410

[Asgar]

I'm wondering, in all kinds of threads, when the 410 comes up. I've seen multiple comments talking about how it's too slow for it's time. At the same time people gosh over how fast and amazing the Mossie is. (sometimes the same people)

From what i've read online the 410 can do 624 km/h at around 6700m while the Mossie does around 631 km/h somewhere around 9000m altitude. (both numbers are the respsective top speed i was able to find)

How come people have such different opinions on a planes speed, while the difference (according to what i found online) is less than 10km/h

Edited May 4, 2022 by Asgar

[tattywelshie]

58 minutes ago, Asgar said:

I'm wondering, in all kinds of threads, when the 410 comes up. I've seen multiple comments talking about how it's too slow for it's time. At the same time people gosh over how fast and amazing the Mossie is. (sometimes the same people)

From what i've read online the 410 can do 624 km/h at around 6700m while the Mossie does around 631 km/h somewhere around 9000m altitude. (both numbers are the respsective top speed i was able to find)

How come people have such different opinions on a planes speed, while the difference (according to what i found online) is less than 10km/h

I agree, their bomb loads were quite similar as I believe. I think it comes down to the fact the Mosquito has got a sort of mystical status amongst many people. I mean, name one film where the 410 appears in, the Mossie has full on films which it stars in, so it’s more in the public eye. I’d say most folks who know have a basic knowledge of aircraft would recognise a Mossie and know the basics of the fact it was wooden and fast. The 410 though, no where near as well known due to numerous reasons, I think that goes a long way to explaining why everyone raves about the Mossie.

 

[BlitzPig_EL]

Much has to do with how they look.

 

The Mossie is pure sex.

The 410 is, well, it's German.

 

[Bremspropeller]

1 minute ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

The 410 is, well, it's German.

 

What's wrong with "Blitzkrieg mit dem Fleischgewehr"? ?

[Asgar]

10 minutes ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

Much has to do with how they look.

 

The Mossie is pure sex.

The 410 is, well, it's German.

 

So the stereotype about Americans having no taste or culture is true then?  

[AndyJWest]

The Me 410 is quite good looking, for a German plane. ?

[LuftManu]

Anything over another 109 looking plane, please! 

Me 410 looks really great with that cockpit, but also the Mosquito is classy.

 

Such a wonderful duo is coming, friends!

[kendo]

2 hours ago, Asgar said:

I'm wondering, in all kinds of threads, when the 410 comes up. I've seen multiple comments talking about how it's too slow for it's time. At the same time people gosh over how fast and amazing the Mossie is. (sometimes the same people)

From what i've read online the 410 can do 624 km/h at around 6700m while the Mossie does around 631 km/h somewhere around 9000m altitude. (both numbers are the respsective top speed i was able to find)

How come people have such different opinions on a planes speed, while the difference (according to what i found online) is less than 10km/h

 

Probably it's down to their different years of introduction - the Mosquito in late 41 with speed comparable to fighters of the time, the 410 two years later, by which time the game had moved on considerably.

 

Also wiki says the B MK XVI (1944 version) had max speed of 657km/h at 20,000 feet. PR XVI 668km/h.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

3 hours ago, Asgar said:

I'm wondering, in all kinds of threads, when the 410 comes up. I've seen multiple comments talking about how it's too slow for it's time. At the same time people gosh over how fast and amazing the Mossie is. (sometimes the same people)

From what i've read online the 410 can do 624 km/h at around 6700m while the Mossie does around 631 km/h somewhere around 9000m altitude. (both numbers are the respsective top speed i was able to find)

How come people have such different opinions on a planes speed, while the difference (according to what i found online) is less than 10km/h

 

It has much to do with recognizability. The Mosquito contributed to the war effort in numerous ways from high altitude pathfinder and night fighter to spectacular low level interdiction and pin point (for the time) missions against the Gestapo. It was remarkably good at a wide range of missions. The 410 has little to show in that regard and is easily overlooked by the common man. The 410, rightly or wrongly, is typically seen as easy prey for single engine fighters defending bomber streams. As Kendo said, speed is also relative to it's introduction.

[oc2209]

2 hours ago, tattywelshie said:

I agree, their bomb loads were quite similar as I believe. I think it comes down to the fact the Mosquito has got a sort of mystical status amongst many people. I mean, name one film where the 410 appears in, the Mossie has full on films which it stars in, so it’s more in the public eye. I’d say most folks who know have a basic knowledge of aircraft would recognise a Mossie and know the basics of the fact it was wooden and fast. The 410 though, no where near as well known due to numerous reasons, I think that goes a long way to explaining why everyone raves about the Mossie.

