pilot killed in soft belly landing

[III/JG52_Otto_-I-]

From two patch ago, the belly landing is always a mortal practice for the pilot. 
Casually i was recording video of the flight and i have a evidence of my pilot was killed in a soft belly landing when G´s gauge show numbers withing  0 to 2 G,s

Spoiler

minute 5:33


Minute 5:34 in a 2 G´s bump

As a reference, we know that a typical carrier landing with arresting wire, cause a 3 G´s deceleratión to the pilot, and he don´t dead.
I think that the today pilot damage model is ridiculously mortal.

Edited June 13, 2022 by III/JG52_Otto_-I-

[69th_Mobile_BBQ]

19 minutes ago, III/JG52_Otto_-I- said:

From two patch ago, the belly landing is always a mortal practice for the pilot. 
Casually i was recording video of the flight and i have a evidence of my pilot was killed in a soft belly landing when G´s gauge show numbers withing  0 to 2 G,s

  Reveal hidden contents

minute 5:33


Minute 5:34 in a 2 G´s bump

As a reference, we know that a typical carrier landing with arresting wire, cause a 3 G´s deceleratión to the pilot, and he don´t dead.
I think that the today pilot damage model is ridiculously mortal.

 

Much more exaggerated in multiplayer it seems.  Don't know why, but in Single, I get much better results from the same conditions of belly landing.

[Knarley-Bob]

The thing is, this has been talked about before. They will close this thread because of that, they have done it before...... go figure.

[Monksilver]

1 hour ago, III/JG52_Otto_-I- said:

From two patch ago, the belly landing is always a mortal practice for the pilot. 

Not always, I just did it in a 109-F4 without any problems when I lost my engine. I just reduced my speed as low as possible with the flaps lowered to avoid a stall when doing so. Put it down at a gentle angle with wheels up in a fieldand no problems - was actually better than my landings on runways with wheels down.

[SCG_motoadve]

If done properly its very survivable, however there are some things that are not consistent.

 

[III/JG52_Otto_-I-]

1 hour ago, SCG_motoadve said:

If done properly its very survivable, however there are some things that are not consistent.

 

This video is not valid for me,  because we can´t see de G gauge, airspeed, etc. in game., and we can´t see how many G´s do you have in the touchdown. 
by the way, tracks recorded from months ago, don't show the today problem. 

Edited June 13, 2022 by III/JG52_Otto_-I-

[III/JG52_Otto_-I-]

As an example i share here are some real belly landings. They seem more violent than the ones we do in the game.
In these, the pilot and the aircraft survived.
 

Spoiler

P-51D

 

BF-109

 

 

[SCG_motoadve]

1 hour ago, III/JG52_Otto_-I- said:

This video is not valid for me,  because we can´t see de G gauge, airspeed, etc. in game., and we can´t see how many G´s do you have in the touchdown. 
by the way, tracks recorded from months ago, don't show the today problem. 

This tracks were recorded today, and shows that you can survive ditching time after time if done properly.

[Charon]

5 hours ago, SCG_motoadve said:

If done properly its very survivable, however there are some things that are not consistent.

It's not impossible, no. The problem is that it's fatal unless done perfectly, despite many accounts of real life pilots surviving hard crashes.

[Art-J]

@Otto, here's more reference data on the subject:

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/78143-belly-landings-with-fighters-and-bombers-are-acceptable-but-must-be-improved/

[III/JG52_Otto_-I-]

9 hours ago, SCG_motoadve said:

This tracks were recorded today, and shows that you can survive ditching time after time if done properly.

But we can't see G's gauge, and we can't know how hard is your landing.

By the way, i can do a perfertly soft belly landing and survive one time of 10, but this not mean that the pilot damage model is reallistic.

A real pilot properly sitting and tied with his safety harness, can surviving a crash landing of 3 G's or more. In game we can't do it.

Edited June 14, 2022 by III/JG52_Otto_-I-

[-250H-Ursus_]

Everytime someone actually wants to tell me that current almost certain death ditch "Simulates well how it was".
Water is worst than ground, and the pilot is there.

