Latest Dev Screenshots of TrueSKY and 4K Aircraft Texture Posted on TFS Facebook

July 3, 2022

Anyway, I'm glad to have helped with this thread, posting multiple pictures and sharing the great work TFS are doing.

Edited July 3, 2022 by Mysticpuma

July 4, 2022

Thank you Avivimus, thank you Puma.

My point, with my last comment, refers to the fact that back in the 1990s there was an almost complete incommunicability with the devs. We players were nothing but silent consumers... and nevertheless happy with our games. This is why I'm looking forward to all next TFS products, whatever the amount of pics/videos they unveil. Jason Williams manages his company in the "web 2.0" era style... TFS manages his in the old school style... why should this be a problem? Where on the earth is it officially stated that a game development company is forced to sustain a "web 2.0" attitude?

July 4, 2022

True. I remember that Oleg Maddox pioneered at lot of that interaction with players in 2000... one of the first companies to do it (although I've been told there were some bulletin boards where the Flanker devs could also be reached) Maddox was remarkable for his willingness to work with third party modellers, to reply to e-mails and appear in the forums, to incorporate feedback.

But it is always good to ask 'What can they do with this feedback?' and whether it is feasible at this time. I think one of the problems with Cliffs of Dover is actually the feedback given by some of us (including myself). There were replies in the manual explaining why certain features didn't get into the engine rewrite that people had asked about (well, I know I asked about them)... and I can't help but wonder if we encouraged them to reach too far.

Anyway, sorry if I came across as slightly grumpy. I do think this thread should be split so we can keep the discussion of progress and the discussion of the discussion separate from the news... because some of these screenshots are glorious and much better than I expected... and we should take a moment to celebrate.

July 4, 2022

2 hours ago, Avimimus said:

Okay - here is another suggestion - why not split this thread into two threads - one with the screenshots and one with the conversation (That is going to inevitably lead to duels).

Interestingly, the developers were still able to make good products SWOTL had a lot of nice features and one of the best manuals in the history of games/sims.

Btw. The 2d art based aircraft in that game (each aircraft consisted of 16 images and eight cockpit images)... for one additional aircraft as an expansion it was the equivalent of either $107 or $161 CAD (I forget whether they were $40 USD or $60 USD in 1994 dollars)... for one aircraft!

We're getting a complete overhaul of all aircraft and landscape textures... a new weather engine and waves, new trees... and numerous other fixes for free.

I'm all for constructive criticism, but I think people do sometimes lose sight of what we should be grateful for - especially as we wouldn't have North Africa at all in any sim - if it wasn't for the volunteers (and now ex-volunteers) who have been working for nearly ten years to upgrade this sim and add content to it.

P.S. I hate to say 'Back in my day...' and 'You youngsters never had it so good...' but I have a feeling I'm probably saying this to people who are older than me but who have simply forgotten what things used to be like

I have not forgotten. I started with Jet in 1985 or 1986 and the planes were a group of triangles. Audio was beep!

July 4, 2022

3 hours ago, Avimimus said:

True. I remember that Oleg Maddox pioneered at lot of that interaction with players in 2000... one of the first companies to do it (although I've been told there were some bulletin boards where the Flanker devs could also be reached) Maddox was remarkable for his willingness to work with third party modellers, to reply to e-mails and appear in the forums, to incorporate feedback.

Maybe but, if you are the developer, at some point in the process you need to remember that you are the boss, not the community of players. I don't know if whether or not the major companies in the gaming industry are that dependent on their final consumers, but apparently in this niche (serious flight simulation) the development companies indeed seem to be that dependent. So maybe Maddox Games and/or Eagle Dynamics pioneered something in connection with the "web 2.0 style" of communication with the final consumer... but, apparently, now they are permamently monitored by endless numbers of final consumers via forums, consumers who are now in a completely new state of mind that consists in something like "they get my money... thus they owe me at least one thing which is permanently paying attention to my queries". Video game developers in the 20th century never could have imagined how they were about to be treated by their own consumers in the 21st.

