Better 3d in VR - Greater Depth!

[dburne]

Ok so this was posted over on the DCS forums but I am going to link it here as it is not a DCS specific setting. It requires the latest version of Nvidia Profile Inspector to gain access to these custom settings. It is not really a Mod per se as it changes no game files and is universal, just tweaks to the Nvidia Graphics settings. I have tried it so far in DCS and wow what a nice improvement to the VR experience. This should improve the overall VR experience in any of your VR games. Note this was not my doing just passing along some good information. 

 

https://forum.dcs.world/topic/298226-mod-better-3d-in-vr-greater-depth/

 

 

 

Alternatively:

 

 

Edited April 10, 2022 by dburne

[Hoots]

At the risk of asking the impossible… what does it do?

 

[dburne]

1 hour ago, Hoots said:

At the risk of asking the impossible… what does it do?

 

 

Best I can tell is it increases the VR depth perception.

[firdimigdi]

I had tried that sometime ago that it was brought up in this forum and didn't see any difference. But then again I have absolutely no problem with the depth in VR, everything looks as 3D as it gets. YMMV, it's easy enough to revert.

 

Some research I did at the time showed that this "VRdirectx" mentioned is a 3D glasses (the blue/red lens type) profile for an old game called "Virtua Rally" - the "directx" is because its executable was named VRdirectx.exe since it had another one named VRvoodoo.exe to run it on 3DFX voodoo GPUs (yes, that old).

Edited April 10, 2022 by Firdimigdi

[Dagwoodyt]

Few things on the net are really "free". Can the app be uninstalled thru the Windows uninstaller? It seems to make changes via the registry.

[dburne]

Well I can say this has made a fair difference for me. Not huge, and not small, just enough to say wow this is even better than what I had. Especially when flying over hills and valley and looking at the trees - just seems there is more depth to them now and it is pleasant to see. 

 

 

8 minutes ago, Dagwoodyt said:

Few things on the net are really "free". Can the app be uninstalled thru the Windows uninstaller? It seems to make changes via the registry.

 

Nvidia Profile Inspector is a free program and does not use an installation routine therefore there is no uninstall routine. All it does is expose more graphics tweaks for the Nvidia GPU than the standard Nvidia Control Panel gives access to.  Nvidia Profile Inspector has been around quite a long time. Can't remember why but I used to use it a lot back in my 2d gaming days. One can easily reset things back to default, or just apply the changes to a game profile leaving global settings as they are. 

I like having per game profiles so I am setting mine up now on a per game basis. 

Edited April 10, 2022 by dburne

[T24_Martin]

Thank you so much! Very big difference, like VR for the first time

[dburne]

8 minutes ago, T24_Martin said:

Thank you so much! Very big difference, like VR for the first time

 

[[CPT]Crunch]

Er, that's been posted here since January, nothing new.  Look on the second to last page on the pinned thread "VR tips and tricks - Improving your VR experience!".

Where do think they got it from?

[dburne]

36 minutes ago, [CPT]Crunch said:

Er, that's been posted here since January, nothing new.  Look on the second to last page on the pinned thread "VR tips and tricks - Improving your VR experience!".

Where do think they got it from?

 

Well sorry guess I forgot to search through several months of posts, and no I ain't gonna start now.

Please forgive me, feel free to delete the thread.

 

I apparently never saw it, maybe some others did not either?

Edited April 11, 2022 by dburne

[TheSNAFU]

6 minutes ago, dburne said:

 

Well sorry guess I forgot to search through several months of posts, and no I ain't gonna start now.

Please forgive me, feel free to delete the thread.

 

I apparently never saw it, maybe some others did not either?

Well I for one hadn’t seen this and plan to give it a try tomorrow. I found this thread useful and helpful.  Thanks dburne! 

[javelina]

44 minutes ago, [CPT]Crunch said:

Er, that's been posted here since January, nothing new.  Look on the second to last page on the pinned thread "VR tips and tricks - Improving your VR experience!".

