Skin request....if it hasn't already been done? Gunther Rall May 12th 1944

[Mysticpuma]

Hi, I am just wondering if anyone has created this skin please? If so, would there be a link that could be shared?

If not....any skinners out there willing to give it a try?

 

"On 12 May, the Eighth Air Force targeted the German fuel industry. In total 886 four-engined bombers, escorted by 980 fighter aircraft, headed for the five main synthetic fuel factories in middle Germany in area of Leuna, Merseburg, Böhlen and Zeitz, and the Protectorate of Bohemia and Moravia and Brüx. That day, Rall was leading a Staffel of Bf 109s and bounced a flight of three Republic P-47 Thunderbolt fighters led by Colonel Hubert Zemke. Zemke was experimenting with a new tactic, the "Zemke fan", in which independent flights scattered in front of the bombers in order to cover as much sky as possible, thereby maximising the chance of intercepting German fighters. Zemke's flight had strayed too far in front of the bomber stream, and the fighters of JG 11 spotted an opening. The Zemke tactic left flights of P-47s—numbering four—isolated if large numbers of Bf 109s were encountered.

Rall was flying at 36,000 feet (11,000 meters) without cabin heating or pressurization, and 10,000 feet (3,000 meters) above the Fw 190s. Rall attacked claiming a Thunderbolt. His Staffel were then ambushed by other P-47s. Rall dived to escape, but his Bf 109 could not out-dive the Thunderbolts, which were attacking in line-abreast, preventing him from turning left or right. Rall was near to 620 miles per hour (1,000 kilometers per hour), but took hits in his engine and radiator by pilots of the 56th Fighter Group. Rall's left thumb was hit, and after he cleared the ice from his windshield with his remaining good hand, he decided there was no escape, and bailed out. He landed in a tree on a steep slope, which rolled down into a gully after releasing his parachute harness. By luck, he avoided aggravating his earlier back injury and was tended to by farmers. Rall was hospitalised for many months in Nassau. Doctors found his thumb was attached only by skin and could not be saved. Rall credited the wound with saving his life as the Eighth Air Force established air superiority over Germany through the remainder of the war.

Rall's unit succeeded in this battle, but at a high cost. Besides Rall's claim of one P-47, two North American P-51 Mustang fighters were also claimed by other pilots. The group lost 11 Bf 109s, with two pilots killed and five wounded—all of the stabschwarm were shot down."

 

Cheers, Mysticpuma

 

Edited May 5, 2022 by Mysticpuma

[RaFiGer]

@Mysticpuma

 

would that be that plane, Stab II./JG 11 and Bf-109 G6 with older setup?

If so, I would like to paint it! 

 

 

BTW:

I own  "Mein Flugbuch" by Kurt Braatz, who wrote the Biography of Günther Rall. On the page 206 till 210 his memories was noted while his engagement with Col. Zemke and the talk they had joining the flight training in the U.S.A., where he meet the former enemies of Zemkes squadron in person.

 

But there are not really much sources regarding the true colur scheme, but the one above is definitly an good choice. But I thik it is better to paint a white spiral than 2 white rings 

 

Edited May 5, 2022 by RaFiGer
Addition's

[Misty06]

Not sure about Haluters but this plane is found in these forums across at LEAST 2 models of the 109. Have fun searching though.

[Mysticpuma]

Rafiger, I have been contacted by A-E-Hartmann who has offered to make the skin. I am happy to see yours if you are still interested? 

Thanks for the kind offer, very much appreciated, cheers, MP

[KOHTYP]

 

who is looking, he will always find!

[A-E-Hartmann]

1 hour ago, Mysticpuma said:

Rafiger, I have been contacted by A-E-Hartmann who has offered to make the skin. I am happy to see yours if you are still interested? 

Thanks for the kind offer, very much appreciated, cheers, MP

It's always good to have multiple authors. For the same skin. If Rafiger wants to do it too, that doesn't bother me, and I really like his work.

[RaFiGer]

Thanks A-E-Hartmann for your kind words

 

It is always a pleasure to have a community like us here with the possiblity  to enjoy differnent artist and their interpretation's!!!

