Update 4.706 Arado AR 234 B-2.

[LG-1_BARCLAY]

It struck me that the rear armament (two 20 mm Mauser MG 151 cannons fixed to the rear)  is not available!?

 

Or am I wrong?

[YoYo]

12 minutes ago, LG-1_BARCLAY said:

It struck me that the rear armament (two 20 mm Mauser MG 151 cannons fixed to the rear)  is not available!?

 

Or am I wrong?

 

It was on C/D version:

[LG-1_BARCLAY]

Thanks YoYo for the information.

 

Until now, my information was that most B-1 and B-2 versions were equipped with rear armament.

C, D, E, P and R versions are known to me, are also hardly treated more exactly, since they did not come

from the planning or test phase beyond that ever to the employment.

 

 

In the books/websites etc. that I know of, this statement is made about the B-2 version, for example:

 

The Ar 234 B-2 was capable of flying reconnaissance or bombing missions and most aircraft were equipped with defensive armament to the rear.

This is actually curious, since this armament was heavy and the Ar 234 was actually fast enough to be immune to intercept attempts by

Allied fighters from the rear, except during takeoff or landing approaches to the airfield.
This armament consisted of two 20-mm MG 151 machine guns mounted horizontally and in parallel in the rear fuselage section, each fed with 200 rounds

from a magazine above. The guns could be aimed from the cockpit using the RF2C periscope.

 

Maybe there is still the possibility to select this armament as an armament kit? 

Of course this is an additional effort/work to confuse it.

I would be happy, because this is in my eyes but something to the realitit belongs.

 

How do you think about it?

 

Greeting L-1_BARCLAY

 

[AEthelraedUnraed]

10 minutes ago, LG-1_BARCLAY said:

In the books/websites etc. that I know of, this statement is made about the B-2 version

Would you mind sharing which books/websites you're talking about?

 

In "Strahlflugzeug Arado Ar 234 >>Blitz<<", Manfred Griehl, 2003, the following is said:

Am 04.03.1944 wurde vom General der Kampfflieger (GdK) festgelegt, dass die Ar 234 B-2 angesichts ihrer hohen Geschwindigkeit keiner Rückwärtsbewaffnung bedurfte.

"On March 4, 1944, the General der Kampfflieger decided that the Ar 234 didn't need any rear armament because of its high speed."

 

Which implies the B-2 didn't have a rear gun.

[LG-1_BARCLAY]

Thank you AEthelraedUnraed,

Please do not misunderstand, I am fully enthusiastic about BOS and all the aircraft. All samt Greatest work and I have great respect from the achievements that have been erpracht so far for this game!

(m 04.03.1944 it was determined by the General der Kampfflieger (GdK) that the Ar 234 B-2, in view of its high speed, did not need a backward armament. )

Does this mean that immediately on all Arados completed/delivered up to that time with rearward armament, this was removed, so that there were never operational Arados with this equipment in the force?

 

Greeting L-1_BARCLAY

 

z.B:

Die Luftwaffe
Tony Wood / Bill Gunston
Buch und Zeit Verlaggesellschaft mbH - Köln
Orginal:
Salamader Books Ltd 1977

https://www.weltkrieg2.de/ar-234-blitz/
https://de-academic.com/dic.nsf/dewiki/93525

 

[AEthelraedUnraed]

3 minutes ago, LG-1_BARCLAY said:

Does this mean that immediately on all Arados completed/delivered up to that time with rearward armament, this was removed, so that there were never operational Arados with this equipment in the force?

This was on March 4, 1944. The first prototype Ar-234B only flew on March 10. In other words, there were no production series Arados completed/delivered up to that time, and there wouldn't be for a couple more months.

[CountZero]

We have ar-234B-2 with 2x20mm gunpod option, it would not be far from what we already have to just add also option for 2x20mm rear guns... maybe even swept wings, and 4 engines and there has to be more what if options airplane could have... rocket engines , fritz guided missiles ... alles gute for z axis wonderwaffe , but god forbid if P-38 have 150 octan option ? 

