Mosquito navigator disappear?

[Mainstay]

Okay…. My navigator gets shot while hunting He111’s and dies. 
 

After half a minute or so he disappeared into thin air! Leaving an empty seat?

Why? Why is this happening? It makes the sim so weird and unrealistic in the simplistic ways. 
 

I noticed this issue earlier with planes I shot down that have the same issue. Why is this even a thing? 

[Asgar]

sounds super realistic to me, you kicked him out before he starts to smell ? 

[spreckair]

It would be nice to have a modification option of flying without the navigator at all.

Edited June 10, 2022 by spreckair

[Monksilver]

 

 

If you are old enough you will understand.

[69th_Panp]

2 hours ago, spreckair said:

It would be nice to have a modification option of flying without the navigator at all.

yes it would, the guy creeps me out ?  he fricken never blinks ?

[busdriver]

4 hours ago, Mainstay said:

Why? Why is this happening? 

 

He's dead. No real entertainment benefit of showing a dead guy next to you.

[Guest deleted@50488]

Rendering time / cycles can be saved... for more important stuff...

[354thFG_Leifr]

9 hours ago, busdriver said:

 

He's dead. No real entertainment benefit of showing a dead guy next to you.

 

He is functionally useless any way; can't be used by another player, cannot be used with an AI brain.

Pretty boggling waste of time.

[DD_Friar]

Could I shoot him with my hand gun?

[DD_Crash]

Worth a go

[DD_Friar]

Tried it, you can't. You can fire a flare out of the top, but no gun

[Jade_Monkey]

2 hours ago, Leifr said:

 

He is functionally useless any way; can't be used by another player, cannot be used with an AI brain.

Pretty boggling waste of time.

 

If they left it empty people would be losing their minds. No way to win for the devs unless he was perfect AI that can have casual conversations on a 5 hr flight.

Edited June 11, 2022 by Jade_Monkey

[RedeyeStorm]

I am surprised why people expect him to do anything. None of the gunnners/navigators/bomardiers contribute anything conversation wise (let's leave the gunners gunning ablility out of this :)). So why would the  mossie be any different?

[Noisemaker]

1 hour ago, RedeyeStorm said:

I am surprised why people expect him to do anything. None of the gunnners/navigators/bomardiers contribute anything conversation wise (let's leave the gunners gunning ablility out of this :)). So why would the  mossie be any different?

How cool would that be though?  A little Memphis Belle like crew banter on the way to the target, until things get serious, and then concern for wounded colleagues on the way back.  That would up the immersion significantly (Even though it will annoy the people who can't stand the radio as it is).

[firdimigdi]

1 hour ago, Jade_Monkey said:

 

If they left it empty people would be losing their minds. No way to win for the devs unless he was perfect AI that can have casual conversations on a 5 hr flight.

 

Not to mention the very real risk of him never shutting up if they did make him talk.

[firdimigdi]

25 minutes ago, Irishratticus72 said:

*sex. There, I fixed it for you. 

 

Geoffrey you dog, I said "give us a quick duck".

[354thFG_Leifr]

4 hours ago, Jade_Monkey said:

 

If they left it empty people would be losing their minds. No way to win for the devs unless he was perfect AI that can have casual conversations on a 5 hr flight.

 

I am not asking for perfect AI capable of holding conversation or plotting courses; but at least have him act in the same manner as all other AI entities in multi-crew aircraft. He hasn't even got a gun to shoot back with, shouldn't be a problem for folk?

[DBFlyguy]

It would be nice if he gave call outs, "bandit 5 o'clock high"...."bogeys 10 o'clock high"... something.  If/When he's killed, he should remain in the cockpit and not disappear,  this is supposed to be a combat sim after all.  Hopefully the devs flesh out the functionality a bit more... I don't think folks are expecting "Heablur Jester" levels of functionality but doing absolutely nothing but blocking your view is a bit... disappointing.

