Getting the P-51B and D up to its rated service ceiling.

[--[---MAILMAN----]

Several times I have attempted to get to the service ceiling, 41,200 ft. for both the P-51B-5 (V-1650-3) and P-51D-15 (V-1650-7) just because I wanted to try.

 

I got to 40,000+ ft. in the B & 38,000+ in the D.  I could go no higher.

Even though my RPM is set to 2700 RPM and the M.A.P. is maxed out around 30: Hg.  The planes overheat suddenly, coolant being the issue.  I lower the throttle and/or RPM and I lose altitude.  I tried flying level to build up the airspeed, but the coolant temperatures don't drop.

I even switched to manual operation of the oil and coolant shutters, but I couldn't get either to operate [I found out which key binds (shared with other aircraft) will operate them a few minutes ago].

 

Anybody else tried this and succeed?  What is the secret?  I can't lean the mixture in the D that I am aware.

 

Thanks

[[CPT]Crunch]

What map are you trying it on?  Pretty sure its figured on a standard day at sea level, closest map should be Kuban spring maybe?  Or try a cold winter map where conditions should exceed the standard.

[--[---MAILMAN----]

Online Mission

Rhineland Map

March 1945

 

At 40,000 feet (7.5758 mi./12.192km) it is approximately -69.7°F/-56.5°C.  I am sure it varies, but this is darn cold.  I would have expected a problem with the engine getting too cold, not overheating especially since it was running at maximum continuous power and never at military, combat or emergency settings.

I have no idea if or how well the game regulates the air temperature at various altitudes. 

Edited June 27, 2022 by --[---MAILMAN----

[BlitzPig_EL]

It's lack of air density that causes overheating.  The radiator depends on airflow to work, with lower air density the radiator becomes less efficient.

 

I've seen cars overheat at 0 degrees F because the front of the radiator was iced over blocking air flow.  Flow through the rad is all important.

[FTC_DerSheriff]

Open rads and raise RPM to full, no wonder you cant stay up there. And overheating usually doesnt mean a problem in the short term.

[Supercharger]

Maximum service ceiling depends on the weight of the aircraft too. I'm not sure about the P51 but in my opinion the fuel load should be reduced, especially the fuselage fuel tank. And take care about your engine selection the - 3 & - 7 have different full throttle heights, so the service ceiling can not be the same with two different engines. 

Edited July 2, 2022 by Supercharger

[--[---MAILMAN----]

Appreciate the comments.

 

I took off with the fuselage tank empty.  I burned off a lot of fuel climbing so fuel weight was not the issue, overheat was the problem.  The problem was not the ability to continue climbing at my power settings.

 

I didn't have a problem climbing to the altitude I acheived using 2700 RPM and 46" Hg and then advancing the throttle as MAP dropped to the point where the throttle could no longer be increased.  The pilot operating manual states to operate at max continous power  above 25,000 ft. instead of using higher power settings.

 

I could fly straight and level, but when I started to overheat I tried monkeying with the throttle and RPM to cool down which caused the altitude loss as was to be expected.

 

What I didn't have was the radiator operation in manual mode mapped.  What I also didn't know was that the two radiator controls for the P-51 were not listed in the key bindings, but rather included under different aircrraft, shame on the developers this is inexcusable.  No excuse for not listing every plane's controls in the UI.  I found out by reading another unrelated post about another airplane with essentially oh by the way this also controls the P-51 radiators.

 

Lots of youtube videos mention manual operation of the P-51 radiators, but I have yet to see or hear what the bindings are listed under.

 

So now that I can manually open the radiators I'll try again.

 

Oh and Sherrif I have watched  almost all if your videos especially operating the US aircraft.  I know you and your buddies hunt in packs so I am especially on the alert when you fly Axis.  ?

 

I don't think Requiem has ever mentioned which bindings are used either.

Edited July 2, 2022 by --[---MAILMAN----
spelling

[BlitzPig_EL]

So, what are the Mustang's radiator manual key binds?

 

I've never used them in my normal combat flying, as it hasn't been necessary.

[--[---MAILMAN----]

BlitzPig_EL,

 

First you have to:

Switch Oil Radiator Control Mode: Manual/Auto

Switch Water Radiator Control Mode: Manual Auto

 

Then to operate the oil and Water/Coolant shutters:

Oil

HE 111, BF110 Oil Radiator Open One Step

HE 111, BF110 Oil Radiator Close One Step

Not sure if you map a joystick/throttle axis it will apply to the P-51.  I have a CH Fighter Stick USB, CH Pro Throttle USB, CH Pro Pedals USB.

