So what's my best bet for getting into VR...?

[1Sascha]

... without spending crazy money?

 

Last time I used VR was in the days of VFX1s and Virtual IO Glasses, so: Total modern-day VR-n00b here, please bear with me.

 

Just bought a used 2070 Super off a friend who re-introduced me to VR, so I'm fairly certain I'll have the GPU-requirements covered (just). And I don't mind reducing in-game eye-candy a bit. The guy had his Reverb G2 running on an RX6950 XT and with everything cranked to max got 25 FPS or so in IL-2 ... he reduced a bit of eye-candy and got into the 70s to 90s and I didn't really see much of a difference. Plus even at 25 FPS the game didn't look laggy to me for some reason ...

 

I've already been checking prices on the HP and I did find a reputable looking vendor on ebay who sells it for €450 with two controllers. Now: Is that a decent price? And, more importantly, are there other products in the HP's segment that you'd rather recommend than it?

 

Also: Since I use weak reading glasses these days in front of my monitor, is it possible or even recommended to wear those under the VR set? Or are the adjustments on the set enough to make the pic as sharp as you can make it? As great as the cockpits looked, planes I was tracking or shooting at did look a bit "fuzzy" to me on his setup. Not sure if that was me not wearing my reading aid, the HP not set correctly for my eyes or just a general lack of pixels on the VR set.

 

S.

 

 

[dburne]

HP Reverb G2 hands down. Comes with everything you need at a reasonable price. Personally I would get either from Amazon or HP, not third party sellers.

You can check out VR Optician for lens inserts. 

 

https://vroptician.com/prescription-lens-inserts/hp-reverb-g2

Edited May 18, 2022 by dburne

[1Sascha]

28 minutes ago, dburne said:

You can check out VR Optician for lens inserts. 

Oh wow.. that's convenient...

 

Yeah, but like I said: They're not super strong glasses. I don't even have a prescription since anything besides reading small text still works great. I'm using those cheapo, standard reading aids they sell at your local drugstore. +1.5 dioptrine, next step up (+2? +2.5? not sure) are too strong for me already. So I'd rather be able to slip them underneath if that's at all possible.

 

EDIT: Interesting.. if I read that page you linked correctly, those inserts should be ordered according to one's far correction prescription, not reading or PC prescription. So I guess my age-related eye issues might not even be a problem in VR ... ? But I'm not an optician, so what do I know ...? ?

 

28 minutes ago, dburne said:

HP Reverb G2 hands down.

 

Cool! One less decision to make.

 

EDIT 2: Amazon is a bit of a mixed bag over here WRT prices. They want €610 for the HP, that's a lot more expensive than going to one of the big electronics brick-and-mortar super-store chains who charge €499 at the moment.

 

 

 

S.

Edited May 18, 2022 by 1Sascha

[1Sascha]

Crap.. got an offer for a nearly new Oculus Rift S for under €200 now. Think I'll go with that one for the time being, since the cheapest HP I can find is more than double the price.... guess I'll have to make do with 3.6 million pixels? ?

 

S.

[Algy-Lacey]

I have to say, with all due respect to dburne, that in my opinion a HP Reverb G2 isn't the best VR headset for your graphics card.

 

One thing that you have to bear in mind with VR is that your PC has to render more pixels than the resolution of the headset, called Super Sampling... I believe that the optimum 100% Super Sampling for the Reverb G2 (which you can set in the software such as Steam VR) is around 19 million pixels(!) Even a RTX 3080 will struggle to give good framerates. Yes, you can reduce the SS down to about 50% in Steam VR which is the native resolution of the G2, but it will impact image quality massively.

 

I have an RTX 2080ti  11 Gb card and I chose not to go with the Reverb G2 and instead chose a headset that I would be able to run at 100% (Steam VR) SuperSampling, an expensive headset, the Valve Index. IIRC, at 100% Steam VR SS my graphics card has to render something like 9 million pixels, a huge difference! With this headset I can run IL-2's Ultra preset and most settings maxxed out.

 

I'm not sure what I would recommend as a good headset for your system, I only have experience with the first generation Oculus Rift CV1 and the 2nd gen Valve Index (the difference between them is night and day). Many people don't like Oculus because of having to sign in to Facebook, so there's that. People seem to like the HTC Vive headsets, maybe someone else can recommend a different headset on a tight budget.

 

I would advise you to not dive straight in, have a look at what headset other folk are using on PC's similar to yours.

 

Happy Landings!

Algy-Lacey

[1Sascha]

34 minutes ago, Algy-Lacey said:

I would advise you to not dive straight in, have a look at what headset other folk are using on PC's similar to yours.

Too late.. plunge taken... ? Well.. if the seller actually accepts my offer.

