VR...JUST WOW!!!!

[tattywelshie]

Sorry for the block capitals...but I've entered the world of VR, and wow, just wow, absolutely amazing!!! Just the absolute beauty of the cockpits is enough, but together with the the dogfighting etc, is just mind blowing. I'm 42 now, I think back to my 16 year old playing SWOTL and Aces over Europe and cannot believe how far combat flight simming has come. Anyway, just thought I'd say that VR has literally brought a totally new dimension to IL2, I can appreciate the work the devs have put into this sim even more whilst being sat in these gorgeous planes we have. If you're sat on the fence wondering about VR, just get it, even if its just to sit in the 410 and marvel at the work that goes into this game.

[dburne]

5 minutes ago, tattywelshie said:

Sorry for the block capitals...but I've entered the world of VR, and wow, just wow, absolutely amazing!!! Just the absolute beauty of the cockpits is enough, but together with the the dogfighting etc, is just mind blowing. I'm 42 now, I think back to my 16 year old playing SWOTL and Aces over Europe and cannot believe how far combat flight simming has come. Anyway, just thought I'd say that VR has literally brought a totally new dimension to IL2, I can appreciate the work the devs have put into this sim even more whilst being sat in these gorgeous planes we have. If you're sat on the fence wondering about VR, just get it, even if its just to sit in the 410 and marvel at the work that goes into this game.

 

I can full appreciate the sentiment! I had the same back in Jan 2017 with my first VR experience, and still have it today. 

Enjoy!!

[[CPT]Crunch]

Welcome to WWII air combat in the flesh, or as close as we've ever gotten without using an actual aircraft.  Just wait until your first cockpit fire as you see the smoke starting to build and flames break out, freaked me out because by brain had me smelling the smoke to the point I thought my house was on fire.

[danielprates]

4 hours ago, tattywelshie said:

SWOTL and Aces over Europe

 

When I think of how much sims have progressed in relativelly such a short time, it blows my mind.

[Tonester]

Yep…its almost life changing…welcome to VR

 

[Blitzen]

As they say:

[Skycat1969]

This series is VR for me. My advice is look into VoiceAttack. It definitely has made my flying a lot easier.

 

Thread here with user-offered profiles:

 

[Jeroen83]

I remember the first time I flew in VR I was most impressed with the sight and size of the airplane engine’s. How it sits in front of you in ie a 190 is awesome. Especially in the 2 engined planes it is impressive to see them left and right of you. In 2D this cannot be appreciated at all.

[ITAF_Rani]

Try VR in IL2 and never come back...

[Zeev]

I consider you lucky because for me, I never find it that immersive unless you get to control the cockpit with your both "in-game" hands like in VTOL VR.
Although VTOL VR is more "Arcady" I find it more "immersive" because you control everything inside and not using real life joystick \ keyboard etc.

I find the second game also more immersive because it has proper radio communication and real time AI wingment callouts response to the action. 
Till some of these features is added to IL2, VR will be just a gimick for me, put it maybe once a year to play with IL2 while I keep playing constantly VTOL VR with my VR headset.
On top of that VTOL VR, correct me if I am wrong, has smaller dev team than IL2, yet it has so more features.. (except physics, ofcourse). 

Edited August 5, 2022 by Zeev

[dburne]

12 minutes ago, Zeev said:

I consider you lucky because for me, I never find it that immersive unless you get to control the cockpit with your both "in-game" hands like in VTOL VR.
Although VTOL VR is more "Arcady" I find it more "immersive" because you control everything inside and not using real life joystick \ keyboard etc.

I find the second game also more immersive because it has proper radio communication and real time AI wingment callouts response to the action. 
Till some of these features is added to IL2, VR will be just a gimick for me, put it maybe once a year to play with IL2 while I keep playing constantly VTOL VR with my VR headset.
On top of that VTOL VR, correct me if I am wrong, has smaller dev team than IL2, yet it has so more features.. (except physics, ofcourse). 

 

You will never be able to control the things inside the cockpit in IL-2 Great Battles. They have made that clear over and over.

Not sure why that affects your VR experience with it though, this sim is fantastic in VR and with good hardware with many assignable buttons it can be a lot of fun.

But to each his own, no reason to get into a VTOL discussion here in a VR thread for IL-2 Great Battles. I do not consider VTOL even a serious flight sim anyway which is why I have had no interest in it. And yes I find IL-2 Great Battles to be extremely immersive in VR. Heck we got Normandy just around the corner man!!  

