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[Fafnir_6]

The Spitfire XIV (teardrop) is the RAF equivalent of the Ta152H-1 in my mind....In service for a very short time at the end of the war in a squadron or two.  Not super helpful for the career mode or offline use but excellent for the multiplayer crowd.  I imagine much profit will ensue. This is actually true for all three of the newly announced pre-orders.  It's no issue though...whatever funds me more theatres, recon planes  and bombers in WWII and more 2-seaters and fronts in the WWI game.   I'll grab the WWI birds for sure...might get the super-spit later and not judge anyone who is super stoked for it now.

 

Cheers,

 

Fafnir_6

[Asgar]

26 minutes ago, Fafnir_6 said:

The Spitfire XIV (teardrop) is the RAF equivalent of the Ta152H-1 in my mind....In service for a very short time at the end of the war in a squadron or two.  Not super helpful for the career mode or offline use but excellent for the multiplayer crowd.  I imagine much profit will ensue. This is actually true for all three of the newly announced pre-orders.  It's no issue though...whatever funds me more theatres, recon planes  and bombers in WWII and more 2-seaters and fronts in the WWI game.   I'll grab the WWI birds for sure...might get the super-spit later and not judge anyone who is super stoked for it now.

 

Cheers,

 

Fafnir_6

So we should get the Ta 152 is what you're saying... cool! ? 

[LukeFF]

28 minutes ago, Fafnir_6 said:

The Spitfire XIV (teardrop) is the RAF equivalent of the Ta152H-1 in my mind....In service for a very short time at the end of the war in a squadron or two.  Not super helpful for the career mode or offline use but excellent for the multiplayer crowd. 

 

The new Spitfire XIV was in service with 3 squadrons, so the equivalent of a full wing, and was in regular, everyday service for about 50 days. Not to mention, if the war had gone on longer in the Far East, all those sent there would have seen action as well. Yes, the Ta 152 didn't see much action, but it's not an equal comparison - the Germans could barely put a fighter force in the sky in the spring of 1945 in the West.

Edited May 18, 2022 by LukeFF

[Fafnir_6]

32 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

 

The new Spitfire XIV was in service with 3 squadrons, so the equivalent of a full wing, and was in regular, everyday service for about 50 days. Not to mention, if the war had gone on longer in the Far East, all those sent there would have seen action as well. Yes, the Ta 152 didn't see much action, but it's not an equal comparison - the Germans could barely put a fighter force in the sky in the spring of 1945 in the West.

True...but it's still the British equivalent of a wunderwaffe.   This is not a complaint.  I'm sure it will sell like hotcakes amongst the MP crowd, hopefully funding future developments for SP :). As you stated, the situations between the RAF and Luftwaffe were not equivalent at the time but these types would fill a very similar deployment niche within their respective air forces.

 

32 minutes ago, Asgar said:

So we should get the Ta 152 is what you're saying... cool! ? 

 Haha...I suppose???!   It would also sell very well to the MP crowd...so if they need money to go to the Pacific or the Isonzo Line I am 100% behind it.

 

Cheers,

 

Fafnir_6

Edited May 18, 2022 by Fafnir_6

[CountZero]

46 minutes ago, Fafnir_6 said:

True...but it's still the British equivalent of a wunderwaffe.   This is not a complaint.  I'm sure it will sell like hotcakes amongst the MP crowd, hopefully funding future developments for SP :). As you stated, the situations between the RAF and Luftwaffe were not equivalent at the time but these types would fill a very similar deployment niche within their respective air forces.

 

 Haha...I suppose???!   It would also sell very well to the MP crowd...so if they need money to go to the Pacific or the Isonzo Line I am 100% behind it.

 

Cheers,

 

Fafnir_6

I think Meteor is better fit for british wonder stuff and amount used.

 

The thing with Allied late war designs is they didnt have to bather with them, there is some interesting airplanes that didnt get aproved, or build in bigger numbers or even send to combat if they were build, as there was no need, big amount of old airplanes were more then enough to beat any LW that was left. They could have all 1400+ 262s, and even cheep to build 162s, stelth 229, and so on... and would still have 0 chance to even extend war or win.

Edited May 18, 2022 by CountZero

[Fafnir_6]

15 minutes ago, CountZero said:

I think Meteor is better fit for british wonder stuff and amount used.

 

The thing with Allied late war designs is they didnt have to bather with them, there is some interesting airplanes that didnt get aproved as there was no need, old airplanes were more then enough to beat any LW that was left.

