Dev comms?

[No.23_Starling]

Any word from the devs on not only the on-going (years) wing issues but also now the absurd nose over deaths and gun jams? We're going further backwards.

Dva/DXII/SE5a still melting, and now I'm dying on landings tamer than ones I've walked away from in a Warrior III.

 

 

NB that's actual landings in real fields.

[Russkly]

I think their focus is on getting BoN and then FC II out.

 

Haven't seen anything official about any of of the gripes you mention above, not even that they are accepted as being issues.

[No.23_Starling]

19 minutes ago, Russkly said:

I think their focus is on getting BoN and then FC II out.

 

Haven't seen anything official about any of of the gripes you mention above, not even that they are accepted as being issues.

Exactly. Not an acknowledgement. Wing DM was said to be on the list after drop tanks, but I’ve not seen anything on the nose overs.

[RNAS10_Mitchell]

2 hours ago, US103_Rummell said:

Exactly. Not an acknowledgement. Wing DM was said to be on the list after drop tanks, but I’ve not seen anything on the nose overs.

Well, it's really hard to enjoy the game without drop tanks..?

 

Misfires/gun jams were acknowledged once to my knowledge after the recent update, but haven't heard a word since.

[BMA_Hellbender]

Actually you can kill yourself from pulling out of a dive too hard now.

 

Thankfully it affects WW2, so chances of it being looked at sooner or later are pretty high. I still think it's worth waiting for more wing fixes to revisit FC.

[US41_Low]

lol

[ST_Catchov]

On 8/1/2022 at 10:53 PM, RNAS10_Mitchell said:

Well, it's really hard to enjoy the game without drop tanks..?

 

Sure, drop tanks are dead sexy and size does matter. No argument there. But it means nothing if the Se5a ain't fixed. And the Jug apparently.

 

 

 

[Zooropa_Fly]

26 minutes ago, ST_Catchov said:

Sure, drop tanks are dead sexy and size does matter.

 

I still think that P51 will struggle..

[No.23_Starling]

A recent example. If another person tells me I need to get better at being careful I’d point to a previous 120 streak. Tiny lift of the nose at 2G.

 

If the most experienced of us are struggling this must be awful for new pilots and can’t be good for retention of players.

[J99_Sizzlorr]

Get better at being careful

[No.23_Starling]

16 minutes ago, J99_Sizzlorr said:

Get better at being careful

Hahaha you’ve already told me that! As has “I can dogfight with the Se5” Wellington. No 100 kills streaks with the Se5 yet though

[J99_Sizzlorr]

20 minutes ago, US103_Rummell said:

Hahaha you’ve already told me that! As has “I can dogfight with the Se5” Wellington. No 100 kills streaks with the Se5 yet though

I am just pulling your leg. I am thinking it is not only gforces that affect the wings in a pull up like yours but also air resistance. Do you know the wind strength of the mission?

Get in your car (preferably on a german Autobahn) and drive like 200 km/h, lower your window and stick your hand outside. You will feel a concidarable push by the air resistance if your fingers are close together and you hand palm faces in the driving direction. Now play around with the angle a little bit and you  will notice a diffrence depending on the angle of your wrist. But keep your eyes on the road ?

Edited August 10, 2022 by J99_Sizzlorr

[No.23_Starling]

I’ve flown Tiger Moths with open cockpits so know what 100+ mph feels like when you put your head into the wind without goggles. Have you? The Dr1 in FC would keep its wings on in this situation as would the Diiia and DVII. Find me 1x source that says the Diiia was known for having very strong wings either in the data or in anecdote comparatively. If the Se5 is correct then there’s something wrong with the Diiia.
 

Either way it still needs to be looked at and it’s still driving away players or seeing them not return (pretty much my whole squad).

 

All I’m asking for is a timeline. There’s been nothing for months.

[J99_Sizzlorr]

Again I am not saying it is correct how it is I just want to put air resistance into the equation because very little is known about your little video besides the 2G pull up you mentioned all other numbers you give are referring to streaks you had and other people didn't. There is no information about dive speed, previous damage, wind strength and so on. No need to get competetive again.

Edited August 10, 2022 by J99_Sizzlorr

[BMA_Hellbender]

Sopwith Dolphin:

[No.23_Starling]

Being competitive is good for getting streaks! ? Unless the wind was very strong (you’re server admin) I’d be surprised if this is the main reason for the frequent wing failures in only half the planeset. I’ll try and recreate this tonight in a Diiia - I bet you 10 EUR the wings stay on in a shallow dive and 2G pull at about 170 kph.

