P-47D-28 Tips

[76SQN-Minimayhemtemp]

Hi all.

 

Picked up BoN over the weekend and decided to start a new career mode using PWCG using the P-47D-28 as an attack aircraft in the Rhineland.

 

Normally before starting a career mode I'll practice in the plane using quick missions to get used to the FM/DM, tactics for the expected type of missions, etc etc.

 

But with the P-47D I'm really struggling! It feels like it handles like an absolute pig - mediocre roll, can't make aggressive turns without significant resistence and rudder compensation, and it's very easy to get into a high-speed spin.  The plane feels like its very, very heavy.

 

To boot I'm struggling to maintain anything above 250 mph when flying with 2 x 500 kg bombs and a rail of rockets, and 40% fuel.  In terms of engine settings I've got:

 

- Outlet cowl flaps set to 0 (monitoring cyl. head temp and opening as needed and safe to do so)

- Inlet cowl flaps set to neutral

- Oil intercooler set to neutral

- Mixture set to auto rich

- RPM to 100% (when attacking, otherwise 75%)

- Throttle and turbo-supercharger locked as I'm staying at low alt

 

Playing on realistic settings (percentages above might be off, typically play with no HUD).

 

Just to add I dont think this is a FM issue, just pilot error!

 

Any tips or what I can do to improve how I fly the P-47D?

[CountZero]

So out of all things you mentioned only thing to improve for low alt is run rpm at 2500 when going for speed at low alt insted 2700, use 2700 when climbing.

Good seting for speed and longer engine timer are:

~49" ~2500rpm 80%mix you can get good speed and timer last more then 1h

~52" ~2500rpm 80%mix you can get good speed and timer lasts ~30min insted ~15min.

~60" ~2550rpm 80%mix +boost will last you ~15min insted 5min if you go all out.

Turbo-sup you can leve at 100% all the time i didnt expirianced any problems with it like that since airplane was added to game so i think in game it dosent mather if its at 100% at low alt.

[=IRFC=Eccho]

It feels really heavy because it is really heavy. With all that payload dont expect to climb good or go fast. I recommend always running at max continuous (42in 2550 indicated by arcs on the instruments) en route and climbing. For the turbo either keep it interconnected or run it full on for more power. Every other setting you mentioned looks good. The jug was never a good low-alt fighter, and its even worse of one in this game. Its only decent at high alt, and is usually restricted to boom n zoom. Even there the jug underperforms. A tip, when you getting going fast (above 300mph or so) bring back the rpm to 2500, you will go faster. 

[Hoss]

Try the Jug in the other sim........ much different. Like them both, but I do like one much more over the other. 

[BCI-Nazgul]

Stall modeling for the jug is awful in this sim.  In the other sim it's able to pull itself around on the huge engine and prop even at low speeds if the boost is on.   Also, in this sim the DM is terrible for the jug.   Something is wrong when it can constantly take a lot LESS damage than a Mustang before going down.  In the other sim you can shoot it full of holes and it keeps flying.  So, I guess my advice for flying it in IL2 is DON'T, but if you have to, keep it fast and only use B and Z tactics.   The minute you try to turn with any German plane you're going to be in trouble.  20% flaps can be helpful if you do get into a turning fight, but I wouldn't recommend ending up in that situation.

Edited June 10, 2022 by BCI-Nazgul

[Chilli_40]

1 hour ago, BCI-Nazgul said:

Stall modeling for the jug is awful in this sim.  In the other sim it's able to pull itself around on the huge engine and prop even at low speeds if the boost is on.   Also, in this sim the DM is terrible for the jug.   Something is wrong when it can constantly take a lot LESS damage than a Mustang before going down.  In the other sim you can shoot it full of holes and it keeps flying.  So, I guess my advice for flying it in IL2 is DON'T, but if you have to, keep it fast and only use B and Z tactics.   The minute you try to turn with any German plane you're going to be in trouble.  20% flaps can be helpful if you do get into a turning fight, but I wouldn't recommend ending up in that situation.

You know that's a real shame, all the books I've read and documentaries I've seen sing the praises of the Jug. They describe how they could hang it on that huge paddle prop and climb to the heavens while being able to take massive amounts of damage and still make it home. 

[[CPT]Crunch]

Fortunately you have plenty of A-20's and Mosquito's to escort and protect you.

[BCI-Nazgul]

20 hours ago, [CPT]Crunch said:

Fortunately you have plenty of A-20's and Mosquito's to escort and protect you.

Yes, the paragons of WW II fighter development.

[RossMarBow]

P-47 was the plane I flew in multiplayer when I first got the game, its not bad.

