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Crashing into the Ground in Cod and Tobruk


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Jackfraser24
Posted

Hi. I just want to ask about the damage modelling in Cliffs of Dover and Tobruk when your plane hits the ground. Why are the crash physics nowhere near as detailed as it is in Great Battles? Or even Rise of Flight? Could the game’s crash physics be upgraded to a similar level? 
 

Don’t get me wrong. I think the developers who fixed Cliffs of Dover did a great job, especially in damage modelling. I just think what I am saying should be considered. 
 

Thanks

  • Team Fusion
Posted
23 hours ago, Jackfraser24 said:

Hi. I just want to ask about the damage modelling in Cliffs of Dover and Tobruk when your plane hits the ground. Why are the crash physics nowhere near as detailed as it is in Great Battles? Or even Rise of Flight? Could the game’s crash physics be upgraded to a similar level? 
 

Don’t get me wrong. I think the developers who fixed Cliffs of Dover did a great job, especially in damage modelling. I just think what I am saying should be considered. 
 

Thanks

Not sure what you mean?

 

The damage modeling in CLIFFS is the equal and perhaps better than that of GREAT BATTLES...  not sure what you observed?

Guest deleted@7076
Posted (edited)

-Deleted-

 

Edited by Varrattu
Posted
3 hours ago, Buzzsaw said:

Not sure what you mean?

 

The damage modeling in CLIFFS is the equal and perhaps better than that of GREAT BATTLES...  not sure what you observed?

 

I think OP is specifically talking about when planes impact the ground without blowing up. This is certainly an area that can be improved upon, though such crashes aren't as common as blowing up or belly landing.

  • Upvote 1
343KKT_Kintaro
Posted
On 3/14/2022 at 8:53 AM, Jackfraser24 said:

Hi. I just want to ask about the damage modelling in Cliffs of Dover and Tobruk when your plane hits the ground. Why are the crash physics nowhere near as detailed as it is in Great Battles? Or even Rise of Flight? Could the game’s crash physics be upgraded to a similar level?

 

 

Jackfraser, the real thing is the complete opposite of what you say. Weather, Clouds and crashes are, in my opinion, good examples of the most difficult things to depict in a flight simulator. But crashes happen much more realistically in the Dover series than in the Great Battles series. By far. In Great Battles, all of these metal planes inherit too much of the physics of the Neoqb merge (d-Strict + Gennadich Team), which had been developed for a WWI sim. Impressive efforts and research had been done for the development of crash-simulation in the mid 2000s for Sikorsky Project/Knights of the Sky... yes, but unfortunately those physics effects were simplified at release of "Rise of Flight" in 2009. I remember my disappointment about the crash impacts in "Rise of Flight" in 2009. I love "Rise of Flight", but crash-simulation is not at its best in the game. Is still "Rise of Flight" installed in your computer? Simply fly one plane in external view and chrash it down to the ground at high speed : the impact simply doesn't flatten the aircraft's structure as it should. Too big pieces remain in one  compact block in spite of the so viiolent shock, mainly the fuselage and the engine. In Great Battles, 777 developers managed to push the threshold where the main structure of the plane needs to be flattened by the impact so that we see a realistic explosion... not an explosion that simultaneously happens with a ridiculously bouncing fuselage like in Rise of Flight... but we still see Great Battles planes (or big portions of planes) bounce on theground rather than getting flattened when savagely impacting the ground. The same problem develops in "Cliffs of Dover" when an aircraft bounces several times after a shock happens, but this, in "Cliffs of Dover", never happens when the plane really violently hits the ground. Cliffs is closer to the real physics, really.

 

Debris that remain completely still in the air... this is one problem we still have in the Dover series, but the crashes are by far much more realistic than they are in Great Battles. Furthermore, when an aircraft violently hits the ground, the explosions themselves are, visually, much more realistic in the Dover series.

 

  

3 hours ago, Varrattu said:

?

 

 

What do you mean? Who's the clown, Varrattu? Buzzsaw or you? This gif animation shows nothing that could be directly or indirectly related to crashes, nor to damage modelling. The few planes remaining suspended in the air while one is raising the gear (one 109 variant, cannot remember which one, and the 108 Taifun)... well, this had been treated in the past and, as far as I know, it had been fixed for ages now. After having read your post, and before I post here myself, I simply went in external view and raised my Taifun's gear. Progressively the aircraft lowered,  progressively the belly approached the ground... and finally the plane collapsed. Amazingly realistic. So, come on, Varrattu, rather than permanently working towards to harming the reputation of "Cliffs of Dover" again, again, and again... simply do it yourself: take a Taifun in the game, raise the landing gear and see what happens. You'll be surprised. Even more: try to down the gear again after the aircraft collapsed. At some point in the process, because of the stress that the weight applies to the gear's mechanism, the gear simply cannot entirely go back to the down position: you cannot lower it any further. Awesome. Physics like in the real world. In spite of that... still not happy with the game as it is Varrattu? Shame. But please don't lie to those who never installed "Cliffs of Dover" in their computers and read your posts in the present forums. You and a few other members in these forums are simply overusing this gif animation which no longer corresponds to the game as it is in the present day. Please... stop your little game.

 

 

1 hour ago, Cybermat47 said:

 

I think OP is specifically talking about when planes impact the ground without blowing up. This is certainly an area that can be improved upon, though such crashes aren't as common as blowing up or belly landing.

 

 

I'm surprised, Cybermat47, as I never whitnessed such an inconsistent phenomenon in "Cliffs of Dover". In my opinion, our two main problems with crahes in the Dover series develop when...