3 hours ago, Avimimus said:

But it is always good to ask 'What can they do with this feedback?' and whether it is feasible at this time. I think one of the problems with Cliffs of Dover is actually the feedback given by some of us (including myself). There were replies in the manual explaining why certain features didn't get into the engine rewrite that people had asked about (well, I know I asked about them)... and I can't help but wonder if we encouraged them to reach too far.

Yep, true, 0 feedback this is not acceptable neither... but you said, Avivimus, "and I can't help but wonder if we encouraged them to reach too far"... well, again, the devs are in command, they are responsible for the released product. IL2CoD gives me the impression that 2011 was a fiasco not because the community had asked too much to Oleg... but because Oleg really had a very ambitious project which came from his very own will. I'm not complaining upon Oleg now, I prefer the game as it was in 2011 rather than an average product for the standards of those early 2010s.

3 hours ago, Avimimus said:

Anyway, sorry if I came across as slightly grumpy.

?

3 hours ago, Avimimus said:

I do think this thread should be split so we can keep the discussion of progress and the discussion of the discussion separate from the news... because some of these screenshots are glorious and much better than I expected... and we should take a moment to celebrate.

?

July 25, 2022

Looks like we are getting True Gray, not true sky.

I hope I'm wrong, but....

Edited July 25, 2022 by Jaws2002

July 25, 2022

Screengrabs from the video

Edited July 25, 2022 by Mysticpuma

July 25, 2022

These shots confirm my fears. Whoever was calibrating the colors before TrueSKY is calibrating them again.

What's the point to get an amazing good tool, like TrueSKY and turn it into the same gray mess?

Edited July 25, 2022 by Jaws2002

July 25, 2022

10 minutes ago, Jaws2002 said:

These shots confirm my fears. Whoever was calibrating the colors before TrueSKY is calibrating them again.

What's the point to get an amazing good tool, like TrueSKY and turn it into the same gray mess?

I mentioned in another thread that the sky-domes are looking too grey and washed out. Hopefully, since the work is still WIP, this is, perhaps, something that is being worked on. TrueSky has the capabilities for complex, realistic lighting, so let's hope this is integrated correctly.

Just a more natural colour to the world would lift the visuals considerably. The clouds and landscape textures look excellent, and they deserve a sky to match.

July 25, 2022

27 minutes ago, philiped said:

Hopefully, since the work is still WIP, this is, perhaps, something that is being worked on. TrueSky has the capabilities for complex, realistic lighting, so let's hope this is integrated correctly.

I hope you are right, but TrueSKY doesn't come with that gray sky dome. Someone changed it to look that way. Whoever is calibrating the colors is stuck on that early 2000's "Battle of Britain 2" look and won't let go.

Edited July 25, 2022 by Jaws2002

July 25, 2022

20 minutes ago, Jaws2002 said:

I hope you are right, but TrueSKY doesn't come with that gray sky dome. Someone changed it to look that way.

It very much looks like the stock colours are being used. Hopefully it should be a relatively easy change. It would bring so much more life to the visuals.

July 27, 2022

I got good results with ReShade. With just 4 filters, the sky was blue and clean and even removed those defective concentric circles that appear in the sky.

July 27, 2022

2 minutes ago, NOX said:

I got good results with ReShade. With just 4 filters, the sky was blue and clean and even removed those defective concentric circles that appear in the sky.

That's good to see. This effectively means with a few tweaks to the shaders available to TFS, banding can effectively be eradicated and the sky given a true sky colour in the release version, rather than a third party app needing to be used.

Whether they do this is a different matter but it's easy to see the difference those small changes make in the visuals thanks to your images ?

July 27, 2022

Looks great! This has come a long way. I'll buy Tobruk once VR is released as well as this visual update.

July 27, 2022

7 hours ago, NOX said:

I got good results with ReShade. With just 4 filters, the sky was blue and clean and even removed those defective concentric circles that appear in the sky.

