Bristol and Breguet in multiplayer from a new FC player

[Krab]

I picked up FC a couple of weeks ago and followed up with FC 2 last week. Every sim I've had there have always been one or two planes that stand out for me. Usually they're in the fighter bomber or light bomber categories (or an OV-10A in FSX), so the Bristol and Breguet make sense. I really enjoy blowing stuff up, and these two do it very well. 

 

I like the Halberstadt as well, but it's a bit too slow. Tried one mission in PWCG with one. Took me forever to reach mid mud with my wingman and one Albatros escort. Promptly bounced by 3 Camels and was forced down within 5 minutes. Dead wingman and escort. Pretty much gave on it then since I believe that's the only aircraft that gets attack missions in PWCG. 

 

I've been learning these aircraft using SYN_Vander's excellent mission generator, which beats the hell out of the game's Quick Mission option. Level bombing has been challenging mostly because I'm still learning the map and working on my visual spotting skills. At some point I'll put on my big boy pants and try multiplayer, but before I do, I'd like to know how players use these online. Do you level or dive bomb? I can see level bombing a factory or an ammo dump in a Breguet, but for smaller targets like bridges, barges, artillery, etc. isn't it just easier to dive bomb? If you do go with the dive bombing approach, how do you traverse the mud and hostile territory -- at 5 feet off the ground or do you go way up to avoid the flak? Finally, how receptive are fighter pilots on your side to providing top cover when there are a lot of opponents online? Thanks. 

 

[=IRFC=kotori87]

The Bristol is a Fighter. Not a scout, not a bomber, but a Fighter with a Capital F. It's even in the name. In the hands of an experienced pilot, it can go toe-to-toe with any single-seat fighter and has good odds of coming out on top. It is ALSO highly effective at ground attack with over-wing guns and bombs. We routinely use them in low-altitude, NOE attacks behind German lines. They hit tanks, trenches, artillery, trains, etc. They are fast and very difficult to intercept. They also perform well in escort/decoy roles. A group of BrisFits is basically its own escort. It cannot level-bomb though, since its bomb sight only has settings for 15,000ft and 17,000 feet, far above normal combat altitudes in multiplayer.

 

The Halberstat CL.II is also a fighter. Even the 200HP variant is a little slow and underpowered when compared to Entente two-seaters, but as long as it has altitude to play with the Halberstat can do quite well for itself. In MP, it is the preferred two-seater for most two-seater missions thanks to its good all-around view, good firepower, and maneuverability. Some of the more experienced pilots bring along the Becker 20mm cannon on the back. The Becker only gets 60 rounds of ammo, and AI gunners tend to waste it by missing, so the guys who take Beckers will actually fly from the back seat, one hand on the joystick and the other hand on the mouse. It only takes one HE hit to destroy a single-seat scout, although two-seaters may survive the first hit. They also have a very tight turn, which can turn the tables on unsuspecting fighter pilots. It's not a great sustained turn because you lose energy quickly, but a good shot can get guns on target quickly and get a kill.

 

The Breguet is a bomber. It's not as fast as a stripped-down Bristol or DH4, but it has a nice big bomb payload and a powerful engine that allows you to climb up to level-bombing altitudes faster than other Entente two-seaters. I don't fly it that often, though. The French bombs don't have as much punch as their weight would suggest. They regularly take more hits to destroy a given target than an equivalent German or British bomb would. The plane also doesn't have wind compensation in the bomb sight, requiring you to convert wind speed (m/s) to airspeed (km/h) and either add or subtract it to your actual airspeed to hit a target. While this is doable, it can be difficult when you're also holding formation, navigating, worrying about that fokker who's setting up an attack, etc. The Breguet's bomb sight controls are fairly coarse. I often find myself unable to properly input airspeed and altitude, because the bomb sight inputs lack the precision. Instead, I have to throttle down to the nearest increment of 10km/h, and descend to the nearest altitude increment, then hope everything steadies out before it's time to drop. It's not all bad news, though. The Breguet comes stock with a twin gun for the 2nd seat, and it has by far the most ammunition and the widest field of fire of any two-seater in the game. It is fairly tough, but can become unstable as damage accumulates. Break an elevator cable or take a pilot injury, and the plane is basically uncontrollable.

 

If you haven't tried it yet, take a look at the DH4. This is my preferred platform for precision altitude bombing. It climbs better with a full bomb load than the BrisFit, almost as good as the Breguet. It is faster at high altitudes than other two-seaters with payloads. And the bomb sight is better than either the Brisfit or the Baguette. It has better resolution and it has a wind compensation setting. It also does well in the various ground-attack roles, and handles itself decently in a fight. Pilot visibility upwards is limited by the upper wing, but all other directions are very good.