 

Edited August 5, 2022 by dburne

[unlikely_spider]

33 minutes ago, Zeev said:

I never find it that immersive unless you get to control the cockpit with your both "in-game" hands like in VTOL VR.
Although VTOL VR is more "Arcady" I find it more "immersive" because you control everything inside and not using real life joystick \ keyboard etc.

That is very strange, as I feel that "grabbing air" with the controllers to be less immersive than having my hands on an actual stick and throttle.

I haven't even seriously considered VTOL because of that. It can't be that precise, can it?

I mean... I've spent hours and hours practicing things that require a lot of precision like air to air refuelling and carrier landings in "realistic" sims. I can't imagine being able to do those things with VR controllers without some kind of software assist.

[TheSNAFU]

Yep, vr is a game changer for sure. To sit in the cockpit versus looking at it on a monitor is quite mind blowing. Could not imagine playing without vr now. 

[spreckair]

I stopped flying flight sims about 15 years ago because the 2D visual environment was just not immersive enough for me after years of flying, and decided to wait until VR became feasible.  I returned about 18 months ago and now I am an addict to IL-2 in VR.  I just hope that IL-2 never stops growing and that VR continues to improve.  It will be nice when someday the VR image is as clear as the 2D image.  Until then, I am still a happy camper flyer.

[PhilthySpud]

8 hours ago, Zeev said:

I consider you lucky because for me, I never find it that immersive unless you get to control the cockpit with your both "in-game" hands like in VTOL VR.

If the controls are what’s bothering you, you need to look at the Authentikit project: authentikit.org

[Skycat1969]

I recently acquired an UltraLeap Stereo IR 170 camera. I had high hopes for using my real hands in flight sims. Unfortunately I can only get UltraLeap to work in two of my sims (DCS and MSFS 2020), and with only a mixed success at that. While it's cool to see my virtual hands mirroring my actual hands in the sim, in actuality the interaction with VC controls is clumsy and often inaccurate. Using UltraLeap is only moderately more immersive than using physical VR hand controllers. The downside of UltraLeap is I'm constantly snagging VC click-spots I don't intend to.

 

My primary solution for "click pits" in sims like DCS, MSFS, P3Dv5 and FSX with FlyInside has been to use the mouse cursor instead of the "ghost hands" / "laser pointer" method associated with VR hand controllers. Also, I prefer the tactile feel of a joystick so switching my right hand to mouse and back to the stick like in 2-D flight sims works best for me. However, using mouse is sometimes clumsy and distracting -- especially in combat. I think for VR that click-pits work better in civil flight sims, but I admit that Reflected's DCS scripted campaigns "Blue Nosed Bastards of Bodney" and "Wolfpack" have been among the most engaging flight sim missions I've ever experienced.

 

IL-2 Great Battles (w/ Tank Crew and Flying Circus) still gets the majority of my VR time; of my flight sim time; and my gaming time in general. I have my VoiceAttack set up so I can perform almost every keyboard function via speech command including operating the radiators, oil coolers, cowl flaps, intercooler, RPM, water injection switch, etc.

[Zeev]

12 hours ago, unlikely_spider said:

That is very strange, as I feel that "grabbing air" with the controllers to be less immersive than having my hands on an actual stick and throttle.

I haven't even seriously considered VTOL because of that. It can't be that precise, can it?

I mean... I've spent hours and hours practicing things that require a lot of precision like air to air refuelling and carrier landings in "realistic" sims. I can't imagine being able to do those things with VR controllers without some kind of software assist.

It depends on the VR hardware and your PC hardware I guess. 
Sometimes its very precise, sometimes it stutters. 
I agree that the VR hardware is still not perfect (I have HP Reverb G2) but for me, its way more immersive when controlling the virtual joystick with the VR controllers.
And yeah you have refueling in VTOL VR and its pretty hard

[Goffik]

13 hours ago, Zeev said:

On top of that VTOL VR, correct me if I am wrong, has smaller dev team than IL2, yet it has so more features...

 

Lol... about the only meaningful feature it has which IL-2 doesn't is interactive cockpits. Even that feature is massively over-simplified, and does not resemble the complexity of even a WWII fighter cockpit, let alone the cockpit of the equivalent modern jets it features. Everything else, from the graphics to the audio to the feature set to the amount of content available (three planes and a chopper, compared to IL-2's who-knows-how-many), pales in comparison, and that is a direct result of having a one-man dev team. Don't get me wrong, I like VTOL VR and think the dev has done an amazing job with it. But claiming that it more fully featured than IL-2 is laughable.