 

To expand on this a little, I also think the Mosquito's lasting fame is related to two other important factors:

 

1) The Mosquito was successful. This is not as simple a statement as it sounds. While any plane flying for the winning side will automatically look better in terms of its exploits, the fact remains that the Germans were unable to counter the Mosquito. Specifically regarding its night intruder operations.

 

2) The Germans attempted to copy the Mosquito or at least create a plane that could match its performance (and by performance, I don't just mean raw speed numbers; I'm talking overall success). As the saying goes, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. Thus, the Mosquito rated very high in the eyes of the Germans throughout the war; totally irrespective of post-war British nostalgia. This indicates to me there was something rather special about the design.

 

To bring up night intruder performance again, something that's always puzzled me: why the 410 was never deemed a worthwhile successor to the 110 for night operations. I know people have speculated on the reasons, but I've never heard a satisfactory, comprehensive answer yet.

 

For example, is there a reason why the Germans couldn't fit their radar into an enclosed housing, stick it in an enlarged nose on a modified 410, and get similar night fighter performance as the Mosquito?

 

Why were the Germans always trying, and failing, to catch up (literally and figuratively) to the Mosquito, specifically at night?

[Lusekofte]

Mossie and 410 will both be dead meat down low with a fighter with height advantage is close by, even co alt. 

It is just the way it is in this game.

There will always be a fighter above looking for fat targets. None of these planes will change gameplay. 

Like the JU 88 you can zoom down and kill something fast and get the hell out of there a bit faster

[tattywelshie]

4 minutes ago, oc2209 said:

 

To expand on this a little, I also think the Mosquito's lasting fame is related to two other important factors:

 

1) The Mosquito was successful. This is not as simple a statement as it sounds. While any plane flying for the winning side will automatically look better in terms of its exploits, the fact remains that the Germans were unable to counter the Mosquito. Specifically regarding its night intruder operations.

 

2) The Germans attempted to copy the Mosquito or at least create a plane that could match its performance (and by performance, I don't just mean raw speed numbers; I'm talking overall success). As the saying goes, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. Thus, the Mosquito rated very high in the eyes of the Germans throughout the war; totally irrespective of post-war British nostalgia. This indicates to me there was something rather special about the design.

 

To bring up night intruder performance again, something that's always puzzled me: why the 410 was never deemed a worthwhile successor to the 110 for night operations. I know people have speculated on the reasons, but I've never heard a satisfactory, comprehensive answer yet.

 

For example, is there a reason why the Germans couldn't fit their radar into an enclosed housing, stick it in an enlarged nose on a modified 410, and get similar night fighter performance as the Mosquito?

 

Why were the Germans always trying, and failing, to catch up (literally and figuratively) to the Mosquito, specifically at night?

The Germans didn’t have the cavity magnetron until 45, so had to rely on those massive stag antler radars, otherwise there is no doubt the 410 might have had a nose mounted radar such as the beaufighter.

[oc2209]

1 minute ago, tattywelshie said:

The Germans didn’t have the cavity magnetron until 45, so had to rely on those massive stag antler radars, otherwise there is no doubt the 410 might have had a nose mounted radar such as the beaufighter.

 

But why didn't they even use the grossly inefficient antlers on the 410?

 

I've read brief treatments on the whys and wherefores, and it seems to boil down to the speed gained (410 compared to 110) wasn't worth the loss of handling.

 

Which seems a pretty damning indictment of the 410. To have a plane built in fairly large numbers, readily available, at a time when Germany's hemorrhaging losses on all fronts, when any tiny advantage would be desperately needed--to take all of that into consideration, and still prefer the 110 for night fighting... it's just rather difficult for me to see the equation any other way, beyond that the 410 simply wasn't good enough. For whatever reasons.

 

And beyond all that, the Germans were continually wasting effort/resources on still trying to fashion a successor to the 110's night role. Even with the 410 sitting right there, collecting dust. For that reason alone, the 410 goes down as a massive failure in history.

 

Imagine for a moment that the 410 had been a really useful design. That it could have replaced the 110 as the Luftwaffe's premier night fighter circa late '43 or so. While its overall impact on the war would still be negligible, it surely would've cemented a more respectable position for itself in aviation history. The 110 would instead be viewed as the failure (for its BoB performance) and pulled from service well before the war's end. 

[tattywelshie]

8 minutes ago, oc2209 said:

 

But why didn't they even use the grossly inefficient antlers on the 410?

 

I've read brief treatments on the whys and wherefores, and it seems to boil down to the speed gained (410 compared to 110) wasn't worth the loss of handling.