Where do think they got it from?

your verdict?

[dburne]

2 minutes ago, TheSNAFU said:

Well I for one hadn’t seen this and plan to give it a try tomorrow. I found this thread useful and helpful.  Thanks dburne! 

 

You are most welcome. Some subjects are probably deserving of their own threads to keep this sort of thing from happening, rather than being buried in a condensed collect all type of thread that spans many pages. Yes that info was posted by CPT Crunch a few months ago, but again it got kind of buried in there and forgotten due to the thread covering so many different things. I know I never saw it and am sure there are others that did not either.

[javelina]

2 minutes ago, dburne said:

 

You are most welcome. Some subjects are probably deserving of their own threads to keep this sort of thing from happening, rather than being buried in a condensed collect all type of thread that spans many pages. Yes that info was posted by CPT Crunch a few months ago, but again it got kind of buried in there and forgotten due to the thread covering so many different things. I know I never saw it and am sure there are others that did not either.

I would agree, hard to sort through all of the info being posted.  Props to the CPT.

[Drum]

Thanks Cpt.Crunch and dburne, I just tried this out and it really works.  Like one of the comments stated, the bubble on a level gauge is clearly 3D now, well I see it in the clouds, mountains and ocean swells, noticeable improvement guys, thanks.

 

His video doesn't show the popups or what he selects from them, so one really need to pay attention to what he's doing.

Edited April 11, 2022 by Drum

[Dagwoodyt]

Anyone using NPI with an Index?

[[CPT]Crunch]

My verdict is never leave home without it.  Easier navigation, my gawd look at those forests and cities now, and the formation flying, get in tight, the gunnery is to die for.  Doesn't hurt to be able to identify specific sub types being able to see all those bumps, bulges, and antenna type stuff hanging off when really close up easier.  But you do need some good resolution.  Even at distance what was once a gray bland shape identifiable as a plane can sometimes shadows effects giving you better readings of angles and energy.  I find it easier to see colors on a 3D shape also further out.

 

Basically a very good VR upgrade and it don't cost you a thing.

And no, don't delete your thread, more guys need to benefit and up their game.  Unfortunately it isn't universal, nyet for AMD, and seems certain NVIDIA cards maybe can't support it according to some, don't know.

 

Just say'n "We was first" on this forum, in this game!

Edited April 11, 2022 by [CPT]Crunch

[firdimigdi]

So, had another go at this - this is my base profile:

 

This is with a G2 on a 3080TI with 511.79 running at 2912x2844 (not that it should make any difference since the above profile settings are for the redundant 3D vision mode, which last driver to support them was 425.31).

 

Btw I think it can be repeated: this is the game the VRdirectx profile is made for (V-Rally). Back in 1999 was the changing point between 3DFX Voodoo and (the then new) DirectX so several games had multiple executables, in this case the game (V-Rally) happens to have the initials VR and it's directx-enable executable was VRdirectx.exe - it also has another one for running on 3DFX cards called VRvoodoo.exe . The fact that 22 years later we finally have VR and are still using DirectX is quite an interesting coincidence but I cannot understand how this was selected/found in the first place to be relevant apart from the "interesting name" and the category "stereo" all of which are from redundant left overs in the drivers for an abandoned tech for a rather old game that had nothing to do with VR apart from share the same initials.

 

Reading through the thread posted by dburne above:

 

This is absolutely wrong - that's not how the profiles or nVidia Profile inspector works. They have to be associated with an executable if you are not changing the global profile. Pressing "apply" does not "apply" anything, it just saves the changes made to the profile (see: revant nvidia profile inspector source code), if they have an executable associated then the GPU driver will load them when the executable starts. This is done by pressing this button:

Reading the rest of that thread leads me to the conclusion that people (including the original poster of that thread) have been pressing "apply" to a GPU driver profile that is not associated in any way with either the DCS or the IL-2 executable and is thus not activated at all. In fact there is one guy in the thread sharing his profile called "3DVR" which I downloaded and see this in the file:

See how "Executables" is blank and contains no references? This is a dud profile, it will never be activated. And yet people in that thread download it and say "wow! it works" ... (this is exactly what the second video does btw - he is simply saving the "VRdirectx.exe"-associated profile and nothing more) so how is it working if is never activated? What magic is this?