[Jade_Monkey]

1 hour ago, Leifr said:

 

I am not asking for perfect AI capable of holding conversation or plotting courses; but at least have him act in the same manner as all other AI entities in multi-crew aircraft. He hasn't even got a gun to shoot back with, shouldn't be a problem for folk?

 

If he doesn't have s gun, what else you want him to do? 

 

What does "act in the same manner as all other AI entities in multi-crew aircraft" even mean? That you can hop into that position and do nothing? None of the crew that don't have guns are manable in any other plane (e.g. Ju52)

[354thFG_Leifr]

40 minutes ago, Jade_Monkey said:

 

If he doesn't have s gun, what else you want him to do? 

 

What does "act in the same manner as all other AI entities in multi-crew aircraft" even mean? That you can hop into that position and do nothing? None of the crew that don't have guns are manable in any other plane (e.g. Ju52)

 

At the risk of repeating myself (it was discussed in the Mosquito thread, and I'm not the only one with this opinion); the navigator in the Mosquito is dead weight. At the least, he should callout targets in the same manner as other AI entities. Currently he sits there, with dead eyes, getting in the way... it's better to just shoot the man on spawn and let his body disappear.

[Koziolek]

5 hours ago, Firdimigdi said:

 

Not to mention the very real risk of him never shutting up if they did make him talk.

Can you imagine , him yelling  ...target destroyed, target destroyed ... 73 times every time you hit a truck? ?

[Yogiflight]

1 hour ago, Koziolek said:

Can you imagine , him yelling  ...target destroyed, target destroyed ... 73 times every time you hit a truck? ?

What annoys me much more is my pilot bot constantly telling me which aircraft I am attacking now, in his opinion.

[RedeyeStorm]

12 hours ago, Leifr said:

 

At the risk of repeating myself (it was discussed in the Mosquito thread, and I'm not the only one with this opinion); the navigator in the Mosquito is dead weight. At the least, he should callout targets in the same manner as other AI entities. Currently he sits there, with dead eyes, getting in the way... it's better to just shoot the man on spawn and let his body disappear.

In that case I am curious as to what you hear. All I hear is gunners saying ‘enemy attacking’, ‘firing’ and enemy out of range’ which is not terribly useful to begin with. Especially because those callouts are made for any enemy that flies in and out of range and does not mean that plane is in a position to attack.

 

Will agree that it would be awesome if AI crewmembers would give out direction calls. Mayby someday. But then the crewman in DCS Mossie is just along for the ride as well.

[Yogiflight]

18 minutes ago, RedeyeStorm said:

those callouts are made for any enemy that flies in and out of range and does not mean that plane is in a position to attack.

This is the one reason, why I order my gunner always to shoot at short range. Apart from the fact, that he won't shoot at anything unfriendly in 1km distance or so, which doesn't make any sense and is pure waste of ammunition, he also calls out enemy aircrafts in an interesting distance, so usually aircrafts simply passing somewhere behind me are left out of his callouts.

[IckyATLAS]

A dead guy in a plane remains dead where he has fallen and we should respect that and bring back the body(ies) if possible. This is how things should be. Punkt Schluss!

[Yogiflight]

18 minutes ago, IckyATLAS said:

Punkt Schluss!

You mean Aus, Äpfel, Amen or the Schröder: Basta

 

Yes it is weird having the bodies disappear.

[PatrickAWlson]

I killed him and tossed him out after I saw my girlfriends picture on his side of the cockpit.  I knew that personal sidearm would come in handy one day.

[Stonehouse]

Not wanting to derail the humour as there have been some good ones here but just to pass the info that there is a destroy delay in sec in the pilot and gunner NPC definitions. Set to 15 secs in stock. So object despawns this many secs after death. 

[DD_Friar]

@Stonehouse

Will messing about with this file invalidate playing on line and does it open up the possibility to go the other way and make my pilot "invulnerable", and so making it a cheat? 

