Ribbon Posted June 19, 2022 Posted June 19, 2022 At this point only PTO can make money leave my wallet! 3
Bando Posted June 19, 2022 Posted June 19, 2022 Anything this "combat proven" devteam throws at me will be ok. If it flies I'll buy it blind. Tanks not so much. 3
Cravis Posted June 19, 2022 Posted June 19, 2022 (edited) Wishful thinking wise I would of course preferer a proper pacific theatre with carriers and a completely new selection of planes. But carriers as I understand might prove difficult and then there is the issue that without map none of the planes make sense in any of the eastern or western theatres making an early access phase an odd endeavour. In any event something related to the Philippines or Solomon Islands campaigns might be feasible as they could involve land based airfields. Personally a Battle of Leyte Golf would be my favourite. Despite the CloD issue a Battle of Britain would probably be easiest as they could reuse the channel map and it would also make sense for their up-comming drop tank tech. Maybe use the time not having to build a map to build a pacific map in preparation for a pacific entry. I guess they could go with end of war eastern front scenario, a battle of France or a siege of Malta. But honestly those are hardly exciting for me. There is also a possible Africa campaign but then you have the Clod issue with Tobruk. Edited June 19, 2022 by Cravis
354thFG_Leifr Posted June 19, 2022 Posted June 19, 2022 1 hour ago, =VARP=Ribbon said: At this point only PTO can make money leave my wallet! PTO or bust for me as well. 1
CountZero Posted June 19, 2022 Posted June 19, 2022 3 hours ago, =VARP=Ribbon said: At this point only PTO can make money leave my wallet! 1 hour ago, Leifr said: PTO or bust for me as well. This was posted after BoN started to be build, 0% chances we get anything PTO like: Pacific Comments When I took over development of Sturmovik I was convinced we could make a Pacific themed product without too much difficulty and shared that confidence with you. After getting neck deep in our development cycle for Kuban I realized the data and references I had where inadequate and my earlier confidence was a mistake. However, no matter how resourceful I am or how much I believe in the power of a strong will, I have yet to find a viable path to make this product to the standards you expect and within a time frame that pleases my business partners. This is why I have delayed any attempt to make a Pacific themed product to this point. Since I last spoke about this issue, I have had three different Japanese speaking people do research for me in Japan to help me find needed and known references that will help the team build some Japanese planes to our usual standards and no one came back with anything super useful. I have personally spent quite a bit of my own money and amassed quite a large library of books on Japanese planes and they come close to what we need, but not quite enough. We also face the challenge of building the carriers and support ships of the USN and IJN. Not so easy and an expensive part of the development. Plus, some serious and costly translations are needed to learn about every system and procedure of these planes like we do with our current aircraft. Building a A6M “Zeke” is not really the issue, there are enough references to build one for Sturmovik, but some of the other main-line but less-famous Japanese planes are more difficult. Committing my team to a product that only has a flyable Zero and a host of flyable American planes is not really a marketable option for our business model. We prefer to continue to build a full plane-set for each of our products. That’s what sells best for us. I will continue to search any resource I find including government sources for actionable and useful info on Japanese aircraft, especially their cockpits in my spare time. And thanks to those who have sent me info through our forum or email over the past two years. I appreciate it greatly. I still hold out hope that we can sail the Pacific at some point in the future. Jason 4
Lusekofte Posted June 19, 2022 Posted June 19, 2022 If Pacific with no carriers I hope it is starting early and focus on all allied. So we can have all cool Japanese bombers, Beufighter and so on. It would be a revitalised new game. We would have Brewsters trying to survive and a lot of cool stuff 1 hour ago, brahguevara said: Spanish Civil War Yes SCW would be a blast, followed up by winterwar in Finland. Ending up in costal command over Norway , Murmansk convoys
CountZero Posted June 19, 2022 Posted June 19, 2022 SCW would be such a blast that it would end the 777 studios lol some ppl live in fantasy land
MeoW.Scharfi Posted June 19, 2022 Posted June 19, 2022 My call is: 1) Something Eastern Front 44/45 2) Italy 3) something in Pacific(most of us hope for) 4
REDVO Posted June 19, 2022 Posted June 19, 2022 Early combat theaters like SCW or China would be great.... 1
CountZero Posted June 19, 2022 Posted June 19, 2022 45 minutes ago, REDVO said: Early combat theaters like SCW or China would be great.... OK if your serious about that, show us map area and airplane types you would use in SCW or China DLC that have historical battles and airplanes used on them, and that you can fined data on level they need for game standards, considering they think data that exist for D2A or B5N is not good enough for them to make PTO with them.