 

So - all the above said and in the spirit of curiosity as I'm all for anything that might enhance the game: exactly what am I suppose to look for in the game with these enabled? As I see absolutely no difference between having these settings above and not, it always looks perfectly 3D to me - to test I used the same recorded track so lighting conditions and shadows were always the same.

 

Edited April 11, 2022 by Firdimigdi

[56RAF_Roblex]

As Firdimigdi says,  this only applies to people using a very out of date driver which I seriously doubt anyone still has unless they are using a 20 year old PC that has never been updated ?

[dburne]

Hmm well we know Global Settings will apply even though no game executable is assigned to it. But a game profile will override global.  In any event yes I added the settings to my game profile and yes I see a difference, namely after I take off and start flying around. So far I have only done this with DCS as I am in the middle of an Apache learning process. The areas that appear to have more depth to them would be the trees, hills and valleys especially. I will be doing the same with my IL-2 profile and checking it out here soon. 

And no my PC is not 20 years old and I run the very latest drivers from Nvidia.

Everyone is free to try it out or not, and to make their own conclusions whether this improves their VR experience or not.

 

 

[firdimigdi]

12 minutes ago, dburne said:

Hmm well we know Global Settings will apply even though no game executable is assigned to it. But a game profile will override global. 

 

Which doesn't explain how people who are opening and using the unassigned profile, or using the second video method, say they are seeing a difference.

 

The second video is not doing a single thing apart from saving the profile that applies to VRdirectx.exe (V-Rally's executable).

 

Can you be a bit more specific about what to look for? Even in DCS.

 

Edited April 11, 2022 by Firdimigdi

[dburne]

8 minutes ago, Firdimigdi said:

 

Which doesn't explain how people who are opening and using the unassigned profile, or using the second video method, say they are seeing a difference.

 

The second video is not doing a single thing apart from saving the profile that applies to VRdirectx.exe (V-Rally's executable).

 

Can you be a bit more specific about what to look for? Even in DCS.

 

 

Not sure how much more specific I can be than what I already stated:

 

Quote

The areas that appear to have more depth to them would be the trees, hills and valleys especially.

 

[firdimigdi]

Does "more depth" mean higher contrast? They appear larger/different proportions? The distances between them appear different?

[dburne]

Just now, Firdimigdi said:

Does "more depth" mean higher contrast? They appear larger/different proportions? The distances between them appear different?

 

To my somewhat aging eyes, they just seem to have more of a 3d effect to them I would say. Kind of hard to describe really, no they are not really larger or smaller, and no I would not say the distance between them appears different. 

[Dagwoodyt]

Little on the net is really "free". Has anyone with an Index tried this "mod"? If it is only useful for those who are using WMR HMDs and the benefit is via testimonial only I am hesitant to download NPI.

[firdimigdi]

14 minutes ago, dburne said:

 

To my somewhat aging eyes, they just seem to have more of a 3d effect to them I would say. Kind of hard to describe really, no they are not really larger or smaller, and no I would not say the distance between them appears different. 

 

Gotcha. Btw, this is by no means a "no you are not seeing what you say you are seeing" deal. If you get an improvement from this, then power to you.

 

I am just not seeing any difference on my end whatsoever, didn't the first time this was brought up in January or so and don't now, regardless if I apply the settings mentioned to the global profile or the game profile, the game looks exactly the same to me with it on or off (not that it's a bad thing, the game is great looking as it is). Ah well.