 

Which seems a pretty damning indictment of the 410. To have a plane built in fairly large numbers, readily available, at a time when Germany's hemorrhaging losses on all fronts, when any tiny advantage would be desperately needed--to take all of that into consideration, and still prefer the 110 for night fighting... it's just rather difficult for me to see the equation any other way, beyond that the 410 simply wasn't good enough. For whatever reasons.

 

And beyond all that, the Germans were continually wasting effort/resources on still trying to fashion a successor to the 110's night role. Even with the 410 sitting right there, collecting dust. For that reason alone, the 410 goes down as a massive failure in history.

 

Imagine for a moment that the 410 had been a really useful design. That it could have replaced the 110 as the Luftwaffe's premier night fighter circa late '43 or so. While its overall impact on the war would still be negligible, it surely would've cemented a more respectable position for itself in aviation history. The 110 would instead be viewed as the failure (for its BoB performance) and pulled from service well before the war's end. 

Very good points, the 410 was a failure wasn’t it? Did it do anything the 110 couldn’t? I mean it was an improved version of an awful aircraft, they stopped manufacturing it in ‘44 as well didnt they? The whole Zestorer obsession was Goerings pet project and was never really a sound idea, particularly when used over Britain. The 110 was effective in nightfighter roles, but aside from that was it that effective? At one stage the Germans had 4 different twin engine nightfighter aircraft, the 110, He219, Dornier 217 and Ju88, that was one of the issues they had, just too many different types of plane. I’ve not got a massive amount of knowledge of the 110 in all honesty so not sure. The 410 is interesting though and I can’t wait to fly it, all adds to the diversity of aircraft for us to play with. 

Edited May 4, 2022 by tattywelshie

[=621=Samikatz]

 

3 minutes ago, oc2209 said:

 

But why didn't they even use the grossly inefficient antlers on the 410?

 

I've read brief treatments on the whys and wherefores, and it seems to boil down to the speed gained (410 compared to 110) wasn't worth the loss of handling.

 

I cannot for the life of me find the post again but someone here said that 410 units had notably higher loss rates than 110s in the same role. I assume the reason is that neither are going to run away from allied fighters, but at the very least the 110 has a good instantaneous turn and could make itself not worth the effort (plus experience and confidence in the 110's handling possibly?)

[oc2209]

29 minutes ago, tattywelshie said:

Very good points, the 410 was a failure wasn’t it? Did it do anything the 110 couldn’t?

 

Not much. The 410 could do fast bombing raids better than the 110, but such raids were rather pointless (as Operation Steinbock proved) for the Germans.

 

Given the circumstances and the time it was introduced (the perfected version, anyway), the 410 had only one real role to fulfill for Germany: night fighting. All of its daytime drawbacks would have been made irrelevant.

 

29 minutes ago, tattywelshie said:

The 410 is interesting though and I can’t wait to fly it, all adds to the diversity of aircraft for us to play with. 

 

Agreed. I find the plane fascinating in spite of its absolute historical futility.

 

29 minutes ago, tattywelshie said:

The 110 was effective in nightfighter roles, but aside from that was it that effective?

 

No, not really. The 110's limited top speed made it wholly obsolete as a day fighter by 1942. But there would have been no shame in the 410 to follow in the 110's footsteps; that is, transitioning quickly from a failed day fighter into a reasonably successful night fighter. That is, had the 410 been able to make the transition.

 

23 minutes ago, =621=Samikatz said:

I cannot for the life of me find the post again but someone here said that 410 units had notably higher loss rates than 110s in the same role. I assume the reason is that neither are going to run away from allied fighters, but at the very least the 110 has a good instantaneous turn and could make itself not worth the effort (plus experience and confidence in the 110's handling possibly?)

 

Sounds plausible. Accident rates would also add to overall losses for the 410. I must imagine it had a higher accident rate than the 110.

Edited May 4, 2022 by oc2209

[BlitzPig_EL]

3 hours ago, Asgar said:

So the stereotype about Americans having no taste or culture is true then?  

 

Actually my ancestry on my father's side is German, and my mother's side is Italian.  I grew up with many things German and Italian, especially food.  I like Wagner and Puccini. I have a great love for the Porsche 356 and early Alfa Romeos.  Set up some fine German beer, or a good Chianti Classico, and I'm a happy camper. 