Hotaru_Ito Posted June 19, 2022 Posted June 19, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, CountZero said: This was posted after BoN started to be build, 0% chances we get anything PTO like: I will continue to search any resource I find including government sources for actionable and useful info on Japanese aircraft, especially their cockpits in my spare time. And thanks to those who have sent me info through our forum or email over the past two years. I appreciate it greatly. I still hold out hope that we can sail the Pacific at some point in the future. Jason While I admire Jason's commitment to "if you're going to do a thing, do it right," he should remember that sometimes "perfect is the enemy of good enough." If he thinks documentation for Japanese planes will become available in the future, that's one thing, but if not, then the only thing left to do is take whatever documentation he has and make his best guess. Especially given the one plane where getting it just right is most important, the Zero, is the one he says he DOES have info on. I honestly don't care if the fuel gauge on the Val is on the right or the left, or the Kate is 3 miles per hour faster than the real one. I know that whatever the devs come up with will be the best they could've done with whatever info they had. Especially since there's obviously a lot of demand, a "good enough" PTO now is better than a "perfect" PTO never. Edited June 19, 2022 by Hotaru_Ito 2 11
REDVO Posted June 19, 2022 Posted June 19, 2022 Hi, the fact that I made a comment on early scenarios like SCW or China does not mean that i am willing or going to spend the next 3 days or weeks or months searching for data lol the gaming standards they work with are obviously very high and that is good but a level of 100 accuracy will never be achieved on any aircraft or scenario that they choose to proceed with. I have flown this type of scenarios in the old il2 both online and in offline campaigns and it does grow into you that given the right aircraft, mission builders can work miracles , it can be achieved... i also believe that a lot of simmers would agree that early aircraft can be a lot of fun. Anyway, whatever road they take they have my support since i enjoy the product. Cheers.
CountZero Posted June 19, 2022 Posted June 19, 2022 2 hours ago, REDVO said: Hi, the fact that I made a comment on early scenarios like SCW or China does not mean that i am willing or going to spend the next 3 days or weeks or months searching for data lol the gaming standards they work with are obviously very high and that is good but a level of 100 accuracy will never be achieved on any aircraft or scenario that they choose to proceed with. I have flown this type of scenarios in the old il2 both online and in offline campaigns and it does grow into you that given the right aircraft, mission builders can work miracles , it can be achieved... i also believe that a lot of simmers would agree that early aircraft can be a lot of fun. Anyway, whatever road they take they have my support since i enjoy the product. Cheers. I enjoyed also SCW or early china and some other scenarious in old IL-2 especialy in moded version of game, but here they have higher standards for airplanes and maps, i just cant see how can they build SCW or China on same level they build DLCs we have. I would like to have Crete or Greece but that cant change fact that they cant build that and sell it, someone mentioned Norway, it was fun to play in old IL-2 but cant see it build here... times have changed. I just dont understand how ppl can think some periods could be made if Battle of Midway is problem, and that should be easy thing to do and sell well. Its not just early airplanes its whole pacage whats the problematic.
CzechTexan Posted June 19, 2022 Posted June 19, 2022 I'd put my money down for Battle of France 1940! We will already have the Normandy map (not sure if it needs expanding for BoF). The French aircraft are intriguing as well as having a P-36. It would also be interesting to have Tank Crew develop some French tanks vs early German tanks. I just prefer early-war scenarios when the Allies were struggling as the underdogs rather than late-war scenarios where the Allies were overwhelming. 2
Eisenfaustus Posted June 19, 2022 Posted June 19, 2022 1 hour ago, CzechTexan said: I'd put my money down for Battle of France 1940! We will already have the Normandy map (not sure if it needs expanding for BoF). The French aircraft are intriguing as well as having a P-36. It would also be interesting to have Tank Crew develop some French tanks vs early German tanks. I just prefer early-war scenarios when the Allies were struggling as the underdogs rather than late-war scenarios where the Allies were overwhelming. Would be an instant preorder for me. Yet I believe that French/Italian/Finnish airforces might not be able to generate the sales necessary. I really hope to be wrong though. 1
Docholiday Posted June 19, 2022 Posted June 19, 2022 15 hours ago, 616Sqn_Tyggz said: 1940 to 1943. Siege of Malta, kicking Jerry out of Tunisia and invading Sicily/Italy. All in one map. Trop Spitfire Vc's, Beaufighters, Wildcats (Martlets), Sea Hurricanes, and P-40s. Let's not forget the B-25! A lot of the landing craft built for Normandy could be used here as well as many of the currently existing allied aircraft and their derivatives. In conjunction with the Italian pilot the devs have hinted at producing, I'd say this is a pretty solid and not implausible module like PTO. Yes mediterranian with every comfort + Beaufighter VIC OR Channel and Norway with Sunderland etc + Beaufighter X 1
DBFlyguy Posted June 19, 2022 Posted June 19, 2022 5 hours ago, Hotaru_Ito said: While I admire Jason's commitment to "if you're going to do a thing, do it right," he should remember that sometimes "perfect is the enemy of good enough." If he thinks documentation for Japanese planes will become available in the future, that's one thing, but if not, then the only thing left to do is take whatever documentation he has and make his best guess. Especially given the one plane where getting it just right is most important, the Zero, is the one he says he DOES have info on. I honestly don't care if the fuel gauge on the Val is on the right or the left, or the Kate is 3 miles per hour faster than the real one. I know that whatever the devs come up with will be the best they could've done with whatever info they had. Especially since there's obviously a lot of demand, a "good enough" PTO now is better than a "perfect" PTO never. While I am definitely rooting and hoping for this game to eventually go to the pacific... I definitely have my concerns how things are currently being done and if it'll ever happen. I definitely feel like there has been some "waiting for perfect".... or put more bluntly...waiting for the "magical data fairy" to drop off all the data needed, free of charge and perfectly translated. Its never going to happen. What I'm having a really hard time wrapping