 

EDIT

To be clear though: the instructions provided in the videos is complete horseshit, either creating a new profile without an association [first video] or just pressing "apply changes" on the vrdirectx.exe profile [second video] will do absolutely nothing unless an associated executable is ran - this is a fact; anyone who says that they see a difference just by doing those is experiencing placebo. To prove this, this is the relevant line of code from nvidia profile inspector's source code: https://github.com/Orbmu2k/nvidiaProfileInspector/blob/d4ce1c901840465d76f21b1855255b81f79e6992/nspector/frmDrvSettings.cs#L366 - that function is called, all the "apply changes" button does is save the profile.

 

Edited April 11, 2022 by Firdimigdi

[dburne]

4 minutes ago, Dagwoodyt said:

Little on the net is really "free". Has anyone with an Index tried this "mod"? If it is only useful for those who are using WMR HMDs and the benefit is via testimonial only I am hesitant to download NPI.

 

No WMR here I am using an Aero.

[Dallas88B]

Just for the hell of it... since I have zero VR experience....

my brother was a professional photographer. What he can see in a photo or video or film... quality, artefacts, contrast, lighting, shadows, colour imperfections and so on is amazing to me. I see a photo and think its really terrific and a second photo is just as good. He can point out all the bits I miss...I can see it when he explains ...but I cannot else wise. So I discovered just cause I dont see it dont mean its not there.

[Dagwoodyt]

5 minutes ago, dburne said:

 

No WMR here I am using an Aero.

Thanks. Unfortunately I don't have an Aero. Most responses seem to refer to the G2.

6 minutes ago, Dallas88B said:

Just for the hell of it... since I have zero VR experience....

my brother was a professional photographer. What he can see in a photo or video or film... quality, artefacts, contrast, lighting, shadows, colour imperfections and so on is amazing to me. I see a photo and think its really terrific and a second photo is just as good. He can point out all the bits I miss...I can see it when he explains ...but I cannot else wise. So I discovered just cause I dont see it dont mean its not there.

The problem here would be that I cannot use what I cannot "see".

[firdimigdi]

44 minutes ago, Dallas88B said:

So I discovered just cause I dont see it dont mean its not there.

 

Indeed - which is why, as a programmer, I referred to the source code of nvidia profile inspector and can tell you beyond any doubt that the people who use the two methods illustrated in the videos, or download the extra profile people provided in the DCS forum thread and think it works because they press "apply changes" are definitely not seeing something that is there; as simple as that.

 

Disclaimer: if they are however applying it via the global or the game profile and are perceiving a positive difference then good on them!

 

Edited April 11, 2022 by Firdimigdi
added disclaimer

[dburne]

It is really easy to test and see. For those interested just adjust profile for the game desired and give it a try , profile can always be reset back to defaults. For me initially after making the changes and being dropped into a cockpit I was like well I see no difference here, it was only after I had taken off and started flying around I was like oh yeah this is pretty nice.

[Drum]

He's saying it's placebo and we're just imagining the results, most likely he's right as he usually is with technical things like that.  ?

 

I'm no computer wiz, but everyone knows that already. I saw (imagined) an improved 3D image though, so if it's just placebo it's really good placebo and I would prescribe for more had it not strained my eyes like it did after an hours use.  In five years of VR, my eyes were never stressed like that so I uninstalled.

 

[Youtch]

8 minutes ago, Drum said:

not strained my eyes like it did after an hours use.  In five years of VR, my eyes were never stressed like that so I uninstalled.

Do you mean this nvidia setting modification in IL2 induced more stress on your eyes?

 

I remember testing it with the first thread, and thinking that the trees might look indeed somehow different but not being able to compare it back and forth. I ended removing it because i was under the impression it was introducing more ghosting when looking on the side of the cockpit.

[Drum]

Yes, I also lost between 3-6 FPS over my normal performance and when I viewed my film afterwards, there were steady micro studders watching them.  I had to restart the CPU, but they were smooth after that.  My system has never ever had studders, it's normally smooth with FPS between 85-90 steady as well.  Something was wrong with that whole experience.