 

Coolant

BF109/110 British Aircraft Water Radiator Open

BF109/110 British Aircraft Water Radiator Close

Not sure if you map a joystick/throttle axis it will apply to the P-51.  I have a CH Fighter Stick USB, CH Pro Throttle USB, CH Pro Pedals USB.

 

Developers must consider the P-51 a British Aircraft ? (consider this a proverbial Easter egg that you have to find for this game) since North American originally designed it for them instead of building P-40's under license.

 

Don't understand why the developers could not add P-51 to the text like they did with the planes mentioned above.  The P-47 is listed for specific bindings for the intercooler, oil and cowl flaps.

 

I have heard some players mention on you tube to get the maximum speed of the P-51 in a pinch to get out of guns range of those elephant guns the Axis have to change to manual operation of the oil and radiator flaps/doors and close them to be more streamlined for and extra few MPH.  I never have switched to manual operation always leaving them in auto for the P-51.  I will try to get to the service ceiling in both planes again now that I know how to open them manually.  The coolant, not the oil, was my limiting factor.

 

I was online when I tried and external views were off (didn't think to record sorry) so I don't know what the position of the radiators were when I overheated.

 

Edited July 2, 2022 by --[---MAILMAN----
added to comments

[--[---MAILMAN----]

Well still no luck.

 

Max I can get to is 40,100 feet.

 

At this altitude I was down to 80 US Gallons/302 liters of fuel when I was at 40,100 feet and when the engine seized.

Took off with 155.8 US Gallons/590 Liters

Used the V-1650-3 Packard Engine at 100 Octane (150 of either type locked out by mission builder).  This engine allowed for max speed to be reached at 29,000 feet compared to the V-1650-7 which topped out at 25,000 feet.

 

Coolant was under the the maximum desired temperature the entire time, adjusting the shutter open when the desired and max temperature were reached.  Once opened enough temperature was in the normal range.

 

Oil Temperature was under the desired temperature the entire time, adjusting the shutter open and closed.  This temp stayed below the max desired temperature even with this shutter completely closed, high temperature never became the issue.

 

Once the overheat warning (thermometer) came on I could not clear it even after reducing throttle and propeller RPM and  diving to build up airspeed and opening all radiator shutters.  Engine seized.  Seems once the timer starts there is no stopping it.

 

The only items I didn't think to check was carburetor Air (which I don't know how to control) or changed the mixture to auto-rich.  I flew to 40,100 ft. at maximum continuous settings, 2700 RPM and 46" Hg albeit above 30,000 feet I could not maintain 46" Hg., it steadily dropped to around 30" Hg when I got to 40,000 ft.  If I increased the RPM to 3000 the manifold pressure rose to around 36" Hg, but then I started to get combat power warnings and temp warnings in techno chat.  If I set it to 2800 RPM continuous operation appeared in techno chat.  No matter what the RPM or MAP was used I topped out at 40,100 feet about 1100 feet shy of the listed service ceiling.

 

If someone gets to 41,200 feet please post how you did it with either the P-51B-5 or P-51D-15.

Edited July 2, 2022 by --[---MAILMAN----
spelling/grammar

[[CPT]Crunch]

Might there be some instrument error built into the altimeter?  I've noticed many altimeters can lag and are often highly mismatched with the games HUD read out.

[357th_KW]

The HUD readout is AGL for some reason.

[MisterSmith]

43 minutes ago, 357th_KW said:

The HUD readout is AGL for some reason.

Yes, you figure that out pretty quickly on the Kuban map with mountains. Always found that odd.

[BlitzPig_EL]

Indeed, it works like a radar altimeter.

[--[---MAILMAN----]

 

AGL?

 

 

Both of my attempts were online on Combat Box Red Flight.  Only thing the HUD gives you is compass heading and g load.  temperature, power settings and altitude information was strictly from the gauges.

If the techno chat was not on I would never have known I was even  overheating until the engine seized on me.  Temperature gauges never indicated that I exceeded those parameters.

Edited July 3, 2022 by --[---MAILMAN----

[69th_Mobile_BBQ]

I've had the P-51 D up to 36,000 (by the dashboard altimeter) already with no problems.  I found that I was doing most of the flying by micro-adjusting the trims and keeping climb to a minimum in order to keep the overall speed up.  I kept the settings from ground to that alt at 46" and 2700rpm until I was high enough to just full throttle it and still lose manifold pressure.  I'm sure it can break 40,000 easily with a little more time and effort.

[357th_KW]

Available boost is related to engine RPM, as the supercharger is driven off the engine.  If you run the engine at 3000 RPM, more manifold pressure will be available above critical altitude.