TM Warthog throttle

[Customizer171]

Would it be recommended to buy this throttle for use in IL-2?

I know it's old but from my understanding it should still be a good choice?

I can get it new for a little bit more than 200 euro.

I am now using the TM TWCS, it's okay but it feels rather cheap and like a toy.

Will I gain anything from the switch apart from the quality feeling and dual engine management?

Will I lose any functions if I switch.

Virpil CM 3 feels a bit too expensive so I thought maybe this could be good value for the money.

Any help in making up my mind is greatly appreciated!

[IckyATLAS]

It is an excellent choice, personal opinion here.

I use the TM Warthog Joystick, Throttle, and the TPR pendular pedals since many years and up to now no issues.

The programming through the graphic interface allows for a complete customized action mode setup of each key, switch and axis for the three units.

 

[Customizer171]

1 hour ago, IckyATLAS said:

It is an excellent choice, personal opinion here.

I use the TM Warthog Joystick, Throttle, and the TPR pendular pedals since many years and up to now no issues.

The programming through the graphic interface allows for a complete customized action mode setup of each key, switch and axis for the three units.

 

 

Thanks for that info.

I have the TPR as well, and I really like them, but when thinking of it now it would probably been better if I spent that money on the throttle from the beginning. 

[jollyjack]

I bought a set years ago; the joystick wiring gave out, but i was able to repair it (broken wire in the Base after 3 years).

I modded an axis controller button for yaw on the throttle unit. I hate pedals.

[[CPT]Crunch]

Just unboxed a brand new warthog today, long time virpil first edition user, after examining the hog wouldn't trade my old virpil for a new hog, there is no comparison when it comes to ergonomics and quality.  Kind of shocked how awful and low quality the actual throttle levers are on the hog, loose and wobbly especially side to side, made worse with a huge spread in between grips.  To me they're very sloppy, I could it see if they were actual metal, but plastic throw levers on this design don't cut it.  Virpil despite being plastic is rock solid in comparison and over all has superior ergonomics for the the human hand.  Could see the warthog base design principle being used with work gloves in a heavy duty environment as the real metal deal, but with its actual plastic build one wouldn't dare, it wouldn't last long.

 

Advantage definitely virpil for the competitive win in a virtual fight.  Costs more, but in my eyes your also getting much more bang for your buck, faster and easier access to more control functions in game. 

 

Didn't buy the hog for myself, full disclosure, thank goodness.

[dburne]

I have been running my Virpil CM3 Throttle for about a year and a half now, absolutely love it. Way better than the Warthog throttle I used for years previously. But yeah if money is a big factor the Warthog would be ok like I said I used mine previously for several years. I did  have one go bad on me though.

Edited August 4, 2022 by dburne

[1Sascha]

I just bought one when I got a price-alert for it on amazon for 207 €. I upgraded from a TWCS and the difference between the two is quite pronounced. One feels like a toy, the other like a professional's tool.

 

I did try both the WW Orion (older version) and the Virpil T50 and while both are nicer products, they're also quite a bit more expensive - 100% and 150% more actually. Since I also want to upgrade my Gladiator Evo in the near future and all I really wanted was a more precise, non-sticky throttle with modern sensors and lots of functions, I went with the WH.

 

So far it's been great in all my sims, including IL-2.

Lots of guys will tell you that it's an inferior, outdated product compared to the WW and Virpil and they're probably correct - but that doesn't mean it's a bad choice in 2022, especially for around 200 EUR.

 

Drawbacks:

1. Weight. This thing is *heavy*. I already took out the three metal bars they put on the inside to make it even heavier (saved me 300g), but it still has two steel base-plates, one of which is totally superfluous IMO. You can take the outer one off but you'll need to shorten the stock screws by 2mm for them to then not protrude from the underside (threads aren't deep enough to put the screws all the way in with the second plate missing) .... or you'll need to find these exact same screws but 2mm shorter. Already tried my local HW-store, but they couldn't help.

