revising AI gunners again?

[6./ZG26_Custard]

1 hour ago, VBF-12_KW said:

If the AI gunners are so bad (and I’m not saying they aren’t bad), it should be fairly straight-forward to demonstrate by using a human gunner.

We don't expect or want super gunners. What is currently being experienced is what appears to be complete lack of  "workable" ai gunners online . They fire everywhere but at the target. They do not always warn of incoming enemy fighters, they leave their station during combat and fighters can just stroll up behind without a care in the world because there is zero threat. It's almost impossible to simulate 30 to 40 bombers flying with human pilots and gunners online it's just not going to happen. What would be nice is that gunners would at least be of some use, because currently they are nothing more than dead weight. 

[6./ZG26_Loke]

2 hours ago, VBF-12_KW said:

If the goal is to fly unescorted bombers against heavily armed late war fighters, i doubt you will get much “joy” from the game no matter what is changed.  That was a formula for disaster in real life - should we expect it to be any different here?  
 

During 1943, two USAAF bomber groups in the CBI were using B-24s to carry out unescorted strikes against Japanese targets.  Their opponents were flying Ki-43-IIs armed with 2 x 12.7mm hmg’s.  And even in that matchup that seems to favor the bombers so heavily, it was quickly found that escort was needed - the Ki-43’s shot down around 30 B-24’s vs about 20 losses of their own.  None of our bombers in game even come close to the armament and durability of a B-24.

 

If the AI gunners are so bad (and I’m not saying they aren’t bad), it should be fairly straight-forward to demonstrate by using a human gunner.  But even if the gunners were performing equal to a human, I don’t think that’s going to make small formations of light and medium bombers viable against late war fighters.

 

 

First of all. This is a game and not real live, can't even call it a simulator. 

As being without escort, that is what the only option we have on MP servers, as all fighter jockeys is busy running around on their own. When they are not even giving a **** about taxiways and runways, why should they give a **** about bomber? 

Before we had a survival ratio on 50/50 still without escort, now it is nill. 

 

In real life you would not fly only 2 or 3 bombers, but more like 100 - 200, against maybe 6 fighters. Hardly possible in this game. 

 

And that is why the attack and bombers should be made more deadly, and much harder to down. Simply to represent more aircraft in one. 

[JG4_Moltke1871]

In fact the condition of the gunners makes the game broken right now. Even the lowest level AI in single player or coop mode can parking his gun platform behind the bomber… In my last multiplayer match I was attacked in my Heinkel H16 three times by the same player without my opponent having bothered to skilfully attack me, my gunners fire like hell but in the mission log I saw he not get a single scratch!! finally he fly in front of me shaking slowly his ass while my gunner shaking his gun but don’t think about to make a single shot with his 20mm Gun.?

I unterstand the developers are under pressure because the release of BoN and FC2 but the seriousness of this problem necessitates an emergency repair because it have an badly impact in Multiplayer- Coop- and Single player mode. It is not a development process or an experiment but a damage in the game at all.

I hope the busy developers find time and attention for this bad situation ?

Edited May 1, 2022 by JG4_Moltke1871

[Stonehouse]

Only posting in case it helps someone and not disagreeing with anyone's opinions. While it doesn't really help on public servers it may help people doing SP or coop until the devs get to investigating the issue.

 

I wondered if the BlindGunners mod by rieper_420 has been tried?

 

It does some value changes to turretcontrollerai.txt to change the AI turret gunnery. If you don't like the experience the mod gives you out of the box you can always modify the values yourself until you get the AI gunner settings you feel are right.

 

It's currently not updated to the last patch but I assume rieper_420 will do so soon. I can provide a custom version which I have updated in the interim in case it helps out and I'll just remove it once reiper_420 does the update. JSGME ready. If you want to tweak values you edit turretcontrollerai_blind.txt. There is a explanation of the important values as currently understood in turretcontrolleraiexplained.txt. The one attached covers both WW1 and WW2. Pretty much it is all about aiming error as impacted by G loading on the gunner and difference in relative velocity between gunner and target plus skill. The formula is in the text file. Nothing has changed from what the devs set up for how the error is calculated, just adjustments to the constant coefficients. eg default aiming error rate was 0.05 modded in the version below to 0.075.

 

I can upload an excel spreadsheet I built to help adjust values and see the impact on aiming error if that makes anyone's life easier 

 

Anyway hope it helps someone until things get sorted.

BlindGunners.7zip

Edited May 2, 2022 by Stonehouse