Incidentally, that Dr1 ripped off a wing and still fought on with aerobatics vs several opponents and tons of damage. Find me some sources that talk about that ever happening. No problem there though. Perhaps I should start a thread called “find evidence that the Dr1 and DVII regularly took 2x the punishment of other types and lost wings but could still fight on like a War Thunder noob. That’ll be a short thread. Nitpicking on something like wind speed is a specious line of argument and distraction from a bigger issue.

 

Besides, all I’m asking for is an update on timelines

[J99_Sizzlorr]

Again you react as if I said that everything is fine. As you don't give any more information about it, I have to guess the cause of it. And I guess that you were damaged in a previous engagement, because only your right side of the wings collapse.

[No.23_Starling]

I think the parser said there was a hit. All bracing wire was intact and no shaking etc. wouldn’t have happened in the diiia… 

 

Back to the original thread - would be great to hear from 1C about their pipeline of work so I can stop weeping.

[HagarTheHorrible]

6 hours ago, J99_Sizzlorr said:

I am just pulling your leg. I am thinking it is not only gforces that affect the wings in a pull up like yours but also air resistance. Do you know the wind strength of the mission?

Get in your car (preferably on a german Autobahn) and drive like 200 km/h, lower your window and stick your hand outside. You will feel a concidarable push by the air resistance if your fingers are close together and you hand palm faces in the driving direction. Now play around with the angle a little bit and you  will notice a diffrence depending on the angle of your wrist. But keep your eyes on the road ?

 

You're quite right to make reference to this, but it plays absolutely zilch part in FC.  The Se5a and Spad VII-XIII had very well designed wings that provided a good balance between strength, weight and stiffness, the last element being pretty much completely absent within FC's 'strength' calculations.  It's a bit like saying a car is just a car and totally ignoring the details that seperate a luxury car, such as a high end Merc, from a Trabant.

[J99_Sizzlorr]

36 minutes ago, HagarTheHorrible said:

 

You're quite right to make reference to this, but it plays absolutely zilch part in FC.  The Se5a and Spad VII-XIII had very well designed wings that provided a good balance between strength, weight and stiffness, the last element being pretty much completely absent within FC's 'strength' calculations.  It's a bit like saying a car is just a car and totally ignoring the details that seperate a luxury car, such as a high end Merc, from a Trabant.

So you say air resistance is not modeled in FC? Following your logic then the S.E.5as wing in the video would have broken at 2G even with lower airspeed?

Edited August 10, 2022 by J99_Sizzlorr

[Cynic_Al]

10 hours ago, US103_Rummell said:

Either way it still needs to be looked at and it’s still driving away players or seeing them not return (pretty much my whole squad).

 

 

This exact situation has existed throughtout RoF, which ranks it as an established feature.

[SeaW0lf]

11 hours ago, Cynic_Al said:

This exact situation has existed throughtout RoF, which ranks it as an established feature.

 

That is not true. For the first two years of IL-2 Flying Circus, there were no such problems. There was not even shaking. Planes started shaking only after structural damage, broken struts, mangled wings and such. It was that good. I don't tire to say, first week in FC and everyone was mentioning these things on chat.

 

This, combined with precise gunnery, made FC becomes known for its gunnery and damage model. Lots of people migrated from ROF to FC exactly for that reason. Even Mamo showed up in 2020 (lol). That's the reason Flugpark became so packed at the start of 2020 that we were anticipating a second server to accommodate all the players, because in general you could not logout during the Sunday mission because it would be hard to find a spot to login back. During week days, it was starting to often have 40+ players at prime time.

 

So no, it was not an 'established feature' for who played FC since the start. It was an old ROF feature, super-questioned and that was fixed with FC. For some unknown reason it was brought back on March 2020 and the server emptied, especially after the control cables updates and such. Now I fly the Dr.1, get a few shots and the plane starts to shake like it is made of Lego blocks?

 

Not trying to bash, but this is what happened. It has to be said. We are waiting for a couple years now. I hope the fix comes soon.

Edited August 11, 2022 by SeaW0lf

[Cynic_Al]

2 hours ago, SeaW0lf said:

There was not even shaking. Planes started shaking only after structural damage, broken struts, mangled wings and such. It was that good. I don't tire to say, first week in FC and everyone was mentioning these things on chat.

 

Well if something did change, the infallible devs must have considered it necessary.  Consequently, if someone were to express a view along the lines of "we're stuck with paper wings for life on some of these planes", I think I would struggle to disagree.

[BMA_Hellbender]

1 hour ago, Cynic_Al said:

Well if something did change, the infallible devs must have considered it necessary.  Consequently, if someone were to express a view along the lines of "we're stuck with paper wings for life on some of these planes", I think I would struggle to disagree.

 

They're not infallible, which is why the ask is to have some input from the devs. It's not unreasonable to know what their plans are, seeing how drastically FC has changed over the years because of damage model and pilot physics changes, whereas RoF had a pretty stable DM throughout.