 

they draw it on papers so it haz to be on airplane in game, are you sure that atleast a single one did have it, if it did we have to have it in game ? :

Edited June 18, 2022 by CountZero

[saldy]

Pilots had the rear weapons removed from the aircraft. Why? This unnecessary weight only slowed their plane.

[AndyJWest]

I've seen photo's somewhere of an Pe-2 equipped with rearward-firing rockets mounted on the rear fuselage. Which makes more sense than the guns on the Arado, given the Pe-2s relatively slow speed, and the fact that anyone attacking from behind would at least be aware of them as the rockets sailed past. Such armament requires manoeuvring in such a manner as to present an easy shot for your opponent, is impossible to aim at any plausible target with any degree of accuracy, and can function only as a deterrent. A length of rope with a half-brick on the end would probably be as effective.

 

Edit - found a photo: 

Edited June 18, 2022 by AndyJWest

[Lusekofte]

Any periscope aimed device designed to shoot down other aircraft failed to be effective. It is just not plausible a attacking ac will gently fly into the sight. Blenheim  had a belly turrets they soon got rid of due to same issues. 

[LukeFF]

2 hours ago, AEthelraedUnraed said:

This was on March 4, 1944. The first prototype Ar-234B only flew on March 10. In other words, there were no production series Arados completed/delivered up to that time, and there wouldn't be for a couple more months.

 

And, furthermore, there were 0 operational planes fitted with rear-facing cannons. There was at least one KG 76 pilot (I think it was Hansgeorg Baetcher) who demanded they be fitted after a few planes were shot down around February 1945, but demanding something and that demand actually being fulfilled are 2 entirely different things. ?

Edited June 18, 2022 by LukeFF

[Avimimus]

If people really want to try the fixed rear armament - Il-2 1946 often goes for only around $3 (e.g. on GoG) and the Arado in it has the fixed rear guns. One can bait the AI behind you and then open fire - but it is, in my opinion, largely a novelty feature. In any real campaign mission evasive action or diving away would be the better choice.

 

I'm usually all for letting players experiment (and I'm enjoying the gun pod a lot)... but I feel like the Il-2 1946 experience of the fixed rearward firing guns was sufficient for me.

  

3 hours ago, AndyJWest said:

I've seen photo's somewhere of an Pe-2 equipped with rearward-firing rockets mounted on the rear fuselage. Which makes more sense than the guns on the Arado, given the Pe-2s relatively slow speed, and the fact that anyone attacking from behind would at least be aware of them as the rockets sailed past. Such armament requires manoeuvring in such a manner as to present an easy shot for your opponent, is impossible to aim at any plausible target with any degree of accuracy, and can function only as a deterrent. A length of rope with a half-brick on the end would probably be as effective.

 

That might actually have some effect - especially as the early ROS-82 had a time fused warhead... so the attacker would definitely see it detonating in front of them. Psychologically if not physically effective!

 

I believe some Pe-3 carried a fixed rearward firing gun in the tail to help make up for the blind-spot introduced with the deletion of the ventral gunner. He-111 variants also carried a fixed rearward firing gun in their tail blind spot, as did some Do-217 variants. Again, mainly psychologically effective.

[LG-1_BARCLAY]

Thanks to all.

It was just a question!

More information is always helpful!

I had also thought about what the point of the rear armament would be, since it would actually only be of any use if you were flying so slowly that an enemy came within range.

Aiming and shooting on landing approach seems very problematic to me.

Edited June 18, 2022 by LG-1_BARCLAY

[EAF19_Marsh]

Wasn’t there an He-111 mod with a rearward firing flamethrower, the net result of which was to attract RAF fighter that thought it was an easy kill already on its way down.

 

Oh well, nice try…

[Elem]

More importantly, how do you aim the two 20 mm in the pod mod. No sight available.

[SYN_Ricky]

20 minutes ago, Elem said:

More importantly, how do you aim the two 20 mm in the pod mod. No sight available.

You use the periscope sight, it has a reticle 

[Elem]

1 hour ago, SYN_Ricky said:

You use the periscope sight, it has a reticle 

And the default keys are?

[Bando]

Shift-V