Thank you NOX. Please, if it's not too intrusive, may I ask you if you are a developer, part of TFS?

12 minutes ago, kestrel79 said:

I'll buy Tobruk once VR is released as well as this visual update.

If you possess the basic "Cliffs of Dover"... you'll get the visual update for free, whether you purchase Tobruk or not. At least, this is what we've been told by the developers.

July 27, 2022

Nox,

on your screenshots the images on the right are brighter than the one on the left.

They are "prettier" in my opinion.

My question is, are they realistic?

July 28, 2022

For a summer sky over the UK, I'd say they look pretty spot on. The grey-cast present in the left image looks washed out...

July 28, 2022

July 28, 2022

3 minutes ago, 343KKT_Kintaro said:

Lovely Pic but as a Londoner I can say this clarity in the sky happens maybe 5-10 days a year and usually in the winter! Summer skies are paler - anyway the photographer is likely using a polarising filter. I agree Cliffs skies are too muddy - but remember Coal and Wood and dirty coal gas were main sources of fuel - lots of examples of the Ruhr and other industrial areas being obscured by "coal haze" in 40s and 50s especially when high pressure systems were around

July 28, 2022

Well, in fact I wasn't pretending anything irrevocable. Only suggesting. You know Peachy, even if the above suggested image hadn't been digitally treated (you say it has been and this is ok), no photograph on earth could be seriously considered as an accurate and faithful depiction of the real world. Human (& animal) vision is a subjective and non-transferable experience and, in the final analysis, photographs and films are nothing but recent technological supports intended for visual depiction of photographed objects (recent when compared to the whole history of painting from prehistoric times to the present days) but even if we consider them as closer to the visual experience we have of our physical environment... they are affected by the mechanism that produces them and, thus, unavoidably, they cannot be "realistic", not at 100%. When it comes to talk about flight sims, "photorealism" is definitely a meaningful term ("Snoopy vs the Red Baron" NEEDS to be cartoonish and "Cliffs of Dover" NEEDS to be photorealistic) but I think that the players in general should understand that a flight sim is nothing but an unavoidably biased artistic depiction. If some members in the community are not happy with this so called "gray tint", this is much more due to personal taste rather than due to the feasibility of the so pretended "realism". In the final analysis, realism in visual arts (and development of a flight sim is a visual art) is nothing but an illusion. As a conclusion my opinion is that the developers will satisfy those players who complain of gray tints... if they can and, in the first place, if they want.

July 28, 2022

1 hour ago, Peachy9 said:

I agree Cliffs skies are too muddy - but remember Coal and Wood and dirty coal gas were main sources of fuel - lots of examples of the Ruhr and other industrial areas being obscured by "coal haze" in 40s and 50s especially when high pressure systems were around

I get the point but I wonder if this coal haze still there at Angel20.

July 28, 2022

Some new pictures just posted on the Team Fusion Facebook page

July 28, 2022

Quote

3 hours ago, OBT-Eazy said:

I get the point but I wonder if this coal haze still there at Angel20.

Unlikely i agree but i am guessing that for the purposes of a Flight Sim one needs to strike a balance - modelling of, Adiabatic Lapse Rates, transparency and atmospheric extinction and a huge range of things would be counterproductive and as Kintaro says finding a happy medium that please everyone will be impossible... What is clear though (excuse the pun) is that sky colour is less vivid and clarity in the summertime is much less than in the wintertime due to evaporation/pollution/aerosols etc

PS love pics above

Edited July 28, 2022 by Peachy9

July 28, 2022

Will clouds cast shadows on ground? I don't notice any in the pictures.

July 28, 2022

I really like the neutral, unsaturated look of the colours. It feels more realistic. I've read accounts that mention how often the skies were hazy with a brown tint over Southern England.

Nowadays photographers often oversaturate everything to make it "pop". DCS World over England does this and to my taste, it feels wrong.

For those who prefer pretty, at least there is Reshade.

July 28, 2022

2 hours ago, CDRSEABEE said:

Will clouds cast shadows on ground? I don't notice any in the pictures.

