Snipe and SSW D.IV

[Russkly]

Interested in others' views of the impending release of these collectors' planes, although I apologise, if this topic has already been dealt with previously.

 

As a purely offline player, much as I am keen to support everything in the IL2 'universe', I can't see myself buying two a/c that had such a late and limited operational impact.

 

A PWCG campaign (which is how I play IL2 FC/BoS) with either a/c will simply not last long enough to warrant the investment.

 

So, I feel torn: don't buy them because they are, frankly, not going to contribute much to how I play IL2 FC but realise that this may divert 1C resources away from further FC development due to lack of commercial return; or buy them to show and encourage love for future FC iterations, and simply not really use the planes.

 

Not trying to be polemic, and this is purely my personal view, but I would like to understand how others, esp. offline players, are looking at these collectors' aircraft.

[Zooropa_Fly]

Hey Russkly,

 

It's all personal choice, so I wouldn't beat yourself up about it.

As it happens I've not bought them yet either.

 

What most of us spend our $ on at this time in history should be carefully considered.

And will there be any electricity to play computer games by the time they're released ?

 

Of course it's still highly likely, if not a certainty that I'll end up buying them soon !

 

S!

[=LD=Brazo]

I’m buying the Snipe as it’s the only plane likely to match the current German scouts! 
 

But it’s not your responsibility to keep 1c afloat (not mine) so don’t sweat it!

Edited June 24, 2022 by 76SQN-Brazo

[Russkly]

You're both right of course.

 

@76SQN-BrazoAre you going to be using the Snipe online or offline? Or both? And, if offline, in Quick Missions or in what will inevitably be a short career mode?

 

I know my decision won't influence any of this, which is why I was interested in hearing the views of the community.

 

I just don't really understand why they chose 2 aircraft that would have such limited appeal to the career mode community, and I hope that any eventual commercial disappointment (and I sincerely hope that doesn't happen) doesn't influence future FC investment.

 

 

[BMA_Hellbender]

It will be interesting to see what a WWI plane developed in 2022 flies like. The rest of what we have are remasters with warts and all ported over.

[=LD=Bulldog*]

Agreed, Brazo. Looking forwards to the Sopwith Snipe.

 

Bulldog

[JGr2/J5_Klugermann]

I will most likely not be purchasing (sugar daddy you know who you are) as I consider my self to be a samurai only flying Albies against superior Entente machines.

 

I was considering gifting one to Adam but he informed me that he has died.

[SYN_Vander]

Buy m if you think you’ll have fun with them.

It’s fascinating to see we have so very different kind of players: Solely offline, only flying careers, the “what if I did this” kind of players and the solely online players.

I’m somewhere in the middle. I don’t fly long careers, although I do like the odd campaign. I also fly online with my buddies once or twice a week. There is no substitute for online to experience the thrill of a dogfight.. But my offline flying is mostly flying different scenarios in different aircraft using a mission generator. So I will definitely have fun with these late war machines even without a long career.

[Russkly]

14 hours ago, SYN_Vander said:

Buy m if you think you’ll have fun with them.

It’s fascinating to see we have so very different kind of players: Solely offline, only flying careers, the “what if I did this” kind of players and the solely online players.

I’m somewhere in the middle. I don’t fly long careers, although I do like the odd campaign. I also fly online with my buddies once or twice a week. There is no substitute for online to experience the thrill of a dogfight.. But my offline flying is mostly flying different scenarios in different aircraft using a mission generator. So I will definitely have fun with these late war machines even without a long career.

 

You're right - people enjoy IL2 in many different ways, and that's a positive.

 

I hope that 1C continues to manage to appeal to that diverse consumer base.

[=LD=Brazo]

18 hours ago, Russkly said:

You're both right of course.

 

@76SQN-BrazoAre you going to be using the Snipe online or offline? Or both? And, if offline, in Quick Missions or in what will inevitably be a short career mode?

 

I know my decision won't influence any of this, which is why I was interested in hearing the views of the community.