 

2. Slew-control is pretty crappy. Only thing I'm using is its push/button function at the moment because the nipple-thingie is just garbage. I'm currently eying the slew stick upgrade from Deltasim which is around 70 EUR all in (gotta import it from the UK).

 

3. Some of the buttons are ridiculously hard to press - pinky button on the outer grip and both the auto-pilot and L/G buttons require quite a bit of force to operate. After a few days I got used to it though.

 

4. The fact that it's a pretty exact replica means that you get some "awkward", special A-10 switches/rockers where a generic throttle would have a 4-way hat. Which would almost always be the more convenient choice in any sim/plane that doesn't use those type of switches. But so far, I've not come across anything I couldn't map in games other than DCS by either getting a bit creative or by using Joy2Key.

 

 

Other than that, I am very happy with my purchase. If money had been no object, I'd have gone with the Virpil for sure. But for ~200 EUR, this thing is a pretty sweet deal IMO, warts (ha, ha) and all. The throttle action is super precise both mechanically and electronically. The whole product has a feel of solidity and toughness to it and I've seen long time reviews (like after 6, 7 or more years of use) that seem to confirm that.

 

Yes: Both of the other two throttles I mentioned are probably built even better and with even more steel, but you'll have to pay a hefty premium for that, so ...

 

S.

 

Edited August 5, 2022 by 1Sascha

[dburne]

Interesting you have your Warthog Throttle mounted to the desk, why the need to go to trouble of taking things out to reduce the weight?

[1Sascha]

8 hours ago, dburne said:

Interesting you have your Warthog Throttle mounted to the desk, why the need to go to trouble of taking things out to reduce the weight?

Because that TM clamp I'm using seems at the upper limits of its strength with the WHT sitting on it. TM themselves explicitly don't recommend that mount for the WH - citing the lack of matching mounting holes on it. But I suspect the weight of the throttle might also be a reason, albeit one they don't communicate.

On a side note: It is possible to fix the throttle to the mount - I've done it with two screws and matching wingnuts I had lying around. But I wouldn't recommend buying the TM clamp for the Warthog. It is completely fine for lighter stuff like the TWCS or plastic sticks, especially since it's quite a bit cheaper than my VKB UCM.

 

Another reason is the fact that I move my mounts around twice a day and the added weight makes this more inconvenient. Going to replace that mount eventually with another VKB UCM-S (which is super easy and quick to do up and undo), but for now, I think a bit of weight reduction can't hurt.

 

I'd go as far as saying that if I had the thing sitting on my desk instead of on a mount, I wouldn't even worry about its weight.

 

Plus both the second base-plate and those three bars are literally just dead weight, doing nothing for nobody ...

 

S.

Edited August 5, 2022 by 1Sascha

[Customizer171]

20 hours ago, jollyjack said:

I bought a set years ago; the joystick wiring gave out, but i was able to repair it (broken wire in the Base after 3 years).

I modded an axis controller button for yaw on the throttle unit. I hate pedals.

 

Were you happy with it?

Still using it or did you upgrade?

Do you think it is a good value now when sold for a bit more than 200 euro, or would it be better to look at something else?

17 hours ago, [CPT]Crunch said:

Just unboxed a brand new warthog today, long time virpil first edition user, after examining the hog wouldn't trade my old virpil for a new hog, there is no comparison when it comes to ergonomics and quality.  Kind of shocked how awful and low quality the actual throttle levers are on the hog, loose and wobbly especially side to side, made worse with a huge spread in between grips.  To me they're very sloppy, I could it see if they were actual metal, but plastic throw levers on this design don't cut it.  Virpil despite being plastic is rock solid in comparison and over all has superior ergonomics for the the human hand.  Could see the warthog base design principle being used with work gloves in a heavy duty environment as the real metal deal, but with its actual plastic build one wouldn't dare, it wouldn't last long.

 

Advantage definitely virpil for the competitive win in a virtual fight.  Costs more, but in my eyes your also getting much more bang for your buck, faster and easier access to more control functions in game. 

