Ships beyond the (Normandy) Horizon?

[jollyjack]

Just out of curiosity about a possible time frame as in when and where they show up (guess there's a lot of work going into it): here are a few announced examples ...

Alas a player ship like a torpedo boat would be off limits for a flight sim, but it could be really nice. Or a gun boat with flak ....

 

Quote from the DDs:

"The work on various naval and ground units for BoN continues - there are several ship types that participated in the landing, including landing craft and radar-equipped ones ..."

 

---------------------------------------------------

According DD#299 ships are coming:

 

 

 

And DD#293:

 

 

DD#291:

 

 

 

DD#280 ships and assets:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There must be some more?

 

 

[AEthelraedUnraed]

I'm actually more interested in when the announced static objects will become available:

As static objects, once the 3d model and hitbox are done, they shouldn't require any more work to import, so I can only guess as to why they haven't been released yet.

[BlitzPig_EL]

Really looking forward to that USN destroyer.  It will give mission builders a ship with real anti aircraft ability, unlike the Russian destroyer that poses almost zero threat to attacking aircraft.  In fact it will be the most powerful surface warfare asset in the sim, assuming we don't get a cruiser or battleship.

[CountZero]

2 hours ago, jollyjack said:

Just out of curiosity about a possible time frame as in when and where they show up (guess there's a lot of work going into it): here are a few announced examples ...

Alas a player ship like a torpedo boat would be off limits for a flight sim, but it could be really nice. Or a gun boat with flak ....

 

Quote from the DDs:

"The work on various naval and ground units for BoN continues - there are several ship types that participated in the landing, including landing craft and radar-equipped ones ..."

 

---------------------------------------------------

According DD#299 ships are coming:

 

 

 

And DD#293:

 

 

DD#291:

 

 

 

DD#280 ships and assets:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There must be some more?

 

 

I think thats all you gona get, small and medium type ships, dont expect cruisers, monitors or battleships, lack of them also makes it clear we are still no where close to PTO, as this was perfect chance to add bigger ships if PTO was in near future, so i expect next dlc to be again this channel map maybe with area first proposed that go less suth but more east and in 1943 or 1942 era.

[ShamrockOneFive]

I'm sure these ships are on their way and will come close to the end of the dev cycle for Normandy. I can see the map and these ships coming at the same time or in close proximity to each other.

 

I also wouldn't read into them not doing a larger capital ship as part of this. Clearly this was an opportunity to fill the ranks with some ships and they have focused on some key types. There are any so many dev cycles present in a big project and most of them very likely spent on aircraft and the map. If PTO is next they won't have to build these types and can spend dev cycles on others.

[YouBet]

3 hours ago, ShamrockOneFive said:

If PTO is next they won't have to build these types and can spend dev cycles on others.

Your lips to God's ears.

[Avimimus]

I always thought it would be good to have a British motor gunboat to escort the landing craft (and patrol the coasts, and fight eboats)... But honestly, I'd be quite a bit more excited if it was announced that a hitbox was being added for every ship to simulate waterline hits (and cause them to do more damage)!  Right now the AP 25lb RP-3 and 57mm molins are relatively useless... it is always better to pick 60lb SAP RP-3 and 4x20mm cannons when attacking ships... and that shouldn't be the case.

 

[Jade_Monkey]

All items in DD280 are already in-game.

 

The rest will come soon I guess.

[Enceladus828]

What we're greatly missing in this game is Axis ships. We have a lot of Allied ships for Axis planes to attack like the Destroyer Type 7, Gleaves class destroyer, amphibious boats and Liberty class vessel (once BoN is released), but we have hardly any ships for allied aircraft to attack. All that's there at the moment is a Type IIB German submarine and smaller ships like the Schnellboote and Type A Landing barge, as well as a Freighter and Tanker which can be used by either side (and maybe with BoN a few more small ships), but that's it. The Vifor class destroyer nor the Amiral Murgescu are in the game.

 

At the moment, Desert Wings-Tobruk has the best depiction of ships with Battleships, cruisers, destroyers, submarines, torpedo boats and many supply ships.

 

If the devs aren't going to an area which will have a considerable amount of ships like the Pacific, Sicily or Finland then they should add some more Axis ships to the game in areas already covered like BoN and BoK.

Edited June 8, 2022 by Enceladus

[IckyATLAS]

High quality ships deserve high quality sea. And the sea needs a real big uplift.

