and sides of my KG 12 V2.  Thanks LukeFF.  Take care...

[Sokol1]

5 hours ago, PAUL_ATREIDES said:

Hi ! Concerning the new one, VKB KG12.. is it automaticly recognized by IL2, or do you have to map all the keys ?   is it stable on a simple desk without fixing?

 

It's not automatically mapped, you have to assign axes and buttons manually, like with any other joystick.  

 

It's stable on a deck, the bottom plate is in metal, what add weight, and have holes in the corners, case you want screw in some support.

 

[LukeFF]

3 hours ago, slikslik said:

Exactly where is the screw located on the stick?  I don't see an allen wrench screw requirement thingy on mine. If you could post a pic, I would sure appreciate it.  I looked all around the top and sides of my KG 12 V2.  Thanks LukeFF.  Take care...

 

It's right here:

 

EDIT: the nice thing as well is the Allen wrench size needed to adjust it is the same size needed on any other such screws on VKB controllers. Very convenient. ?

 

Edited September 21, 2022 by LukeFF

[slikslik]

I better get a set of new glasses.   Thanks for taking the time to post that pic LukeFF.  That little Allen wrench works for me too.  Much appreciated my friend.   Take care..

[1Sascha]

On 9/21/2022 at 3:18 PM, PAUL_ATREIDES said:

 is it stable on a simple desk without fixing?

I assume you're talking Evo and I will say that it's *not* entirely stable in the desktop-role. It wasn't for me with the stock 20/20 springs and it certainly wasn't stable when I upped the Y-spring to 30 and applied a bit more clutch.

 

The footprint of the stick is a bit too small and/or the metal plate is a bit too light. Before I got the GL mount, I ended up using heavy duty, plastic on fabric velcro and that was enough to fix that thing to my desk. If you want to *really* nail it down, I'd recommend 3M's "Dual Lock", plastic on plastic velcro.

 

I used this stuff (or something very similar) way back with the very heavily sprung Thrustmaster FCS MK II "Pro" (it came with the stick) and it's *so* strong that you need something like a butter-knife to separate the two layers.

 

Generally speaking, I'd always recommend a truly fixed position for your stick. A mount would be the best solution, but even just velcro-ing the thing to your desk is very helpful IMO since it removes one variable from the "ergonomic-equation"/seating position. I know that it's not just me who gets thrown when their seating position/position of the stick/pedals/throttle are just slightly off.

 

S.

[PAUL_ATREIDES]

Le 08/08/2022 à 17:43, LukeFF a dit :

Bon marché ? Pas à peine, et oui, j'ai utilisé les deux et j'utilise le nouveau comme ma poignée de bâton actuelle. Je n'ai rien à redire à ce sujet.

Salut ! Concernant le nouveau, VKB KG12.. est-il automatiquement reconnu par IL2, ou faut-il mapper toutes les touches ? est-il stable sur un simple bureau sans fixation ?

1 hour ago, 1Sascha said:

I assume you're talking Evo and I will say that it's *not* entirely stable in the desktop-role. It wasn't for me with the stock 20/20 springs and it certainly wasn't stable when I upped the Y-spring to 30 and applied a bit more clutch.

 

The footprint of the stick is a bit too small and/or the metal plate is a bit too light. Before I got the GL mount, I ended up using heavy duty, plastic on fabric velcro and that was enough to fix that thing to my desk. If you want to *really* nail it down, I'd recommend 3M's "Dual Lock", plastic on plastic velcro.

 

I used this stuff (or something very similar) way back with the very heavily sprung Thrustmaster FCS MK II "Pro" (it came with the stick) and it's *so* strong that you need something like a butter-knife to separate the two layers.

 

Generally speaking, I'd always recommend a truly fixed position for your stick. A mount would be the best solution, but even just velcro-ing the thing to your desk is very helpful IMO since it removes one variable from the "ergonomic-equation"/seating position. I know that it's not just me who gets thrown when their seating position/position of the stick/pedals/throttle are just slightly off.

 

S.

Hi thanks for these informations, finally due to several bug on vkb website with paypal, i choosed an other joystick cheaper, but more versatile and i add the Throttle for less the price. (T 16000 + TWCS). Anyway i keep the idea oh the 3M's if i need it..Many thanks.

[1Sascha]

5 hours ago, PAUL_ATREIDES said:

i choosed an other joystick cheaper, but more versatile and i add the Throttle for less the price. (T 16000 + TWCS).

I'll be honest: Not a good call, IMO. The Evo is just so much better and probably the best stick out there right now in its segment of the market. The T16K isn't even in the same league as the Evo as far as I'm concerned.

 

S.

[DeKrieg]

On 9/19/2022 at 3:10 PM, blitze said:

 

Hi DeKrieg - how do you find the K12 vs the X52 Pro?  I'm jostling between the K12 and the Space Sim stick.  Do you use it in combo the the X52 Pro Throttle? (which was what I was thinking of doing)...