 

@Musticpuma & KOHTYR

Boo made the skin based on my old template for the Bf-109 G6, so I will just take his work and adapt it to my new template based on the public template by ICDP!

Edited May 6, 2022 by RaFiGer
Addition's

[Mysticpuma]

7 hours ago, RaFiGer said:

Thanks A-E-Hartmann for your kind words

 

It is always a pleasure to have a community like us here with the possiblity  to enjoy differnent artist and their interpretation's!!!

 

@Musticpuma & KOHTYR

Boo made the skin based on my old template for the Bf-109 G6, so I will just take his work and adapt it to my new template based on the public template by ICDP!

Thank you, really looking forward to it.

 

Wondering what the thoughts are in regard to the two circles or stripe on the nose? Was John Shaw the artist in the original print mistaken? I only ask as I am fully aware of art that gets painted, then signed by pilots, yet the aircraft are wrong

 

Anthony Saunders created this piece, for which I supplied extensive research, wing tips historically accurate:

 

 

Nicholas Trudgian created this piece (signed by 4 Aces of the 325th) wingtips really not accurate    :

 

 

I know the process usually means the paper is signed and the print added afterwards......just hurts when there is a glaring mistake which usually only those interested in the group would understand

 

[BOO]

On 5/6/2022 at 7:06 AM, RaFiGer said:

Thanks A-E-Hartmann for your kind words

 

It is always a pleasure to have a community like us here with the possiblity  to enjoy differnent artist and their interpretation's!!!

 

@Musticpuma & KOHTYR

Boo made the skin based on my old template for the Bf-109 G6, so I will just take his work and adapt it to my new template based on the public template by ICDP!

@RaFiGer Do you want me to see if I can find the old template with the layers on? I cant promise as its been several years and I cant remember if I clouded the templates. If I dont have it, perhaps one of my old SCG teamates may have it. 

[BOO]

17 hours ago, Mysticpuma said:

Thank you, really looking forward to it.

 

Wondering what the thoughts are in regard to the two circles or stripe on the nose? Was John Shaw the artist in the original print mistaken? I only ask as I am fully aware of art that gets painted, then signed by pilots, yet the aircraft are wrong

 

I only did a very small amount of research for the skin I posted when I made it as it was a more of a project to balance up various elements within the template. I think the mottling was stock or a combination of layers Id previously created and not specifically based on any photos of RalIs aircraft. I chose the prop spinner design as it was one of about 4 used over various kits and colour plates (some good, some not) depicting the aircraft. I chose it as I did not have that design as a layer and its was something of a challenge to create so that it "rotated" in a pleasing manner in game.. I found no comtemporary photos that were definately Rall's aircraft of that time with the prop on display, nor any written references to it in the limited research I did. But, as I say, It was limited. 

[RaFiGer]

8 hours ago, BOO said:

@RaFiGer Do you want me to see if I can find the old template with the layers on? I cant promise as its been several years and I cant remember if I clouded the templates. If I dont have it, perhaps one of my old SCG teamates may have it. 

 

Hello Boo,

 

yes, that would be nice so it would be just to change the layer and the scheme is right and done  Then I would send it to you and you could repost it!!!

[BOO]

2 hours ago, RaFiGer said:

 

Hello Boo,

 

yes, that would be nice so it would be just to change the layer and the scheme is right and done  Then I would send it to you and you could repost it!!!

Hello RaFiGer

 

After some digging Ive found the Template and Ive reproduced, best I can, the paint layer of the skin I originally made and one without the leading edge overpaint. Ive exported them as pngs so you shouldnt have any bother with Photoshop. 

 

I'll PM you a link to a folder with them in once everything is uploaded to one drive. Ive also put the Gimp Template I used (its a little messy as it "evolved" over time) and original template I made the PIk As skins with from those fanststic decals you sent me the images of. 