 

1) When debris stay still and suspended in the air. Years ago that was a plague, now things go better, but we still see some debris not falling the last inches down to the ground. I hope this problem will be fixed at some point in the future.

 

2) When some conditions are met, for example, with the plane grounded on a slight slope. This sometimes makes the plane bounces a bit too much before it meets a place where it lies quitely.

 

 

  • Like 1
  • Team Fusion
Posted
10 hours ago, Varrattu said:

Yes! Just an example ?

 

 

v5021_BF108.gif.b1898e5b098f6397b46e2339bd18e013.gif

 

Newton had a simple question out of curiosity is why a parked Bf108 doesn't come down while  landing gear is  going up. Later Newton realized that the brakes must be responsible for the plane to not fall downwards perpendicular to the ground. This was the major turning point and TF developed the Fourth law of gravity.

This is a situation which is created by the poster... not one which would normally occur.

 

Why would a player want to retract his undercarriage while the engine and propellor are running?

 

If the aircraft is in flight and lands with the undercarriage up, the behaviour is normal.

Guest deleted@7076
Posted (edited)

-Deleted-

 

 

Edited by Varrattu
Minor changes for better describing the issue (hopefully)
343KKT_Kintaro
Posted
8 hours ago, Varrattu said:

Initially it happened by accident

 

 

Maybe... but not on board a Bf 108 Taifun. It is very unlikely you MANUALLY raised your undercarriage up, not knowing, all along the process, that your Taifun still was on the ground. Your "accident" certainly happened when using a different type, didn't it?

 

 

8 hours ago, Varrattu said:

The situation in my post shows a plane in 'Alarmstart', brake shoes set. A standard situation that every Player can create with the Mission Builder.

 

 

 

Ok, that's clearer now. My previous tests didn't take into account the above, Varrattu, as I didn't know it. Also, I kept testing and it seems that the bug develops not only when brakes are set by default (as you're saying) but also when the chocks are set (by default or not).

 

I'll create the corresponding item in the bugtracker. Now... what if we stayed on topic?

 

 

  • 1 month later...
Posted
On 3/14/2022 at 8:53 AM, Jackfraser24 said:

Hi. I just want to ask about the damage modelling in Cliffs of Dover and Tobruk when your plane hits the ground. Why are the crash physics nowhere near as detailed as it is in Great Battles? Or even Rise of Flight? Could the game’s crash physics be upgraded to a similar level?

 

Compared to RoF and IL2: Cliff's planes are very nicely made, hats off, but always feel if they're made of cardboard IMO.

343KKT_Kintaro
Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, jollyjack said:

Compared to RoF and IL2: Cliff's planes are [...]

 

 

Even if there are no Sturmoviks in it, "Cliffs of Dover" is an "IL-2 Sturmovik" game. Since it was registered by Maddox Games (or maybe 1C) by 1999 aproximately, "IL-2 Sturmovik" is not only a soviet WWII aircraft, it is a registered brand as well, and the commercial use of this brand applies to three generations of air combat simulators: the very first one in 2001, the Dover series as of 2011 and the Great Battles series as of 2013.

 

Going back to the main topic, which is the crashes on the ground in "Cliffs of Dover"... please stop saying that other sims like "Rise of Flight" or "Great Battles" do show better explosions or better damage model when aircraft impact the ground. In the first place, aesthetically, the explosions and crashes of aircraft are visually far superior in the Dover series. They are just spectacular. As an example simply see this Bf 109 exploding on the ground at 8'30'' in the below video ("Reinhart", a commentator under the video, noticed the greatness of the explosion and suggests to watch as of 8'15''). You'll never see such a visual rendering of a crash in Rise of Flight nor in Great Battles. Second, the damage model is not only the array of visible effects you see on the inner cockpit view nor on the external view of your plane. There is the list of all "real" elements that could go wrong on board your plane in the eventuality of being hit... even if you do not see a thing. And in "Cliffs of Dover", the list of potential damaged elements and devices is... amazing.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by 343KKT_Kintaro
"Even if there a no" -> "Even if there are no"
LLv34_Flanker
Posted

S!

 

 Generally the crashes are within believeable. But sometimes you see issues like a fuselage bouncing around like a superball. Have had this a few times in the Bf110 for example. But at least you can do a crash landing without always dying, unless crashing into something etc.

  • Upvote 1
LLv34_Flanker
Posted

S!

 

Palnes also tend to bounce and explode when spawning inside certain hangars. I recall it was the French type. Never had it on RAF hangars.

343KKT_Kintaro
Posted
7 hours ago, LLv34_Flanker said:

Palnes also tend to bounce and explode when spawning inside certain hangars. I recall it was the French type. Never had it on RAF hangars.

 

 

It's not the spawning, the bug consists in the simple fact of being inside. For example, if you spawn outdoors and you steer your plane until you step inside one of the  bugged-affected hangars... the plane will explode too. You can go through the "blister hangars" with no problem (some kind of tubes that are opened by both sides), but there are at least two other types in France that cause problems: you'll be able to fit your plane inside one type of hangar that is of a small type I'd say, but the threshold will make your plane bounces enough so that your propeller collides whether the ground or the lintel. There's a bigger type in France that is far more problematic: impossible to pass the threshold, the aircraft will explode for sure.

 

The moral in this story is: as long as this bug is not fixed, use the hangars in England or in the Allies' airfields in North Africa, there will be no problem... but if you are steering an Axis aircraft on an Axis airfield... stay away from the hangars, you can approach them, but not go inside.

 

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