 

Didn't buy the hog for myself, full disclosure, thank goodness.

 

I appreciate your information.

I do understand that a Virpil would be much better, however it is also more than double the price, so maybe it's not fair to compare the two?

I got it that you are not impressed by the Warthog but what else would you recommend (for 200$) that would be an upgrade from my current throttle, a TM TWCS ?

Second hand market is not much help in my place and I also prefer to buy new.

17 hours ago, dburne said:

I have been running my Virpil CM3 Throttle for about a year and a half now, absolutely love it. Way better than the Warthog throttle I used for years previously. But yeah if money is a big factor the Warthog would be ok like I said I used mine previously for several years. I did  have one go bad on me though.

 

No question about it, the Virpil would be much better but also more than double the amount.

I actually do have the money but am not sure if I want to spend that much. I did buy the TM TPR rudders from the start and even if I like them I would probably not spend that much money on rudders if I did it again.

That is what I am thinking of, is the Warthog good enough for the money I have to spend, or should I buy once and cry once (Virpil)?

Do you think the Warthog would be a good value for a bit more than 200$ ?

[Customizer171]

17 hours ago, 1Sascha said:

I just bought one when I got a price-alert for it on amazon for 207 €. I upgraded from a TWCS and the difference between the two is quite pronounced. One feels like a toy, the other like a professional's tool.

 

I did try both the WW Orion (older version) and the Virpil T50 and while both are nicer products, they're also quite a bit more expensive - 100% and 150% more actually. Since I also want to upgrade my Gladiator Evo in the near future and all I really wanted was a more precise, non-sticky throttle with modern sensors and lots of functions, I went with the WH.

 

So far it's been great in all my sims, including IL-2.

Lots of guys will tell you that it's an inferior, outdated product compared to the WW and Virpil and they're probably correct - but that doesn't mean it's a bad choice in 2022, especially for around 200 EUR.

 

Drawbacks:

1. Weight. This thing is *heavy*. I already took out the three metal bars they put on the inside to make it even heavier (saved me 300g), but it still has two steel base-plates, one of which is totally superfluous IMO. You can take the outer one off but you'll need to shorten the stock screws by 2mm for them to then not protrude from the underside (threads aren't deep enough to put the screws all the way in with the second plate missing) .... or you'll need to find these exact same screws but 2mm shorter. Already tried my local HW-store, but they couldn't help.

 

2. Slew-control is pretty crappy. Only thing I'm using is its push/button function at the moment because the nipple-thingie is just garbage. I'm currently eying the slew stick upgrade from Deltasim which is around 70 EUR all in (gotta import it from the UK).

 

3. Some of the buttons are ridiculously hard to press - pinky button on the outer grip and both the auto-pilot and L/G buttons require quite a bit of force to operate. After a few days I got used to it though.

 

4. The fact that it's a pretty exact replica means that you get some "awkward", special A-10 switches/rockers where a generic throttle would have a 4-way hat. Which would almost always be the more convenient choice in any sim/plane that doesn't use those type of switches. But so far, I've not come across anything I couldn't map in games other than DCS by either getting a bit creative or by using Joy2Key.

 

 

Other than that, I am very happy with my purchase. If money had been no object, I'd have gone with the Virpil for sure. But for ~200 EUR, this thing is a pretty sweet deal IMO, warts (ha, ha) and all. The throttle action is super precise both mechanically and electronically. The whole product has a feel of solidity and toughness to it and I've seen long time reviews (like after 6, 7 or more years of use) that seem to confirm that.

 

Yes: Both of the other two throttles I mentioned are probably built even better and with even more steel, but you'll have to pay a hefty premium for that, so ...

 

S.

 

 

Thanks a lot for your detailed response.

I am also thinking like you, that the Virpil is being better but for a lot more money,  and it's not always necessary to have the most advanced equipment.

I understand that you think it is a big upgrade in feel and quality from the TWCS, but is there any functions from the TWCS that you are missing on the Warthog?