my head around is with all of these Commemorative Air Force wings...all of these EAA chapters...private collectors and museums in the US, every single one of them has been a dry hole, not one of them has a single member (or any of those members knowing someone) that could point whoever is trying to research what is needed in the right direction?...seriously ? What exactly is missing? What data is needed? Is there a specific aircraft the devs really want to do but need some specific data on? Maybe someone who visits the forum every once in a while has a friend (or a friend of a friend) or relative that has a connection, WWII including the pacific theatre is an extremely popular history topic for historians, "missing data" is really vague. Then there is the B-25... what went into the decision to research one of the rarest variants (B-25D)... when there are like over 40 airworthy B-25J's in the US alone compared to about 2 B-25Ds... Not one of these owners/organizations is willing to assist the researcher to gather whatever missing data, documents/diagrams that are needed on the B25J? A warbird owner is now shy and doesn't want the history of his aircraft that he probably spent thousands of man hours painfully restoring being immortalized for thousands of potential customers to see? ?The B-25J operated in smaller numbers than the D in the theatres we have in the game currently, but we literally just got a Ar234 which was barely a drop in the bucket numbers wise in those theatres... Are we only getting collector aircraft operated in large numbers in the current theatres? how many is considered "large numbers"? Leave the B-25D as AI and do the B-25J as flyable... this honestly should be a "no-brainer" decision. I want to believe we'll eventually get the Pacific...I want to believe we'll eventually get a flyable B-25... hopefully at least of those eventually happen. Time will tell I guess. 2
AndytotheD Posted June 19, 2022 Posted June 19, 2022 I personally hope the next expansion will be something to do with Italy, Eastern front ‘45, or the Pacific. preferably the Pacific. I can only speak for myself, but I probably wouldn’t buy any of the niche theatres like the Winter War, France 1940, or the SCW, certainly not at full price early access anyway. 3
CountZero Posted June 19, 2022 Posted June 19, 2022 1 hour ago, DBFlyguy said: While I am definitely rooting and hoping for this game to eventually go to the pacific... I definitely have my concerns how things are currently being done and if it'll ever happen. I definitely feel like there has been some "waiting for perfect".... or put more bluntly...waiting for the "magical data fairy" to drop off all the data needed, free of charge and perfectly translated. Its never going to happen. What I'm having a really hard time wrapping my head around is with all of these Commemorative Air Force wings...all of these EAA chapters...private collectors and museums in the US, every single one of them has been a dry hole, not one of them has a single member (or any of those members knowing someone) that could point whoever is trying to research what is needed in the right direction?...seriously ? What exactly is missing? What data is needed? Is there a specific aircraft the devs really want to do but need some specific data on? Maybe someone who visits the forum every once in a while has a friend (or a friend of a friend) or relative that has a connection, WWII including the pacific theatre is an extremely popular history topic for historians, "missing data" is really vague. Then there is the B-25... what went into the decision to research one of the rarest variants (B-25D)... when there are like over 40 airworthy B-25J's in the US alone compared to about 2 B-25Ds... Not one of these owners/organizations is willing to assist the researcher to gather whatever missing data, documents/diagrams that are needed on the B25J? A warbird owner is now shy and doesn't want the history of his aircraft that he probably spent thousands of man hours painfully restoring being immortalized for thousands of potential customers to see? ?The B-25J operated in smaller numbers than the D in the theatres we have in the game currently, but we literally just got a Ar234 which was barely a drop in the bucket numbers wise in those theatres... Are we only getting collector aircraft operated in large numbers in the current theatres? how many is considered "large numbers"? Leave the B-25D as AI and do the B-25J as flyable... this honestly should be a "no-brainer" decision. I want to believe we'll eventually get the Pacific...I want to believe we'll eventually get a flyable B-25... hopefully at least of those eventually happen. Time will tell I guess. Its not a big mistery what data and for what airplanes they look for, i fined it funny when ppl think were gona go to PTO but also think its anything els but Midway, place they anounced as first PTO, place they search data for airplanes... but somehow they belive its some asia war or onother IJA ritch battle... if they go PTO its gona be carrier enviroment with zero vs cats... if they then plan to go PTO would not BoN be perfect place to test out how bigger ships work in game, whould then not then build atleast CA type ship if not BB in Normandy that had them... fact that we dont get any bigger ship then DD says it all about chances that next DLC is PTO, 0%. Everyone, As mentioned in DD 159 we are in need of quality references for Japanese aircraft. Namely information about the following: 1. Cockpits 2. Engines 3. Systems 4. Performance 5. Construction 6. Weapons We are in need of good images, drawings and cross-sections, informational texts, manuals, pilot guides, test data, performance graphs etc. The planes we are most interested in at the moment are: A6M model 21 "Zeke" B5N2 "Kate" D3A1 "Val" F1M2 "Pete" Please post such information here in this special section if you have anything useful. Before you post anything please follow these guidelines. 1. Don't post links to discussions elsewhere such as other game/simulation websites or forums that contain links to special materials. Please link directly to the materials here and state what the materials are. 2. We already have the TAIC performance reports from the war, but the section about the A6M Model 21 is missing as it was considered obsolete at time of publishing. If located this might be of use. 3. We have an entire set of Maru Mechanic books about Japanese airplanes. Please do not post items from these books unless they are translations of the material. 4. We already have the Rene Francillon book Japanese Aircraft of the Pacific War. Please do not post information from that book here. Please do not start discussing other topics in this section or speculate about other topics or the planes mentions above. Any off topic or unnecessary discussion will simply be deleted. We need to stay on task. Our ability to make this product rides on the data we have to make proper Japanese aircraft. Thanks in advance to anyone who help provide useful information! Jason 1 3
