Lock map entities

[R33GZ]

Hi all, does anyone know if there is a way to lock map entities? 

 

I'm trying to make large selections and keep getting various groups caught up in my selection - it would be really handy if I could lock these groups so they don't get caught up and accidentally deleted

 

From what I can tell so far, the answer is no. I can turn things off with the filter, but in short, I need to see those relevant entities to make the selection in the first place. 

 

Any advice welcome, I'm a relative newbie to the ME

Edited June 22, 2022 by R33GZ

[Sketch]

You can group objects, and work inside specific groups. You can also save a group and delete it from the mission. (Effectively locking it.) Once you're ready to bring that group back, you just reimport it. This is why the cities, airfields, train stations, and ports group templates always reimport exactly where they should.

[DD_Friar]

When you have objects inside a group, to be able to work on that group it needs to be made the "working group". So even if you have objects in different groups at the same location, they would not get picked up as they would NOT be the group currently in focus.

 

I use this a lot when building missions. For example I might have an airfield and I will put all the defences and the associated mcu commands in a group, then create another group for the AI planes and their waypoints.

 

Hope that helps.

 

Cheers

Friar

[R33GZ]

Just got a chance to get back into it. I had wondered what 'working groups' actually meant, will give it a go, thanks. 

[jollyjack]

When and what to group is always a bit of a puzzle for me. Especially where items from various group MCUs are set to interact. 

Often i fill the description box for such events like leader planes from a flight, waypoints etc to make things clearer in a listing, and use the search and select tool.

 

If you look at a lot of IL2 factory stuff and quick mission builder generated missions, grouping is not used that much other than for non  'linked entry' map blocks.

Syn_Vander's mission generator thrives on a lot of prefab groups. Latter's generated missions also seem to run smoothly. 

 

Some times home made missions use a lot of computer power because of too many MCUs kept active in the back ground while not needed.

Pity some times is that you cannot spawn groups in and out depending on player location. Might improve mission behavior regarding work load?

 

Edited July 10, 2022 by jollyjack

[Zooropa_Fly]

2 hours ago, R33GZ said:

Just got a chance to get back into it. I had wondered what 'working groups' actually meant, will give it a go, thanks. 

 

Below is an example of how I group things.

When I start working a map, I group all the map objects together - Moscow (2) in the example.

Then, right click the main map directory (ZW The Icy Lake. (1) in this case) - and set that as the 'working group'.

Now add two or more objects / mcu's (or whatever) - highlight them - right click to group these in a new group and name group as you wish.

 

You can create groups within groups - so if you want a new one under the main directory, you have to make the main map directory the 'working group' again first.

Then repeat as per above.

 

It's good to get a handle on this early on - if you mess it up things can be a pain to find.

 

Good luck,

S!

 

[R33GZ]

It's actually one of syn vanders missions I'm working on... Modifying one of the his mission generator files.

I ended up deleting a lot of stuff and rebuilding the AI and player flight to fit my more er, simple understanding of the mission editor lol. 

 

I was a graphic designer by trade, so I guess I'm used to working in a much more visual way than code based logic. I really do think the mission editor could benefit greatly from a layer system, similar to say, Adobe illustrator. Being able to place different groups into different layers would allow the user to decluter the working environment - although, as I've just discovered getting different groups to interact with each other can be 'difficult' 

 

Thanks for the tips lads, appreciate it. I am learning, albeit slowly ?

Edited July 2, 2022 by R33GZ

[Zooropa_Fly]

Thing with ME is it was originally a dev tool, going back to RoF. It leaked into the public domain so people could make MP maps, but was never properly released as a complete, user friendly product as such. Hence it's the slightly pernickity, oft logic-defying monster that it is.

That's how the story goes anyway.

 

Having said that, it's a very powerful editor, and the support on this forum is superb.

 

And if you're not careful, it can become more addictive than sugar. 

 

S ! 