 

But thanks for the advice, which is of course sound. But then again: I'm an idiot.

 

 

Thing is, the guy who found the used Rift S owned two of those before switching to his HP. One of the Rift S' he ran on the very same card I'll be using (he sold me his old 2070 Super). He actually said even the Reverb G2 was ok on that card .. he had some minor ghosting issues with it in iL-2 and wanted to get a faster GPU anyway so he bought the 6950XT.

 

All good, I consider €190 for a nearly new Rift S not a dive at all. As long as I'll be able to read all the in-cockpit gauges in my 109 and 190, I'll be a happy camper. I remember trying out War Thunder years ago on the OG Oculus Rift and how I hated the fact that all the dashboard was just a blurry mess and you couldn't even read altitude or airspeed... ?

 

How did I put it on discord? Thank God I'm single at the moment.

 

 

 

S.

Edited May 18, 2022 by 1Sascha

[1Sascha]

YES!

It's mine, and the buddy who picked it up for me said it looked "brand new".

 

And now we play the waiting game ... ?

 

 

S.

 

 

[Drum]

Congratulations, you'll be sorry you ever started down that rabbit hole, but welcome to the dark side all the same.

[1Sascha]

17 minutes ago, Drum said:

Congratulations, you'll be sorry you ever started down that rabbit hole, but welcome to the dark side all the same.

God, yeah... that buddy of mine has already talked four or five of our squaddies into going VR ... and now me. To be fair though: That thing he picked up for me was a bit of a steal at €190 and he just told me that it even still smells like new and looks as if it had only been taken out of the box once and then never used. Kind of a lucky find and only worked because he lived close by the seller somewhere in the Dutch boonies and offered the guy to pick it up today.

 

All that said: I didn't need much convincing AFTER I had tried IL-2 on his PC on the weekend. The sensation of flight and of "being there" was incredible and I think that for the first time ever I was able to use my rudder pedals completely intuitively.

 

But even before actually flying I knew I'd want some of this while I was sitting on the runway. I realized I didn't dare move my (real) head forward in a 190 because I was afraid I would hit it on the (virtual) windshield/cockpit frame. ?

 

S.

 

[dburne]

1 hour ago, 1Sascha said:

God, yeah... that buddy of mine has already talked four or five of our squaddies into going VR ... and now me. To be fair though: That thing he picked up for me was a bit of a steal at €190 and he just told me that it even still smells like new and looks as if it had only been taken out of the box once and then never used. Kind of a lucky find and only worked because he lived close by the seller somewhere in the Dutch boonies and offered the guy to pick it up today.

 

All that said: I didn't need much convincing AFTER I had tried IL-2 on his PC on the weekend. The sensation of flight and of "being there" was incredible and I think that for the first time ever I was able to use my rudder pedals completely intuitively.

 

But even before actually flying I knew I'd want some of this while I was sitting on the runway. I realized I didn't dare move my (real) head forward in a 190 because I was afraid I would hit it on the (virtual) windshield/cockpit frame. ?

 

S.

 

 

You are so in for a treat! Beware the rabbit hole...

[1Sascha]

Quote

May 19, 19:29

Shipment sorted in sorting centre

Time of delivery: May 23 - May 24

Noooo... come on Dutch postal service...!! I need this thing on the weekend... ?

 

 

 

 

S.

[chiliwili69]

On 5/18/2022 at 12:38 PM, 1Sascha said:

RX6950 XT

Just for you to be aware. The 6800XT, 6900XT and 6950XT have a performance issue with IL-2 in VR and monitor.

I would avoid those cards until issue has been solved. Look at the SYN_Vander thread in Hardware section.

In other games they perform well.

[1Sascha]

22 hours ago, chiliwili69 said:

Just for you to be aware. The 6800XT, 6900XT and 6950XT have a performance issue with IL-2 in VR and monitor.

That wasn't my card. It's my buddy's card on whose PC I tried the Reverb G2. I'll let him know though, but IL-2 seemed to do fine in VR on his system. Not sure what he changed to get the FPS boost (VR settings or in-game GFX settings or both), but even with the more demanding settings he ran at first (25 ish FPS), the game looked smooth to me. Once he made some changes to reduce GPU load, IL-2 was running at 70 to 90 FPS in VR - and didn't look much different to me. Oh, and I was wrong about his card... a little... it wasn't the 6950 XT but "only" the 6900 XT. My bad.

 

EDIT: Apparently all he changed was that he switched from MSAA to FXAA to raise FPS.

 

S.

Edited May 21, 2022 by 1Sascha

[javelina]

19 hours ago, 1Sascha said:

Noooo... come on Dutch postal service...!! I need this thing on the weekend... ?