[354thFG_Panda_]

5 hours ago, Asgar said:

I'm wondering, in all kinds of threads, when the 410 comes up. I've seen multiple comments talking about how it's too slow for it's time. At the same time people gosh over how fast and amazing the Mossie is. (sometimes the same people)

From what i've read online the 410 can do 624 km/h at around 6700m while the Mossie does around 631 km/h somewhere around 9000m altitude. (both numbers are the respsective top speed i was able to find)

How come people have such different opinions on a planes speed, while the difference (according to what i found online) is less than 10km/h

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/mosquito/mosquito.html

Now I am not sure which particular version we are getting or the modification it will get for certain boost settings but there is quite a speedy variant of the mosquito down low. Still slower than fighters it's against but for a heavy twin quite good. 

[357th_KW]

5 hours ago, Asgar said:

I'm wondering, in all kinds of threads, when the 410 comes up. I've seen multiple comments talking about how it's too slow for it's time. At the same time people gosh over how fast and amazing the Mossie is. (sometimes the same people)

From what i've read online the 410 can do 624 km/h at around 6700m while the Mossie does around 631 km/h somewhere around 9000m altitude. (both numbers are the respsective top speed i was able to find)

How come people have such different opinions on a planes speed, while the difference (according to what i found online) is less than 10km/h

 

The Mosquito's reputation for speed and being immune to interception by German fighters comes from the PR variants with two-stage Merlins.

 

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/mosquito/dz540-level.jpg

 

Note that this PR XVI tested in Nov 1943 is about as fast as an FW190A up at high altitude, but with two external fuel tanks mounted.

[Avimimus]

8 hours ago, Asgar said:

I'm wondering, in all kinds of threads, when the 410 comes up. I've seen multiple comments talking about how it's too slow for it's time. At the same time people gosh over how fast and amazing the Mossie is. (sometimes the same people)

From what i've read online the 410 can do 624 km/h at around 6700m while the Mossie does around 631 km/h somewhere around 9000m altitude. (both numbers are the respsective top speed i was able to find)

How come people have such different opinions on a planes speed, while the difference (according to what i found online) is less than 10km/h

 

I think it is reputation really:

 

The Mosquito was used as a medium to high altitude night bomber. Intercepting a bomber is difficult unless one has enough speed to simultaneously climb and run down (or get in front of) the bomber  German night fighters, weighed down by their avionics and based on twin-engined types, were also slower aircraft.

 

In contrast, a recon Me-410 used during the day is risking being jumped by single-engined fighters. The immense number of day fighters from 1944 onward meant that there was often something in a position to intercept them over the coast or over Normandy. A Zerstörer Me-410 attacking heavy bombers is still likely to get jumped by single-engined day fighters... so that is still the metric it is measured against.

 

This different context leads to very different reputations.

 

 

  

4 hours ago, oc2209 said:

Agreed. I find the plane fascinating in spite of its absolute historical futility.

 

It is kind-of fascinating just how much of the Axis planeset this applies to! Interesting engineering, but inherently futile. I think the He-162 might be the epitome of that (well, for practical purposes. I'm sure some of the paper designs take it even further down that road - but the He-162 also contains within it a recognition of how badly the war was going, which makes it a bit special).

[=621=Samikatz]

From a simulation standpoint, flawed and weird aircraft are still very exciting to play. That we're not reliant on them to keep us alive means we can enjoy the unique challenge of them

[oc2209]

5 hours ago, VBF-12_KW said:

 

The Mosquito's reputation for speed and being immune to interception by German fighters comes from the PR variants with two-stage Merlins.

 

 

Recon planes don't really count in my book. Even the Japanese had a very difficult to catch recon plane in the Dinah; and Japanese planes weren't known for speed. It barely hit 400 MPH. 

 

What makes virtually all specialized recon planes hard to catch is that they're generally not armed; operating at higher than average altitudes; difficult to spot because they're alone; etc.

 

Far more impressive was the Mosquito's ability to hunt down German night fighters and otherwise operate in German airspace at night with relative impunity.

 

2 hours ago, Avimimus said:

It is kind-of fascinating just how much of the Axis planeset this applies to! Interesting engineering, but inherently futile. I think the He-162 might be the epitome of that (well, for practical purposes. I'm sure some of the paper designs take it even further down that road - but the He-162 also contains within it a recognition of how badly the war was going, which makes it a bit special).

 

Considering Germany's position when it developed the He-162, yeah, it definitely counts as a major engineering feat to design and field a wholly unconventional jet design that also ended up being somewhat flyable, in a short amount of time, while being bombed round the clock. 

 

1 hour ago, =621=Samikatz said:

From a simulation standpoint, flawed and weird aircraft are still very exciting to play. That we're not reliant on them to keep us alive means we can enjoy the unique challenge of them

 

Very true.