[Jade_Monkey]

After loading the templates to a blank map, the first thing I do is "Shift+A" which selects all objects in the map, and then I group them all into an object called "static".

 

It's a lot easier to work on a mission without all the static objects getting on your way.

 

I actually saved all maps with the static objects grouped already into a folder as a blank mission, so they are ready to go every time I want to create a new one.

 

[Zooropa_Fly]

7 minutes ago, Jade_Monkey said:

I actually saved all maps with the static objects grouped already into a folder as a blank mission, so they are ready to go every time I want to create a new one.

 

Damn - that's a great idea S!

[R33GZ]

8 hours ago, Jade_Monkey said:

I actually saved all maps with the static objects grouped already into a folder as a blank mission, so they are ready to go every time I want to create a new one.

 

I have done this as well... This is one of the things that made me ponder the question of can groups be locked. I've had a mission half made and accidentally moved that one main group and put ALL cities, airfields, bridges, ports, railways stations out of whack. REALLY frustrating, I ended up deleting and reimporting all the template objects 

[Zooropa_Fly]

Yeah, but we've all done it.. probably more than once ?

[IckyATLAS]

On 7/5/2022 at 12:50 AM, R33GZ said:

I have done this as well... This is one of the things that made me ponder the question of can groups be locked. I've had a mission half made and accidentally moved that one main group and put ALL cities, airfields, bridges, ports, railways stations out of whack. REALLY frustrating, I ended up deleting and reimporting all the template objects 

And it is at that moment that you search desperately for the UNDO button, and oh surprise it does not exist. That button is worth gold. We could have spared so many hours if we had it. But no sadly it will never come.

[Habu]

On 7/4/2022 at 3:59 PM, Jade_Monkey said:

After loading the templates to a blank map, the first thing I do is "Shift+A" which selects all objects in the map, and then I group them all into an object called "static".

 

It's a lot easier to work on a mission without all the static objects getting on your way.

 

I actually saved all maps with the static objects grouped already into a folder as a blank mission, so they are ready to go every time I want to create a new one.

 

I do the the same for each one (airfield, city, etc...) and save it as e new template for future mission.

 

 

 

 

Be carefull when you create the group to not move it, because if you did that, all the objects of the group will move. A lock option will be welecome to avoid to move static group.

 

The command to select alll the objet on a map is Control + A (it's the same shortkey that windows use to select files)for selecting all the object on the map.

[IckyATLAS]

On 7/2/2022 at 10:46 PM, R33GZ said:

 

I was a graphic designer by trade, so I guess I'm used to working in a much more visual way than code based logic. I really do think the mission editor could benefit greatly from a layer system, similar to say, Adobe illustrator. Being able to place different groups into different layers would allow the user to decluter the working environment - although, as I've just discovered getting different groups to interact with each other can be 'difficult' 

 

 

You do not have the layer system but you can make things invisible. So if the idea is to declutter the map this can be done using the Draw Selection and Tool Selection.

In Draw you can chose which link types, Icons, or Text to display or not, and with Tools you have the Object Filter that allows you again to display or not the icons of each object type. 

Working with intragroup links is not really an issue or difficult, as you have enough tools to do that efficiently with the very powerful and versatile Search and Select tool, as well as the target and object link lists in each linked object that allow you to work across all groups and working groups. All these tools that can be very efficient IF your naming conventions are clear logic and coherent across all your mission or missions in a campaign.

 

The only way you can simulate layers is in a particular case with Top Level Groups that have no links between them. In that particular case you can (once you have exported them) delete them and the reimport them. But beware if they have links between them then those links are all lost. There can be also issues with altitudes that can get messed up with ground effects, or chimney smokes that are effects with an altitude.

 

[AEthelraedUnraed]

23 hours ago, IckyATLAS said:

Working with intragroup links is not really an issue or difficult, as you have enough tools to do that efficiently with the very powerful and versatile Search and Select tool, as well as the target and object link lists in each linked object that allow you to work across all groups and working groups. All these tools that can be very efficient IF your naming conventions are clear logic and coherent across all your mission or missions in a campaign.