The one in Kuban is far from excellent. Let's hope that as per the important improvements in atmospheric simulation like clouds and lighting there will be a big improvement for the sea. Like:

• Waves moving in the direction of the wind.
• Waves not limited to be a circle just one or two hundred meters around the camera viewpoint in an otherwise flat sea, which makes it weird.
• In ports or harbors calmer sea even if outside it is rough.
• Better simulation of ships bow ploughing in waves and sea instead of a very rough spray ball.
• And finally also a better view of ships, boats or subs in rough sea, that in Kuban when looked at from sea level, seem to jump out of the water at each wave like horses jumping on an obstacle.
• These improvements should also become applicable to the Kuban sea.

Let's hope we get at least some of these points implemented.

 

[AEthelraedUnraed]

33 minutes ago, IckyATLAS said:

• Waves not limited to be a circle just one or two hundred meters around the camera viewpoint in an otherwise flat sea, which makes it weird.
• Better simulation of ships bow ploughing in waves and sea instead of a very rough spray ball.
• And finally also a better view of ships, boats or subs in rough sea, that in Kuban when looked at from sea level, seem to jump out of the water at each wave like horses jumping on an obstacle.

  3D models only extend a couple of hundred metres for a reason. They're very resource-heavy. Same for having more spray effects.

Better ship physics also comes at a higher CPU cost, in a game that's already struggling with large amounts of units. Given that IL2 is an aircraft/tank simulator and not a ship simulator, I am satisfied with the way it is.

 

33 minutes ago, IckyATLAS said:

• In ports or harbors calmer sea even if outside it is rough.
• These improvements should also become applicable to the Kuban sea.

This one actually already has been implemented on the Kuban sea. See the following screenshot. The open sea close to the camera has high waves, while the bay has tiny waves and a slightly different colour.

 

The Kuban sea is fine, IMO. I just hope they'll upgrade the BOBP map with similar features, as well as shore waves.

[IckyATLAS]

I do not agree, and your image seems pretty strange as the limit between waves and no waves is like a straight line which is weird. Please can you indicate on the map which bay it is, I would like to check.

Here pictures of the Novorossiysk harbor which is in a bay and there is absolutely no difference with the open sea.

 

 

 

 

 

Port structures are nonexistent, and we are at the bays end where stands the port. Waves should be minimal at least inside the port.

 

[CountZero]

3 hours ago, IckyATLAS said:

High quality ships deserve high quality sea. And the sea needs a real big uplift.

The one in Kuban is far from excellent. Let's hope that as per the important improvements in atmospheric simulation like clouds and lighting there will be a big improvement for the sea. Like:

• Waves moving in the direction of the wind.
• Waves not limited to be a circle just one or two hundred meters around the camera viewpoint in an otherwise flat sea, which makes it weird.
• In ports or harbors calmer sea even if outside it is rough.
• Better simulation of ships bow ploughing in waves and sea instead of a very rough spray ball.
• And finally also a better view of ships, boats or subs in rough sea, that in Kuban when looked at from sea level, seem to jump out of the water at each wave like horses jumping on an obstacle.
• These improvements should also become applicable to the Kuban sea.

Let's hope we get at least some of these points implemented.

 

I just dont se this happening, if they planed any changes on ships or sea behavior they would say so in DDs earlyer. Maybe something changes after BoN is out but i doubt ppl care that mutch about realistic sea.

[AEthelraedUnraed]

2 hours ago, IckyATLAS said:

I do not agree, and your image seems pretty strange as the limit between waves and no waves is like a straight line which is weird.

And eliminating that will again make the shaders more complicated. Let me ask you a question; how much FPS are you willing to sacrifice for your improved sea?

 

And how much development time/money should they allocate?

 

2 hours ago, IckyATLAS said:

Please can you indicate on the map which bay it is, I would like to check.

Near the mouth of the Kuban.

[IckyATLAS]

7 hours ago, AEthelraedUnraed said:

And eliminating that will again make the shaders more complicated. Let me ask you a question; how much FPS are you willing to sacrifice for your improved sea?

 

And how much development time/money should they allocate?

I do not have an answer to those legitimate technical/financial questions, but I would briefly say that IL2 Sturmovik was a flight simulator but IL2 Great Battles is not any more a flight simulator.

It is a battle simulator that came from an excellent flight simulator and went on to become a tank simulator and finally a battle simulator. We have artillery, we have sea and ships, we have vehicles and some are fantastically modeled, we have tanks etc. By the way in my Kuban Wall scripted campaign I have a mission (Mission 07 Eagles Nest) that is played exclusively as a soldier in a vehicle (Collector GAZ AA 72k) on the battlefield. I have explored in this way a different facet of this battle simulator and a battle simulator (Air-Land-Sea) it is.

