Best SP way to train for MP

[76SQN-Minimayhemtemp]

I suck at MP in FC.  Like really suck.  Been playing IL2 for around a year, exclusively in SP.  This week was the first foray into MP.  3 hours in the sky and I secure 1 kill on someone who I presume had stepped away from their computer, given the level flying and lack of evasion as I approached.

 

I'm going to read the FC FAQ to try and get as much help on tactics.  I fly the SE5A, which at times feels a bit uncompetitive in MP, but that might well be down to my crappy skills.

 

I've been also trying to fly against bots in SP, but they do not offer the same challenge at all - it's very easy to get behind them and blat them away.

 

What's the best SP way to train for MP, or is only the real deal the way to really train for it?

[J2_Seya]

The best way to train is to find a squad and play as a team.

 

Get on the flugpark discord and look into the recruitment posts.

 

A fun event to met people.

 

This book is amazing on how to fight.

 

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/66960-roundels-and-crosses-becoming-and-efficient-wwi-pilot-in-flying-circus/

Edited March 25, 2022 by J2_Seya

[J2_Trupobaw]

Or at least get onto Discord and wing up with other pilots on your side. Lone wolfing before you are very experienced puts you at massive disadvantage.

[=LD=Brazo]

We are a small squadron who fly mainly SE5A. Your right it’s not nearly as competitive as say a D7 in multiplayer but as a team of birds they can peck away at the Eagles!! 
 

If you fancy joining us one evening we are a friendly bunch. Can send you a discord invite?

Edited March 25, 2022 by 76SQN-Brazo

[=LD=Bulldog*]

Good lad, 76SQN-Brazo. We also fly the Dolphin as we love the way the canvas sheet blinds the rear. Wouldn't have it any other way as the Hun approach!

 

Woof!

 

76SQN-Bulldog

 

 

[=IRFC=Gascan]

Get on discord (the Jasta 5 discord is commonly used by people on the FlugPark who are not aligned with any squad). Or you can join a squad like 76SQN and get on their discord. Either way, get discord and fly with other people. We're a very welcoming bunch, and can help your SA, tactics, and provide tips and tricks that you'd never learn in a decade of playing SP.

If you really want to practice in SP, you need to think of what you want to practice. If you want to practice gunnery when bouncing a target, make a custom map that spawns a plane that flies on a straight course. Practice bouncing the target from above it and see how to improve your aim. This will help mostly with bouncing a target that doesn't spot you and try to evade, but will probably also improve your aim in a fight as you get used to leading the target.

If you want to practice spotting a target, have an AI patrol in a small area. Set the altitude: low plane to practice looking down at the trenches or the green fields of France, high to practice spotting from below or same altitude. See how far away you can find it, then fly away and come back from a different angle. You know approximately where the plane should be, so you can see how well you can pick up a target. This won't help you keep an eye all around you when patrolling or remind you to check 6 during a fight.

For ground attack in a SE5a, a quick mission with trucks, tanks, train, artillery, and such is good. Trucks and guns can be strafed, while everything can be bombed. The SE5a and Camel get 20lb cooper bombs that are effective against trucks, trains, trains, artillery, machine gun emplacements, and tents. The larger 112lb bombs carried by two-seaters like the DH-4 and the Bristol Fighter are are also effective against larger buildings like factories.

To really get good at dogfighting, though, there is no replacement for experience. Flying against the AI is in no way equivalent to flying against a player (I'm more proud of a single PVP kill than 10 AI). To gain experience, you need to fly against players. Some training servers have dueling areas where you and an opponent can spawn in at altitude and get right into a fight. Go crazy, fight hard, see how far you can push your plane, or set certain initial conditions you want to work on (how to defend from getting bounced, how to engage an opponent with altitude advantage/disadvantage, etc). Once the fight is over, respawn and start again without having to climb to altitude. The rapid and repetitive nature of dueling is good for gaining experience, especially if you're on the same discord as your opponent. That way you can get rapid feedback for how well you're fighting, how each maneuver affects your opponent, and how good your gunnery is.

Many fights are decided even before they begin based on how you approach the fight. What altitude, what planes are matched up, does your opponent see you, are there other planes in the area. Dueling won't help you learn how to set up a good fight, only how to survive or even win a fight under the circumstances you find yourself in. You gotta fly live on the FlugPark to learn how to set up a fight so you can win. You should really be on discord and fly with other players to help your SA, help you out in a pinch (or you help them out and maybe get a kill in the process), or even join in the escorts for a recon or bombing mission (those always attract hostile attention).

How much effort are you willing to put in to get better? The easiest thing by far is to hop on discord and fly with other people. Find who you enjoy flying with and join them. Not only will you get better, you'll have more fun, too.