 

The DFW is... a strange bird. It would be very good at altitude, if it had some way of reducing airflow over the massive radiator. As it is, the engine overcools at recon altitudes, and great care must be taken to prevent engine damage when descending from altitude. It is difficult to do ground attack due to the awful forward view. Can't glide-bomb, can't strafe, etc. I have seen some very effective level-bombing attacks at around 2km altitude. all of the German bombers have superb bomb sights. Put a few of these in close formation at altitude, and they'll do some serious damage.

 

I think it's worth mentioning that most big bombing missions are one-way trips. Either we get intercepted and everybody dies, or we succeed and roll the map. Smaller low-altitude raids are more likely to avoid enemy fighters, but may take losses to ground fire.

 

Hope this helps!

[Zooropa_Fly]

The Bristol is by some distance the most agile and powerful 2 seater in the game.

It can indeed be flown as a fighter and trouble most German planes in that regard - but be careful around Dr1's and VIIf's.

In RoF I used to be able to scissors (gaining alt) and pop the enemy right in front of the gunner, not quite so effective in FC I feel..

The Breg's slightly tougher, but not much of a fighter.

 

Level bombing takes a fair bit of practice, thus traditionally not many do it !

I'd simply 'go with' whatever you feel most inclined to do re. tactics.

Personally I like dive bombing - the Bristol has a good payload, and when you've dropped it you can join a fight and be a menace.

Plus it's a bit more exciting !

 

S!

[SYN_Vander]

Most people will do dive-bombing in MP, because it is most accurate and easiest to learn. However, AAA can be deadly and enemy fighters will be able to jump you. If you learn how to properly level-bomb you will have a much better chance of survival, especially now we have great clouds that you can use for cover.

 

As already mentioned it is harder to master though and with these old crates you usually have to fly either directly into/from the wind as the bomb sights are not very sophisticated. But if you actually hit something it feels very good! I will need to learn this again myself.

The Breguet, DH4, DWF CV and of course HP /400 and Gotha were typically used as level bomber in WW1. If you fly a HP or Gotha this is basically your only option otherwise your flight will be a one-way trip...

 

As already mentioned above the Bristol is actually a fighter, but can also be used for ground attack. The Halberstadt is designed as heavy escort fighter and ground attack aircraft. These you would typically use for low level ground (dive) attacks as they give you a chance to fight your way back. Of course they would be employed in flights, not individually as you often see online.

Edited April 4, 2022 by SYN_Vander

[RNAS10_Oliver]

7 hours ago, kotori87 said:

The Bristol is a Fighter. Not a scout, not a bomber, but a Fighter with a Capital F. It's even in the name. In the hands of an experienced pilot, it can go toe-to-toe with any single-seat fighter and has good odds of coming out on top. It is ALSO highly effective at ground attack with over-wing guns and bombs. We routinely use them in low-altitude, NOE attacks behind German lines. They hit tanks, trenches, artillery, trains, etc. They are fast and very difficult to intercept. They also perform well in escort/decoy roles. A group of BrisFits is basically its own escort. It cannot level-bomb though, since its bomb sight only has settings for 15,000ft and 17,000 feet, far above normal combat altitudes in multiplayer.

Correction to the above. The bombsight on the Bristol is restricted to 10,000 feet or 15,000 feet. And two airspeed settings that I cannot remember at the moment.

 

Although level bombing in her is possible she’s the worst Entente choice for two reasons IMHO. The first being that she seems to have a poorer climb rate than others when loaded with bombs so combined with that restricted bombsight it means your needing to spend much longer climbing to altitude than the other types. The second being that it’s common in our bombsights to put in false settings to give yourself a better view ahead while on your approach. This is something the Bristol cannot do! So it’s rather hard to ensure your lined up on your target during your approach.

 

I also rate the DH4 very much. It’s view upwards being it’s sole disadvantage IMHO.

Edited April 4, 2022 by RNAS10_Oliver

[Krab]

Thank you to all for your very informative and helpful responses. Copied into a text document for future reference.

 

I'll certainly check out the DH4 as well. Some of you made some excellent points regarding armament and of course the bombsights. I constantly have to slew the Breguet's Altitude setting back to 0m in order to get precisely lined up on the target. Even from 2000m it was difficult to get lined up in time, although part of the problem is definitely operator error. I just realized that I haven't tried to bomb with significant amounts of crosswind, so that's another headache to anticipate. 

 

What kind of loadouts and gun set-ups do you use for Bristols when going after ground targets? I know its bombs are surprisingly good, but I'm not so sure about guns and their added weight. 

