Which flightstick should I get?

[SharkWolf2022]

Hi. I bought Il2 Battle Of Bodenplatte a few days ago and wondered what a cheap entry level joystick would be? I was thinking of the logitech 3d pro but many people recommend the Thrustmaster T.16000m but its 3x  the price...

[Drum]

Hi, SharkWolf2022.  I owned one many years ago and it's a good stick, it's got a twist handle for rudder input, throttle lever, 8 way hat switch (for viewing) and a total of 12 buttons.  With the price of sticks right now (stupid high) this stick will tie you over until you get your HOTAS.  ?

 

If you have a mike get the free demo of "Voice Attack", it has 20 programmable actions that you can use to compliment the stick's 12 buttons and with the keyboard you'll be all set to run IL-2.  It's cheap because it won't hold up very well to abuse, so don't get all excited and start reefing on it or try to push the buttons through their mountings and it'll do an excellent job for the short term (couple of years).

 

IMO, it's not much below the quality of the T.16000m in construction, just don't over torque the "pro" out of it, and it'll easily shoot down anyone around here.  ?

Edited April 3, 2022 by Drum

[1Sascha]

I'd suggest the VKB NXT EVO that I just bought a couple of weeks ago, but I'm not sure I'd call it "cheap". I have the entry level grip on it (replica of the German KG12 grip), with which it goes for €165 in Europe at the moment ... US prices are lower ($120), but I'm not sure if that's before or after tax.

 

https://flightsimcontrols.com/product/gladiator-nxt-evo-wwii-combat-edition/

^ EU store.

 

https://vkbcontrollers.com/?product=gladiator-evo-wwii-combat-edition

 

^ US-store.

 

 

If you want more buttons you'll have to go with their space-sim grip which makes the stick a lot more expensive (~€220).

https://flightsimcontrols.com/product/gladiator-evo-space-combat-edition/

 

Having used some cheaper joysticks in the past, including Logitechs, Saiteks and Thrustmasters, I'd always recommend the VKB for its superior electronics/sensors and super-precise mechanical components. It's also very adjustable WRT stiffness/spring tension. Again: You'll have to pay quite a bit more for all that, but it's worth it in the long run IMO. 

 

If you're set on the Thrustmaster, you might want to do some checking around: Over here in Germany, I've found their whole set (stick, throttle, pedals) on sale for very low prices. Lowest I've seen was €130 which is 35 less than what I paid for my VKB stick alone.

 

https://geizhals.de/thrustmaster-t-16000m-fcs-flight-pack-pc-2960782-a1549321.html

 

S.

Edited April 3, 2022 by 1Sascha

[Guest]

Be aware the TM set (stick, throttle and rudders) come with odd connectors on the rudder (non-USB), meaning you can't connect them on their own. I think the throttle is the same, it all daisy-chains to the stick. If you buy the rudders on their own they supply a little USB adapter. Yeah, why don't they supply that with the set? Probably because they figure down the road the user will be forced to buy an entire new rudder. We did that (I gave my bro my Warthog stick and throttle), took the adapter and sent the rudders back for a refund. Screw you TM.

Edited April 3, 2022 by Hetzer-JG51

[1Sascha]

37 minutes ago, Hetzer-JG51 said:

I think the throttle is the same

Dunno about the rudder pedals, but I bought the stand-alone version of the TWCS throttle about two weeks ago and it has a standard USB-plug. But it also has some sort of proprietary socket on the front, which probably means that TM haven't moved away from that system completely.

 

S.

[cardboard_killer]

10 hours ago, SharkWolf2022 said:

Hi. I bought Il2 Battle Of Bodenplatte a few days ago and wondered what a cheap entry level joystick would be? I was thinking of the logitech 3d pro but many people recommend the Thrustmaster T.16000m but its 3x  the price...

 

I'm going to plug my own sale item, which I think is a great deal if you're in the US and want a substantial stick for a low price.

 

 

[Sokol1]

23 hours ago, SharkWolf2022 said:

Hi. I bought Il2 Battle Of Bodenplatte a few days ago and wondered what a cheap entry level joystick would be? I was thinking of the logitech 3d pro but many people recommend the Thrustmaster T.16000m but its 3x  the price...