Tigre91 Posted June 19, 2022 Posted June 19, 2022 1) Baltic (Finland and Leningrad included): We could have late war Russian planes and they can easily make collectors for Winter War. 2) Spanish Civil War: early 109, hs123, italian planes... 3) Southern Italy, included Sicily, Malta and Africa maybe? 4) Balcans? Sadly i can't see Pacific as an option but i would love it
Dagwoodyt Posted June 20, 2022 Posted June 20, 2022 (edited) I would like a Mig Alley module, but that is as unlikey as a PTO module. I cannot imagine the next module not having more 109 and 190 variants. Battle of Berlin seems most likely. Not something I'm excited about but probably an inevitability. Edited June 20, 2022 by Dagwoodyt
AndytotheD Posted June 20, 2022 Posted June 20, 2022 16 hours ago, CountZero said: … For what it’s worth, the posts by Jason you quoted are 5 years and 2 years old respectively. It is entirely possible things might have changed in the meantime, that they may have been able to further translate, acquire and interpret information they needed to make a pacific expansion. I’m not naive enough to assume they have performed a miracle, but I don’t imagine it’s especially out of the realm of possibility that they may have overcome some of the problems that were preventing progress on that theatre
Avimimus Posted June 20, 2022 Posted June 20, 2022 "F1M2 "Pete"" If we got a flyable ship-based recon/spotting floatplane... I'd actually be super-excited about the module. That'd be something new! The fact that he mentioned that might've converted me! 20 hours ago, Bando said: Anything this "combat proven" devteam throws at me will be ok. If it flies I'll buy it blind. Tanks not so much. I'm not sure I'd go in for TC2 at $79.99... I did eventually get TC1 at half price and found that it was a lot more enjoyable than I had expected (based on the free tanks). Really good quality, lots of interesting challenges, lots of detail. I do agree that it is let down by AI - lack of spotting from other crew members, and excessively good spotting on the part of enemy tanks (even when they are 'buttoned up'). So it could really do with AI closer to what DCS was implementing (e.g. for the Mi-24). That and a few infantry anti-tank teams or infantry positions (for the HE rounds to find more use). I'd probably be interested in supporting a TC2 if it improved those two areas. I'm definitely much more interested in the Italian front in WWI though! Some of the options there are pretty wild (lots of mountain flying in WWI aircraft, single-seat floatplane fighters etc.)
Enceladus828 Posted June 20, 2022 Posted June 20, 2022 6 hours ago, CountZero said: I find it funny when ppl think were gonna go to PTO but also think its anything else but Midway, place they announced as first PTO, That was announced 5 years ago and in that time they may have considered starting somewhere else first. 6 hours ago, CountZero said: if they then plan to go PTO would not BoN be perfect place to test out how bigger ships work in game, whould then not then build atleast CA type ship if not BB in Normandy that had them... fact that we dont get any bigger ship then DD says it all about chances that next DLC is PTO, 0%. You make a good point as there were many light cruisers at D-Day such as the Dido class but the largest ship modelled for BoN was the Gleaves-class destroyer; they could have also thrown in a U.S. Heavy cruiser class that saw action at Guadalcanal However, keep in mind that BoN required the building of 13 aircraft, the most amount per installment (which required a $10 increase in the price), the map and many things crucial to the Invasion of Normandy than large ships. At the moment, the best option for the Pacific is an installment with the Battle of Guadalcanal and the Battle of the Coral Sea carrier battle. With that the map would be very small in terms of land masses and have very few towns compared to previous maps and thus would likely allow for Carriers, Battleships, Cruisers, etc, etc. The plane set would be the Dauntless, Devastator, Wildcat, Avenger and P-400 for the Americans and the Zero, Kate, and the Val (okay, maybe one more like the "Pete"). 1
Gambit21 Posted June 20, 2022 Posted June 20, 2022 (edited) 10 hours ago, CountZero said: Its not a big mistery what data and for what airplanes they look for, i fined it funny when ppl think were gona go to PTO but also think its anything els but Midway, place they anounced as first PTO, place they search data for airplanes... but somehow they belive its some asia war or onother IJA ritch battle... if they go PTO its gona be carrier enviroment with zero vs cats... if they then plan to go PTO would not BoN be perfect place to test out how bigger ships work in game, whould then not then build atleast CA type ship if not BB in Normandy that had them... fact that we dont get any bigger ship then DD says it all about chances that next DLC is PTO, 0%. I don't think you understand this subject very well to be honest. What was announced originally, years ago is neither here nor there. The early PTO plane set is basically the same between Midway and early Solomons/Guadalcanal...exact 1 for 1 with few exceptions. That's item ONE. Item two... There's enough info to do basically every Allied PTO aircraft, (Wildcat, P-40, Dauntless, Avenger, Corsair, and on and on) and the most important Japanese aircraft - basically every Zero variant, and the Oscar. That's PLENTY for a more than one valid PTO release, even if it means that the Zero(s) and eventually the Oscar(s) are the only actual flyable Japanese aircraft. Who cares, we'll take it. Fact is, the "10 flyable planes plus map" model is not going to last forever...it can't. That's simply not sustainable for various reasons (though possible for a bit longer depending on theater) The fact is, the approach can, and probably will have to flex at some point if the product is going to continue in WWII, and at some point that means PTO. What that looks like exactly, who can say. There's been other conversations in the past few years that we're not privy to...not everything is posted in green on the message boards...in case you didn't know. So posting old messages is not a valid indicator of what is next, be it PTO or anything else. In any case, whether or not PTO is next, it's more than doable so long as a little lateral thinking and flexibility are involved. Nuff said on my part for now. Edited June 20, 2022 by Gambit21 1 9
Sobilak Posted June 20, 2022 Posted June 20, 2022 1) Bagration operation (We have staff for it. We need map "only"). 2) West front over channel (We have staff, we almost have map "Normandy", need some map modifications) 3) If PTO will be possible maybe New Guinea 1942-1944 ( we have P-40E, B-25D, A-20B, P-38J, P-47D-22 but need a lot of new versions; P-40F/K, P-38F/G, B-25G/J, A-20G, Beufighter, A6M21, Ki-43, Ki-21, G4M, ...?, new map, some ships but without carriers, cars, cannons etc.) A lot of work and time but I think it's worth.