 

One last question. I got onto Flugpark late one night to get a feel for its set-up. No problem taking out a barge with a Breguet (dive bombing), but then I decided to take the Bristol out for a shot against "enemy trenches." I went to location marked on the map between Lens and Oppy and couldn't find anything. Circled and searched for several minutes until I was eventually shot up and chased away by a Dr I (nursed it all the way back to home base only to crash on final approach, what a doofus!). What kind of targets/objects should I have seen or been looking for? Didn't see any artillery, tanks, etc.  

 

Hope to see you all in the air when I suck less. Thanks again. 

 

S!

 

 

[No.23_Triggers]

1 hour ago, Krab said:

Hope to see you all in the air when I suck less. Thanks again. 

 

A word to the wise on this point - as a newcomer to FC Multiplayer...expect to get shot down again, and again, and again, and again, before you start seeing any consistent success...the virtual skies of J5 Flugpark are filled with many, many RoF veterans with years of WW1 experience, most of which can pick off "newbies" with ruthless efficiency.

Fortunately, most of the same experienced guys are more than happy to offer pointers and advice to newcomers - the various Squadrons of FC are usually happy to help, and I'm sure if you express interest one of the squadrons would be more than happy to have you along to a training night to show you the ropes. If you haven't joined already, Jasta 5's Discord server serves as a community hub for FC pilots, and has a Q+A section for newcomers: 

https://discord.gg/fS3MwYMXtM

It might be a little hard not to become discouraged in multiplayer at first, but once you find your feet you'll be having tons of fun! 

[=IRFC=Gascan]

I can't agree with Larner more: there are many players willing to help on the FlugPark discord. That's also a good place to find players to wing up with, especially on the busier days like Thursday evening and Sunday afternoon (US time). Hop on and say hi. Even if nobody is in voice chat at the moment, there's always a chance someone may decide to join you if you're flying.

The trench target consists of 4 machine guns in sandbag emplacements along the front lines. They will fire into the air and along the front, so you should see the tracers from a distance. They can be strafed or bombed. If strafing, a hit will scare the gunner away, but the target isn't destroyed until the machine gun blows up and leaves a small black pile of rubble in the sandbags.

The tanks are similar to the machine guns: there are four of them, and they are near the front lines, firing machine guns into the air and along the front so you can spot them. It is technically possible to strafe them (a bullet hit to the view port can do a few percent damage), it takes a lot of bullets and really good accuracy, so bombing is preferred. A direct hit with the smallest bombs (20lb or 12.5kg) can destroy the tank, or a very close near miss with the bigger 112lb/50kg bombs.

The Observation Post must be bombed. Two direct hits on the tower with small bombs or one direct hit with a big bomb will do the trick. It is usually defended by an AI, so keep your eyes open.

The artillery can be bombed or strafed, just like the trenches. Hitting the gun causes the crew to run away for a bit, but you need a few more hits to blow up the gun. They are usually defended by an AI.

The AA barge can bombed or strafed. It has a machine gun and a flak gun. If you cause enough damage to blow up both guns, the barge will sink, but the AA is pretty dangerous so I prefer to use bombs. I think there is an AI defending it as well.

The balloon can be bombed or strafed, but mid-air bombing is both difficult and dangerous as the bomb will instantly detonate, and even a 20lb bomb can cause damage and pilot injury if you're still close by. I recommend machine guns or the SPAD 7's rockets (those require some practice, though). The balloon will be hauled down when they see you getting close, and there is some nasty AA down there as well as an AI that will spawn to defend the balloon. Balloons are scored as aerial victories, equivalent to shooting down an enemy plane, since that is how they were scored historically (and they eat a lot of bullets).

Once the target disappears from the map you have successfully destroyed it. You can also attempt the photo recon. There is a description of how to perform the photo recon in the mission description. Basically, take the photo recon plane and fly to the photo objective. When you're between the max and min height, fly over the objective (a road junction, a bridge, a fort, a city, something like that). On-screen prompts will tell you when you enter the area and exit the area. Do that four times, and it will say you've got enough. Head home to any active airfield (it doesn't have to be your home field) and land to deliver the photos. If you want credit on the parser, there is a disc that appears inside the hanger closest to the windsock that you can blow up, but that's only for scoring not the mission triggers.

[Krab]

1 hour ago, US103_Larner said:

A word to the wise on this point - as a newcomer to FC Multiplayer...expect to get shot down again, and again, and again, and again, before you start seeing any consistent success...the virtual skies of J5 Flugpark are filled with many, many RoF veterans with years of WW1 experience, most of which can pick off "newbies" with ruthless efficiency.