What count said, only reason to drop turbo speed is if your over-speeding at extremely high altitudes.

Set your 50cal convergence to 150m and don't try and shoot things past 300m.

Don't forget to hit the boost button.

Slam the mix to full if you need extra cooling but don't want to loose performance. 

And jettison those rocket pods after you launch them.

Fly it like buzz light year assisted falling.

Pop flaps 10% or more if your close to stalling, once you get slow.

Run away on the deck once you hit it, straight line speed isn't shabby.

As long as your not trying to climb after anything its good.

Try flying it without any bombs or rockets attached its not bad as a fighter that way.

As a ground attacker, its just not that great compared to other options like the a20 p38 basically anything else.

I think historically it was just used as ground attack because they didn't have any other use for it.

[LukeFF]

1 hour ago, brahguevara said:

I think historically it was just used as ground attack because they didn't have any other use for it.

 

Nothing could be further from the truth.

[RossMarBow]

From the wiki: "With increases in fuel capacity as the type was refined, the range of escort missions over Europe steadily increased until the P-47 was able to accompany bombers in raids all the way into Germany. On the way back from the raids, pilots shot up ground targets of opportunity, and also used belly shackles to carry bombs on short-range missions, which led to the realization that the P-47 could perform a dual-function on escort missions as a fighter-bomber."

I would love to see statistics on how often the P-47 was chosen by air command instead of the Mustang to fight other fighters. 

 

I don't really see it being used as moral support for bombers flying against a crushed Luftwaffel as a good example of that. Most bombers were lost to AAA fire, especially late in the war.
Clearly if your planning on taking bombs on a escort mission then dropping those bombs on targets your not planning on encountering any fighter resistance. 
And post-war the P-47 fell off, while the Corsair (same engine without the goofy tub-o) kept doing gods work.

[SYN_Ricky]

The P-47 was the main escort fighter until the Mustang was available in numbers (that happened somwhere into 1944) and it did the job at a time when the Luftwaffe was still strong, so for quite a few month there wasn't even a choice. The better range of the Mustang made it the preferred escort fighter, but also because it was much cheaper to build than the 47 or the 38.

Edited June 16, 2022 by SYN_Ricky

[Sgt_Joch]

The P-47 makes an excellent fighter, but you have to play to its strength. It is heavy and not very maneuverable compared to other fighters so turn and burn is a losing strategy. OTOH it is very fast at high altitude, has 15 mins combat power and 8x.50 cal.

 

So stay high and fast at 8000 meters and pick off 109G/K in diving attacks who are struggling to go higher than 6000 meters.

[RossMarBow]

On 6/15/2022 at 6:24 PM, LukeFF said:

 

Nothing could be further from the truth.

"the Luftwaffe never fully recovered from the reverse it suffered in August-October 1940"

Post Battle of Britain the Luftwaffe didn't really do anything of significance.
German support for the air force was already very thin, so after failing to do the one job they had, it was permanently relegated. 
It played an insignificant role on the Eastern front, and was entirely ineffective at defending against bombers. 

 

"As a result, there has been a steady increase in the relative importance of flak until in June, July and August 1944, flak accounted for  98 per cent of the 13,000 bombers damaged."

"The Germans and the Allies, to a certain extent, used the number of enemy aircraft shot down by fighters and those by flak as a measurement as to its effectiveness. But this was a false metric. It must be remembered that Flak defenses were designed, not to shoot bombers down, but to force them to drop their loads from a higher altitude and thus reduce their accuracy. Aircraft shot down or damaged was a bonus."

 

And Germans only had bad radar no proximity fuses.

 

Once superior British radar and proximity fuses became widely deployed on the Western front and in the Pacific, the Axis forces couldn't attack ground targets from the air.  

 

Edited June 17, 2022 by brahguevara

[LukeFF]

3 hours ago, brahguevara said:

It played an insignificant role on the Eastern front,

 

I could pick apart a lot with your post, but this part right here is just straight out, entirely false. There were several instances in the winter of 1942-43 alone where the Luftwaffe saved the German army from certain defeat - namely in the actions after the defeat at Stalingrad. All of that is described in great detail in Black Cross / Red Star Volume 4.

Edited June 17, 2022 by LukeFF

[RossMarBow]

Pretty sure German army was defeated not too sure what books you are reading.

[LukeFF]

7 hours ago, brahguevara said:

Pretty sure German army was defeated not too sure what books you are reading.

 

I told you right there in my last reply.

 

But, since it's obvious you don't want to learn anything new, I'm done with trying to explain things here.