 

Since collector planes are coming our way and Vol 3+4 is basically confirmed, it's safe to say there will be further development on FC, which cannot be said about RoF. Whether this development solves the issue of paper wings on some planes (S.E.5a, Dolphin) and near-unbreakable wings on others (Pfalz D.IIIa, Dr.I) is not a certainty, though.

 

Of course over the years many people are losing interest to play multiplayer, myself included, but with no real competition on the market (except for going back to RoF) fixes may take a while to happen, if they happen at all.

[ST_Catchov]

On 8/11/2022 at 12:18 AM, US103_Rummell said:

Incidentally, that Dr1 ripped off a wing and still fought on with aerobatics vs several opponents and tons of damage.

 

I lol every time I see this. But I have never seen any complaint from DR1 jocks nor comment from the devs on this arcade feature. It's kind of odd but not unexpected.

[Zooropa_Fly]

I see no reason a Dr1 can't keep flying with a few bits of measly wing missing !

[Trooper117]

Sometimes I read threads like this and just feel downright fed up... we know there are problems, they take forever to get fixed (if at all), and me, being a SP chap, who also loves the WWI scene, and guess what?... yet again, I'm led to firmly believe that the single player and the WWI side are right at the bottom of the list for any kind of progress.

 

Yes we know that the small team can only stay focused on getting the Normandy thing finished, but then we all know what happens next... the next IL2 GB project is released and that goes full steam ahead and the same thing happens again... ?

[JGr2/J5_Klugermann]

On 8/11/2022 at 5:58 AM, SeaW0lf said:

 

Now I fly the Dr.1, get a few shots and the plane starts to shake like it is made of Lego blocks?

 

Not trying to bash, but this is what happened. It has to be said. We are waiting for a couple years now. I hope the fix comes soon.

 

Has the shaking ever killed the pilot ?

[kendo]

DM fixes incoming in next update 5.001 - see latest dev diary

 

Two weeks  ?

Edited August 19, 2022 by kendo

[No.23_Starling]

1 hour ago, kendo said:

DM fixes incoming in next update 5.001 - see latest dev diary

 

Two weeks  ?

Yeah just read that. Nothing specific around FC’s wings though. The problems started with a main update, presumably focused on the ww2 modules. Hopefully the new system will have been beta tested by those in this community too.

[BMA_Hellbender]

Fingers crossed for stronger Pfalz wings. I’m pretty sure we’re this [ ] close to being able to kill ourselves with G forces without the plane even breaking apart.

[RNAS10_Mitchell]

Sounds like they are putting a lot of effort/hours into global DM reworking.   I'm optimistic.  

Edited August 19, 2022 by RNAS10_Mitchell

[JGr2/J5_Hotlead]

This seems to be a comprehensive deep dive into the DM. I like that they’re doing this! Definitely better than patching a few planes here and there.

 

Very keen to see what they turn out! 

[RNAS10_Mitchell]

5 minutes ago, JG1_Hotlead_J10 said:

This seems to be a comprehensive deep dive into the DM. I like that they’re doing this! Definitely better than patching a few planes here and there.

 

Very keen to see what they turn out! 

100 percent agree

[ST_Catchov]

Is it WWII only? No mention of FC. I guess we wait for the update notes. Of course, I'm always a little worried about any WWII updates effect on FC. But it's at least an official acknowledgment [Dev comms] of DM issues that have been voiced for years now.

[Zooropa_Fly]

There's no mention of ww2 either ?

[US103_Baer]

On 8/20/2022 at 5:15 AM, JG1_Hotlead_J10 said:

This seems to be a comprehensive deep dive into the DM. I like that they’re doing this! Definitely better than patching a few planes here and there.

 

Very keen to see what they turn out! 

I get what you're saying Hotlead, the idea of deep, base level modeling is cool and i hope it works out too, but their record of implementing more fundamental changes and not just "adjust the airframe durability to meet player expectations", really isn't great. Pilot impact/shock model the most recent example.

 

Not forgetting that v4.005 WAS itself a move to more fundamental DM. They introduced the whole wing spar + RNG damage model. Probably works well for metal skinned, cantilevered monoplanes but braced biplanes seem to have not fit the model well at all.

When they finally patched the CL2 to show what they could do, the plane became normal again. 

 

Regardless of the model used, it has to make sense when you fly, make sense historically, and work for all the planes.

 

Fingers crossed. I mean it couldn't get  worse...right?

Edited August 24, 2022 by US103_Baer

[ST_Catchov]

We'll need a DM Discussion category in Developer Assistance now. 

[NO.20_Krispy_Duck]

I like to think of it as a stealth promotion for CLOD/Tobruk and DCS.