Entente bombsight "look ahead mode"

[=IRFC=Gascan]

I can't help but notice that the Entente bomb sights seem to be missing a key capability that all of the Central bomb sights do: the ability to look forward.

All of the German bomb sights are the same: the Gotha, DFW, and Halberstadt all have a bomb sight for the observer/gunner/bomb-layer to operate. I have screenshots of each installation at the end of the post. It appears to have a stop watch and several knobs for adjustment.

 

In the bomb sight view, which can only be accessed from the pilots seat and not the gunner seat, you can see several instruments and several setting adjustments. Airspeed in KPH, altitude in KM, heading. There are adjustments for altitude, airspeed, wind angle (ahead and behind only), wind speed, and single bomb or all bombs. More importantly, there is also a "mode" switch. In the eyeball view, it allows the viewer to look ahead and to either side while searching for the target to line up on. I know this was a feature on many WW2 bomb sights, but am not sure about it's implementation on WW1 bomb sights, which were generally much simpler. If this was not actually a capability of the WW1 bomb sight depicted in the game and there is no easy way for the bomb-layer to look forward, then the "mode" switch should be removed. Specifically, the Gotha should probably keep it while the DFW and Halberstadt lose it. I don't know if the bomb sight actually had this capability, though, and since it is included in the game, I'm willing to accept it as is.

 

German bomb sight, with arrow pointing at the "mode" switch:

 

 

Gotha bomb sight:

 

DFW bomb sight:

 

Halberstadt bomb sight:

 

What I find truly confusing is that the "look ahead mode" feature is missing from Entente bomb sights. In order to achieve a similar effect, the player must set altitude very low and speed very high to force the bomb sight to look ahead. When near the target, the settings must be adjusted back to the correct values, or the bombs will miss. This is very cumbersome and prone to failure as the pilot struggles to adjust settings in time for bomb release. In the Handley Page, it is also possible for the pilot to hop into the front gunner seat to get a better view of the target to line up on, but must return to the pilots seat to set the bomb sight settings. This goes out the window if a human gunner is riding the front gun seat, and the gunner blocks the pilot's forward view if he stands up. Since it is not possible to lock a single gun seat, either all gun seats are available and my excellent viewing position can be taken away, or no gun seats are available, and I must rely on the AI and prevent human gunners from assisting me.

If you look at where the bomb sights are located, I believe the Handley Page and the DH-4 should have the "look ahead mode." For other planes like the Bristol and the Breguet, it is entirely reasonable to leave it out. While the HP's pilot has a small viewing window between his legs, this is not the bomb sight. The bomb sight is installed up on the nose for the forward gunner to operate. If he is able to lean forward to look down at the bomb sight, I see no reason he would be unable to simply look forward to spot the target and help line up the bomb run without having to adjust the bomb sight settings. The same is true for the DH-4, where the bomb sight is located on the starboard/right side of the plane. The observer/gunner can must lean over the side to operate the bomb sight, and can still get a good view forward simply by turning his head.

The Bristol bomb sight is a tube between the pilot's legs, without any visible knobs or dials for adjustment. Since the pilot would not be able to look forward over the nose to spot a target on the ground very easily, and since the bomb sight is so limited in the first place (per the brass label plate, it only has two speeds and two altitudes to use), it seems perfectly reasonable to leave the "look ahead mode" out. The Breguet bomb sight is located in the observer's cockpit, with what looks like a mount that swings out from a storage position. The "bomb bay doors" must also be opened, opening up a view through the floor of the plane. Like the Bristol, this doesn't provide a good view forward. It seems reasonable to me to leave the "look ahead mode" out as well.

I also noticed that the Bristol has wind correction, while the Breguet does not. I find it doubtful that the Bristol had this ability due to the very limited nature of it's construction. Since the Breguet was also used extensively as a bomber, it seems like wind correction would have been desirable. However, early bomb sights didn't always have this ability, so I find it believable that this was not possible for this particular bomb sight.

 

To be clear: I am suggesting that the Handley Page and the DH-4 should get the "look ahead mode" switch since the person operating the bomb sight would have been able to look ahead to spot the target very easily. I would like to verify if the German bomb sight had the ability to look ahead. If not, the DFW and the Halberstadt should have the "look ahead mode" removed while the Gotha keeps it since the observer/bomb layer can easily look forward. I would also like to verify the ability of the Bristol and Breguet to compensate for wind speed and direction, since I suspect the Bristol could not. It would also be nice if the player could enter the bomb sight from the gunner position in addition to the pilot position, since I like to do that for both the Gotha and the HP, but that's really minor in comparison.