I like the paddle on the TWCS and use it for the left/right breaks on the English airplanes. Is there a good way to do this on the Warthog?

[dburne]

What I really like with the Virpil CM3 Throttle is all the axis available.

Not only the two throttles, but the mini-stick which works fantastic and really spanks the Warthog's, the flaps lever that is an axis, and a slider with center detent that is an axis. Plus with the Virpil software it is very easy to add buttons to any axis with the axis to button function. Very easy and you can pretty much put buttons wherever you want in that axis travel.

Plus it has a 5 way mode shift dial where you can also assign different commands to each shift button ( there are 6 of them) depending on where the mode shift dial is. Plus with the two throttles you can slide the locking pin in to lock them both together and they act like one axis.

 

So for me what really sold me to move to the Virpil CM3 Throttle over my Warthog was the above primarily. Plus the two detents per throttle axis and the ability to adjust them physically and the number of physical detent option you get with it. 

 

My review and experience with the Virpil CM3 throttle here:

 

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/68534-new-virpil-cm3-throttle/

 

 

[1Sascha]

6 hours ago, Customizer171 said:

but is there any functions from the TWCS that you are missing on the Warthog?

Hmmm... not *really*... the radio dial for your pinky isn't present on the WH, but there's a nice slider on the right side of the base - and it has a 50% detent, so it's great for trim or flaps. There's nothing comparable to the paddle axis, but I suppose you could use one of the hat switches (one for your thumb, one on the rear of the grip for your index-finger) in a similar manner (if you can map those functions to a button in IL-2, not sure about that).

 

Or you could try and use the slew control in this fashion, since it is a stick, essentially, with an X- and Y-axis.  I'm using my MFG's toe-brakes, so I never really had a need for that "paddle". I turned it into two buttons via Joy2Key and used those for landing lights and to open/close the canopy.

 

S.

[SCG_Tzigy]

6 hours ago, Customizer171 said:

 

Were you happy with it?

Still using it or did you upgrade?

Do you think it is a good value now when sold for a bit more than 200 euro, or would it be better to look at something else?

 

I appreciate your information.

I do understand that a Virpil would be much better, however it is also more than double the price, so maybe it's not fair to compare the two?

I got it that you are not impressed by the Warthog but what else would you recommend (for 200$) that would be an upgrade from my current throttle, a TM TWCS ?

Second hand market is not much help in my place and I also prefer to buy new.

 

No question about it, the Virpil would be much better but also more than double the amount.

I actually do have the money but am not sure if I want to spend that much. I did buy the TM TPR rudders from the start and even if I like them I would probably not spend that much money on rudders if I did it again.

That is what I am thinking of, is the Warthog good enough for the money I have to spend, or should I buy once and cry once (Virpil)?

Do you think the Warthog would be a good value for a bit more than 200$ ?

 

I totally understand where dburne is coming from and it sounds like V is definitely the top throttle to have.  However, my $0.02:  I have been running TM hardware ever since it came out (2010!!!) and have been extremely happy overall. I have 3 complete sets (2 desktop PCs set up fully, and one set of HOTAS as a backup/spare) and have had only minor issues over the years. I think once I had to send the throttle quadrant back, do not even remember what that was.  Over the last 12 years i have had few failed switches. Some were sent free to me under warranty some I had to pay few bucks. Again extremely happy and at this point I am not looking to upgrade/change

[Customizer171]

7 hours ago, SCG_Tzigy said:

 

I totally understand where dburne is coming from and it sounds like V is definitely the top throttle to have.  However, my $0.02:  I have been running TM hardware ever since it came out (2010!!!) and have been extremely happy overall. I have 3 complete sets (2 desktop PCs set up fully, and one set of HOTAS as a backup/spare) and have had only minor issues over the years. I think once I had to send the throttle quadrant back, do not even remember what that was.  Over the last 12 years i have had few failed switches. Some were sent free to me under warranty some I had to pay few bucks. Again extremely happy and at this point I am not looking to upgrade/change

 

It sounds like those who have it are happy and those who are not, are the ones that upgraded to more expensive equipment ?