 

I just don't really understand why they chose 2 aircraft that would have such limited appeal to the career mode community, and I hope that any eventual commercial disappointment (and I sincerely hope that doesn't happen) doesn't influence future FC investment.

 

 

Mainly online with some quick mission practice offline. I doubt given how late war the plane is it will find its way into the flugpark server on a frequent rotation. That said the current vanilla D7 is a very late war bird and the F version was introduced as the whistle went and they are regulars on Flugpark so I’m hoping!

[BMA_Hellbender]

8 hours ago, 76SQN-Brazo said:

Mainly online with some quick mission practice offline. I doubt given how late war the plane is it will find its way into the flugpark server on a frequent rotation. That said the current vanilla D7 is a very late war bird and the F version was introduced as the whistle went and they are regulars on Flugpark so I’m hoping!

 

I highly doubt that they wouldn't come into frequent rotation: typically the later the planeset and better the planes, the more popular the server is. Plus people will want to fly their collector plane purchase online.

 

The Snipe should make a fine addition to the Entente roster: it won't be as maneuverable as the Camel, nor as fast as the Dolphin (though FC's Dolphin is a tad slow), but it should outclimb even the SPAD XIII, the current best climber on Entente, to almost rival the Fokker D.VIIF. To put this into perspective: it should easily beat the climb rate of the Nieuport 28, which in 1C's rendition is a failed rotary SPAD. It will be good, but unless there are other factors involved such as wing strength, I don't expect that the Snipe will automatically become the best/most popular plane on Entente. It's hard to beat the SPAD, S.E.5a and even Bristol Fighter F.III in terms of speed/armament/survivability, or the Camel in terms of dogfighting ability.

 

The Siemens-Schuckert, now that thing scares me. On paper it's almost flawless: outmaneuvers and outclimbs the Fokker D.VIIF, even with full altitude throttle at sea level. Its only vice is its somewhat unremarkable top speed, comparable to a Camel. Likely a mix of SPADs, S.E.5as, Snipes, Camels and Bristol Fighters will be needed to overcome these. I do suspect it will become the best/most popular plane on Central, which is fine, as long as they face them in small numbers. Considering how few of them operated and how often their engines would seize, it makes sense that they would be limited. Unless 1C themselves pull a "Nieuport 28" and somehow make it horrible because it had engine vices unrelated to its performance. But I don't think that will happen with the Siemens, they have to sell copies after all.

 

?

[Russkly]

All interesting points.

 

So, clearly the Snipe and the SSW D.IV are a sop(with!) to the online community given those planes' negligible operational impact in WW1.

 

Fair enough. 1C understands their market and who plays how.

 

Just a bit of a shame for career mode types like me, but, as I said, 1C understands their customer base better than I ever will.

 

Here's hoping for a Pup and a D.III amongst others to take the timeline back a little and continue to add value to the career side of things.

 

But regardless, enjoy all of you - it is a wonderful game!

[BMA_Hellbender]

3 hours ago, Russkly said:

All interesting points.

 

So, clearly the Snipe and the SSW D.IV are a sop(with!) to the online community given those planes' negligible operational impact in WW1.

 

Fair enough. 1C understands their market and who plays how.

 

Just a bit of a shame for career mode types like me, but, as I said, 1C understands their customer base better than I ever will.

 

Here's hoping for a Pup and a D.III amongst others to take the timeline back a little and continue to add value to the career side of things.

 

But regardless, enjoy all of you - it is a wonderful game!

 

In terms of collector planes, they are logical choices, unless we're talking about re-releasing some of the old RoF planes as collectors instead of in a volume? I don't think that will happen, though. The Pup, D.III and Nieuport 17 will all likely be part of Volume 3/4.

 

I would still love to see a Fokker D.VII 200hp and SPAD XIII 240hp as collector.

[Russkly]

Ah, I think I had failed to understand the whole concept of 'Collectors' Planes'.