 

Handley Page cockpit:

 

Handley Page bomb sight

 

DH-4 bomb sight:

 

Bristol bomb sight:

 

Breguet bomb sight:

 

For comparison sake, here are the different bomb sight view, so you can see the different controls.

German: altitude (0.1km), airspeed (1kph), wind speed (1m/s), wind direction (fwd/aft), "look ahead mode"

 

Handley Page: altitude (0.1km), airspeed (10kph), wind speed (1m/s), wind direction (full circle)

 

DH-4: altitude (0.1km), airspeed (10kph), wind speed (1m/s), wind direction (fwd/aft)

 

Bristol: altitude (3km or 4.5km), airspeed (110kph or 130kph), wind speed (1m/s), wind direction (fwd/aft)

 

Breguet: altitude (0.1km), airspeed (10kph), "bomb bay"

 

On a side note, I noticed that the Breguet and the DH-4 have a complete duplicate set of controls for the gunner, which can be used in the event of a control wire getting cut or the pilot getting wounded. The control stick is just off to the left in the cockpit, ready to be installed if needed. It would be kinda nice to have the gunner take over flying the plane if the pilot gets killed, rather than bailing out. It's especially ridiculous to see an Entente gunner jump out with no parachute when the plane could historically be flown from the gunner position. I imagine this would take whole lot of work to benefit only a couple plane, so it seems very unlikely.

 

Breguet duplicate controls:

 

DH-4 duplicate controls:

[J2_Seya]

You don't get it because your planes are easier to fly. The trade off is you easy to fly and fight and no forward looking bomb sights. You can't have both.

Edited May 8, 2022 by J2_Seya

[[F.Circus]Gorn_Captain]

On 5/7/2022 at 10:51 PM, gascan said:

I know this was a feature on many WW2 bomb sights, but am not sure about it's implementation on WW1 bomb sights, which were generally much simpler. If this was not actually a capability of the WW1 bomb sight depicted in the game and there is no easy way for the bomb-layer to look forward, then the "mode" switch should be removed. Specifically, the Gotha should probably keep it while the DFW and Halberstadt lose it. I don't know if the bomb sight actually had this capability, though, and since it is included in the game, I'm willing to accept it as is.

 

The look ahead mode was actually a feature of German bombsights. There's unfortunately little information out there about them. (at least not easily findable) There were several different types manufactured by different lens-makers. Goerz being the name that's cropped up most in my own reading. The 'look ahead' mode was a feature of these sights, and achieved by a reflective prism in the bottom of the sight that could be angled by a twist function on the scope.

 

Hans Schröder's memoir (which I do recommend if you can find a copy. He had a very unique perspective on the war), brings up observer training in 1916 requiring them to learn how to use two different bombsights that were equivalent in capability, but with some small differences. (he doesn't give model names) Both were capable of 'looking ahead', the primary difference was that one required a clockwise twist to look forward, the other anti-clockwise. As they were used interchangably, it led to a lot of issues... Those sights were equipped to two-seaters at the training squadron, so I think it likely they were in use in front line operations as well. This picture of a Goerz Zeppelin bombsight (if the ancient ebay listing is to be believed, so pinch of salt) looks almost identical to the bombsights fitted in game, and I don't see much reason why Germany couldn't have fitted them in two-seaters, aside from resource shortages and the difficulty of making the complex lenses of course. That not being relevant in a game with reflector sights and rotary engines that don't explode due to synthetic castor oil.
 

 

I have seen photos of German aircraft with the cruder 'metal frame strapped to the side of the fuselage' bombsights too', but in game we only have the fancy types with lenses.

 

I do quite like that the game represents this difference in sights. The real problem I feel is that the entente sights remove your peripheral vision as if you had your eye pressed to a scope. It restricts your vision in a way that simply wouldn't happen with the actual sights. (the bristol and the breguet excepted.) On release the DH4 bombsight had a bug where the 'scope tunnel vision' was removed, and the DH4's model was still visible (surprisingly the bombsight camera was actually placed on the side of the aircraft where the bombsight is, a nice detail). it would be great if that could return.

 

I don't think the Entente should get the same 'look forward' ability, as the difference between eyeballing what's in front of you and lining it up with an actual fixed scope makes a huge difference for bombing. 

 

Perhaps a 'look ahead' mode that hides the reticule and sight information when in use would work better? It'd solve the clunkiness of having to enter and exit the bombsight to look ahead, while still preserving the unique operation of the German sights. Perhaps such a feature should be highly restricted on the breguet and the brisfit too, as they have to aim through the floor.

[JG4_Moltke1871]

What’s the problem? Just play with altitude, windspeed and airspeed and you will see you can have a comfortable look forward