[BCI-Nazgul]

On 6/16/2022 at 4:56 AM, Sgt_Joch said:

The P-47 makes an excellent fighter, but you have to play to its strength. It is heavy and not very maneuverable compared to other fighters so turn and burn is a losing strategy. OTOH it is very fast at high altitude, has 15 mins combat power and 8x.50 cal.

 

So stay high and fast at 8000 meters and pick off 109G/K in diving attacks who are struggling to go higher than 6000 meters.

Because so many enemies fly at 20,000+ feet in this game, sheesh.

10 hours ago, brahguevara said:

Pretty sure German army was defeated not too sure what books you are reading.

They were defeated at Stalingrad, but that's not the same as completely defeated.   Basically, the remainder of German Army reformed a defensive line and fell back from the Stalingrad area.  They were not totally defeated, they lost any offensive initative and were pretty much on the defensive for the rest of the war.  If that were not true it wouldn't have taken the Soviets until mid 1945 to take Berlin.  The German Airforce still played a big part on the East Front for a long time after Stalingrad.

15 hours ago, brahguevara said:

Once superior British radar and proximity fuses became widely deployed on the Western front and in the Pacific, the Axis forces couldn't attack ground targets from the air.  

 

By the time proximity fuses were in wide use (1944-45) Axis air power was already nearly destroyed.

Edited June 17, 2022 by BCI-Nazgul

[[CPT]Crunch]

Revers the roles with Britain and Allies being the aggressor and occupying territory all the way to the German border and Germany the defender on attack.  It'd never happen, not escorted, they never developed a fighter with the necessary legs.  Only America did this by design philosophy due to the needs of a vast territory to transit and defend.  You win by being over your enemies home turf, hitting where it hurts the most, and the ability to choose when and where to strike is an automated war winning feature.  It didn't really have to be better, it just had to be there.

[gydaveb]

To get back on track and off of the historical debate, I've had quite a bit of luck in the P-47 in IL2 BOS by simply not getting into a turning fight with it. If you start with some altitude (doesn't have to be a ton, just an advantage over the bad guys), dive in on a target, use the energy to climb, set back up, and repeat... but whatever you do, resist the urge to get into a turning fight when flying the P-47. If a turning fight is your thing, you're better off in a Spitfire or Mustang.

 

A great way to force yourself to fly it right is to do a single player career in it in "iron-man" mode. If you will permanently die if you fly it wrong, you've got some incentive to break any bad habits... i.e. under no circumstances try to turn fight against german fighters.

Edited June 17, 2022 by gydaveb

[Feldgrun]

Devs - Please improve the damage model of the P-47! Other issues regarding its performance are debatable, but the DM is not. For a small hole in one wing from a 20mm cannon to bring a P-47 down, every time, is not accurate. In comparison, the P-40 can take a lot of damage. Use that DM. 

If we're talking DMs, I just blew apart an IL-2 with a P-51s .50 cals this morning in a "Korea" mission. It was as if I'd hit it with a 50mm HE as it flew into many pieces. That can't be right.

 

Edited June 18, 2022 by Feldgrun

[Rei-sen]

On 6/10/2022 at 11:29 AM, Hoss said:

Try the Jug in the other sim

1000% this!

[RossMarBow]

Regarding fuel explosions

 

Do tanks that have never had fuel in them like on the P51 and maybe the 47?

 

Still explode?

 

I know that a plane with 5% fuel left explodes more often than a plane with 75% fuel left.

 

But I'm wondering how it works with say the stangs rear tanks if you never put fuel in them to start with?

 

Also does anyone know the P47 fuel tank layout?

 

Is it only wings and they historically relied on drop tanks?

[[CPT]Crunch]

Yes, an empty fuel cell is far more dangerous than a full.  Vapor form is the greater hazard for ignition and explosion.  One of the reasons today's air forces pack their fuel cells full of aviation fuel cell foam, even at the cost of fuel volume and range.

Edited June 18, 2022 by [CPT]Crunch

[Knarley-Bob]

A tank that has NEVER had fuel in it will NOT explode. There will not be any fumes to be had. (Firefighter 101)

[Hoss]

The guy never posted again after his first post... I think this thread is moot.....   

[ACG_Cass]

On 7/14/2022 at 11:22 PM, Knarley-Bob said:

A tank that has NEVER had fuel in it will NOT explode. There will not be any fumes to be had. (Firefighter 101)

Further to that. The gas tanks were vented after each flight and you'd still need the magic, exact 1.6% of the volume to be fuel to even have a chance of exploding and that's a gallon of fuel on a P47s extra tank.