What is wrong with bigger bombs?

[FTC_Zero]

Bugs me quite a bit, especially in MP. Destruction radius of bombs over 1000kg seems quite underwhelming. 

Edited March 31, 2022 by FTC_Zero

[6./ZG26_Loke]

I bombed some Artillery with 500kg bombs. Even though one of the gun was clearly inside the blast zone, on the edge, nothing happen to it. 

 

[BCI-Nazgul]

I think the map designers set the toughness of the ground targets.   So the bombs could be fine, but the targets are set to be nearly indestructable.

[56RAF_Roblex]

A few days ago I took a P40 with big bomb and rockets and attacked a dense concentration of industrial buildings that was the target. I fired all the rockets into them then dropped the bomb on them. They were so close together that I was guaranteed many hits but when I got back I had hit absolutely nothing!  Weird.

[FTC_Zero]

Try to record your findings and post some screenshots with bombload info. #weakbombs 

Edited March 31, 2022 by FTC_Zero

[[DBS]Browning]

 

The craters in game are currently far too large, especially for the larger bombs.

Aside from being inaccurate, this also causes players confusion when objects are undamaged, despite being inside the crater.

This document suggests that a good rule of thumb for crater size is D[m]=0.8W[Kg TNT]^1/3 (+/- 30%). The variation accounts for soil type and conditions.

 

That would suggest diameter values of:

2500kg             9m - 16m (contact fuse) 11m - 21m (delay fuse) average 14m Ingame value ~120m

2000kg             8m - 15m (contact fuse) 11m - 20m (delay fuse) average 13m Ingame value ~120m

1800kg             8m - 15m (contact fuse) 10m - 19m (delay fuse) average 13m Ingame value ~120m

1000kg            6m - 12m (contact fuse) 8m - 16m (delay fuse) average 11m    Ingame value ~120m (7.5-20 times too big!)

500kg              5m - 10m (contact fuse) 7m - 12m (delay fuse) average 8m     Ingame value ~50m

454 (500lb)kg 5m - 9m (contact fuse) 6m - 12m (delay fuse) average 8m 

250kg              4m - 8m (contact fuse) 5m - 10m (delay fuse) average 7m      Ingame value ~40m

227 (250lb)     4m - 7m (contact fuse) 5m - 10m (delay fuse) average 7m  

200kg             4m - 7m (contact fuse) 5m - 9m (delay fuse) average 7m   

100kg              3m - 6m (contact fuse) 4m - 7m (delay fuse) average 6m       Ingame value ~15m

50kg                2m - 5m (contact fuse) 3m - 6m (delay fuse) average 4m      Ingame value ~10m

 

Aside from that, the destructiveness of the bombs is realistic for targets other than ones that have a hardness set by the mission editor.

Edited March 31, 2022 by [DBS]Browning

[FTC_Zero]

13 minutes ago, [DBS]Browning said:

 

The craters in game are currently far too large, especially for the larger bombs.

Aside from being inaccurate, this also causes players confusion when objects are undamaged, despite being inside the crater.

This document suggests that a good rule of thumb for crater size is D[m]=0.8W[Kg TNT]^1/3 (+/- 30%). The variation accounts for soil type and conditions.

 

That would suggest diameter values of:

2500kg             9m - 16m (contact fuse) 11m - 21m (delay fuse) average 14m Ingame value ~120m

2000kg             8m - 15m (contact fuse) 11m - 20m (delay fuse) average 13m Ingame value ~120m

1800kg             8m - 15m (contact fuse) 10m - 19m (delay fuse) average 13m Ingame value ~120m

1000kg            6m - 12m (contact fuse) 8m - 16m (delay fuse) average 11m    Ingame value ~120m (7.5-20 times too big!)

500kg              5m - 10m (contact fuse) 7m - 12m (delay fuse) average 8m     Ingame value ~50m

454 (500lb)kg 5m - 9m (contact fuse) 6m - 12m (delay fuse) average 8m 

250kg              4m - 8m (contact fuse) 5m - 10m (delay fuse) average 7m      Ingame value ~40m

227 (250lb)     4m - 7m (contact fuse) 5m - 10m (delay fuse) average 7m  

200kg             4m - 7m (contact fuse) 5m - 9m (delay fuse) average 7m   

100kg              3m - 6m (contact fuse) 4m - 7m (delay fuse) average 6m       Ingame value ~15m

50kg                2m - 5m (contact fuse) 3m - 6m (delay fuse) average 4m      Ingame value ~10m

 

Aside from that, the destructiveness of the bombs is realistic for targets other than ones that have a hardness set by the mission editor.

Thought about that visuals might not correlate with the destruction potential. At the same time, softer targets like weaker contructions, gun empacements, with squishy human operators or planes being unharmed, just some meters from the blast center seems still very off. I would understand if that destruction would be toned down, or otherwise tanks would be too easy to kill. But at the same time soft targets seem to have too much survivability.

[[DBS]Browning]

3 hours ago, FTC_Zero said:

Thought about that visuals might not correlate with the destruction potential. At the same time, softer targets like weaker contructions, gun empacements, with squishy human operators or planes being unharmed, just some meters from the blast center seems still very off. I would understand if that destruction would be toned down, or otherwise tanks would be too easy to kill. But at the same time soft targets seem to have too much survivability.

For 'Alive' units like moving tanks, planes and vehicles, the bomb damage is plausible.

 

A modern 1000lb bomb has roughly 50% chance of overturning a side-on truck at 50ft distance, but that's only if it explodes on the surface. Dropped bombs tend to bury a little, even on instant fuses (in the 1940s). Burying causes large reductions in both blast and shrapnel.

Unless the bomb is much closer, the over-turned truck may not be damaged significantly by shrapnel. 

A human will die from the blast at 50-80ft distance and have an ear drum rupture out to 120ft. These distances will drop dramatically if someone is behind only a little cover, but might increase if they are near a wall that reflects the blast.

 

Shrapnel will kill at further distances, but it's less of an issue than you might imagine in most cases. Secondary shrapnel (i.e. from falling buildings, glass from a windscreen etc) is more of an issue.

 

What effects the bomb might have and what counts as a 'kill' vary so much, but the current modelling is certainly somewhere within the range of real effects you could expect.

[FTC_Zero]

On 3/31/2022 at 5:53 PM, [DBS]Browning said:

For 'Alive' units like moving tanks, planes and vehicles, the bomb damage is plausible.

 

A modern 1000lb bomb has roughly 50% chance of overturning a side-on truck at 50ft distance, but that's only if it explodes on the surface. Dropped bombs tend to bury a little, even on instant fuses (in the 1940s). Burying causes large reductions in both blast and shrapnel.

Unless the bomb is much closer, the over-turned truck may not be damaged significantly by shrapnel. 

A human will die from the blast at 50-80ft distance and have an ear drum rupture out to 120ft. These distances will drop dramatically if someone is behind only a little cover, but might increase if they are near a wall that reflects the blast.

 

Shrapnel will kill at further distances, but it's less of an issue than you might imagine in most cases. Secondary shrapnel (i.e. from falling buildings, glass from a windscreen etc) is more of an issue.

 

What effects the bomb might have and what counts as a 'kill' vary so much, but the current modelling is certainly somewhere within the range of real effects you could expect.

Hmm, i see. Thanks for your in depth Infos, I hope Devs can do something about the visuals

[Roland_HUNter]