 

I don't think interactive cockpits are a major source of immersion either, to be honest. At least, not for me. I find waving my hands around in space with no physical contact on an actual button or switch to be the opposite... immersion breaking. Doesn't matter how accurate or smooth it is... there's no tactile response, and you have to give the use of that control your full attention to ensure you hit it right. You can't just reach out and hit it without looking using muscle memory, as you could in a real cockpit... or as you can with a physical controller. So I find my HOTAS + G27 H-box setup far more immersive, for both IL-2 and for another nameless sim which does have interactive cockpits.

[Lusekofte]

I found myself going back to 2D

I like multiple screen and real panels. 

This game is the only one I fly vr with 

I got a Rift S and G2

Latter is a pain in the ass getting sorted so I shelved it and use Rift S instead.

I find my 49 " screen and a second screen for instruments in COD give me a much better and more comfortable flying.

Then again, I like cod much more and DCS witch benefit multiple screen much more than this

[Fouldespiser25]

On 8/4/2022 at 6:08 PM, danielprates said:

 

When I think of how much sims have progressed in relativelly such a short time, it blows my mind.

If 28 years is "relatively short time" Then you must be an old man  

It may look prettier.  Falcon 3 had a better AI than this game, by A LOT...

On 8/6/2022 at 3:44 AM, Goffik said:

 

Lol... about the only meaningful feature it has which IL-2 doesn't is interactive cockpits. Even that feature is massively over-simplified, and does not resemble the complexity of even a WWII fighter cockpit, let alone the cockpit of the equivalent modern jets it features. Everything else, from the graphics to the audio to the feature set to the amount of content available (three planes and a chopper, compared to IL-2's who-knows-how-many), pales in comparison, and that is a direct result of having a one-man dev team. Don't get me wrong, I like VTOL VR and think the dev has done an amazing job with it. But claiming that it more fully featured than IL-2 is laughable.

 

I don't think interactive cockpits are a major source of immersion either, to be honest. At least, not for me. I find waving my hands around in space with no physical contact on an actual button or switch to be the opposite... immersion breaking. Doesn't matter how accurate or smooth it is... there's no tactile response, and you have to give the use of that control your full attention to ensure you hit it right. You can't just reach out and hit it without looking using muscle memory, as you could in a real cockpit... or as you can with a physical controller. So I find my HOTAS + G27 H-box setup far more immersive, for both IL-2 and for another nameless sim which does have interactive cockpits.

Using VR without an interactive cockpit borders on insanity.

Simply compare P51 startup in IL2 vs DCS, LOLOL....  Now that I know how to operate the P51 like real life I don't have to memorize arbitrary button assignments.  Thats how God intended.  Keeping your head buried in 1993 wont make it 1993 again.  That you think it isn't needed in VR is what is laughable.

Edited August 7, 2022 by Fouldespiser25

[DD_Crash]

Click pits have their place but I am not sure that it is here.

[Zeev]

On 8/6/2022 at 1:44 PM, Goffik said:

 

Lol... about the only meaningful feature it has which IL-2 doesn't is interactive cockpits. Even that feature is massively over-simplified, and does not resemble the complexity of even a WWII fighter cockpit, let alone the cockpit of the equivalent modern jets it features. Everything else, from the graphics to the audio to the feature set to the amount of content available (three planes and a chopper, compared to IL-2's who-knows-how-many), pales in comparison, and that is a direct result of having a one-man dev team. Don't get me wrong, I like VTOL VR and think the dev has done an amazing job with it. But claiming that it more fully featured than IL-2 is laughable.

 

I don't think interactive cockpits are a major source of immersion either, to be honest. At least, not for me. I find waving my hands around in space with no physical contact on an actual button or switch to be the opposite... immersion breaking. Doesn't matter how accurate or smooth it is... there's no tactile response, and you have to give the use of that control your full attention to ensure you hit it right. You can't just reach out and hit it without looking using muscle memory, as you could in a real cockpit... or as you can with a physical controller. So I find my HOTAS + G27 H-box setup far more immersive, for both IL-2 and for another nameless sim which does have interactive cockpits.

 

* Wingment callouts when there is action (not scripted)

* Rearm and Refuel no matter what the mission is, by default

* Map editor with more functions and terrain editor, even draw and design the triggers like in Unreal engine

* Workshop and ingame mission browser, way much better than downloading missions from forums or third party websites

* Actuall mod support. There are custom planes that were made by players.