 

I dont really skin anymore and dont really want to be messing about with Mediafire to post anythng new so please feel free to do as you wish with them

 

Best Wishes 

 

Boo

 

 

 

 

[RaFiGer]

Hello Boo,

 

thanks for your template files! I will adapt your skins to the new template and will post them on a special Boo page within my little ones

I was and is of course always a pleasure working with you

 

Stay well & healthy and we stay in contact!!!

Greetings Ralf aka RaFiGer

[sevenless]

Ralls machine with II./JG 11 would have pretty much looked like the machine of his predecessor. Günther Specht.

 

When he was shot down on 12th may AFAIK he flew a 109 G-6/AS. So closest looking plane in our game would be the late G6.

 

Edited May 12, 2022 by sevenless

[RaFiGer]

@sevenless

 

I have Rall's Biography and his report in the book "Mein Flugbuch". But there are very less images about his plane on that day. In Rodeikes Book " Jagdgeschwader 1 und 11" Part 2 1944 it's written, that JG1 and JG 11 had indeed Bf-109 G6/AS planes with which they covered the Fw-109 A engaging mainly the bomber's . On May 12th, 1944 Major Rall shot down on P-47 during after that he was hunted himself, severly damaged and had to bail out.

 

It's stated on page 934 (Part 1 till 3 are numbered as one book) that II./JG 11  "Höhengruppe" (High altitude protection) so a Bf-109 G6/AS is at that time the plane what was adapted to the U.S.A.A.F. Fighters P-47 and P-51.

There is of otherwise a picture on page 944 which shows Uffz. Siegfried Rudschinat with his Bf-109 G6 (no AS version) after his 7th air victory on 17th May 1944 where he shot down a P-51 fighter.

 

I would like to paint it the BOO'S  version is already finished and I ahve a second skin adapted to the older picture 

[RaFiGer]

@Community & BOO

 

I have adapted BOO's paint scheme to my reworked template and I have done two versions of the plane, one using BOO's skin and one more adapted to the picture of Rall's plane. I hope you like them and BOO could see his work well reworked using the new template for the Bf-109 G6

 

Thanks to sevenless I have corrected the mistake of shifting the plane to II./JG 11, its of course the version Günther Rall flown in February 1944 with III./JG 52!

Thanks again, sevenless

 

Just Teaser of the skins in game, download by tomorrow available:

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 14, 2022 by RaFiGer
Correction's

[sevenless]

49 minutes ago, RaFiGer said:

@Community & BOO

 

I have adapted BOO's paint scheme to my reworked template and I have done two versions of the plane, one using BOO's skin and one more adapted to the picture of Rall's plane. I hope you like them and BOO could see his work well reworked using the new template for the Bf-109 G6

 

Just Teaser of the skins in game, download by tomorrow available:

  Hide contents

 

 

 

 

@Rafiger, very nice skin. but you are certainly well aware that this shows Ralls plane of JG 52 at the eastern front while being group commander of III./JG 52 in 1943/44? The yellow markings and the III.Gruppe wave clearly indicates that.

 

Yes I have Ralls Flugbuch as published by 296 and Kurt Braatz myself. Excellent read. I also recommend their book about Krupinski who followed Rall as Kdr. II./JG 11 in may 1944 and Johnen´s book (JG 51) by the same series.

 

II./JG 11 markings in contrast have a 2nd Gruppe horizontal bar and no yellow markings (except the JG 11 specific Reichsverteidigungsband) as is shown in the sketch of Günther Spechts plane above.

Edited May 14, 2022 by sevenless

[RaFiGer]

@sevenless

 

thanks for the input & correction, and yes I aware of this historical issue & and will change it to III./JG 52 on the pictures  

I will add then the yellow RVT of JG 11 and the horizontal bar to have it correct!!!

 

BTW: I will also add the Bf-109 G6/R3 of Siegfried Rudschinat of 10./JG 11 using this profile to the downloads

Spoiler

 

Edited May 14, 2022 by RaFiGer

[sevenless]

8 minutes ago, RaFiGer said:

@sevenless

 

thanks for the input & correction, and yes I aware of this historical issue & and will change it to III./JG 52 on the pictures  

I will add then the yellow RVT of JG 11 and the horizontal bar to have it correct!!!