The Gloster Meteor is the equivalent of the Me262A-1.   They are very similar both in terms form/function and in terms of when they became operational (July, 1944 or so).  Meteors did eventually deploy to the continent, to bases that are on the Bodenplatte map.  Given its equivalency to the Me262A-1 (which we have) and the fact that it was historically deployed to our map (in Apr, 1945), I'd say the Meteor F.III is worthy of inclusion in our sim (but is likely waaaaay more work to include than a teardrop Spitfire F.XIV). The case for it becomes stronger if we get a map of Kent where they did their early work tipping V-1s (which actually constituted the bulk of the Meteor's WWII career).

 

Cheers,

 

Fafnir_6

Edited May 18, 2022 by Fafnir_6

[Gunbus]

Here is the Ex TFC Spitfire  MV293 G-SPIT was the first example of its mark to be flying in Europe at that time and was painted in the all silver colours of the post war RAF. In 2000, the aircraft was repainted in the colours of Johnnie Johnson, as a surprise for his attendance at Flying Legends and as a tribute to his last war service Spitfire. be nice if we get the markings of Jonnie johnson

[BMA_FlyingShark]

1 hour ago, Gunbus said:

be nice if we get the markings of Jonnie johnson

Good idea, I hope they'll add them.

 

Have a nice day.

 

[zan64]

On 5/19/2022 at 5:30 AM, Fafnir_6 said:

The Gloster Meteor is the equivalent of the Me262A-1.   They are very similar both in terms form/function and in terms of when they became operational (July, 1944 or so).  Meteors did eventually deploy to the continent, to bases that are on the Bodenplatte map.  Given its equivalency to the Me262A-1 (which we have) and the fact that it was historically deployed to our map (in Apr, 1945), I'd say the Meteor F.III is worthy of inclusion in our sim (but is likely waaaaay more work to include than a teardrop Spitfire F.XIV). The case for it becomes stronger if we get a map of Kent where they did their early work tipping V-1s (which actually constituted the bulk of the Meteor's WWII career).

 

Cheers,

 

Fafnir_6

aren't meteors much slower though? i think P-80s also slower

[Cybermat47]

3 minutes ago, zan64 said:

aren't meteors much slower though? i think P-80s also slower

 

They're faster than anything else the Allies have.

[Vishnu]

 

The best way to rectify the meteor versus Ta 152 vs  “whatever” debate is to do earlier modules.   Lots of planes to choose from in Battle of France. 

[Noisemaker]

9 hours ago, Vishnu said:

 

 

The best way to rectify the meteor versus Ta 152 vs  “whatever” debate is to do earlier modules.   Lots of planes to choose from in Battle of France. 

As much as I'd love to see some of those aircraft, I'm not buying a campaign that only lasts 6 weeks. 

[Cybermat47]

3 hours ago, Noisemaker said:

As much as I'd love to see some of those aircraft, I'm not buying a campaign that only lasts 6 weeks. 

 

I would, I never last more than a week or two in career mode lol

[Trooper117]

3 hours ago, Noisemaker said:

As much as I'd love to see some of those aircraft, I'm not buying a campaign that only lasts 6 weeks. 

 

You bought Bodenplatte, that only lasted a friggin day!!!

[Ghost666]

6 hours ago, Noisemaker said:

As much as I'd love to see some of those aircraft, I'm not buying a campaign that only lasts 6 weeks. 

It would be my luck that it would be the only career that lasted more then a week or two.

[BlitzPig_EL]

Tell you what, you can have all your wonderwaffe, as long as I can have:  

 

P51H

P81 Twin Mustang

F7F Tigercat

Hawker Sea Fury

P80 Shooting Star

Boeing B29 Super Fortress

 

And the oceans of fuel we could provide, and the logistics capability to make these aircraft an aluminum overcast covering the whole of Western Europe.

 

K thanks bye...

[Alexmarine]

35 minutes ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

 

F-81 Twin Mustang

F7F Tigercat

Hawker Sea Fury

F-80 Shooting Star

Boeing B-29 Super Fortress

 

 

 

Impressive, very nice... But we know that you don't need all that to counter some nazi junks, let's give them some actual opposition:

 

[Noisemaker]

3 hours ago, Trooper117 said:

 

You bought Bodenplatte, that only lasted a friggin day!!!

Well, luckily they didn't limit the campaign map to exclusively that particular operation.  BOF, on the other hand has a pretty severe time/activity restriction before and after the allied defeat.  In order to make it viable as a module, they'd have to extend it through to the BOB (Which I would throw money at immediately), which is unlikely to happen due to the other related sim.

[Eisenfaustus]

44 minutes ago, Noisemaker said:

Well, luckily they didn't limit the campaign map to exclusively that particular operation.  BOF, on the other hand has a pretty severe time/activity restriction before and after the allied defeat.  In order to make it viable as a module, they'd have to extend it through to the BOB (Which I would throw money at immediately), which is unlikely to happen due to the other related sim.