Also are the clouds/weather systems dynamic? This is a fantastic feature in Great Battles and would be a great addition to CoD.

July 28, 2022

4 minutes ago, Yardstick said:

Also are the clouds/weather systems dynamic?

I think Buzzsaw said they will be. At any rate, my impression is that the devs bring their responses on this thread (click for joining it).

July 28, 2022

5 hours ago, Knightmare said:

I really like the neutral, unsaturated look of the colours. It feels more realistic. I've read accounts that mention how often the skies were hazy with a brown tint over Southern England.

Nowadays photographers often oversaturate everything to make it "pop". DCS World over England does this and to my taste, it feels wrong.

For those who prefer pretty, at least there is Reshade.

But the neutral look is not realistic at all. This game is a simulator, after all.

I live in Southern England and the sky is not a washed grey colour. When the sun is shining the sky dome is a vivid blue. Historically game developers have always been shy to represent these realistic colours, as the technology to do so would result in luminous colours. Hence the preponderancy for games to have artificial filters. Now that graphic engines have advanced it is possible to represent these colours, and DCS does a great job. Take a flight over Southern England in the summertime and note how vivid the range of colours are, both on the landscape and in the air.

The new screenshots show how brilliant the clouds are looking, but the sky dome just looks so out of place.

July 28, 2022

The sky colours are a function of the shaders... which are the last element which is set.

These affect everything... including how blue the sky is... as well as the colour of the cloud shadows, the colour of the shadows in the cockpits, etc. etc.

What people are looking at are WIP.

July 29, 2022

3 hours ago, Buzzsaw said:

The sky colours are a function of the shaders... which are the last element which is set.

These affect everything... including how blue the sky is... as well as the colour of the cloud shadows, the colour of the shadows in the cockpits, etc. etc.

What people are looking at are WIP.

I don't care if it is a WIP!

It doesn't look the way I want it to!!!

I want it to look like me flying and looping and soaring my Martlet or beloved Tomahawk amongst the rolling clouds. Please make it look like this and I will shut up. I promise!!!

S!Blade<>< <--- I have the blues after looking at these pictures.

July 29, 2022

You have the "blues" did you say, BladeMeister? Then you got what you wanted!

Come on, please, seriously. We are not sitting at a restaurant, choosing our personalised meal from a menu. We are a community and the version we'll get will be the same for everyone. This requires making some concessions.

Anyway, if it's work in progress, BladeMeister, we don't know how things will go in the next steps of development of version 6.0.

Cheers everyone, looking forward to the next shared pics and videos.

July 29, 2022

19 hours ago, 343KKT_Kintaro said:

You have the "blues" did you say, BladeMeister? Then you got what you wanted!

Come on, please, seriously. We are not sitting at a restaurant, choosing our personalised meal from a menu. We are a community and the version we'll get will be the same for everyone. This requires making some concessions.

Anyway, if it's work in progress, BladeMeister, we don't know how things will go in the next steps of development of version 6.0.

Cheers everyone, looking forward to the next shared pics and videos.

Why do you talk to everyone like they are a child? It was a joke Kintaro. Look up the meaning of humor or sarcastic humor and add those definitions to your all knowing perception of wisdom that you have about yourself. Sometimes it is just Fun or Funny to break the dramatic seriousness of 'what TFS will or will not do or will TFS ruin the sim forever and drive all the customers away. You guys need to lighten up, stop speculating so much and wait and see what TFS actually does produce in the forth coming update. I'll put money on it that this update is going to be Spectacular! Chillax Bro!

S!Blade<><

Edited July 30, 2022 by BladeMeister

July 29, 2022

So you were joking, ok. I didn't get it and I apology for that. Now, please, stop all of this shitty & insulting "perception of wisdom that I have about myself", I'm fed up with this kind of negative attitude in the forums. Reread my former message and please admit I wasn't insulting you.

July 29, 2022

Another new image

July 29, 2022

:yahoo:
Our patience will be wonderfully rewarded!