 

BTW: I will also add the Bf-109 G6/R3 of Siegfried Rudschinat of 10./JG 11using this profile to the downloads

  Hide contents

 

 

Excellent! If you can find a scheme of Heinz Knoke, squad leader of 5./JG 11 that would be nice too.

 

 

Found a scheme of JG 11 Stabsschwarm in 1944. Late G6:

 

[RaFiGer]

Thanks, sevenless

 

Nice find!

 

The one of Heinz Knoke I have, so its a deal

Normally the numeral should be green, instead of red because green numerals was used with Stab plane. I will change it to green but use otherwise the profile with the Bf-109 G6late template

[RaFiGer]

@Community

 

Sorry for missing yesterday, but here are the paintschemes representing BOO's art for the three schemes of Bf-109 G6/R3 possibly flown by Günther Rall with III./JG 52 and II./JG 11.

 

First the banner belonging to the new page:

 

And here are the page with the download package as MOD File using JSGME because of the new Normal Map which differs from the original one a little bit

BOO's paintschemes adapted for new public template with additions by RaFiGer

 

[Mysticpuma]

7 hours ago, RaFiGer said:

@Community

 

Sorry for missing yesterday, but here are the paintschemes representing BOO's art for the three schemes of Bf-109 G6/R3 possibly flown by Günther Rall with III./JG 52 and II./JG 11.

 

First the banner belonging to the new page:

 

And here are the page with the download package as MOD File using JSGME because of the new Normal Map which differs from the original one a little bit

BOO's paintschemes adapted for new public template with additions by RaFiGer

 

 

Thank you for your help with this, very much appreciated. 

Regarding the initial post, I noted at the bottom of the report for the incident it states, "The group lost 11 Bf 109s, with two pilots killed and five wounded—all of the stabschwarm were shot down."

 

I read in your link to Rall's skin:

"The planes of II./JG 11 sported no symbols on their planes, instead the fighter planes had a black Spinner with a thick white spiral, the black bar representing second group and a yellow RVT band around the fuselage" 

 

Does this mean all the aircraft had the same markings? 

Sorry to ask, it will just make creating the video a lot easier with other aircraft markings confirmed ?

 

Cheers, MP

 

[sevenless]

@RaFiGerVery nice! If you can transfer that skin to a G6-late that would be perfect ?

 

[RaFiGer]

@Mysticpuma

 

Most Luftwaffe Jagdgeschwader in early and late 1944 don't paint their symbols on the planes anymore but there are of course exceptions (e.g. JG 3, JG 4 or JG 53) but for JG 11 and their guardian symbol I have at the moment no photografic evidence for that period. So, yes only the yellow RVT ribbon gave the hint to JG 11.

 

Their are personal symbols like the ones the Bf-109 G1 of Heinz Knoke "Wedding rings with Lilo" and the "Jagdstaffel Holland" symbol on the plane fuselage underneth the Cockpit from April to late summer 1943, but not any more later. And JG 11 abandoned even on the Fw-109 A-series these symbols by June 1944!

 

I will paint beside the "White 1" of Siegfried Rudschinat with 10./JG 11 some more Bf-109 G6 of JG 11 to have a bunch of fighter's available

 

@sevenless

 

Yes, I transfer the scheme to a Bf-109G6late, it will take not too long

[BOO]

2 hours ago, RaFiGer said:

@Mysticpuma

 

Most Luftwaffe Jagdgeschwader in early and late 1944 don't paint their symbols on the planes anymore but there are of course exceptions (e.g. JG 3, JG 4 or JG 53) but for JG 11 and their guardian symbol I have at the moment no photografic evidence for that period. So, yes only the yellow RVT ribbon gave the hint to JG 11.

 

Their are personal symbols like the ones the Bf-109 G1 of Heinz Knoke "Wedding rings with Lilo" and the "Jagdstaffel Holland" symbol on the plane fuselage underneth the Cockpit from April to late summer 1943, but not any more later. And JG 11 abandoned even on the Fw-109 A-series these symbols by June 1944!