 

They are (generally although not exclusively) rarer types and not necessarily intended as mainstays of the various plane sets for either offline career or online use.

 

Presumably they are useful little revenue generators for 1C between the main releases.

 

As they say. "RTFM!"...

[=LD=Brazo]

I do understand these have been built from the ground up rather than rof ports so I am excited! Maybe we’ll even get wing textures that aren’t from 2005 ?

[Avimimus]

Some of my thoughts:

 

 

 

On 6/24/2022 at 3:45 AM, Russkly said:

Interested in others' views of the impending release of these collectors' planes, although I apologise, if this topic has already been dealt with previously.

 

As a purely offline player, much as I am keen to support everything in the IL2 'universe', I can't see myself buying two a/c that had such a late and limited operational impact.

 

A PWCG campaign (which is how I play IL2 FC/BoS) with either a/c will simply not last long enough to warrant the investment.

 

So, I feel torn: don't buy them because they are, frankly, not going to contribute much to how I play IL2 FC but realise that this may divert 1C resources away from further FC development due to lack of commercial return; or buy them to show and encourage love for future FC iterations, and simply not really use the planes.

 

Not trying to be polemic, and this is purely my personal view, but I would like to understand how others, esp. offline players, are looking at these collectors' aircraft.

 

 

Well, I have some thoughts:

 

1) Most campaigns don't simulate every sortie. To keep player interest time often moves at a faster pace. So for aircraft that were only operational for four months (Fokker D.VIII, SSW D.IV, Snipe, Roland D.VI) it is possible to simply use historic sortie rates to increase the campaign length. The same thing could work for the Meteor and He-162 (albeit fuel shortages limited the sortie rates of the latter).

 

2) Any aircraft modelled to this degree of detail/fidelity will be at least somewhat interesting. As one can see in the thread I linked to - the SSW D.IV had unusual higher aspect wings which should make it unique in its handling. The Snipe also has some value in completing the Pup -> Camel -> Snipe sequence (similar to the Hurricane -> Typhoon -> Tempest sequence)... this gives insight into how engineers at the same firm kept improving their understanding throughout the war. It also lets the player fly a Sopwith career, starting with the earlier aircraft, and receiving the final upgrade at the end of it in the form of the Snipe.

 

3) That said, I agree that these high performance aircraft from the end of the war are less needed than other aircraft. For single player campaigns, slower 1916 two-seaters are probably the most needed (Voisin VIII, Caudron G.4, Morane-Saulnier L, LVG C.II or Albatros C.I) - especially once we get the Fokker E.III, Halberstadt D.II, Airco D.H.2, and Nieuport N.11. They need targets they can actually catch

 

Personal thoughts: Overall, if they return a profit which encourages further development then that is good. I honestly would enjoy the Roland D.VI as it severed in similar numbers to the SSW fighters, and for a similar time period (four months), and is a very elegant and interesting aircraft that I'd love to try. I'm fine with collector aircraft like that.

 

I think the big question is FC4... the Rise of Flight aircraft amount to only 35-38 aircraft - depending on how one counts them. So the big question is - will they do two to five aircraft to create an FC4 (and will these aircraft be useful for single-player campaigns)... or will they release the last five aircraft as 'collector aircraft'? I'm hoping they do a full FC4 module and add in the Caudron G.4, Morane Saulnier L, and an early German two-seater (either the LVG C.II, Albatros C.I, or a 'B' series with guns added as a field mod). That'd give us robust campaign play prior to June 1917... I'll probably post a thread on this.

 

 

[Sgt_Joch]

I eventually buy all the planes, so these will wind up in my hangar.

 

Now in terms of pertinence, unlike WW2, air combat in the Great War intensified right up to the end and the last weeks of October 1918 saw some of the most intense air fighting of the entire war, so there is a lot of room for historical/semi-historical missions/mini-campaigns featuring these two planes.