You mean you've found a way to object-link or target-link objects across groups? I just tried out the Search and Select tool, but I can't figure out how to get any found objects into the linked objects list of another object. Mind sharing how you do this?

 

23 hours ago, IckyATLAS said:

You do not have the layer system but you can make things invisible. So if the idea is to declutter the map this can be done using the Draw Selection and Tool Selection.

In Draw you can chose which link types, Icons, or Text to display or not, and with Tools you have the Object Filter that allows you again to display or not the icons of each object type.

Yes, but you can only set visibility based on object type. I often have e.g. many CheckZones all at approximately the same place, but spread across different layers. Making all CheckZones invisible doesn't work, since I've got other CheckZones within my current layer that I need to be able to see.

[No_85_Gramps]

5 hours ago, AEthelraedUnraed said:

You mean you've found a way to object-link or target-link objects across groups? I just tried out the Search and Select tool, but I can't figure out how to get any found objects into the linked objects list of another object. Mind sharing how you do this?

 

 

This may not be the easiest, or the best, way. If you make note of the ID # you want from within the other group, you can find it that way when you click on find object/find target.

Edited September 2, 2022 by No_85_Gramps

[AEthelraedUnraed]

16 hours ago, No_85_Gramps said:

This may not be the easiest, or the best, way. If you make note of the ID # you want from within the other group, you can find it that way when you click on find object/find target.

Nope, that only works for linked objects such as vehicles. What I'm looking for is a way to link MCUs across groups. I often work with groups roughly corresponding to "functions" or "classes" in most generic programming languages, and then use linked Counter MCUs (could just as well be Timers) for inter-group communication.

 

E.g. I might have a group "Bombers", which contains all the waypoints and logic to make a group of bombers spawn, fly a path and attack a target. I then have a Counter MCU called "Spawn Bombers" outside of this group that links to the spawner inside of the group. I then trigger this "Spawn Bombers" if for instance the player reaches a certain waypoint. I might also have for instance an "OnBomberKilled" Counter MCU outside of the group, that is triggered whenever a bomber is killed and that I can then use outside of the group to, for instance, give a Mission Success if the player's task was to intercept the bomber.

 

This works pretty well and helps a lot to keep missions structured. However, it does require me to have a couple of inter-group links between MCUs, and that requires me to do a whole lot of un-grouping and re-grouping whenever I want to add or change another inter-group link.

[IckyATLAS]

On 9/2/2022 at 5:12 PM, AEthelraedUnraed said:

You mean you've found a way to object-link or target-link objects across groups? I just tried out the Search and Select tool, but I can't figure out how to get any found objects into the linked objects list of another object. Mind sharing how you do this?

 

Here a screenshot sequence to explain how to be fast in doing this.

The following example is how to target link one object, a 61k AAA unit on the Gelendzhik-1 Airfield (Kuban Map) that is in a group four level deep, to another object which is a Fake Vehicle (Acting as AAA airfield command) in a group three level deep at that is on the Myskhako Airfield, well far from the previous object.

But this way of doing works with whatever objects you want. With MCU it is even quicker as you can use the target and object lists and you even do not need to click on one object on the map. Lists can be huge for complex missions and this is why the naming protocol is so important. You can then have them ordered and listed in alphabetical order if you wish. But it is sometimes better to leave as is because the last elements in the list are those that have ben the last created and generally also the ones you work on. 

 

Step 1 Selecting the 61k AAA unit

You work on the mission tree and you select the object (You need to open the mission tree and go down the groups and open the Artillery unit group you want to work on, and then click on the object (in the tree) and automatically its group will become active and the object will be highlighted on the map as selected. Then you do a Shift-T to create a target link connection. Up to here you do not need any work on the map. In the picture below the Mouse Arrow and the Target arrow text does not appear. I used the PrintScreen key and the overlayed arrow and text are not registered.