 

 

IMHO Current system needs to be improved. First one was so permisive to the point to land at 500 and nothing happens.
Now you have to cross your fingers in order to not die, is more dangerous ditch than bailing out, ironically, even, you can get hurt, and by hurt, critically wounded by bumping, when you land with the gear in a propper airfield. That only happened to me once, didn't expected such a random feat

Edited June 14, 2022 by -332FG-Ursus_

[Spidey002]

Agreed. I notice this with the Spitfire more than other planes. I’ll do a harder landing, and the plane will survive and taxi on down the runway with a dead pilot. 

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

Ditching survivability is broken imho.  Died at low speeds , without any significant G load. BTW survivability is not only about G but the time at given G. Human can survive 45 G deacceleration during 0.06 seconds time, 20G for  1s without injures. 

 

Edited June 28, 2022 by 1PL-Husar-1Esk

[Enceladus828]

To get this issue with belly landings, ground loopings, and even slightly hard landings but not enough to break the landing gear being almost always fatal fixed, it's probably best to just PM the devs about this issue as it has been going on seven months now at the earliest and despite all the threads nothing has been said about it by the devs.

 

I recently PM'd one of the devs with several examples and hope to hear back or that they'll look in to fixing it.

 

Cheers

Edited June 28, 2022 by Enceladus
Forgot to add fixed, lol

[Knarley-Bob]

If it makes any difference, watched an AI pilot dead stick glide a 109, full flaps as pretty as you please onto a smooth snow-covered field. Textbook landing.

Yup, it killed him too. So, both sides are getting it.

[CUJO_1970]

It’s hopelessly broken and has been for months. 

[IckyATLAS]

On 6/13/2022 at 10:27 PM, III/JG52_Otto_-I- said:

From two patch ago, the belly landing is always a mortal practice for the pilot. 
Casually i was recording video of the flight and i have a evidence of my pilot was killed in a soft belly landing when G´s gauge show numbers withing  0 to 2 G,s

  Reveal hidden contents

minute 5:33


Minute 5:34 in a 2 G´s bump

As a reference, we know that a typical carrier landing with arresting wire, cause a 3 G´s deceleratión to the pilot, and he don´t dead.
I think that the today pilot damage model is ridiculously mortal.

Vertical G was not more than 2 but horizontal G was maybe very high?

 

[ACG_Ginger]

I think it's the force of the landing , I have banged hard wheels up and died , then yesterday belly landed a mustang in a field slow and tail first and survived ? 

 

[352ndOscar]

Did you account for the tree limb laying on the ground that punched thru the bottom of the plane and into your chest?  You know, kinda like that 3/4 inch bolt you ran over in the car….

[SCG_motoadve]

I prefer what we have now than the immortals pilots we had before when belly landing.

BTW if you do it right , its very highly survivable.

[Denum]

There's always has to be that one person defending something that's broken because "it works fine for me"

 

? 

 

 

Seems way worse in multiplayer. Single player I don't have any issues yet while messing around.

 

I've just starting bailing out in multiplayer. It's not worth the RNG factor of it. 

Edited June 29, 2022 by Denum

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

6 hours ago, SCG_motoadve said:

I prefer what we have now than the immortals pilots we had before when belly landing.

BTW if you do it right , its very highly survivable.

It's not right to go from one extremity to another. Same as plane explosion where it never happened to it happens frequently or ww1 planes wings strength,  were like concrete now are to fragile. No balance just math done right, I'm poking RNG.  I think they could do proper spine strength modeling instead use what we have now for suden dacceleration. The problem manifests also midair when two planes do touch each other resulting instant death of both pilots. 

Edited June 29, 2022 by 1PL-Husar-1Esk

[SCG_motoadve]

2 hours ago, 1PL-Husar-1Esk said:

It's not right to go from one extremity to another. Same as plane explosion where it never happened to it happens frequently or ww1 planes wings strength,  were like concrete now are to fragile. No balance just math done right, I'm poking RNG.  I think they could do proper spine strength modeling instead use what we have now for suden dacceleration. The problem manifests also midair when two planes do touch each other resulting instant death of both pilots. 

Agreed on both, and  all those fires and explosions' so often makes this sim feel arcade.