Edited June 26, 2022 by Sgt_Joch

[ST_Catchov]

You could say yeah buy the collectors to support future development. Or you could say yeah nah not one more cent on anything until they fix the bugs on existing crates and make your decision based on the results. All's fair in love, war and capitalism. 

[US103_Baer]

As others mentioned, the FM on the new planes is FASCINATING.

 

Everything we've had in FC till now is a retread from RoF, complete with all the compromises, experience and decisions made over a decade ago on a different game engine. 

 

I'm sure the Devs will model the Snipe and Siemens as good as they can be. But then, after we fly them and experience what's actually possible, won't it throw a massive spotlight on the modelling of other, far more significant planes? 

 

They are a smart, experienced team, and must know what's coming. So in a way, the 'whole new planes' scenario actually gives me some hope for the longer term of all the planes. 

Edited June 27, 2022 by US103_Baer

[BMA_Hellbender]

10 hours ago, US103_Baer said:

As others mentioned, the FM on the new planes is FASCINATING.

 

Everything we've had in FC till now is a retread from RoF, complete with all the compromises, experience and decisions made over a decade ago on a different game engine. 

 

I'm sure the Devs will model the Snipe and Siemens as good as they can be. But then, after we fly them and experience what's actually possible, won't it throw a massive spotlight on the modelling of other, far more significant planes? 

 

They are a smart, experienced team, and must know what's coming. So in a way, the 'whole new planes' scenario actually gives me some hope for the longer term of all the planes. 

 

Before this turns into an FM bitching thread, and rest assured, I want little more than to partake in one of those, I have to give some serious credit to the team for some of the later planes/FMs which were released in RoF.

 

Yes, yes, I'm talking about the Hanriot HD.1, which I consider to be as close to flawless as can be. The plane itself is not flawless, it's basically a late 1917 slightly more refined and powerful Nieuport 17 with a single machinegun and pretty terrible forward visibility (the Belgians often offset the machinegun to the side, but that's irrelevant here). What it does have is correct top speed (180'ish km/h), maneuverability and handling for a rotary of that era and If you pitch it against the Fokker D.VII(F), it's about as accurate a match as you can hope for. Where it used to fall flat in RoF is against the Albatros D.Va and Pfalz D.IIIa, since those planes really turn far too well and handle much too gently close to the stall and are flown like flat-turning UFOs. A rework of all these earlier planes which haven't been touched since their release more than a decade ago (Albatros, Pfalz, N28, Breguet) would be a huge boon to the sim.

[Russkly]

No, please no FM discussions!!!!!!!!

 

Anyway, I hope 1C get a good return on the Snipe and the SSW D.IV, and I very much look forward to the release of FC2 and its expanded maps and seasons, so that careers have a little more flavour.

 

And then I will look forward to hearing about plans for FC3.

 

It is a great game, however we all choose to play it.

[J5_Adam]

On 6/24/2022 at 10:08 AM, J5_Klugermann said:

I will most likely not be purchasing (sugar daddy you know who you are) as I consider my self to be a samurai only flying Albies against superior Entente machines.

 

I was considering gifting one to Adam but he informed me that he has died.

 

Nice thought Klugermann, thanks. Before I died and came back from the dead, I accidentally bought the Spitfire along with both the Snipe and SS. I don't mind even though I may ever fly the Spit because I'm supporting more possible new collector planes for WW1.

[JGr2/J5_Klugermann]

[453=SGII_Wotan]

I purchased both I fly both on and offline, I bought the Siemens because I love the plane, its only been modelled once before and I look forward to it. Id love to see the Roland as well, I never new that existed. I have ordered the Snipe as well, I know nothing about this Sopwith variation  either

 

For me Flying Circus is an education in WWI air war history and I am really looking forward to the new campaign generator

However Pat Wilson's may eclipse this completely  

[NO.20_Krispy_Duck]

I'm holding off to wait and see if there are DM/FM revisions to the game. I like the idea of the late war aircraft in some missions, but the existing issues are holding me back from putting any more money into this.