 

I will paint beside the "White 1" of Siegfried Rudschinat with 10./JG 11 some more Bf-109 G6 of JG 11 to have a bunch of fighter's available

 

@sevenless

 

Yes, I transfer the scheme to a Bf-109G6late, it will take not too long

 

Dunno if this helps or hinders but the attached image is from 8th April 1944 and its either a G5/AS or G6/AS (dependent on where you choose to get off down the cockpit air ram/Erla conversion rabbithole) belonging to II/JG11's GK Gunter Specht on the day he was awarded his Ritterkruz. The unit's Der Wachter emblem is clearly displayed.

 

Sadly the occasion and its chief operator's rank means it doesnt really prove or disprove that the unit had, in general, dropped or kept the emblem (Hangar Queen, Gruppe hack, repaint for the camera, Boss's aircraft etc).

 

If I were skinning something from the period, given the limited info around, I go on assumption that anything from the Ostfront would have likely got rid of their unit emblems sharpish from early to mid 1943 unless photos proved otherwise whilst DotR/Western Front units may have held off a little longer unit Sh got real. Also dependent upon how confident they were about local resistance intel gathering/ not leaving stuff behind.

 

Airframe attrition both enemy and general mechanical and the fact that its always more fun to paint pretty pictures on aircraft when the baddies arent shooting directly at you as you run blindly from one overrun mud patch to another is another lesser factor in how fast emblems may have dissappeared from units....

 

@RaFiGer the photo with the re-painted leading edge was Barkhorn not Rall as I first thought. Image attached

 

 

Edited May 17, 2022 by BOO

[Mysticpuma]

3 hours ago, RaFiGer said:

I will paint beside the "White 1" of Siegfried Rudschinat with 10./JG 11 some more Bf-109 G6 of JG 11 to have a bunch of fighter's available

That would be incredibly useful ?

Thanks, MP

[RaFiGer]

@BOO

 

Thanks for the photograph. I also found the book... It's a book covering Gerhard Barkhorn "Das vergessene As" (Forgotten Ace). It's a real good book with profiles by Claes Sundin

 

Yes, I know the one from Specht... its AS Version which we don't have  

 

There are so many beautiful profiles for a AS Version, but not much likes to wide the Bf-109 series! But we get another Spit..., nice year... but not a really a plane for covering "Bodenplatte" Scenarios

 

[RaFiGer]

@sevenless

 

Adaptation to Bf-109G6late, one shot with normal set-up, second with MW50 & MK 108 (some flaws I will get rid off & it comes with two more JG 11 around weekend)  

Spoiler

 

 

Edited May 19, 2022 by RaFiGer

[A-E-Hartmann]

Here is my version ?; 

Spoiler

 

 

 

[Hien-0_1*]

Hi A-E-Hartmann!

sorry, without download link ????

[A-E-Hartmann]

29 minutes ago, Hien-0_1* said:

Hi A-E-Hartmann!

sorry, without download link ????

 

I think I can also put the link here.

I'll put the links on my skin page don't worry. But first I have to update my page and some skins on the right model.

Edited May 23, 2022 by A-E-Hartmann

[A-E-Hartmann]

Hi all ,

 

Here is the link for Gunter Rall's G-6.

https://www.mediafire.com/file/j2yoie533fytruf/GUNTER+RALL.7z/file.

(Warning Swastika includes Historical Model).

 

Good flight to all and watch your 6 hours ??.

 

 

Edited May 24, 2022 by A-E-Hartmann

[Hien-0_1*]

Merci beaucoup  ?

Hi A-E-Hartmann !

For the future: Got some pics of the Me410 during the Gulf de Gascony War + BoN for you. Interested??

[A-E-Hartmann]

Le 24/05/2022 à 17:30, Hien-0_1* a dit :

Merci beaucoup  ?

Salut AE-Hartmann !

Pour le futur : J'ai quelques photos du Me410 pendant la guerre du Golfe de Gascogne + BoN pour vous. Intéressé ??

Good evening , Thank you, yes I am interested. I have already started Ju88C-6 on the same front. For the 410 I can't wait for it to be released so I can make skins.