[KevPBur]

When the code was changed I couldn't even gaurantee a wheels down landing on an airfield.

I quickly learnt how to land properly and I haven't died unexpectedly from a (crash) landing since including a forward roll when the La-5 brakes unexpectadly worked!

From my exculively single player experience I would say there is nothing wrong with the code now.

 

However, if people are reporting a disparency in multiplayer I wonder if it may be due to g spikes caused by lag or stutters or general server communication.

I have no idea whether the devs can mitigate for that is code without making the pilots superhuman again.

 

I know people can endlessly produce photo's of crash landings that pilots have walked away from. It is also try that these are the lucky exceptions and photo's are perhaps not kept of the many that the pilots did not walk away from.

 

[-250H-Ursus_]

14 hours ago, Denum said:

There's always has to be that one person defending something that's broken because "it works fine for me"

 

?

 

 

Seems way worse in multiplayer. Single player I don't have any issues yet while messing around.

 

I've just starting bailing out in multiplayer. It's not worth the RNG factor of it. 

Sure always will be the type of person who defend the super letal ditching argumenting that is the "next step in simulation" thing, regardless of all evidence provided, survival testimonies, sea-ditchings which are more rough and yet, one can survive, videos of real ditchings, photographs, and the paradox of ditching beign more lethal than bailing out, and medical data, even.

But, as one friend said to me. "Everything can start with just a bit of ignorance of a topic for start the snowball effect"

Edited June 29, 2022 by -332FG-Ursus_

[Knarley-Bob]

I can't believe some of the landings on the dirt airbases don't kill you on a good landing. Those Russian strips are like a plowed field! Or is it just the suspension on their birds?

[Bilbo_Baggins]

Gunther Rall crash landed his BF109 in a ravine and broke his back in 3 places, yet still survived. I think in the interview he said he remembers going straight through a wall. The engine ended up flying out the airframe and landed 50m away!

 

I guess it all comes down to luck.

Edited July 1, 2022 by Bilbo_Baggins

[jollyjack]

On 6/14/2022 at 12:48 AM, SCG_motoadve said:

If done properly its very survivable, however there are some things that are not consistent.

 

 

Now a nice vid with tree top landings?

[No.10_Ace_Ivo]

Hi everyone,

 

Here a track showing the pilot and gunner getting killed instantly when the wing of my Bristol hit a fence at an airfield with a slight touch.

This happens very often now and really hope it gets addressed.

S!

 

PilotKilled_Track.rar

[6./ZG26_Loke]

Landed my un-damaged Ju-88 last night, but it span around when I exit the runway which caused a wheel to brake. No big deal actually, if it had not been for all the crew be get killed. 

Please fix it so pilot and crew do not get killed for nothing. 

[OG__Iceman_VR]

On 6/13/2022 at 1:27 PM, III/JG52_Otto_-I- said:

From two patch ago, the belly landing is always a mortal practice for the pilot. 
Casually i was recording video of the flight and i have a evidence of my pilot was killed in a soft belly landing when G´s gauge show numbers withing  0 to 2 G,s

  Reveal hidden contents

minute 5:33


Minute 5:34 in a 2 G´s bump

As a reference, we know that a typical carrier landing with arresting wire, cause a 3 G´s deceleratión to the pilot, and he don´t dead.
I think that the today pilot damage model is ridiculously mortal.

Try Landing a 262 on a dirt Runway. I can't tell you how many times I made a perfect landing on the Finish server only to see my pilot die but the plane take no damage on a perfect Landing. This new feature they did with Landing is about as awesome as what they did with the sun and VR. If I could I would roll the entire game back to before they change the Sun and this new Landing physics.

Edited July 2, 2022 by BlindedVR_The_SUN_isBroken

[Bulhoes_Neto]

https://streamable.com/y84lah
https://streamable.com/8fnr90 

Look this

[69th_Mobile_BBQ]

Oddly enough, planes that have a tendency to break wings when going high-G (but not higher than their respective ratings for G-max) seems exaggerated in multiplayer.  Just like the landings.  In single player, it seems to not be as much of an issue.    

[Bulhoes_Neto]

 

[Bulhoes_Neto]