 

 

Step 2 Selecting the target to be linked

This time you do the same on the mission tree and go to the group containing the object. A small detail here, you must make the group containing the object you want to click on, the working group. It is not automatic because you have already the previous group active and an object already selected. But here be careful not to select the object otherwise the Target Link action that is bound to the previously selected object will be canceled. You do not see it but here there is the arrow with Target text that is near to this object name Myskhako AAA Leader at the left of the image.

 

 

 

Step 3 Link the object

Just click the arrow onto the unselected object that is active as it is in the working group. The link is created.

 

 

In case you do not see the link well, here under without the map. An you can see that the link goes directly to the other object on the map.

 

 

Edited September 5, 2022 by IckyATLAS

[AEthelraedUnraed]

1 hour ago, IckyATLAS said:

 

Here a screenshot sequence to explain how to be fast in doing this.

The following example is how to target link one object, a 61k AAA unit on the Gelendzhik-1 Airfield (Kuban Map) that is in a group four level deep, to another object which is a Fake Vehicle (Acting as AAA airfield command) in a group three level deep at that is on the Myskhako Airfield, well far from the previous object.

But this way of doing works with whatever objects you want. With MCU it is even quicker as you can use the target and object lists and you even do not need to click on one object on the map. Lists can be huge for complex missions and this is why the naming protocol is so important. You can then have them ordered and listed in alphabetical order if you wish. But it is sometimes better to leave as is because the last elements in the list are those that have ben the last created and generally also the ones you work on. 

 

Step 1 Selecting the 61k AAA unit

You work on the mission tree and you select the object (You need to open the mission tree and go down the groups and open the Artillery unit group you want to work on, and then click on the object (in the tree) and automatically its group will become active and the object will be highlighted on the map as selected. Then you do a Shift-T to create a target link connection. Up to here you do not need any work on the map. In the picture below the Mouse Arrow and the Target arrow text does not appear. I used the PrintScreen key and the overlayed arrow and text are not registered.

 

 

Step 2 Selecting the target to be linked

This time you do the same on the mission tree and go to the group containing the object. A small detail here, you must make the group containing the object you want to click on, the working group. It is not automatic because you have already the previous group active and an object already selected. But here be careful not to select the object otherwise the Target Link action that is bound to the previously selected object will be canceled. You do not see it but here there is the arrow with Target text that is near to this object name Myskhako AAA Leader at the left of the image.

 

 

 

Step 3 Link the object

Just click the arrow onto the unselected object that is active as it is in the working group. The link is created.

 

 

In case you do not see the link well, here under without the map. An you can see that the link goes directly to the other object on the map.

 

 

Oh yes, of course! I feel so stupid now for not understanding what you meant immediately

 

Thanks, you've just made my mission editing life a lot easier!

[Habu]

One thing which can help a lot is if you have a mouse with more buttons.

 

I did a profil for my G700 and i set Add target and add object to a button.

 

In that case, i select the object from on template, then i navigate to others groups and have to use my button with Add target/object to do the link from the first object selected. I don't need to go back to the first object.

 

[IckyATLAS]

On 9/5/2022 at 6:40 PM, Habu said:

One thing which can help a lot is if you have a mouse with more buttons.

 

I did a profil for my G700 and i set Add target and add object to a button.

 

In that case, i select the object from on template, then i navigate to others groups and have to use my button with Add target/object to do the link from the first object selected. I don't need to go back to the first object.

 

Excellent Idea, I have a G mouse but less sophisticated than yours but with those two buttons. Let's see if I can program them.

I suppose that you have programmed Shift-T and Shift-O? Right?

[Habu]

47 minutes ago, IckyATLAS said:

Excellent Idea, I have a G mouse but less sophisticated than yours but with those two buttons. Let's see if I can program them.

I suppose that you have programmed Shift-T and Shift-O? Right?

Yes.