I guess the trick is to not try anything superior, hahaha.

I appreciate your help ?

[cardboard_killer]

 

[1Sascha]

On 8/6/2022 at 7:23 AM, Customizer171 said:

I guess the trick is to not try anything superior, hahaha.

Well, I was lucky enough to get to try the other options since I was at a flight-sim LAN event in May where there were tons of guys with high-end HOTAS setups ... and I still didn't go for either WW or Virpil.

 

It's hard to argue figures and €200 vs €400+ vs €495 means that the WH would have to be pretty crappy for it to not have been a strong contender here. And, as I stated already, while it is noticeably "worse" than the other two, it's still a pretty awesome product - especially for the price and considering the "surcharge" (€200+ or €300) you'd have to pay for the other two

If I had to compare it to, say, cars:

 

WH = Porsche Boxster

WW = Porsche 911 Turbo

Virpil = Ferrari F8

 

The Boxster is "worse" than the other two in many ways, but it's still a great car.

 

S.

Edited August 7, 2022 by 1Sascha

[Customizer171]

1 hour ago, 1Sascha said:

Well, I was lucky enough to get to try the other options since I was at a flight-sim LAN event in May where there were tons of guys with high-end HOTAS setups ... and I still didn't go for either WW or Virpil.

 

It's hard to argue figures and €200 vs €400+ vs €495 means that the WH would have to be pretty crappy for it to not have been a strong contender here. And, as I stated already, while it is noticeably "worse" than the other two, it's still a pretty awesome product - especially for the price and considering the "surcharge" (€200+ or €300) you'd have to pay for the other two

If I had to compare it to, say, cars:

 

WH = Porsche Boxster

WW = Porsche 911 Turbo

Virpil = Ferrari F8

 

The Boxster is "worse" than the other two in many ways, but it's still a great car.

 

S.

 

I am still trying to make up my mind about this.

I am actually not in NEED, right now. It's just when seeing the WH on sale that I got tempted. 

So far I am only flying WWII aircrafts and the perfect throttle for me would probably be something from GVL or Kanttorin. I really like that look and design, but because of the circumstances in Ukraine I assume that it's impossible to get something like that right now.

 

I agree on what you are saying that we don't always need to have the Ferrari F8, even a Volvo would be great for most things. BUT if you still would buy the Ferrari F8 at the end, it's cheaper to go for it right away, instead of going the upgrade route, Volvo-BMW-Porsche-Ferrari.

I have also read about the slew-control problems many seam to have. That 70 euro is also something you must calculate in the cost if wanting that upgrade. Another issue I have with the WH is that it's designed for a specific aircraft. Great if flying the A-10 Thunderbolt but not optimal for WWII birds.

All these decisions makes me go nuts!!!?

[1Sascha]

4 hours ago, Customizer171 said:

That 70 euro is also something you must calculate in the cost if wanting that upgrade.

I'd agree if I really needed it. So far, it's doing fine as a button. I tried to use it in a different game just to zoom the in-game map in and out and even that was too much for the damn thing, lol. I'm currently contemplating a GPU upgrade (possibly PSU as well if I go 3080) plus the Gunfighter or Virpil T50/Constellation look mighty tempting. So I think I'll hold off on the slew upgrade for now. But I guess once I get back into DCS, I'll be ordering that thing quicker than you could say "Thrustmaster" ... ?

 

 

[dburne]

34 minutes ago, 1Sascha said:

I'd agree if I really needed it. So far, it's doing fine as a button. I tried to use it in a different game just to zoom the in-game map in and out and even that was too much for the damn thing, lol. I'm currently contemplating a GPU upgrade (possibly PSU as well if I go 3080) plus the Gunfighter or Virpil T50/Constellation look mighty tempting. So I think I'll hold off on the slew upgrade for now. But I guess once I get back into DCS, I'll be ordering that thing quicker than you could say "Thrustmaster" ... ?

 

 

 

Yeah having a good TDC slew is very essential for DCS.