Yak 9T Video

[PatrickAWlson]

Interesting video on the Yak 9T.  Youi can actually skip to the last 5 minutes, as most of the rest is intro matgerial.

 

 

[Asgar]

Watched that yesterday and found it very interesting!

[Skycat1969]

Thank you for posting this. I watched the end first and then went back and watched the entire video.

[Trooper117]

Interesting stuff...

[PatrickAWlson]

It is interesting.  Good plane.  Good cannon.  Put good cannon in good plane.  Not good results because your odds of hitting anything with said cannon, before rattling your own plane to pieces, is not good.  OK, ship it guys.  I have not flown this in the game.  I wonder if the recoil effects are modeled.

[Dragon1-1]

Yeah, I think I'm gonna treat myself to a Yak-9T on the next sale.  Funnily enough, it's not actually that hard to land a hit on a tank with gun-armed fighters in Il-2. Sure, it's not something you want to rely on, strategically speaking, but with proper training (not that there was much time for that on during WWII), they could've improved their hit numbers a lot, I feel. Then again, if anything, it was better as a bomber killer. Why strafe tanks when you can just bomb them, anyway? 

[Asgar]

16 minutes ago, Dragon1-1 said:

Yeah, I think I'm gonna treat myself to a Yak-9T on the next sale.  Funnily enough, it's not actually that hard to land a hit on a tank with gun-armed fighters in Il-2. Sure, it's not something you want to rely on, strategically speaking, but with proper training (not that there was much time for that on during WWII), they could've improved their hit numbers a lot, I feel. Then again, if anything, it was better as a bomber killer. Why strafe tanks when you can just bomb them, anyway? 

It's a fun plane, i enjoy flying it from time to time. in CAS and fighter role

 

53 minutes ago, PatrickAWlson said:

It is interesting.  Good plane.  Good cannon.  Put good cannon in good plane.  Not good results because your odds of hitting anything with said cannon, before rattling your own plane to pieces, is not good.  OK, ship it guys.  I have not flown this in the game.  I wonder if the recoil effects are modeled.

It has a good kick to it i think, but you don't get any damage from staying on the trigger  

[Dragon1-1]

With 30 rounds, it's not like you can "stay" on it, exactly.  Besides, given where the gun is located, any damage would be cumulative metal fatigue, not acute like what you'd get from the muzzle blast. Also, you should slow down noticeably when holding down the trigger.

[PatrickAWlson]

1 hour ago, Dragon1-1 said:

With 30 rounds, it's not like you can "stay" on it, exactly.  Besides, given where the gun is located, any damage would be cumulative metal fatigue, not acute like what you'd get from the muzzle blast. Also, you should slow down noticeably when holding down the trigger.

 

What the video said was that the vibration from staying on the trigger was such that accuracy was ruined - so I overstated my case by a bit.  I think I had a MiG-27 video on the brain where the gun really did sometimes bring down the plane.

 

[Dragon1-1]

Not bring down, maybe, but it caused the whole front panel to detach from its housing and fall onto the pilot's lap. Must've been fun flying that one home... I think that as far as vibration goes, this is just something that's pretty hard to model in the sim. The gun and the plane might be fine, but when you knock the pilot around like that, it's hard for him to hold the stick steady. The vibration will transfer through the whole airframe, and both stick and pedals will bounce around. I doubt even the biggest bass shaker can approximate the actual physiological effect of firing a gun like that. Short bursts can mitigate it, since the first few rounds will be fired before the plane can react to the oscillation on the controls.

Edited May 2, 2022 by Dragon1-1

[BlitzPig_EL]

I just treat it like a single shot.

[oc2209]

8 hours ago, PatrickAWlson said:

It is interesting.  Good plane.  Good cannon.  Put good cannon in good plane.  Not good results because your odds of hitting anything with said cannon, before rattling your own plane to pieces, is not good.  OK, ship it guys.  I have not flown this in the game.  I wonder if the recoil effects are modeled.

 

Short answer: no, recoil is not modelled. Not as strongly as testing accounts would indicate, at least.

 

According to a giant Yak book I have, which is written (in English) by Russians, with data from WWII Russian documents, the Yak-9T's gun could only be fired in 2 round bursts comfortably. 3 rounds was listed as the upper limit.

 

Firing was said to have dropped the nose sharply enough to take the aim off the target. Little indication of that in the sim.

 

Also, the greater the airspeed, the less effect of recoil. I fired at around 250 MPH in the following example:

 

Spoiler

 

 

And here's me firing in long bursts (much longer than I normally would) against an actual target, to test for accuracy:

 

Spoiler

 

 

Kind of sad that the Ju-88 didn't die more catastrophically from 7-10 hits.

[oc2209]

I fired the 37mm at 155 MPH and with flaps down at about 110 MPH; no discernible recoil.

 

So, unlike in real life (or reports thereof), there's little/no recoil even at very low speed in the sim. At least, it's not strong enough to really notice in the cockpit.

[PatrickAWlson]

16 hours ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

I just treat it like a single shot.

 

I am guessing that's the way real pilots treated it as well.  

[SCG_motoadve]

6 hours ago, oc2209 said:

I fired the 37mm at 155 MPH and with flaps down at about 110 MPH; no discernible recoil.

 

So, unlike in real life (or reports thereof), there's little/no recoil even at very low speed in the sim. At least, it's not strong enough to really notice in the cockpit.

There were instructions to the pilot to not fire the cannon at speeds below 300 KPH, in case the strong recoil will make the plane stall, so yes your test shows its inaccurate.

[Cynic_Al]

13 hours ago, oc2209 said:

Short answer: no, recoil is not modelled. Not as strongly as testing accounts would indicate, at least.

 

Perhaps the devs just decided to rubber-mount the cannon.

[Dragon1-1]

It's not about vibration, but recoil. No matter how flexible the mount is, the plane is still going to physically slow down. DCS has it implemented, which is especially notable in something like the A-10, where firing the gun will knock a few knots off your calendar airspeed meter.  Firing the GAU-8 near stall speed is not recommended either, to say the least.

 

The problem with firing the Yak-9T's cannon at low speed is the fact the the gun will slow it down, potentially to the point of stalling it. The gun tries to push the plane backwards, fighting the engine that pushes it forwards, and in a Yak-9T, the gun wins, and by a considerable margin, too. This should be a thing on most aircraft to some extent, particularly with 30mm cannons, but most others aren't quite that powerful (and those that are are mounted on twin-engine airframes, which are heavier and have more thrust).

Edited May 3, 2022 by Dragon1-1

[Cpt_Siddy]

So you saw me shoot someone down, and you think you counted the shots and doing head-on in your shiny 190... but was is really 30 shots or  was it 29? Well, do you feel lucky, punk?

[katdog5]

so cool!

[Zeev]

Indeed interesting video. Subscribed to the channel.