[ATAG_Ezzie]

Gday Sloppycock,

 

Great advice has already been offered.  The only additional thing I will add is that you should invest some time in thinking about what you intend to do before you go flying and then conduct a debrief afterwards to identify what worked/didnt work and what you can do better.  Recording your sorties and then reviewing afterwards is an excellent way to do this. Watching the recording from your enemy's perspective (ie looking at your a/c from their perspective) is really useful as you can see how well / not so well you flew and what worked/didnt work.

 

While online virtual 'combat flying' may seem instinctive its actually quite cerebral in my opinion.  Drooski's excellent guide covers this and as Gascan says often dogfights are decided before they even commence.  So a big skill is knowing how to do this ie be in the dominate position before the fight starts and being OK with running away if you arent.  To quote Kenny

 

'You've got to know when to hold 'em
Know when to fold 'em
Know when to walk away
And know when to run'

 

Flying MP is a never ending challenge and if you think/review/adapt and rinse and repeat over time you will get better at it. Dont be disheartened if you are fokker /camel fodder initially - we've all been there and you will get better if you follow the advice above.

 

Good luck!!

 

Ezzie

 

[Zooropa_Fly]

As a non-communicating lone wolfer..

I'm not a fan of the SE5 (perhaps until the upper wing gun is removable but not holding my breath), but as with any plane it's best to develop a 'plan'.

Once you have your 'plan' - practice over and over until it becomes routine.

The SE5 is fast, and unless you get near a DVIIf higher up - you should be able to use your speed to be safe.

 

You'll need to be patient when it comes to getting kills :

German planes can take a lot to shoot down ; You have a miserly front gun load ; I don't thikn it's the best 'shooter' in the game.

 

My advice for any lone-wolfing in the SE would be fairly traditional.

Select target from above, swoop down from 700-1000m, full speed, 'hockey stick' aim, fire late and hard, extend, gain alt, repeat.

Aiming can be difficult against a nimble fighter, so maybe practice on bigger birds.. if not in fact make them your speciality.

 

An alternative to 'extending' - you can attack from directly above, shoot early, do a 180 and climb vertically until stall, repeat attack.. or extend if you don't fancy it.

A certain 'Winged Warrior' used to do this in RoF to devastating effect.

Watching him attack someone else from 1-2km away was something else. His 'zoom' was like watching a rocket launch, and you didn't want to be under the 'boom' !

 

Don't forget the SE has the stabiliser. Not something I used much, but once mastered such things can make the difference.

 

In general, everybody gets ripped a new one when they hop on to MP. There's always very talented seasoned vets around.

Bots are no preparation for this.

Shame there's no fast food scene these days. They were great for lots of practice vs some just as talented virtual pilots as anywhere else.

 

You'll figure it all out soon enough, as long as yer having fun doing it.

 

S!

 

[Todt_Von_Oben]

12 hours ago, Zooropa_Fly said:

As a non-communicating lone wolfer..

 

 

You mean, there's TWO of us???  ?

 

 

[Cynic_Al]

2 hours ago, Todt_Von_Oben said:

You mean, ther're TWO of us?

 

I'm sure that in practice the lone wolves outnumber the seal clubbers communicators; they certainly outnumber those relying on hand signals.

[Todt_Von_Oben]

17 minutes ago, Cynic_Al said:

 

I'm sure that in practice the lone wolves outnumber the seal clubbers communicators; they certainly outnumber those relying on hand signals.

 

"seal clubbers."  Heh!  ?

[US103_Baer]

@Sloppyclock

Stick with it. Nothing matches the heart-pounding action that MP often delivers. But you're going to get shot down a lot at first. 

 

All excellent advice from the guys. 

- Read Drookasi's book linked above. Many years of knowledge in there,  and it's free

- Get tactically savvy and fly to a plan that suits your plane. This is essential with something like the SE5a.

- Link up with others. It's more fun and you'll progress much faster. 

Edited March 27, 2022 by US103_Baer

[JGr2/J5_Mueller]

Welcome to FC, and congrats on not getting frustrated and giving up, everyone that posted has great advice, I would add that a small group of the coolest of pilots gets together during the wee hours of the graveyard shift to fight it out tooth and nail, it has been referred to as the Saturday night meme fights, where experience, knowledge, and fighting prowess ooze from the clouds, but a great place to learn quick while you get shredded. Also get on comms and fly Saturdays in the April campaign, my first Bloody April 3 was in 2013 and i been hooked ever since. Hope to see you in the skies over the front. S!

[J2_Trupobaw]

On 3/25/2022 at 6:36 PM, 76SQN-Bulldog said:

we love the way the canvas sheet blinds the rear.