 

 

 

 

S.

well?  was it delivered for the weekend?  (hope so)

[1Sascha]

8 minutes ago, javelina said:

well?  was it delivered for the weekend?  (hope so)

 I couldn't believe it myself, but when the switch from Dutch postal service to German parcel carrier occurred this morning, nothing had changed. Next update however was today at noon CET and the package was already at a distribution center only 65 km away from me. Plus they suddenly projected delivery for tomorrow between 9:30 am and 12:30 pm.

 

 

So...?

 

 

Although I probably shouldn't be celebrating prematurely since it's not yet at the final distribution center in my region, but .....

 

Of course... now I'm dreading the fact that I'll have to swap GPUs tomorrow and everyone seems to have a different opinion on what to do re drivers. I think I'll just try the idiot's approach of simply swapping them out and hoping that GF Experience/Windows will do the right thing. Possibly uninstalling drivers myself after the swap, but I really don't want to get into 3rd party "driver cleaners"...

 

 

S.

Edited May 20, 2022 by 1Sascha

[javelina]

Just now, 1Sascha said:

 I couldn't believe it myself, but when the switch from Dutch postal service to German parcel carrier occurred this morning, nothing had changed. Next update however was today at noon CET and the package was already at a distribution center only 65 km away from me. Plus they suddenly projected delivery for tomorrow between 9:30 am and 12:30 pm.

 

 

So...?

 

 

Although I probably shouldn't be celebrating prematurely.

 

S.

enjoy buddy!  we'll expect a detailed report from you!  ?

[1Sascha]

Well ....

...gotta have a serious talk with my buddy for not keeping the original box for that 2070... that's it at the top, wrapped in bubble foil... ?

 

So far, so good. The "new" GPU is in now and seems to run fine. Although the jump in power consumption was a bit scary, but I knew that my PSU would be at its upper limit with the card (Seasonic FX 550 Gold). Max GPU-draw in benchmarks was 125-ish W before on my 1060 3GB, 215W with the stock 2070 Super. In games the 1060, though OCed by as much as Afterburner recommended, never drew more than 110 or 113W though. And the CPU never exceeded 80 or 90 W outside of benchmarks/stress-tests, either. So I hope my PSU won't go poof! ?

 

Oh, and yes: I did avoid 3rd party removal tools. Swapped the cards, then had to manually start GF Experience, which then started driver download on its own. Selected a "clean install", let it run and did another re-boot when all was finished, just to be safe. Everything is running just fine - "for now" I hear the driver-doomsday-crowd saying... ?

 

Kinda miss shorty's more humble dimensions already:

 

But his bigger brother seems a bit more eager to perform... ?

 

 

 

 

Results are quite nice ....

 

1060:

 

 

Same system, but with the 2070 plugged in:

 

 

Interestingly enough, Passmark's Performance test, which puts way less emphasis on the GPU, only got me slight overall bump in score (~7,630 to 8,004)- but quite a hefty one in GPU score, of course (11,000 to 22,000):

It also pushed the CPU quite a bit harder it seems with its more elaborate tests. 140.1 W max draw is ...well... scary.

But... at least the GPU got a significantly higher 3D-score than Passmark's average for the 2070 Super (~18,000 avg, 22,000 on mine). Which is even 2,000 more than their average score for the 3060 Ti, so I'm kinda happy about my card and afraid for my poor little PSU all at the same time ... ?

 

Temps were higher too of course with the new card (larger card getting in the way and I don't have the best intake-airflow down there) and for some reason my M.2 Samsung got 8,000 points less than the last time I ran this test with the 1060 still in the system. Higher temps around the PCIe slot = throttled SSD performance? Not sure if that's a thing.

 

Guess I gotta re-run the IL-2 benchmark as well now too.

 

Anyway: Only opened the Rift S' box so far and other than a small rip in the outer cardboard sleeve, the box and the set itself look brand new to me. And the set really has that "new tech gadget"-smell still ...

 

Going to tackle installation/setup of the Rift S next, but I think I might jump into the BIOS first to take out my slight auto-tune CPU overclock (+ 2 offset on the turbo-mode, upping CPU speed to 5.1 GHz). According to the PSU calculator I use, I would need a 560-ish Watt PSU at max draw and mine's a 550W, so I should probably go easy on the power consumption. And I suppose my i5-12600K is fast enough at stock speeds for the time being.

 

S.

 

Edited May 21, 2022 by 1Sascha

[javelina]

Enjoy!

[1Sascha]

Holy crap! I mean... I knew what to expect, but still.... holy crap. God, it's like I want to reach out and touch the suede covering on the 190's dashboard or take my hand and cage its artificial horizon.