Pikestance Posted June 20, 2022 Posted June 20, 2022 On 6/18/2022 at 10:00 PM, Avimimus said: Okay, so my pitch: A Land based Pacific Scenario is a more reasonable stepping stone to the Pacific C) A Land Based Pacific Scenario (e.g. New Guinea) would make the most sense (no need to program carriers). An early-to-mid war scenario would also be much more balanced in terms of the aircraft and forces involved. I'd prefer a scenario with a Ki-43 and a mid-late war Avenger as flyable. Such a scenario could be a stepping stone to Midway or a replacement (if sufficient references can't be found). It is a moot point if they cannot find reasonably reliable information on Japanese aircraft. 1
ITAF_Rani Posted June 20, 2022 Posted June 20, 2022 Hope Jason, will tell us same info about the direction for the next DLC development
CountZero Posted June 20, 2022 Posted June 20, 2022 (edited) 8 hours ago, AndytotheD said: For what it’s worth, the posts by Jason you quoted are 5 years and 2 years old respectively. It is entirely possible things might have changed in the meantime, that they may have been able to further translate, acquire and interpret information they needed to make a pacific expansion. I’m not naive enough to assume they have performed a miracle, but I don’t imagine it’s especially out of the realm of possibility that they may have overcome some of the problems that were preventing progress on that theatre But they didnt say they need data on other battles, or airplane types, also i doubt they searched for more data since 2 years ago as there was world wide pandemic, so if before it they could not fined data how would it be easyer during that. They didnt ask for data on solomons or new guinea or burma, they specificly asked data on airplanes and ships for midway, its their first choice if they go pto for a reason, its delusional to think it could be anything els based on info they give and ask for. The Japanese Fleet at the Battle of Midway Name Class Type Unit Force Akagi Akagi Aicraft Carrier Carrier Division 1 Carrier Force Kaga Kaga Aicraft Carrier Carrier Division 1 Carrier Force Hiryu Soryu Aicraft Carrier Carrier Division 2 Carrier Force Soryu Soryu Aicraft Carrier Carrier Division 2 Carrier Force Haruna Kongo Fast Battleship Battleship Division 3 Section 2 Carrier Force Kirishima Kongo Fast Battleship Battleship Division 3 Section 2 Carrier Force Tone Tone Heavy Cruiser Cruiser Division 8 Carrier Force Chikuma Tone Heavy Cruiser Cruiser Division 8 Carrier Force Nagara Nagara Light Cruiser Destroyer Squadron 10 Carrier Force Nowaki Kagero Destroyer Destroyer Division 4 Carrier Force Arashi Kagero Destroyer Destroyer Division 4 Carrier Force Hagikaze Kagero Destroyer Destroyer Division 4 Carrier Force Maikaze Kagero Destroyer Destroyer Division 4 Carrier Force Kazagumo Yugumo Destroyer Destroyer Division 10 Carrier Force Yugumo Yugumo Destroyer Destroyer Division 10 Carrier Force Makigumo Yugumo Destroyer Destroyer Division 10 Carrier Force Urakaze Kagero Destroyer Destroyer Division 17 Carrier Force Isokaze Kagero Destroyer Destroyer Division 17 Carrier Force Tanikaze Kagero Destroyer Destroyer Division 17 Carrier Force Hamakaze Kagero Destroyer Destroyer Division 17 Carrier Force Oiler #1 Unknown Oiler Supply Group Carrier Force Oiler #2 Unknown Oiler Supply Group Carrier Force Oiler #3 Unknown Oiler Supply Group Carrier Force Oiler #4 Unknown Oiler Supply Group Carrier Force Oiler #5 Unknown Oiler Supply Group Carrier Force Akigumo Kagero Destroyer Supply Group Carrier Force Yamato Yamato Battleship Battleship Division 1 Main Force Nagato Nagato Battleship Battleship Division 1 Main Force Mutsu Nagato Battleship Battleship Division 1 Main Force Hosho Hosho Light Carrier Battleship Division 1 Main Force Chiyoda Chitose Seaplane Tender Battleship Division 1 Main Force Nisshin Nisshin Seaplane Tender Battleship Division 1 Main Force Sendai Sendai Light Cruiser Destroyer Squadron 3 Main Force Flagship Admiral Yamamoto Isoroku Fubuki Fubuki Destroyer Destroyer Division 11 Main Force Shirayuki Fubuki Destroyer Destroyer Division 11 Main Force Murakumo Fubuki Destroyer Destroyer Division 