 

 

Putting the head on Aldis height (without taking the Aldis) generally solves that problem for me. 

[76SQN-Minimayhemtemp]

Thanks for the fantastic advice all, I will be following every bit of it. 

 

I'm now on the discord channel too, and was part of the April Campaign testing yesterday, which in itself was a learning curve given I'd never really tried to bomb any targets in FC.  Thankfully a 5s timer and even a noob like me was able to take out some stronghold emplacements and a couple of locos.

 

76SQN - The offer to join your squardron sounds great.  I'm not sure how to proceed with that, but my discord username is the same as my forum user name.  Let me know if I need to register anywhere!

 

Hope to see you all in the skies soon.

 

[J2_Seya]

That's great. I'm glad you had lots of fun.

[=LD=Bulldog*]

Sloppycock: you are most welcome and we fly the Se5A and Dolphin mostly as well as some HP and Bristol if asked. 

 

I have asked Wellington how you can join our Discord comms.

 

Bulldog

[=LD=Bulldog*]

On 3/27/2022 at 4:23 PM, J2_Trupobaw said:

Putting the head on Aldis height (without taking the Aldis) generally solves that problem for me. 

Brazo worked out how to see backwards in the Dolphin without having to go head height. Allocate a button for - Pilot Head Snap Position: Backward.

 

Et voila!

 

Bulldog

[J2_Trupobaw]

Well, I found that putting head just above top wing gives me optimal visibility in all directions (took some training to look below that wing, but it's doable). But I suppose it's matter of which head position you put hours of training into.

[Todt_Von_Oben]

On 3/26/2022 at 12:51 AM, Zooropa_Fly said:

As a non-communicating lone wolfer..

 

 

For a "non-communicating lone wolfer," you made and hosted some of the best dogfight servers I ever saw.  Really miss 'em. 

 

You know I don't know zip about hosting a server but I can see where, in a lot of ways, it's a hard thing to do. But The Zoo rocked and I wonder if you'll ever bring it back.

 

I lost all your early server settings when my old computer died.  Would sure like to get The Twilight Zone and others back into my Offline Server Map collection.  There was so much creative variety there; really nothing else quite like it.  And it was excellent, bro.  Some of the best times I ever had in MP were spontaneous dogfights in those amazing environments at the Zoo.  I can think of quite a few others who could say the same.

 

But you know what we really need, amigo?  A BOMBER SITE.  Yep.  Basically, whatever map you like plus some fighters but gotta have both heavy bombers.

 

I see a lot of potential for practical training and "just plane fun" there.  And if you did it, I know it would be a blast.

 

Just out of curiosity: what would it take?

 

 

[Zooropa_Fly]

Thanks Todt, appreciate your kind words.

Sending you a PM so as not to clutter up the post.

 

S!

[Todt_Von_Oben]

14 hours ago, Zooropa_Fly said:

Thanks Todt, appreciate your kind words.

Sending you a PM so as not to clutter up the post.

 

S!

 

Roger that, buddy; and thanks.  Message received and replied to.  Have a good day, now.  ?

[RNAS10_Mitchell]

Great suggestions above.

 

I'd suggest for offline practice:

 

On the offline map, select an airbase that allows multiple planes and some land targets.  Have your side outnumbered.. Set everything to expert.  Set enemy skill to at least Veteran to start.   Start at a higher altitude, with a long distance between your flight and you enemy.   Once you spawn in,  try to find the enemy (without Padlock or tags).  Finding the enemy is one of the more challenging parts of online (imo). When you locate them, try to get in good attack position before you engage.  Also might be beneficial to practice takeoffs and landings..

 

Rinse and repeat..

 

Not the same as online as the others have mentioned, but should help you get a little bit prepared for your online experience.

Edited March 31, 2022 by RNAS10_Mitchell

[Todt_Von_Oben]

On 3/31/2022 at 3:21 AM, RNAS10_Mitchell said:

Great suggestions above.

 

I'd suggest for offline practice:

 

On the offline map, select an airbase that allows multiple planes and some land targets.  Have your side outnumbered.. Set everything to expert.  Set enemy skill to at least Veteran to start.   Start at a higher altitude, with a long distance between your flight and you enemy.   Once you spawn in,  try to find the enemy (without Padlock or tags).  Finding the enemy is one of the more challenging parts of online (imo). When you locate them, try to get in good attack position before you engage.  Also might be beneficial to practice takeoffs and landings..

 

Rinse and repeat..

 

Not the same as online as the others have mentioned, but should help you get a little bit prepared for your online experience.

 

Yep.  Putting oneself in the middle of eight enemy Aces is a great way to develop dogfighting skill.