 

Be great to hear your thoughts - I mainly fly Il2 but sometimes I like to jump in a Mig 29 or a Su 27 for something different if time allows.

Sorry for late response

 

compared to the x52 pro the k12 is a huge leap in improvement. I've done the magnet trick and all sorts of recommendations for my x52 pro but I've always found it to be a very loose controller which constantly put me out in IL2 (and even war thunder) in terms of gunnery. I was slowly working around it with better pedals etc but once I plugged in the k12 I was shocked at how much more stable everything suddenly was, I spent a chunk of my initial flying with it still pulling the stick cautiously like I would with the x52pro but as I got more use to it I realized I could push and pull further and get much tighter turns with the k12.

 

Maybe I've just always had a bad x52 pro (the only other sticks I had before it was a very very old sidewinder and a very cheap cyborg fly 5) but the k12 completely demolishes the x52 pro.

 

 

I was up until today flying it in combo with the x52 pro throttle, which unlike the stick I've only one complaint, it's a good hefty throttle and comfortable to use with lots of axis options and I was initially going to stick with it. But my only criticism of the x52 throttle is it's actually lacking a bit in buttons. It has a bunch on the throttle handle itself and 2 axis which is great, and a 4 way hat at the back. But trying to get engine management and trim controls onto both sticks (even when it was the x52pro as my main stick) was always a bit of a hassle. I'd still say if you are able to pick it up for a reasonable price the x52pro throttle is very good.

 

But I've picked up the WW2 throttle that is meant to be a sort of companion piece for the k12 today and my opinion on that is rapidly improving. Though I will say it started incredibly negative. Initially I was excited as it was covered in axis and switches and a big chunky mode button but constant problems through the day have annoyed me. It was really only a few hours ago that everything finally clicked and I am seeing a lot of potential now.

 

 

 

 

 

Below are my initial thoughts on the ww2 throttle with the k12 for those interested

 

It had the opposite problem of the k12 where my big hands made it an easier stick for me to handle, here my big hands worked against me as the throttle on the ww2 is nowhere near as chunky as the x52pro throttle, it also lacks that satisfying indent at the top of the axis for when you are pushing the engine at full power (in war thunder and other games and some planes in il2 this is where wep would kick in)

 

  So wasnt initially impressed with the throttle. Then further problems popped up, it arrived premade unlike the gladiator which you initially put together somewhat, which should be a benefit except how it had the flaps switch and gear switch setup were counter productive and a big selling point is the ability to customize them to work in different ways (including as an axis) but to make those changes I had to dismantle the throttle to get to those sections, which proved disastrous because the screwdriver they gave me didnt fit the screws used to secure the cable hold. They gave 2 screwdrivers one for all the other square hole screws and another one just for these holds and it was too small so couldnt unscrew them, which meant I couldnt open the throttle to fix the switches. Had to dig out my own screwdriver set to deal with it and while that worked on one screw it didnt on the other which turned out was just outright stuck and my attempts to unscrew it just made it worst. So I was forced to snap that little hold off to unscrew it all. Thankfully they provided a 2nd cable hold (meant for the other half of the throttle) so I just replaced it with that one.

 

Fiddling with the switches then proved to be a nightmare as you got to after changing them set the throttle in setup mode to tell it they are no longer 3 buttons or is now an axis or 2 buttons. And the guide online is with a different version of the same throttle section (the SEM) but it's upside down to the version I am using so all the numbers are reversed, took forever for me to figure that out.

Finally it turned out after all my tweaking and struggling, it was IL2 that was primarily struggling to recognise the switches that was causing my woes and not the buttons themselves. I had to in the end set them by a trail and error process.

 

But finally they worked.

 

Moved on to try the Mode button which turned out unlike the x52pro doesnt just work out the box, you got to go set it up (Otherwise it's just a 4 button dial) Which was another nightmare, instead I had to do deep dive into the vkb setup software to reprogram the buttons to different modes but it eventually worked, now I got my switches setup so they are in mode 1 all my trim buttons and in mode 2 all my radiator controls I got 2 more mods and still a bunch of buttons I've not really rouched on the base to play with. Arguably I've gone from having too few buttons to having too many now, I actually have to think what I'll use them for.

 

But I test flew a bunch of different planes and I genuinely started getting very comfortable with it by the third or fourth plane and my initial annoyance at the small throttle has mostly vanished as I find it comfortable with the buttons on the side (though again I need to find more uses for them, at the moment I've left my rpm control there.)

 

Edited September 27, 2022 by DeKrieg

[PAUL_ATREIDES]

On 9/24/2022 at 6:34 PM, 1Sascha said:

I'll be honest: Not a good call, IMO. The Evo is just so much better and probably the best stick out there right now in its segment of the market. The T16K isn't even in the same league as the Evo as far as I'm concerned.

 

S.

yes i know that, but i don't only play IL2.. and at this moment for Europe with vat and transport charges it's about 160€ for ther KG12!! I am happy with the T1600 and the throttle.. i will see later.