11 Main Force Hatsuyuki Fubuki Destroyer Destroyer Division 11 Main Force Isonami Fubuki Destroyer Destroyer Division 19 Main Force Uranami Fubuki Destroyer Destroyer Division 19 Main Force Shikinami Ayanami Destroyer Destroyer Division 19 Main Force Ayanami Ayanami Destroyer Destroyer Division 19 Main Force Oiler #6 Uknown Oiler 1st Supply Unit Main Force Oiler #7 Uknown Oiler 1st Supply Unit Main Force Ise Ise Battleship Battleship Division 2 Guard Force Hyuga Ise Battleship Battleship Division 2 Guard Force Fuso Fuso Battleship Battleship Division 2 Guard Force Yamashiro Fuso Battleship Battleship Division 2 Guard Force Oi Kuma Light Cruiser Cruiser Division 9 Guard Force Kitakami Kuma Light Cruiser Cruiser Division 9 Guard Force Asagiri Ayanami Destroyer Destroyer Division 20 Guard Force Yugiri Ayanami Destroyer Destroyer Division 20 Guard Force Shirakumo Fubuki Destroyer Destroyer Division 20 Guard Force Amagiri Ayanami Destroyer Destroyer Division 20 Guard Force Umikaze Shiratsuyu Destroyer Destroyer Division 24 Guard Force Yamakaze Shiratsuyu Destroyer Destroyer Division 24 Guard Force Kawakaze Shiratsuyu Destroyer Destroyer Division 24 Guard Force Suzukaze Shiratsuyu Destroyer Destroyer Division 24 Guard Force Ariake Hatsuharu Destroyer Destroyer Division 27 Guard Force Yugure Hatsuharu Destroyer Destroyer Division 27 Guard Force Shigure Shiratsuyu Destroyer Destroyer Division 27 Guard Force Shiratsuyu Shiratsuyu Destroyer Destroyer Division 27 Guard Force Oiler #8 Oiler Oiler 2nd Supply Unit Guard Force Oiler #9 Oiler Oiler 2nd Supply Unit Guard Force Zuiho Zuiho Light Carrier Zuiho Air Group Invasion Force Mikazuki Mutsuki Destroyer Zuiho Plane Guard Invasion Force Kongo Kongo Fast Battleship Battleship Division 3 Section 1 Invasion Force Hiei Kongo Fast Battleship Battleship Division 3 Section 1 Invasion Force Atago Takao Heavy Cruisers Cruiser Division 4 Section 1 Invasion Force Chokai Takao Heavy Cruisers Cruiser Division 4 Section 1 Invasion Force Myoko Myoko Heavy Cruisers Cruiser Division 5 Invasion Force Haguro Myoko Heavy Cruisers Cruiser Division 5 Invasion Force Yura Nagara Light Cruiser Destroyer Squadron 4 Invasion Force Flagship Vice Admiral Kondo Nobutake Mursame Shiratsuyu Destroyer Destroyer Division 3 Invasion Force Samidare Shiratsuyu Destroyer Destroyer Division 3 Invasion Force Harusame Shiratsuyu Destroyer Destroyer Division 3 Invasion Force Yudachi Shiratsuyu Destroyer Destroyer Division 3 Invasion Force Asagumo Asashio Destroyer Destroyer Division 9 Invasion Force Minegumo Asashio Destroyer Destroyer Division 9 Invasion Force Natsugumo Asashio Destroyer Destroyer Division 9 Invasion Force Oiler #9 Uknown Oiler Supply Group Invasion Force Oiler #10 Uknown Oiler Supply Group Invasion Force Oiler #11 Uknown Oiler Supply Group Invasion Force Oiler #12 Uknown Oiler Supply Group Invasion Force Akashi Akashi Repair Ship Supply Group Invasion Force Kumano Mogami Heavy Cruisers Cruiser Division 7 Close Support Group Suzuya Mogami Heavy Cruisers Cruiser Division 8 Close Support Group Mogami Mogami Heavy Cruisers Cruiser Division 9 Close Support Group Mikuma Mogami Heavy Cruisers Cruiser Division 10 Close Support Group Arashio Asashio Destroyer Destroyer Division 8 Close Support Group Asashio Asashio Destroyer Destroyer Division 9 Close Support Group Oiler #13 Uknown Oiler Supply Group Close Support Group Jintsu Sendai Light Cruiser Destroyer Squadron 2 Transport Group Kuroshio Kagero Destroyer Destroyer Division 15 Transport Group Oyashio Kagero Destroyer Destroyer Division 15 Transport Group Yukikaze Kagero Destroyer Destroyer Division 16 Transport Group Amatsukaze Kagero Destroyer Destroyer Division 16 Transport Group Tokitsukaze Kagero Destroyer Destroyer Division 16 Transport Group Hatsukaze Kagero Destroyer Destroyer Division 16 Transport Group Shiranuhi Kagero Destroyer Destroyer Division 18 Transport Group Kasumi Asashio Destroyer Destroyer Division 18 Transport Group Kagero Kagero Destroyer Destroyer Division 18 Transport Group Arare Asashio Destroyer Destroyer Division 18 Transport Group Transport #1 Unknown Transport Transport Group Transport Group Transport #2 Unknown Transport Transport Group Transport Group Transport #3 Unknown Transport Transport Group Transport Group Transport #4 Unknown Transport Transport Group Transport Group Transport #5 Unknown Transport Transport Group Transport Group Transport #6 Unknown Transport Transport Group Transport Group Transport #7 Unknown Transport Transport Group Transport Group Transport #8 Unknown Transport Transport Group Transport Group Transport #9 Unknown Transport Transport Group Transport Group Transport #10 Unknown Transport Transport Group Transport Group Transport #11 Unknown Transport Transport Group Transport Group Transport #12 Unknown Transport Transport Group Transport Group Patrol Boat 1 Minekazi Transport Transport Group Transport Group Patrol Boat 2 Minekazi Transport Transport Group Transport Group Patrol Boat 34 Momi Transport Transport Group Transport Group Akebono Maru Unknown Oiler Transport Group Transport Group Chitose Chitose Seaplane Tender Seaplane Group Seaplane Tender Group Kamikawa Maru Kamikawa Maru Seaplane Tender Seaplane Group Seaplane Tender Group Hayashio Kagero Destroyer Seaplane Group Seaplane Tender Group Patrol Boat 35 Momi Transport Seaplane Group Seaplane Tender Group Minesweeper #1 W-19? Minesweeper Minesweeper Group Minesweeper Group Minesweeper #2 W-19? Minesweeper Minesweeper Group Minesweeper Group Minesweeper #3 W-19? Minesweeper Minesweeper Group Minesweeper Group Minesweeper #4 W-19? Minesweeper Minesweeper Group Minesweeper Group Sub Chaser #1 CH-13? Sub-Chaser Minesweeper Group Minesweeper Group Sub Chaser #2 CH-13? Sub-Chaser Minesweeper Group Minesweeper Group Sub Chaser #3 CH-13? Sub-Chaser Minesweeper Group Minesweeper Group Cargo Ship #1 Unknown Cargo Transport Minesweeper Group Minesweeper Group Cargo Ship #2 Unknown Cargo Transport Minesweeper Group Minesweeper Group Cargo Ship #3 Unknown Cargo Transport Minesweeper Group Minesweeper Group I-168 Kadai Submarine Submarine Squadron 3 Advance Force I-169 Kadai Submarine Submarine Squadron 3 Advance Force I-171 Kadai Submarine Submarine Squadron 3 Advance Force I-174 Kadai Submarine Submarine Squadron 3 Advance Force I-175 Kadai Submarine Submarine Squadron 3 Advance Force I-156 Kadai Submarine Submarine Division 19 Advance Force I-157 Kadai Submarine Submarine Division 19 Advance Force I-158 Kadai Submarine Submarine Division 19 Advance Force I-159 Kadai Submarine Submarine Division 19 Advance Force I-162 Kadai Submarine Submarine Division 30 Advance Force I-165 Kadai Submarine Submarine Division 30 Advance Force I-166 Kadai Submarine Submarine Division 30 Advance Force I-121 I-121 Submarine Submarine Division 13 Advance Force I-122 I-122 Submarine Submarine Division 13 Advance Force I-123 I-123 Submarine Submarine Division 13 Advance Force A grand total of 147 vessels for Midway. The Japanese also launched an operation in the Aleutian Islands chain which is part of Alaska in addition to those sent to Midway. Note: This is for illustration and research purposes only and not a promise form the developers to make all these ships or have all these ships in any scene in the game. This information from very basic readily available sources like books and websites. There are likely mistakes or omissions. Regardless, the Japanese fleet that sailed to invade Midway Island is impressive and illustrates just how lucky the U.S. Navy was in stopping this armada at Midway. Just as important as the airplane was at Pearl Harbor in sinking so many American battleships, it was again the airplane that proved to be the decisive weapon and stopped the Japanese with the loss of four carriers. The U.S. fleet at Midway was outgunned and outnumbered by the IJN, but carrier warfare won the day, not a clash of cannons. The tide of the Pacific War turned after Midway and U.S. shipbuilding efforts eventually dwarfed even this mighty fleet. Note: This represents 38 distinct classes of ships with many large capital ships being unique designs. Edited June 20, 2022 by CountZero 1
Sobilak Posted June 20, 2022 Posted June 20, 2022 Midway will be nice, but career will be VERY SHORT. Midway planeset will be useful for online.