Or include the phoney war which had at least some air action and then BoF lasts 10 months ^^

[Noisemaker]

1 hour ago, Eisenfaustus said:

Or include the phoney war which had at least some air action and then BoF lasts 10 months ^^

So nine months of small, ineffective bombing raids and reconnaissance?  Meh...

[Eisenfaustus]

4 minutes ago, Noisemaker said:

So nine months of small, ineffective bombing raids and reconnaissance?  Meh...

Small bombing raids and corresponding intercepts as well as free hunt make up the bulk of missions in current career as well. 
And since the current career thankfully is unrealistic enough to vastly inflate combat (in real life most sorties wouldn’t find air opposition) I see no reason not to do it for the phoney war as well

[Avimimus]

3 hours ago, Noisemaker said:

Well, luckily they didn't limit the campaign map to exclusively that particular operation.  BOF, on the other hand has a pretty severe time/activity restriction before and after the allied defeat.  In order to make it viable as a module, they'd have to extend it through to the BOB (Which I would throw money at immediately), which is unlikely to happen due to the other related sim.

 

Well, the Mechelen incident required breaking a number of regulations - there are a lot of reasons why it shouldn't have happened. Without it the Ardennes breakthrough doesn't happen, the French army has an opportunity to rally, and the battle could have been extended by months. This is actually the most likely scenario historically. Our timeline is a less probably one.

 

As for the actual battle - a lot went on, and there quite a few sorties flown. Some of the aircraft can also be used for scenarios in the Mediterranean and the Near East.

 

As for the battle itself - check out this thread:

 

[EAF19_Marsh]

On 5/22/2022 at 9:37 PM, Avimimus said:

Well, the Mechelen incident required breaking a number of regulations - there are a lot of reasons why it shouldn't have happened. Without it the Ardennes breakthrough doesn't happen, the French army has an opportunity to rally, and the battle could have been extended by months. This is actually the most likely scenario historically. Our timeline is a less probably one.

 

As for the actual battle - a lot went on, and there quite a few sorties flown. Some of the aircraft can also be used for scenarios in the Mediterranean and the Near East.

 

As for the battle itself - check out this thread:

 

Completely agree: one of the few times in war when on side did exactly what the other hoped and then reacted poorly once the mistake had been realised. By all balanced assessments it really should not have unfolded the way it did. But that's life.

 

Given the BoBp and BoN maps we have about 90% of the necessary terrain. Not sure how good documentation is for the French aircraft, but if it were offered I would certainly pre-order.

[Trooper117]

I'd say the French Aircraft side of things is in the same ball park as the Japanese aircraft... if they did go for the Battle of France, there there would be no reason why they couldn't 'wing it' for the Pacific...

[EAF19_Marsh]

On 5/18/2022 at 9:44 PM, Fafnir_6 said:

The Spitfire XIV (teardrop) is the RAF equivalent of the Ta152H-1 in my mind....In service for a very short time at the end of the war in a squadron or two.  Not super helpful for the career mode or offline use but excellent for the multiplayer crowd.  I imagine much profit will ensue. This is actually true for all three of the newly announced pre-orders.  It's no issue though...whatever funds me more theatres, recon planes  and bombers in WWII and more 2-seaters and fronts in the WWI game.   I'll grab the WWI birds for sure...might get the super-spit later and not judge anyone who is super stoked for it now.

 

Cheers,

 

Fafnir_6

The Ta-152 equivalent would be the Mk.21 but that would offer no great benefits over our XIVs.

[Eisenfaustus]

12 hours ago, Trooper117 said:

I'd say the French Aircraft side of things is in the same ball park as the Japanese aircraft... if they did go for the Battle of France, there there would be no reason why they couldn't 'wing it' for the Pacific...

How do you know documentation for French A/C is as scarce?

[Trooper117]

4 hours ago, Eisenfaustus said:

How do you know documentation for French A/C is as scarce?

 

Educated guess... I mean, how many other sims do you know that have done a credible pack of early French aircraft that are accurately modelled and flyable.

[Eisenfaustus]

The only other combat sims that model aircraft in a comparable Detail to BoX are CLOD and DCS - and neither feature the battle of France. 
 

Yet I‘m not entirely sure why the documentation for Japanese aircraft is such a problem - so I have no idea if the same problems exist for European aircraft. 
 

The upcoming Siemens Schuckert was produced in lower quantities at an earlier time in the wake of a catastrophic defeat - so I guess finding 5 important French planetypes that are producable is possible. I think it’s more a question wether that was deemed marketable. 

[zan64]

you'd be surprised at the french aviation enthusiasts. firstly there is a really detailed detailed M.S.406 https://secure.simmarket.com/swiss-military-pilot-volume-1-19401950-fsx-p3d.phtml , not as pretty as our il2 but the sim is all there

 

there is also a group that makes french aviation freeware for fsx/p3d http://royalefrenchnavy.restauravia.fr/RFN-Avions.htm , i am sure some of them have a collection of some technical data regarding the aircraft.