[[CPT]Crunch]

Good way to compare is hop in a Macchi, check out the compass and the artificial horizon in action with and without.  If it's working for you, you should notice on these instruments.  That attitude indicator has got to be the finest and most complex flight instrument in the game, easiest one to fly blind through the clouds even hard maneuvering for combat while blind, not a problem.    

[dburne]

I will speak only to my experience. So far I have only tested it in DCS and I do not want my testing of these graphic settings to take away from my learning process in the Apache. I am quite sure I will see the same results in IL-2.

 

Firstly I did not have any luck seeing any difference. However upon further examination I realized I did not have all the 5 settings done correctly. So the second time I made sure they were done correctly, and saved it to a new profile named 3DVR. Now I had not at this point tied DCS into that profile. However - after making sure I had all the settings done correctly, I saw the difference and it was quite nice. No - I can not explain why this was the case, only that in my case I did see it then. And I can tell you there are others that did as well.

 

Lastly I have since added these extra graphics settings into my DCS Profile in Nvidia settings to be sure. And yes I still see the effect of the changes, and it is still quite nice. Best way I can describe it is a better overall 3d experience. There is just seemingly more depth to everything and it looks gorgeous,

 

No it is not an in your face oh wow look at this type of thing, yet it is not a so suttle thing that you might not notice it, it is kind of in between. I myself really did not notice it until after I had started the Apache up and started flying low over the terrain. It was then like wow this looks so much better. 

As far as performance, I noticed no gain nor loss in the fps department.

 

I will be doing the same for my IL-2 profile here soon and checking it out, it is just right now I am focused on my learning process of the Apache. I have no doubt I will see the same effect in IL-2.

I would encourage anyone that is curious to have a go with this. It is easy enough to set things back to default in Nvidia settings.  I am certainly glad I gave this a try. And it is not technically a Mod in my book as it changes nothing in the game files. I personally tend to stay away from Mods.

Edited April 11, 2022 by dburne

[dburne]

Ok so I just loaded up the same settings in my IL-2 Nvidia Profile. Same affect in IL-2. Ground vehicles, trees, buildings, etc just pop more. They have what I feel would be a more realistic 3d view of them over what I had before. Very pleased so far with these "tweaks". This was flying a low level CAP mission in my PWCG Spit Campaign in Bodenplatte. It was simply gorgeous.

Edited April 11, 2022 by dburne

[TheSNAFU]

I tried this today and I do see a difference. Things just look better and there seems to be some additional depth. One thing I found is the zoom in vr has somehow increased to where the field of view drops from 95 to 46 which didn’t happen before doing this. When looking out over the wings the  wings are noticeably shorter. Maybe something else got changed somehow but I don’t know how or if it’s related to these changes. 

[Drum]

Just logged off from playing another hour on CB and my eyes aren't feeling stressed at all now, but I noticed the bubble on the level gauge was flat looking again, no more 3D bubble.  The tree line no longer stands out from the ground either after uninstalling it.  The tree line just blends in with the ground and tree top colours with no separate, distinct edge again. 

 

The best way I can think to properly describe it's effects are to say it looks like a pancake on the floor, the edge has a clear vertical banding that is different in colour then the ground and forest top, a shaded edge.

 

It's only doing something with the edges IMO and not to the rest of the image.  Possibly a lighting effect?  But as Firdimigdi states, nothing is being loaded at all.  If he's getting good 3D lighting effects already, he wouldn't see a change with an object's edge like we have, right?  I'm also using MSAAx2 incase that makes a difference...

 

[BBAS_Tiki_Joe]

Tried this out and it looks fantastic, subtle but fantastic. It really gives things more of a Pop. I especially noticed it in FC looking out over No Mans Land, I never even noticed that the ground wasn't completely flat I could see well defined hills from afar. I also noticed that building look better, like they are contrasted a bit more from the background. Glade I tried this out, I'm loving it.