 

You can claim that the cockpit is less demanding but you can still do most of the important things like in DCS.
There are many kindsof ammunition for all sort of jobs. 

Also its not only clickable cockpit or not, you actually feel like you are in because you are controlling your hands there.
For me its way more immersive.

Edited August 7, 2022 by Zeev

[Jeroen83]

One thing that I also really like in VR is night flying. 
 

To start on the ramp at night, bad weather, cold and dark cockpit, and hear the rain tick on the canopy just before starting the plane is super real.

[tattywelshie]

Another thing I find, is the realism of actual eye strain which im sure pilots would have suffered. I find flying in the evening when im tired in VR and my eyes are a bit watery to be such a challenge. 

[SIA_Sp00k]

Found yourself putting your elbow up to the cockpit sill yet?

[DD_Arthur]

3 minutes ago, SIA_Sp00k said:

Found yourself putting your elbow up to the cockpit sill yet?

Yeah, and I’ve found myself sprawled on my ass after trying to walkaround the Ju52 ‘pit.?

Just realised I’ve never done any VR night flying in IL2, gonna have to give that a go?.

[Skycat1969]

When I was still new to VR I gave myself a good fright in Bodenplatte  while admiring the P-51's cockpit. The aircraft was parked so I decided to "climb out onto the wing" by standing up from my real world chair and stepping to the right. As soon as I was outside of the zone of the cockpit the external mode toggled on, complete with the seated pilot figure--very suddenly and unexpectedly I had a life sized man materialize inches behind me. It nearly gave me a heart attack!

[AuburnAlumni]

Yup, it's the ONLY way to play IL2 IMO.

 

I've got a G2, 3080 12GB, 5900x setup and I've dialed in the settings to where I have a solid 90FPS with no rear projection and I'm in heaven.

 

You really get a feel for how cramped...or not...the different cockpits are and it's just a light years more immersive experience.  Between voice attack and the 193848 buttons I have on my Thrusmaster Warthog HOTAS setup...I'm good on controls in VR as well.

 

I love Flying Circus in VR as well...something about an open cockpit with those Bi and Triplanes is just freaking awesome.

[Jade_Monkey]

Anyone flying VR, do yourself a favor and check out the FSR download for extra quality: https://github.com/fholger/openvr_fsr

The improvement is so great, that when i reinstalled the game and didnt do this, i thought the game was broken.

The AMD solution works for all cards, regardless of brand, and there is no noticeable performance impact. The Nvidia solution requires Nvidia card if I recall correctly.

 

Download and drop in bin/game folder: https://github.com/fholger/openvr_fsr/releases/tag/fsr_v2.1.1

[Skycat1969]

I've tried Open FSR several times with Rift S and Reverb G2. I don't like it at all. (RTX 2080 Ti.)

[Goffik]

On 8/7/2022 at 4:53 PM, Fouldespiser25 said:

Using VR without an interactive cockpit borders on insanity.

Simply compare P51 startup in IL2 vs DCS, LOLOL....  Now that I know how to operate the P51 like real life I don't have to memorize arbitrary button assignments.  Thats how God intended.  Keeping your head buried in 1993 wont make it 1993 again.  That you think it isn't needed in VR is what is laughable.

 

Oh, grow up why don't you? Different people prefer different things. What works for you doesn't work for everyone, and you have completely failed to counter any of the drawbacks I mentioned other than trying to bring God into a discussion about VR. If you can't make a legitimate argument without trying to belittle others then it pretty much shows what kind of person you are, quite frankly. One that isn't worth talking to.

 

On 8/7/2022 at 9:30 PM, Zeev said:

* Wingment callouts when there is action (not scripted)

* Rearm and Refuel no matter what the mission is, by default

* Map editor with more functions and terrain editor, even draw and design the triggers like in Unreal engine

* Workshop and ingame mission browser, way much better than downloading missions from forums or third party websites

* Actuall mod support. There are custom planes that were made by players.

 

* Wingman callouts are not scripted in IL-2 either, when I'm playing campaign mode. They see enemies, they call out the locations.

* Rearming and refuelling in a few seconds halfway through a mission is in no way based on reality, especially in WWII, so why would it be part of IL-2?

* Pretty sure IL-2 has a mission editor which people have used to create whole campaigns. So your point here is...?

* Lol... Workshop is a Steam feature, not a VTOL VR feature. If coming here to download missions is such a big hassle for you... well, what can I say?