 

Resolution is of course a step down from the Reverb G2 I tried last week, but I was expecting that. Gauges are still totally readable to me, but I did run into some sort of visual glitch in a quick mission. Planes I was chasing at close range would suddenly look as if they were flapping their wings... hard to describe, but that's what it looked like. I backed off the 2x MSAA and went back to 4x FXAA but I haven't tried the new setting yet in-game (my eyes needed a rest and my brain needed a smoke ? ).

 

It's too bad I can't adjust the eye gap "on the fly" (or can I? not sure), because I feel that the default setting of 63.5mm is probably not quite right for me, but it's hard to judge adjustments when you have to take the goggles off for each one. Plus I was kinda annoyed at the fact that the virtual versions of my hand-controllers were lying on my 109's wing the whole time... lol.

 

Performance seems quite acceptable with this new card. With MSAA still enabled, this was probably the most taxing game this rig has had to drive yet, but temps and performance look fine to me.

 

 

Overall, I'm still pretty impressed and other than the fact that the gunsight (and waypoint markers for some reason) will often appear double to me, everything worked great. Well... except for that weird wing-flapping thing and some rubberbanding/warpage when planes were passing me at high speed. Hope the reduction in the settings will fix that. I was getting 40 to 50 FPS with the high-to-ultra settings I was using.

 

And of course, I'll have to download that "save my neck" thingie, cause ... I gotta save my neck.

 

All in all, this was probably the best €190 ... well, €390 if I add in the 2070, I ever spent on hardware. ?

 

And of course, I'm already eyeing the Reverb G2 and the Pimax Vision ....

 

 

 

S.

 

 

Edited May 21, 2022 by 1Sascha

[DBCOOPER011]

LOL, pretty soon your gonna do a custom loop and buy a varjo aero...

[Drum]

31 minutes ago, DBCOOPER011 said:

LOL, pretty soon your gonna do a custom loop and buy a varjo aero...

That's when you finally get back out of the rabbit hole and really start flying!  ?

[firdimigdi]

8 hours ago, 1Sascha said:

Planes I was chasing at close range would suddenly look as if they were flapping their wings...

 

That's reprojection/motion smoothing kicking in. In Oculus it's called Asynchronous Space Warp (ASW). This happens when the framerate drops under the HMD's native framerate (80 in this case), then it automatically drops to half the framerate and compensates with synthesizing frames providing the illusion of smooth motion (at least for the viewport). It works OK as long as there's no fast motion, like the planes you saw, or if you roll and look at your wings for example. You can disable this but will need to do some tweaking (see: say goodbye to MSAA) to get the framerate to stick as close to 80 as possible otherwise motion will be jerky.

 

Edited May 22, 2022 by Firdimigdi

[1Sascha]

3 hours ago, Firdimigdi said:

That's reprojection/motion smoothing kicking in. In Oculus it's called Asynchronous Space Warp (ASW). This happens when the framerate drops under the HMD's native framerate (80 in this case), then it automatically drops to half the framerate and compensates with synthesizing frames providing the illusion of smooth motion (at least for the viewport). It works OK as long as there's no fast motion, like the planes you saw, or if you roll and look at your wings for example. You can disable this but will need to do some tweaking (see: say goodbye to MSAA) to get the framerate to stick as close to 80 as possible otherwise motion will be jerk

Yeah... I had a talk with my VR-pusher... err.. my buddy who got me into this ... and he told me about ASW too. I disabled it in the debugging tool and ... no more flapping wings. Well, I also reduced SS for IL-2 from 125% to 110%, reduced terrain ...err.. roughness? from high to med and did back off the FXAA from 4x to 2x, just to see what would happen to FPS. Got 67 to 80 that way in a QM on summer Rheinland-map and with 4 blue and 8 red planes.

 

Should I just leave ASW off or try one of the two other "forced" settings in there? It was set to Auto by default but that gave me those glitches with my other settings..

 

And because it was (way too) late at night, I don't recall if I got those glitches before upping SS to 125% or only after ... ? I mean 25% more pixels should probably increase workload on the GPU quite a bit and reduce FPS, right? Especially since this is just a 2070 Super, not a 3090 Ti.

 

 

Or should I rather go back to 100% SS and crank up the in-game settings until I run into FPS issues? So many questions.

 

I just wish this thing had a mechanical slider to adjust eye-gap, like the Reverb has. So awkward to either having to alt-tab out or using the hand-controllers to do it.

 

One thing's for sure, I need to work on my desk-top cable-management again... this thing looks like a mess now with all the additional cables lying about...lol!

 

 

S.

Edited May 22, 2022 by 1Sascha

[dburne]

Welcome to the club!