Fortunately, most of the same experienced guys are more than happy to offer pointers and advice to newcomers - the various Squadrons of FC are usually happy to help, and I'm sure if you express interest one of the squadrons would be more than happy to have you along to a training night to show you the ropes. If you haven't joined already, Jasta 5's Discord server serves as a community hub for FC pilots, and has a Q+A section for newcomers: 

https://discord.gg/fS3MwYMXtM

It might be a little hard not to become discouraged in multiplayer at first, but once you find your feet you'll be having tons of fun! 

 

Very wise, Larner. I've checked out both Jasta 5's and your squadron's Discord channels. I also watched a bit of Baer's livestream last week. You guys are brutally efficient and well organized, as I'm sure the other vets are. I have zero expectations for MP servers at this point. I read poppycock's recent thread, and I'm sure I'd experience even worse at this point. Best hope would be to sneak in, get a few bombs on target, and sneak out. Dogfighting's a whole 'nuther world to me. I barely handle Veteran AI let alone competent humans, and I'm at a complete loss when it comes to fighting in your plane of choice. 

 

1 hour ago, gascan said:

I can't agree with Larner more: there are many players willing to help on the FlugPark discord. That's also a good place to find players to wing up with, especially on the busier days like Thursday evening and Sunday afternoon (US time). Hop on and say hi. Even if nobody is in voice chat at the moment, there's always a chance someone may decide to join you if you're flying.

The trench target consists of 4 machine guns in sandbag emplacements along the front lines. They will fire into the air and along the front, so you should see the tracers from a distance. They can be strafed or bombed. If strafing, a hit will scare the gunner away, but the target isn't destroyed until the machine gun blows up and leaves a small black pile of rubble in the sandbags.

The tanks are similar to the machine guns: there are four of them, and they are near the front lines, firing machine guns into the air and along the front so you can spot them. It is technically possible to strafe them (a bullet hit to the view port can do a few percent damage), it takes a lot of bullets and really good accuracy, so bombing is preferred. A direct hit with the smallest bombs (20lb or 12.5kg) can destroy the tank, or a very close near miss with the bigger 112lb/50kg bombs.

The Observation Post must be bombed. Two direct hits on the tower with small bombs or one direct hit with a big bomb will do the trick. It is usually defended by an AI, so keep your eyes open.

The artillery can be bombed or strafed, just like the trenches. Hitting the gun causes the crew to run away for a bit, but you need a few more hits to blow up the gun. They are usually defended by an AI.

The AA barge can bombed or strafed. It has a machine gun and a flak gun. If you cause enough damage to blow up both guns, the barge will sink, but the AA is pretty dangerous so I prefer to use bombs. I think there is an AI defending it as well.

The balloon can be bombed or strafed, but mid-air bombing is both difficult and dangerous as the bomb will instantly detonate, and even a 20lb bomb can cause damage and pilot injury if you're still close by. I recommend machine guns or the SPAD 7's rockets (those require some practice, though). The balloon will be hauled down when they see you getting close, and there is some nasty AA down there as well as an AI that will spawn to defend the balloon. Balloons are scored as aerial victories, equivalent to shooting down an enemy plane, since that is how they were scored historically (and they eat a lot of bullets).

Once the target disappears from the map you have successfully destroyed it. You can also attempt the photo recon. There is a description of how to perform the photo recon in the mission description. Basically, take the photo recon plane and fly to the photo objective. When you're between the max and min height, fly over the objective (a road junction, a bridge, a fort, a city, something like that). On-screen prompts will tell you when you enter the area and exit the area. Do that four times, and it will say you've got enough. Head home to any active airfield (it doesn't have to be your home field) and land to deliver the photos. If you want credit on the parser, there is a disc that appears inside the hanger closest to the windsock that you can blow up, but that's only for scoring not the mission triggers.

 

Great intel report, thanks Gascan. I saw some tracers as I flew into the area, but didn't see them as I circled what I thought was the target's vicinity. Maybe I ended up looking in the wrong spot. At least I know what to look for now.  

 

 

[US103_Baer]

On 4/5/2022 at 12:58 PM, Krab said:

Great intel report, thanks Gascan. I saw some tracers as I flew into the area, but didn't see them as I circled what I thought was the target's vicinity. Maybe I ended up looking in the wrong spot. At least I know what to look for now. 

 

Something i did back when transitioning to MP was to privately fly the Server maps (Wargrounds in those days) on my PC using the create server function in MP.

When you enter the real server the map copies into your multiplayer/dogfights folder which can then be easily found when 'creating' your own private server.

This way you get familiar with the layout and can even practice on the actual targets. Then when you do go online its all familiar.

Edited April 7, 2022 by US103_Baer

[RNAS10_Mitchell]

That's a great tip.?