Jason has confirmed that this is the direction by having now infantry coming, and not only static infantry but dynamic infantry.

It is then legitimate to request that the quality improvement does touch the various components of the battle simulator that is now IL2 Great Battles. And when you have maps with the sea then the sea must be of the same quality too. And until now all facets have been improved over time and I expect this also to be the case for the sea.

I am not asking immediate improvements but they have to come and BON could be a good moment to do that.

 

[jollyjack]

All them extras certainly got me more interested in IL2. I kept trying to make some less flight sim shooting type 'missions".

One i recently revamped a bit:

UPDATED 2 july 22 bugfix: https://www.mediafire.com/file/04wytftzumzkxnf/Free_the_Camp_v8d_-_Spitfire_Mkixe.zip/file

 

Use F12-F11 for some additional camera views.

Edited July 2, 2022 by jollyjack

[FeuerFliegen]

2 hours ago, jollyjack said:

All them extras certainly got me more interested in IL2. I kept trying to make some less flight sim shooting type 'missions".

One i recently revamped a bit: https://www.mediafire.com/file/3m0crvsyt8xv9mx/Free_the_Camp_v8_-_Spitfire_Mkixe.zip/file.

 

Use F12-F11 for some additional camera views.

 

Can you give us more info on this mission?  Or do you have a thread that you originally posted it up in that has more info/discussion?

[Ribbon]

4 hours ago, IckyATLAS said:

I do not have an answer to those legitimate technical/financial questions, but I would briefly say that IL2 Sturmovik was a flight simulator but IL2 Great Battles is not any more a flight simulator.

It is a battle simulator that came from an excellent flight simulator and went on to become a tank simulator and finally a battle simulator. We have artillery, we have sea and ships, we have vehicles and some are fantastically modeled, we have tanks etc. By the way in my Kuban Wall scripted campaign I have a mission (Mission 07 Eagles Nest) that is played exclusively as a soldier in a vehicle (Collector GAZ AA 72k) on the battlefield. I have explored in this way a different facet of this battle simulator and a battle simulator (Air-Land-Sea) it is.

Jason has confirmed that this is the direction by having now infantry coming, and not only static infantry but dynamic infantry.

It is then legitimate to request that the quality improvement does touch the various components of the battle simulator that is now IL2 Great Battles. And when you have maps with the sea then the sea must be of the same quality too. And until now all facets have been improved over time and I expect this also to be the case for the sea.

I am not asking immediate improvements but they have to come and BON could be a good moment to do that.

 

I hope their aim is not to be "battle sim" or jack of all trades, game engine is limited and improving one aspects will affect negative other aspects when it comes to performance....as we already seen!

 

I am huge naval ops sim fan (silent hunter, uboat...) but il2 for me is primary ww2 flight sim with so much ww2 areal content missing such as medium bombers (B25, B26, torpedo bombers as Ju88A17.....etc).

Than goes long desired PTO!

 

I rather they invest time and resurces into ww2 areal content than in trucks, boats, ww1 and tanks!

If i want vehicles and FPS i'll go play Arma, and if i want naval stuff i'll rather play Uboat or Silent hunter.

[IckyATLAS]

3 minutes ago, =VARP=Ribbon said:

I rather they invest time and resurces into ww2 areal content than in trucks, boats, ww1 and tanks!

If i want vehicles and FPS i'll go play Arma, and if i want naval stuff i'll rather play Uboat or Silent hunter.

I understand that, but if I have the possibility to have one that does integrate all this, then it will have my preference and get my money.

[AEthelraedUnraed]

4 hours ago, IckyATLAS said:

I do not have an answer to those legitimate technical/financial questions, but I would briefly say that IL2 Sturmovik was a flight simulator but IL2 Great Battles is not any more a flight simulator.

It is a battle simulator that came from an excellent flight simulator and went on to become a tank simulator and finally a battle simulator. We have artillery, we have sea and ships, we have vehicles and some are fantastically modeled, we have tanks etc. By the way in my Kuban Wall scripted campaign I have a mission (Mission 07 Eagles Nest) that is played exclusively as a soldier in a vehicle (Collector GAZ AA 72k) on the battlefield. I have explored in this way a different facet of this battle simulator and a battle simulator (Air-Land-Sea) it is.

Jason has confirmed that this is the direction by having now infantry coming, and not only static infantry but dynamic infantry.