 

 

 

problem though is sales, i want japanese planes as do many others

Edited May 28, 2022 by zan64

[Noisemaker]

1 hour ago, zan64 said:

not as pretty as our il2 but the sim is all there

I don't know...  I live here, and I think they did a damn fine job with the alps.  The video is unfortunately only 720p, so hard to get a feel for the fine details.

 

[EAF19_Marsh]

2 hours ago, zan64 said:

problem though is sales

 

And there the head you have hit with the nub.

[Vishnu]

On 5/27/2022 at 5:14 AM, Trooper117 said:

 

Educated guess... I mean, how many other sims do you know that have done a credible pack of early French aircraft that are accurately modelled and flyable.

WWIIOL has the Dewo.  

[Enceladus828]

On 5/27/2022 at 11:00 AM, Eisenfaustus said:

The only other combat sims that model aircraft in a comparable Detail to BoX are CLOD and DCS - and neither feature the battle of France. 

Actually, CloD does include a portion of the Battle of France with the D.520 campaign On Ne Passe Pas and the Single mission Battle on the Somme for Desert Wings-Tobruk. There are some 3rd party campaigns (I'm a bit rusty on who made them) which cover the Battle of France with planes from the Blitz plane set.

 

But what CloD/IL-2 Dover series has for the Battle of France is better than nothing.

[357th_KW]

On 5/28/2022 at 3:06 AM, zan64 said:

you'd be surprised at the french aviation enthusiasts. firstly there is a really detailed detailed M.S.406 https://secure.simmarket.com/swiss-military-pilot-volume-1-19401950-fsx-p3d.phtml , not as pretty as our il2 but the sim is all there

 

there is also a group that makes french aviation freeware for fsx/p3d http://royalefrenchnavy.restauravia.fr/RFN-Avions.htm , i am sure some of them have a collection of some technical data regarding the aircraft.

 

 

 

problem though is sales, i want japanese planes as do many others

I think there is at least one MS406 still flying.  I’d bet you could put together a pretty decent French plane set, but as you say the sales appeal might be limited.

[Ptolemy_Soter]

On 5/27/2022 at 7:00 PM, Eisenfaustus said:

Yet I‘m not entirely sure why the documentation for Japanese aircraft is such a problem

 

I'm pretty sure the problem is not a lack of documentation but the difficulty for a western person to access this documentation.

Same for France. There is plenty of archives at Vincennes but it's written in French.

 

Germany lost tons of archival materials during WWII. Even WWI Luftstreitkräfte archives suffered badly at this time.

Still, modeling a German aircraft does not seem to cause trouble to our dev team.

[Dragon1-1]

So did Japan. In addition, the Japanese were much more secretive and prone to destroying their documentation. Having much of their architecture made out of flammable materials didn't help matters, remember that Tokyo was firebombed into oblivion by the US. Germans, to the contrary, were very meticulous, the stereotype of them being efficient and obsessed with bureaucracy has some basis in fact. 

 

For the French, I suspect it's mostly that their WWII aircraft are relatively obscure, so preserving their heritage never got as much attention as the more famous designs. Also, most of their documents and equipment were captured by the Germans and ended up bombed together with German stuff. French language should be no bigger obstacle than German when it comes to the material. 

[Ptolemy_Soter]

French aircrafts are obscure outside France.

I work at the French national library and we have WWII periodicals about aviation, manufacturer documentation (just like any USAAF or RAF technical documentation), photographs etc...

All surviving Armée de l'Air archives are stored in Vincennes near Paris.

 

I'm pretty sure the events of 1940 are responsible of this obscurity.

 

For the Japanese I really don't understand why it is so complicated. Their planes were tested by Americans and British pilots who wrote official reports.

Flyable aircrafts are found in the US. even an aircraft build in small number like the Gekko is displayed in a museum.

Edited June 1, 2022 by Ptolemy_Soter

[CountZero]

2 hours ago, Ptolemy_Soter said:

French aircrafts are obscure outside France.

I work at the French national library and we have WWII periodicals about aviation, manufacturer documentation (just like any USAAF or RAF technical documentation), photographs etc...

All surviving Armée de l'Air archives are stored in Vincennes near Paris.

 

I'm pretty sure the events of 1940 are responsible of this obscurity.

 

For the Japanese I really don't understand why it is so complicated. Their planes were tested by Americans and British pilots who wrote official reports.

Flyable aircrafts are found in the US. even an aircraft build in small number like the Gekko is displayed in a museum.

 

Regarding whats problem with pacific you have it here from dev

At this point im suprised ppl still think PTO is no problem to do.