WIS-Redcoat Posted June 20, 2022 Posted June 20, 2022 Jason’s post about BOB being out is many years old. Things change. Battle of Britain would be incredibly popular 3
AEthelraedUnraed Posted June 20, 2022 Posted June 20, 2022 3 hours ago, CountZero said: They didnt ask for data on solomons or new guinea or burma, they specificly asked data on airplanes and ships for midway, its their first choice if they go pto for a reason, its delusional to think it could be anything els based on info they give and ask for. I think it's also delusional to read too much into a post of 5(!) years back and assume all of that still applies equally today. The game has changed, the team has changed, technologies have been created and discarded, the customer base has changed. I see no reason to, if Midway was the best option 5 years ago, assume that it still is now. 2 1
AndytotheD Posted June 20, 2022 Posted June 20, 2022 3 hours ago, CountZero said: … Again, a five year old post. Things could have changed in the meantime however I do see your point. Midway as an instalment of BoX would be characterised by a map that was mostly water which may allow for developer resources to be allocated to ships. A subjective assessment with a lot of key assumptions of course. Something else that may help is Jason recently stated that game engine limitations were not a limiting factor for large fleets of aircraft on a topic about heavy bombers. I can’t find the post so I stand by to be corrected. Perhaps the same advances they made there could be applied to ships?
YoYo Posted June 20, 2022 Author Posted June 20, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, WIS-Redcoat said: Jason’s post about BOB being out is many years old. Things change. Battle of Britain would be incredibly popular I dont think so, 1CGS has IL-2 Clod so BoB. There is no point in doing internal competition. Jason once said that's why they won't take care of the BoB in BoX series. Edited June 20, 2022 by YoYo 1
Ribbon Posted June 20, 2022 Posted June 20, 2022 On 6/19/2022 at 11:56 AM, CountZero said: This was posted after BoN started to be build, 0% chances we get anything PTO like: Pacific Comments When I took over development of Sturmovik I was convinced we could make a Pacific themed product without too much difficulty and shared that confidence with you. After getting neck deep in our development cycle for Kuban I realized the data and references I had where inadequate and my earlier confidence was a mistake. However, no matter how resourceful I am or how much I believe in the power of a strong will, I have yet to find a viable path to make this product to the standards you expect and within a time frame that pleases my business partners. This is why I have delayed any attempt to make a Pacific themed product to this point. Since I last spoke about this issue, I have had three different Japanese speaking people do research for me in Japan to help me find needed and known references that will help the team build some Japanese planes to our usual standards and no one came back with anything super useful. I have personally spent quite a bit of my own money and amassed quite a large library of books on Japanese planes and they come close to what we need, but not quite enough. We also face the challenge of building the carriers and support ships of the USN and IJN. Not so easy and an expensive part of the development. Plus, some serious and costly translations are needed to learn about every system and procedure of these planes like we do with our current aircraft. Building a A6M “Zeke” is not really the issue, there are enough references to build one for Sturmovik, but some of the other main-line but less-famous Japanese planes are more difficult. Committing my team to a product that only has a flyable Zero and a host of flyable American planes is not really a marketable option for our business model. We prefer to continue to build a full plane-set for each of our products. That’s what sells best for us. I will continue to search any resource I find including government sources for actionable and useful info on Japanese aircraft, especially their cockpits in my spare time. And thanks to those who have sent me info through our forum or email over the past two years. I appreciate it greatly. I still hold out hope that we can sail the Pacific at some point in the future. Jason I think you're overthinking about it too much! I really don't care what Jason said or gonna do, i just gave feedback as a long time customer that i'll only buy PTO or medium bomber (b25/26) or torpedo bomber. After all these years and expansions with basically same gameplay only PTO (or torpedo and medium bombers) can get my money.....it is a natural thing i guess, old player wanting new gameplay! What ever it'll be i wish them luck!
WIS-Redcoat Posted June 20, 2022 Posted June 20, 2022 4 hours ago, YoYo said: I dont think so, 1CGS has IL-2 Clod so BoB. There is no point in doing internal competition. Jason once said that's why they won't take care of the BoB in BoX series. Oh I don’t disagree that’s it’s unlikely, only that nothing is forever and it would be popular. If they did BOF we would have most of the planes anyway and the Normandy channel map. Double win 2
DD_Arthur Posted June 20, 2022 Posted June 20, 2022 3 hours ago, =VARP=Ribbon said: After all these years and expansions with basically same gameplay only PTO (or torpedo and medium bombers) can get my money.....it is a natural thing i guess, old player wanting new gameplay! What ever it'll be i wish them luck! Exactly this? 1
CountZero Posted June 21, 2022 Posted June 21, 2022 18 hours ago, AndytotheD said: ... Something else that may help is Jason recently stated that game engine limitations were not a limiting factor for large fleets of aircraft on a topic about heavy bombers. I can’t find the post so I stand by to be corrected. Perhaps the same advances they made there could be applied to ships? How many landing ships did we got shown in DDs in one place 20 tops, and that small ships with 1-2 AA gun, and i bet you aint gona be able to build missions with 100 of them. I have hard time beliving that BB or carrier with 50-80 AA guns would make game playable when placed in mission considering that every single aa positions has their own ai brain. Nothing is limiting factor when you spend money to optimise game engine, they would have to optimise it as now it would not work. 20 hours ago, WIS-Redcoat said: Jason’s post about BOB being out is many years old. Things change. Battle of Britain would be incredibly popular Why would they do BoB when they are still seling CloD that has BoB and can sim it better in bigger numbers of airplanes needed. Also regarding players thinking BoFrance is something GB will do, CloD have map and airplanes for it. ALso last time i here TF6 is still on, so clod is still their active game they are trying to sell so why would they make two games that give same thing. 3
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