It is then legitimate to request that the quality improvement does touch the various components of the battle simulator that is now IL2 Great Battles. And when you have maps with the sea then the sea must be of the same quality too. And until now all facets have been improved over time and I expect this also to be the case for the sea.

I am not asking immediate improvements but they have to come and BON could be a good moment to do that.

IL2 has certainly become a tank simulator as well as the aircraft simulator it originally was. However, including sea warfare in this list is a very far stretch. There are no playable ships, and apart from some limited action near Kuban (and soon Normandy), there's barely any sea action possible and the closest you'll ever come to a ship is when skip-bombing, when you barely have any time to notice the unrealistic ship physics. This might change if carriers are ever implemented, at which point you could argue that sea warfare is depicted as well and better ship physics/effects are more important.

 

While the announced infantry is a huge step for TC, Jason has described it as far from perfect and it likely will not even come close to the level that dedicated ground combat simulators offer. IL2 is an aircraft simulator first and foremost, and also a decent Tank vs Tank simulator, but definitely not a Battle Simulator.

 

3 minutes ago, IckyATLAS said:

I understand that, but if I have the possibility to have one that does integrate all this, then it will have my preference and get my money.

A jack-of-all-trades will generally always be less good at the separate points than a more narrowly focused competitor. Having one game that does air, sea and land combat all with equal amounts of realism and all with modern graphics is basically a fairytale. Especially if you don't want to compromise on things such as waves that move in the direction of the wind, have long-distance high-resolution 3D waves, realistic spray and a realistic transition between coastal and open sea waters.

[jollyjack]

3 hours ago, SCG_FeuerFliegen said:

Can you give us more info on this mission?  Or do you have a thread that you originally posted it up in that has more info/discussion?

 

Just updated the download link above; it was not the latest version.

You'll basically need Bodenplatte, a20b, c74 Ai, Spitfire Mkxiv, collectorplanes FW190a3 and ju52.

 

The readme in the mission:

 

Spitfire Mission: Free the Nazi concentration camp: Destroy the Nazi barracks, but spare all Prisoners! It's recommended to destroy the gas chambers and crematory buildings to stop the Nazi murdering. Look for the chimneys with the black smoke, and use your Spitfire armed with rockets and bombs to spit out some more havoc on the surrounding flak and buildings.... Hunt down the train fleeing North in your Spit. It has the Nazi Camp SS gang onboard with all all the stolen Jewish gold ! If you miss it: There is a Nazi Transport plane waiting for the bastards at Limburg Airfield. They cleverly camouflaged the plane as Hospital flight for Switzerland. Shoot it down, wait for it's takeoff, and your mission is over ! To kill some time on the way to the Ju52 end phase of this mission: A flight of German He111 bombers are out to destroy your home base !!  Catch them first !  ............................. The location is fictional as most actual elimination camps for 'inferior human races' were not within range on the Il2 Rheinland map. ................. There are Camera positions on various locations, Press F12 and F11 for panning with the mouse ................... Special thanks to: Stoopy, Gambit, Icky_ATLAS, BeeBop, Thad, Raptortracker, JimTM, Deciman  and many others for their tips, advice and group files. Mission End Tip: You can destroy the train once it left the Concentration Camp, but more fun is chasing the Ju52 in your Spit with the fleeing Nazis, heading out south for Switzerland with the loot. PS You can only destroy the plane after it's fully airborne, and have fun using your rockets ...... Mission by JollyJack.

 

Edited June 9, 2022 by jollyjack

[IckyATLAS]

2 hours ago, AEthelraedUnraed said:

A jack-of-all-trades will generally always be less good at the separate points than a more narrowly focused competitor. Having one game that does air, sea and land combat all with equal amounts of realism and all with modern graphics is basically a fairytale. Especially if you don't want to compromise on things such as waves that move in the direction of the wind, have long-distance high-resolution 3D waves, realistic spray and a realistic transition between coastal and open sea waters.

I have the faith. He will give us all of that. In Jason we trust.?

[Juri_JS]

Isn't this a Liberty ship in the background?

[jollyjack]

That would be nice, eh? There seem to be only 2 left in the world, here's one:

 

 

The other, SS Richard Montgomery is still waiting to blow up, but the location is on the Normandy map LoL:

 

Edited June 9, 2022 by jollyjack

[LukeFF]

30 minutes ago, jollyjack said:

That would be nice, eh? There seem to be only 2 left in the world, here's one:

 

 

The other, SS Richard Montgomery is still waiting to blow up, but the location is on the Normandy map LoL:

 

 

Four

[jollyjack]

Well, then it's five; the Karaboudjan in TinTin:

 

Edited June 16, 2022 by jollyjack

[AEthelraedUnraed]

1 hour ago, Juri_JS said:

Isn't this a Liberty ship in the background?