* Honestly, couldn't care less. IL-2 has loads of planes with more on the way already. Not having dedicated mod support keeps all the garbage plane mods that some kid has put together in ten minutes out of the sim, and that to my mind is a good thing. Opinions will vary of course, but after decades of trawling through poorly made mods I'm done with it, and generally stick to official content these days.

 

On 8/7/2022 at 9:30 PM, Zeev said:

For me its way more immersive.

 

And that's absolutely fine. I really don't understand why people take opinions like statements of fact which they have to rail against these days. Everything I said was my opinion based on my experience, my preferences, and the information I have. I find clickable cockpits non-immersive and completely unnecessary. If you find them otherwise then that's fine, good for you. You can keep campaigning for them, and I can keep pointing out that there are those of us who would rather the devs work on something else.

[LeRocket]

On 8/6/2022 at 3:01 AM, Skycat1969 said:

I recently acquired an UltraLeap Stereo IR 170 camera. I had high hopes for using my real hands in flight sims. Unfortunately I can only get UltraLeap to work in two of my sims (DCS and MSFS 2020), and with only a mixed success at that. While it's cool to see my virtual hands mirroring my actual hands in the sim, in actuality the interaction with VC controls is clumsy and often inaccurate. Using UltraLeap is only moderately more immersive than using physical VR hand controllers. The downside of UltraLeap is I'm constantly snagging VC click-spots I don't intend to.

 

My primary solution for "click pits" in sims like DCS, MSFS, P3Dv5 and FSX with FlyInside has been to use the mouse cursor instead of the "ghost hands" / "laser pointer" method associated with VR hand controllers. Also, I prefer the tactile feel of a joystick so switching my right hand to mouse and back to the stick like in 2-D flight sims works best for me. However, using mouse is sometimes clumsy and distracting -- especially in combat. I think for VR that click-pits work better in civil flight sims, but I admit that Reflected's DCS scripted campaigns "Blue Nosed Bastards of Bodney" and "Wolfpack" have been among the most engaging flight sim missions I've ever experienced.

 

IL-2 Great Battles (w/ Tank Crew and Flying Circus) still gets the majority of my VR time; of my flight sim time; and my gaming time in general. I have my VoiceAttack set up so I can perform almost every keyboard function via speech command including operating the radiators, oil coolers, cowl flaps, intercooler, RPM, water injection switch, etc.

My personal solution to DCS clickpits is to use joy2key to map lmb, rmb, and mouse scroll to one of my hat switches. This allows me to simply look at the buttons I need to use and manipulate them without taking my hands off my hotas.

 

The only problem I encountered was neck strain from trying to look at certain controls that are down to my sides. Besides that, I find that it's a fairly elegant solution. You can also use it to navigate menus without using keyboard or mouse.

[newbravado]

I put little felt sticky pads on my keyboard to help me with key location while in VR. It works for me. 

[kestrel79]

Isn't IL2 in VR amazing? I get that same feeling every time, and it's been over 3 years for me.

 

IL2 is a ww2 combat simulator. I personally like that it takes less time to get in the air when flying online. I don't have to spend 30 minutes starting the plane up, take off, get shot down, and then have to do it all over again. I got limited time to play these days. It's a good gameplay compromise.

[dburne]

19 hours ago, kestrel79 said:

Isn't IL2 in VR amazing? I get that same feeling every time, and it's been over 3 years for me.

 

IL2 is a ww2 combat simulator. I personally like that it takes less time to get in the air when flying online. I don't have to spend 30 minutes starting the plane up, take off, get shot down, and then have to do it all over again. I got limited time to play these days. It's a good gameplay compromise.

 

Yes IL-2 in VR is absolutely incredible! I have been running it in VR ever since they released support for VR.

[AndyS]

The 1 thing i would really like to see in this game is 'goggles down' when combat is about to kick off.

The immersion would be even greater with this simple option to be looking through your pilots goggles.

Keeping my fingers crossed for the future.

 

[Jeroen83]

On 8/8/2022 at 12:23 AM, DD_Arthur said:

Yeah, and I’ve found myself sprawled on my ass after trying to walkaround the Ju52 ‘pit.?

Just realised I’ve never done any VR night flying in IL2, gonna have to give that a go?.

Make sure you turn the gamma all the way down to make it really as dark as it should be. I fly with gamma 0.9 at daytime, 0.7 at dawn/dusk and 0.5 (I believe that’s the lowest) at night. 
 

I use Vander’s EMG for mission generating and he did a great job adding all kinds of details and suprises for night flying - I won’t spoil anything but be sure to find out yourself!