 

If your budget is limited - as "3x the price suggest"; the T.16000M is the "best" (just due lack of better) option, if find up to ~$70 - their MSRP; at least use contactless Hall sensor in X,Y axes, Logitech 3D PRO use potentiometer, what is subject to spikes with relative few use (it's a lottery).

 

But if you can spent at least $120 VKB NXT EVO WWII Combat Edition is the best option, and for more 15$ you can have the version with grip with more buttons, HAT's, the SCG.

https://vkbcontrollers.com/?product_cat=gladiator-nxt-joysticks

 

13 hours ago, Hetzer-JG51 said:

Be aware the TM set (stick, throttle and rudders) come with odd connectors on the rudder (non-USB), meaning you can't connect them on their own.

 

In the set yes.

But can buy the  USB dongle T.RJ12 that make TFRP as standalone rudder pedal, what will be only necessary if decide sell the stick and throttle keeping the pedals.

 

Can DIY one for little ~$5 using an Arduino PRO Micro, the connections scheme is available in DCS forum (input/output)

Edited April 3, 2022 by Sokol1

[artdev99]

On 4/3/2022 at 6:50 AM, 1Sascha said:

I'd suggest the VKB NXT EVO that I just bought a couple of weeks ago, but I'm not sure I'd call it "cheap". I have the entry level grip on it (replica of the German KG12 grip), with which it goes for €165 in Europe at the moment ... US prices are lower ($120), but I'm not sure if that's before or after tax.

 

https://flightsimcontrols.com/product/gladiator-nxt-evo-wwii-combat-edition/

^ EU store.

 

https://vkbcontrollers.com/?product=gladiator-evo-wwii-combat-edition

 

^ US-store.

 

 

If you want more buttons you'll have to go with their space-sim grip which makes the stick a lot more expensive (~€220).

https://flightsimcontrols.com/product/gladiator-evo-space-combat-edition/

 

Having used some cheaper joysticks in the past, including Logitechs, Saiteks and Thrustmasters, I'd always recommend the VKB for its superior electronics/sensors and super-precise mechanical components. It's also very adjustable WRT stiffness/spring tension. Again: You'll have to pay quite a bit more for all that, but it's worth it in the long run IMO. 

 

If you're set on the Thrustmaster, you might want to do some checking around: Over here in Germany, I've found their whole set (stick, throttle, pedals) on sale for very low prices. Lowest I've seen was €130 which is 35 less than what I paid for my VKB stick alone.

 

https://geizhals.de/thrustmaster-t-16000m-fcs-flight-pack-pc-2960782-a1549321.html

 

S.

HI.

What about a separate throttle and button unit to use with this stick.  what do you recommend. 

 

sorry if this is a duplicate post.  TIA

[Sokol1]

3 hours ago, artdev99 said:

What about a separate throttle and button unit to use with this stick.  what do you recommend. 

 

If you buy an VKB NXT EVO, the more affordable standalone throttle is Thrustmaster TWCS throttle or CH PRO Throttle (a vintage model), that will cost around ~$130.00

 

Can use the VKB GNX THQ three lever quadrant as "throttle" suitable for WW2 planes, but nor for (DCS) jets. This module can work as slave of NXT Evo. And for extra buttons, axes VKB GNX SEM, each cost $ 70.00. For work standalone is need a HID controller $ 15.00 (in VKB USA).

This knob FW 190 lookalike for GNX THQ for now is just teaser, but give you an idea, have the penalty of make on axis of THQ non usable.

 

http://forum.vkb-sim.pro/download/file.php?id=12124&mode=view

 

Or any "high end" throttle like VirPil T50 CM2 (412.00), WingWing Orion 2 ($236.00), Thrustmaster Warthog (~$320.00)

Edited May 9, 2022 by Sokol1

[1Sascha]

15 hours ago, artdev99 said:

What about a separate throttle and button unit to use with this stick.  what do you recommend. 

If you're just talking about buttons, you should check out VKB's line of NXT modules. They have all sorts of button-panels, some with throttle levers, some without, that are meant to go with their NXT sticks and can be attached and linked to them. Most of them strike me more as aimed at users of general aviation/commercial aviation sims, though. Personally, I would always go for a "true" HOTAS for combat simulators.