Aye, and it's even in the game already. However, it's only static. I don't think a dynamic version will be released, or at least it hasn't been announced yet.

 

The good news is that static ships don't cost any CPU, and in that way enable a truly massive invasion fleet. I'd argue for static versions of all the BoN ships.

[Juri_JS]

12 minutes ago, AEthelraedUnraed said:

Aye, and it's even in the game already. However, it's only static. I don't think a dynamic version will be released, or at least it hasn't been announced yet.

 

The good news is that static ships don't cost any CPU, and in that way enable a truly massive invasion fleet. I'd argue for static versions of all the BoN ships.

I don't think it's one of the static ships. The ship on the picture has guns. The static versions don't have them.

[AEthelraedUnraed]

18 minutes ago, Juri_JS said:

I don't think it's one of the static ships. The ship on the picture has guns. The static versions don't have them.

Good catch, I hadn't noticed. In that case, I hope it is now policy to release both dynamic and static versions of all ships (and other vehicles).

[jollyjack]

Guess static ships don't wobble then when some waves strike it ....

 

BTW this is a nice one, group made by Regingrave, original version.

Alas the landing craft has not even a helmsman, and shoots at the Gerry trucks without having guns.

There's a set of Translator Animation Operators in it me dumbo still have to figure out what they do ... :

[test]LCA+OnMooredEvent.zip

 

Messed around a little with it to make the 3 jeeps spawn on the LCA ship instead of in front of it in the water, feel free to experiment further LoL.

[test]LCA+OnMooredEvent v2a.zip

Edited June 16, 2022 by jollyjack

[Jade_Monkey]

21 minutes ago, jollyjack said:

Guess static ships don't wobble then when some waves strike it ....

 

BTW this is a nice one, group made by Regingrave, original version.

Alas the landing craft has not even a helmsman, and shoots at the Gerry trucks without having guns.

There's a set of Translator Animation Operators in it me dumbo still have to figure out what they do ... :

[test]LCA+OnMooredEvent.zip 3.06 kB · 0 downloads

 

Messed around a little with it to make the 3 jeeps spawn on the LCA ship ins

[test]LCA+OnMooredEvent v2a.zip 8.07 kB · 0 downloads

 

 

I noticed the missing machine gunner model too, it has been reported and acknowledged.

 

There is a helmsman though, he is inside the box on the right of the ship.

[jollyjack]

Ah, an invisible man .. at last. Aim for box then.

 

[DD_Friar]

The landing craft doors could do with coming down a bit more. Still cool to see them open once the craft have beached though.

I have played around trying to increase the angle, but to no avail.

[jollyjack]

The last version, Regingrave's group, 3 jeeps seemingly drive off for a tourist ride.

Fine tuned a bit for jeep spawn location.

 

What i tried to get is have them already on the LCA as stationary, before landing.

 

Seems not possible, also not with other static objects. Looks a bit unnatural when a landing craft arrives at the shore empty and suddenly there are jeeps driving off.

Does any one have a trick for that? Putting any load on a landing craft? With trains it also seems impossible to put anything on a flatbed wagon ...

3 jeeps spawn from a landing craft v1.zip

Edited July 1, 2022 by jollyjack

[jollyjack]

On 6/9/2022 at 12:32 PM, SCG_FeuerFliegen said:

Can you give us more info on this mission?  Or do you have a thread that you originally posted it up in that has more info/discussion?

 

 

[IckyATLAS]

On 6/17/2022 at 8:34 AM, jollyjack said:

Ah, an invisible man .. at last. Aim for box then.

 

After all besides the joke, this picture is completely absurd except if the invisible man is completely nude and bareskin.

Otherwise all his clothes and shoes, wrist watch, wallet, phone, gloves, everything should be visible including the mask. In fact his career was over the moment he had to put anything onto his skin. Drinking and eating should be an horrible vision. Things should become invisible only when fully incorporated in the mans cells.

 

But I disgress IL2 is not an Invisible Lad version 2 simulator.

[Imperator_TFD]

On 6/10/2022 at 5:10 AM, AEthelraedUnraed said:

Good catch, I hadn't noticed. In that case, I hope it is now policy to release both dynamic and static versions of all ships (and other vehicles).

 

As a mission designer I have all my fingers and toes crossed that we'll get an actual unit of that model ship!