Flying the restored Gustav

[Blitzen]

Nice article & video at its finish:

https://www.warhistoryonline.com/guest-bloggers/newly-restored-messerschmitt.html?fbclid=IwAR2a3No-TSyp6piYtfaV4DxwwBhDsx8WZuqxPyvOW2dcGKhFQdKjp9vO_S0&chrome=1

[Feldgrun]

I'd love to know what a pilot with real experience, like the one in this article, thinks of the realism of our flight sim. What would he change to make it more realistic?

[Crocogator]

This is really cool, thanks.

 

1 hour ago, Feldgrun said:

I'd love to know what a pilot with real experience, like the one in this article, thinks of the realism of our flight sim. What would he change to make it more realistic?

Judging by:

Quote

'The Bf109, in comparison, drains blood from all whom it touches. It makes no Messerschmitt Bf109G design compromise to coddle toddler pilots. It demands the very best performance from the very best pilots and charges the ultimate price for inattention. When the Bf109’s many idiosyncrasies were embraced and utilized by “Experten”, it forever became the Darth Vader of aviation.'

I think this guy would want to make the 109 in-game a lot more slippery. I find it's pretty docile even with force feedback.

[Luftschiff]

Quote

The dark soul of this aircraft would turn any other paint scheme black in one flight. In comparison, shark tooth paint schemes of other fighters are merely aircraft codpieces for the poseurs within.

 

This quote is fantastic, like an advertisement for men's shaving cream.

[Blitzen]

7 hours ago, Crocogator said:

This is really cool, thanks.

 

Judging by:

I think this guy would want to make the 109 in-game a lot more slippery. I find it's pretty docile even with force feedback.

A good question ,I think on several levels .I believe he'd like the general feel ,esp in VR but it would probably end there.First we don't have to worry about the value of the aircraft, now some several million dollars ) or Euros,) but even in WW2 I'm sure fledgling Luftwaffe pilots were told Gustav's ( or more probably Emils in training,) weren't cheap. They had then , and now  a reputation for being difficult- I seem tp remember in Heinz Knokes book I flew for the Fuhrer, that as a student he witnessed a crash of a fellow student attempting to do his first landing and coming a "cropper. "and getting seriously injured.  Try to put that out of your mind?! If you totaled the number of 109's I've pranged in both numbers & value ,it would be quite a number, but I've never worried a bit , I just jumped into another digital one & off I go! Our author could never feel such confidence and relaxation.

  Even with Force Feedback sticks & ButtKicker devices there is no way to feel the torque or thrust that you'd "feel" in the actual aircraft. You also don't feelthe directional grab of the wheels going wrong, and the sheer desperation  of trying to correct it, nor is your inner ear much effected by all the movements such as ground loops you may have to go through.It would be a side issue if we had to try to cleanup the vomit from our key boards, I think.

Finally I think we have a modified view out of the cockpit in GB and CloD to make things a bit easier for all of us arm chair warriors. Our author would notice this immediately & probably comment on how much better it is than the real thing) probably even more so with the Spitfire or if we had it :god-help-us the Corsair!)

He would probably dismiss the ergonomics of trying to adjust various switches and knobs by key stroke or mouse ( while in VR or out,)as well.

Please don't get me wrong -I LOVE this sim and I flying the 109 constantly , but I never confuse what I do with the real thing ( and I'm sure very few sim pilots do.)I'm sure our "introduction to the 109" would leave the author smiling , but he would also feel there is a long way to go ( and many flying hours, ) before any of us could sit in the cockpit of a real 109 ( evenduring WW@ when there were literally thousands of them around,) and gettong one on & off the ground , never mind combat..

[Blitzen]

Oh yes , and type of joystick, & its "modeling" and rudder bars could make a difference as well...

This little beauty lists for a mere $2500.00 smackers!

[Avimimus]

13 hours ago, Feldgrun said:

I'd love to know what a pilot with real experience, like the one in this article, thinks of the realism of our flight sim. What would he change to make it more realistic?

 

I remember, back when the original Il-2 was released - someone got an actual Luftwaffe pilot to fly a Fw-190.

 

I recall that some of the observations were that (1) he turned very smoothly in order to retain energy (2) he fired off the outer wing guns when he did pull a sharp turn as he believed that reduced the chance of them jamming and (3) when attacking a bomber he hunkered down in the chair (and when asked he explained he was hiding his body behind the engine for additional protection from the gunners).

[Dragon1-1]

The problem with simulating a WWII aircraft is that they're just so "haptic", in that you feel the engine, the control surfaces and, to some extent, the airflow over the wings. It's a million different kinds of vibrations, which an experienced pilot can quickly locate to a particular place on the aircraft.  Jets, being heavier and having more instruments, as well as not having to worry about torque and sideslip (you basically keep your feet off the pedals even in the F-5, unless you're taxiing or doing low speed maneuvering in combat) are easier to get a close experience for in the sim. 

[AEthelraedUnraed]

14 hours ago, Avimimus said:

(3) when attacking a bomber he hunkered down in the chair (and when asked he explained he was hiding his body behind the engine for additional protection from the gunners).

I do that too! I don't know for sure whether the pilot hitbox moves with the player's head in VR, but if it does, the engine should protect me.

[Avimimus]

5 hours ago, Dragon1-1 said:

The problem with simulating a WWII aircraft is that they're just so "haptic", in that you feel the engine, the control surfaces and, to some extent, the airflow over the wings. It's a million different kinds of vibrations, which an experienced pilot can quickly locate to a particular place on the aircraft.  Jets, being heavier and having more instruments, as well as not having to worry about torque and sideslip (you basically keep your feet off the pedals even in the F-5, unless you're taxiing or doing low speed maneuvering in combat) are easier to get a close experience for in the sim. 

 

Even more so for the WWI aircraft (for comparison many had about 1/10th the wing loading of a G-6), and the aircraft that the WWI pilots trained on moreso (usually 1/2 to 1/3rd the wing loading of the WWI aircraft, so something like 20 times the airflow over the wings relative to the weight of the plane)!

[Dragon1-1]

WWI aircraft were basically big box kites with machine guns and engine strapped on. You were lucky if you even had instruments, and not only was your body the primary flight instrument, you could apparently trim those things pretty well by shifting your butt in the seat. It all relied on instinctive sense of balance, not dials and tapes. Gliders today have more pilot aids than those things did. 

 

Sadly, even if the sim supported it, that sort of flying would only be possible to approach with a full motion platform rig, and even that wouldn't quite replicate the plethora of feedback one gets in a real airplane. I guess we'll see where haptic jumpsuits can get us, once they become practical and affordable.