 

I'm currently using the TM TWCS throttle with my NXT Evo. Before I used the CH Pro throttle and a Microsoft Sidewinder FF2.

 

EDIT: Here's my entire current setup, minus the PS3 Eye camera I use for Opentrack.. ? Gladiator NXT Evo KG12 on the right, TM TWCS on the left, MFG Crosswind pedals under the desk, Delanclip IR-tracking clip cable-tied to my headset.

 

I kinda like the CH better WRT layout and overall build quality. But I'm not sure if it's even available any longer over here in Europe (can't seem to find it at reasonable prices). Plus if we're talking MSRP, the TM is still cheaper than the CH. I paid €80 in March 2022 for the TM as a stand-alone and around €130 back in 2015 when I bought the CH from amazon de.

 

Both use pots instead of more modern sensors (hall effect/contactless magnetic) so they're not as precise and might give you trouble down the road and/or need maintenance.  Case in point: My CH throttle started to jitter very shortly after I started using it. Probably a defect in the pot. I did manage to work around it with a macro I found on the web, but .. yeah... not exactly confidence-inspiring when it comes to the longevity of old-fashioned potentiometers. My hall-effect sensor equipped Sidewinders for example never, ever went out of calibration or went spikey/jittery on me in over 10 years of hard use.

 

One advantage that the TM does have over the CH is that it has a radio dial /slider axis which works great in IL-2 for POV adjustments/zoom. It also has a paddle control linked to an extra analogue axis on there which is meant to be used as a rudder control (for those without pedals or twisty-sticks). Both features are absent from the CH throttle - which does have one more 4-way hat-switch than the TM though. Another advantage of the CH is that it has a mode-selector that can switch the whole thing between three different modes. Which means that you can basically triple the number of functions you can map to the throttle. Something which the TM throttle doesn't have AFAIK. 

 

The TM's actual throttle action is probably worse than on the CH. I have it on a pretty loose setting (there's an adjustment screw for throttle friction) and it's usually pretty light, but it can still "hang" a bit when you're making tiny adjustments. Guess they're not using the right sort of lubricant (giggity!).

 

It's a bit too early for me to make a judgement on the TM's long-term performance, but so far, it's been  working flawlessly and it's precise enough (just) to make 1%-step adjustments in IL-2. What it could really use are afterburner-/WEP-detents. I'd probably be killing way less 109 K-4/G-14 engines if it had some sort of detent at around 80% in-game throttle. But hey.. it's an entry-level product, so you can't expect too much.

 

Mid-term I'll be looking at VKB's new throttle they've been promising for years now. If that thing ever hits the market, that is. All other offerings that I'm aware of are more expensive (TM Warthog throttle) or way more expensive (Virpil Mongoose). I also hear good things about Winwing's stuff, but that too isn't exactly cheap plus you'd have to deal with a small-ish company on the other side of the globe.

 

S.

 

 

Edited May 10, 2022 by 1Sascha

[artdev99]

I bought the TM stick and throttle. The throttle is recognized but not the stick.  keeps telling me to "plug in controller".  Any ideas?

[1Sascha]

You're talking about the 16000 stick and throttle I assume?

 

 

If so: How do you connect them to the PC? Do you have to daisy-chain them using TM's own plug or do you simply use one USB-plug for each? 

Where are/aren't they recognized? In Windows and games? Just in games?

Have you installed TM's Target software and/or their own drivers and calibrated the devices in there? Not sure about these two, but a lot of more modern input devices will not work if you calibrate them using Windows' game-controller panel.

 

On my system, with just the throttle, my CP for the throttle looks like this after I installed TM's drivers:

 

 

 

 

Also: You might want to check that your stick is set as your preferred input device "for use with older games".

Go into printers and devices, right click on your stick and select "game controller settings". Then select your stick from the list that pops up and click "advanced" underneath. This opens another dialogue where you can set your preferred game controller... make sure your stick is selected and press OK.

 

S.

 

 

[artdev99]

sorry for not responding sooner. 

I unplugged stick and shut computer then restarted with stick plugged in and it began to work.

The target software wouldn't run it gave some kind of message to create something that I didn't understand.  don't remember exact words.

 

Just spotted this thread and wanted to say I appreciate that you offered your help.