[Stonehouse]

Probably will stop you joining a mods off server I think. I'm not sure if the NPC definitions are used for human pilots but if they were then you could give your pilot a lot of hit points making them harder to kill I guess. It would have to be tested to find out if the game uses these files or something else........not sure at this point what the something else would be.

[Stonehouse]

Passing thought - the definition files are often used by multiple aircraft and also all aircraft of a type so even if the "invunerable" pilot idea worked you might find out that any aircraft the same as yours gets the extra hit points. So even if it worked might not be practical.

[jollyjack]

On 6/13/2022 at 5:10 AM, PatrickAWlson said:

I killed him and tossed him out after I saw my girlfriends picture on his side of the cockpit. 

 

If this is her i would think twice:

 

Edited June 22, 2022 by jollyjack

[Chief_Mouser]

All this talk about ditching the poor nav. You wait 'til fuel management arrives - he's the only one that can change tanks etc. The switches are BEHIND the pilot's seat. Without him, or some very novel pilot animation, you're going to be screwed as soon as you get a fuel leak.

Interesting too to see what the devs do about it when at present he's just a great big lump.

[Guster]

On 6/11/2022 at 5:08 PM, Noisemaker said:

How cool would that be though?  A little Memphis Belle like crew banter on the way to the target, until things get serious, and then concern for wounded colleagues on the way back.  That would up the immersion significantly (Even though it will annoy the people who can't stand the radio as it is).

 

Serious like this?

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOiO_ED58HI

[Enceladus828]

On 6/10/2022 at 3:02 PM, Mainstay said:

I noticed this issue earlier with planes I shot down that have the same issue. Why is this even a thing? 

Giving you a realistic answer here, the reason is likely to do with the how the game is coded. Unlike in IL-2 1946 and CloD, the Rise of Flight game engine (which this game has its roots in) had it where once the pilot or crewmember died they disappeared after 20 or so seconds as there was really no point of their body remaining motionless in the airplane for any longer than that. The pilot or crewmember disappearing after he has been killed probably reduces the CPU or GPU load on your PC. This is also why if you kill the pilot or you bail out and the plane keeps flying the plane will eventually disappear because without the pilot there's no point in watching the plane fly endlessly for more than a few minutes.

 

That's my 2 cents on this.

[Noisemaker]

35 minutes ago, Guster said:

 

Serious like this?

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOiO_ED58HI

Yeah, pretty much exactly like that.  That kind of panic on the comms (or directly from our in cockpit navigator/co-pilot) would push this sim way beyond the competition in terms of immersion, at least as far as SP is concerned.  In multi-crewed MP, the crew members can react for themselves (A la Bo and Bismark), but for SP, we're missing this.

[Guster]

16 hours ago, Noisemaker said:

Yeah, pretty much exactly like that.  That kind of panic on the comms (or directly from our in cockpit navigator/co-pilot) would push this sim way beyond the competition in terms of immersion, at least as far as SP is concerned.  In multi-crewed MP, the crew members can react for themselves (A la Bo and Bismark), but for SP, we're missing this.

 

I have ambivalent feelings about it, and perhaps it's a bit unfair as this is a top-notch production with high-quality CGI, a score and great acting, all designed to manipulate the audience and evoke certain feelings. Notice for example how the scene cuts from the pilot to the girl at the end, as if she hears him scream. But there's something about it that makes me think it would be really cool to have something like this in the game.

 

On the one hand I sometimes miss the, shall we say, enthusiasm one could hear, particularly in the German voice acting, in the original IL-2 game, and on the other hand I think the shaky but cool, calm and collected dialogue in the Spitfire scenes in Dunkirk was terrific in an understated sort of way. Either way one should consider that the player will likely hear these samples thousands of times, so they better be good and appropriate.

 

One thing is voice acting and general sound design, and I'm all for that, but I think it should be a priority if the devs focused on what is being said and when, so that the in-air dialogue first of all makes sense.