July 29, 2022

5 hours ago, 343KKT_Kintaro said:

So you were joking, ok. I didn't get it and I apology for that. Now, please, stop all of this shitty & insulting "perception of wisdom that I have about myself", I'm fed up with this kind of negative attitude in the forums. Reread my former message and please admit I wasn't insulting you.

First just to clear the air, the pics look great, TY MP for posting them. The TruSky I see in the pics looks great to me. Go TFS!

Can't wait!

Kintaro, go back and read your own response and understand that you come off like you are the King of all CLOD discussions a lot of the time. Like your the only one that knows about CLOD. Your response basically said nothing and addressed me like a child that had just discovered CLOD. I have been around since TF 4.12 and have always supported TF, TFS and ATAG. I don't know it all but I do know a good amount about CLOD and don't need you to tell me;

"We are not sitting at a restaurant, choosing our personalised meal from a menu. We are a community and the version we'll get will be the same for everyone. This requires making some concessions."

Or

Anyway, if it's work in progress, BladeMeister, we don't know how things will go in the next steps of development of version 6.0.

We are not talking about version 6.0 which hasn't even been announced yet. We are talking about the coming update, 4k graphics, TruSky, Speedtree and VR.

I may not be the sharpest pencil in the box, but I for one don't need or want you or anyone talking to me like a child unless I am acting like a child. It was a joke. Wake up and learn to recognize humor when you read it. Apologize to yourself and it will all be good in my eyes. If your ever in doubt as to whether I am joking or not in the future, just PM me and save yourself the grief of responding as you did this last time.

SBlade<><

July 29, 2022

Reads like quite a bit more testing to come. Hats off to the beta group?️

Edited July 29, 2022 by Dagwoodyt

July 30, 2022

I didn't get you were joking BladeMeister, I thought you were for real, and this is why I typed what I typed. Canvas25, who just upvoted you BladeMeister, is not understanding that apparently, neither you... apparently.

We have always been good friends in these forums, Blade, and we still can stay good friends if you want.

July 30, 2022

Two more pictures

July 30, 2022

On 7/29/2022 at 9:52 AM, BladeMeister said:

First just to clear the air, the pics look great, TY MP for posting them. The TruSky I see in the pics looks great to me. Go TFS!

Can't wait!

Kintaro, go back and read your own response and understand that you come off like you are the King of all CLOD discussions a lot of the time. Like your the only one that knows about CLOD. Your response basically said nothing and addressed me like a child that had just discovered CLOD. I have been around since TF 4.12 and have always supported TF, TFS and ATAG. I don't know it all but I do know a good amount about CLOD and don't need you to tell me;

"We are not sitting at a restaurant, choosing our personalised meal from a menu. We are a community and the version we'll get will be the same for everyone. This requires making some concessions."

Or

Anyway, if it's work in progress, BladeMeister, we don't know how things will go in the next steps of development of version 6.0.

We are not talking about version 6.0 which hasn't even been announced yet. We are talking about the coming update, 4k graphics, TruSky, Speedtree and VR.

I may not be the sharpest pencil in the box, but I for one don't need or want you or anyone talking to me like a child unless I am acting like a child. It was a joke. Wake up and learn to recognize humor when you read it. Apologize to yourself and it will all be good in my eyes. If your ever in doubt as to whether I am joking or not in the future, just PM me and save yourself the grief of responding as you did this last time.

SBlade<><

Come on guys, lets relax and understand there may be misunderstandings.

Please avoid personal attacks.

13 hours ago, 343KKT_Kintaro said:

I didn't get you were joking BladeMeister, I thought you were for real, and this is why I typed what I typed. Canvas25, who just upvoted you BladeMeister, is not understanding that apparently, neither you... apparently.

We have always been good friends in these forums, Blade, and we still can stay good friends if you want.

See my comment to Blademeister... please avoid jumping on comments and personal attacks.

Latest Dev Screenshots of TrueSKY and 4K Aircraft Texture Posted on TFS Facebook

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