[Juri_JS]

I always wondered, which reputation the Me-410 would have today, if it had been used on the eastern front as fighter-bomber. Similar to the use of the Me-210 C by the Hungarian air force, that was apparently rather successful.

[Asgar]

2 minutes ago, Juri_JS said:

I always wondered, which reputation the Me-410 would have today, if it had been used on the eastern front as fighter-bomber. Similar to the use of the Me-210 C by the Hungarian air force, that was apparently rather successful.

Maybe some of the talented mission makers in our community can give us an alternate history campaign to find out ?

[Dragon1-1]

 

Well, for one, there were just under 8000 Mossies made, while the Germans only made just over 1000 Me-410s. The latter just didn't really have a chance to earn a reputation. It just spent way too long in development, seeing as the Me-210 was a lemon and the Me-310 didn't even enter production. If they had gotten it right from the start, maybe it'd have had a bigger impact.

[Juri_JS]

40 minutes ago, Asgar said:

Maybe some of the talented mission makers in our community can give us an alternate history campaign to find out ?

Actually it's possible that a few ground attack missions were flown in the east by Me-410s. II./ZG 76 was based in East Prussia until November 1944. During October the Red Army launched the Gumbinnen Operation and crossed the border of East Prussia.  The Luftwaffe was quite active during this battle, but unfortunately I can't find any information what II./ZG 76 did during this time.

[Ribbon]

13 hours ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

 

Actually my ancestry on my father's side is German, and my mother's side is Italian.  I grew up with many things German and Italian, especially food.  I like Wagner and Puccini. I have a great love for the Porsche 356 and early Alfa Romeos.  Set up some fine German beer, or a good Chianti Classico, and I'm a happy camper. 

??

[ShamrockOneFive]

20 hours ago, Asgar said:

I'm wondering, in all kinds of threads, when the 410 comes up. I've seen multiple comments talking about how it's too slow for it's time. At the same time people gosh over how fast and amazing the Mossie is. (sometimes the same people)

From what i've read online the 410 can do 624 km/h at around 6700m while the Mossie does around 631 km/h somewhere around 9000m altitude. (both numbers are the respsective top speed i was able to find)

How come people have such different opinions on a planes speed, while the difference (according to what i found online) is less than 10km/h

 

IMHO the legend of the Mosquito, that could out-run those German fighters just by pushing the throttle forward, is mostly wartime propaganda that continues on. Some folks are going to be disappointed.

[Lusekofte]

2 hours ago, Juri_JS said:

Actually it's possible that a few ground attack missions were flown in the east by Me-410s. II./ZG 76 was based in East Prussia until November 1944. During October the Red Army launched the Gumbinnen Operation and crossed the border of East Prussia.  The Luftwaffe was quite active during this battle, but unfortunately I can't find any information what II./ZG 76 did during this time.

Pretty sure Hungarians used it as a fighter bomber, and it served well there.

210 had such a bad reputation with lw pilots , and many articles claim it stuck to the 410 too.

These articles prove one thing, if crew likes the plane, it will be legendary. 

Mosquito simply gave pilots confidence , 410 did not do that.

To me it seems like the 177, it was there, and we have to use it.

But I am just as excited about 410 as I am about the Mossie. Because it is the most sexy plane ever made. It simply looks mean

Edited May 5, 2022 by LuseKofte

[Eisenfaustus]

I think „uncatchable“ is often cited out of context. It wasn’t technically uncatchable but tactically. Hard to detect as the mosquito was the Luftwaffe often had very short reaction times for an interception. So while you climb there is a good chance you’ll lose contact before you reach your target. And even if the contact is still hot a single engined fighter might run into fuel trouble if he follows a mosquito over a long distance at high speed when he is only marginally faster.

So even if the Luftwaffe had aircraft that would win a fair race against a mosquito the tactical situation would make an intercept next to impossible. 

[easterling77]

8 minutes ago, Eisenfaustus said:

I think „uncatchable“ is often cited out of context. It wasn’t technically uncatchable but tactically. Hard to detect as the mosquito was the Luftwaffe often had very short reaction times for an interception. So while you climb there is a good chance you’ll lose contact before you reach your target. And even if the contact is still hot a single engined fighter might run into fuel trouble if he follows a mosquito over a long distance at high speed when he is only marginally faster.

So even if the Luftwaffe had aircraft that would win a fair race against a mosquito the tactical situation would make an intercept next to impossible. 

In short words many problematic aspects, that many people don't see or maybe ignore.

 

We might have to accept that there was, is and will be much biassed thoughts and feelings about these planes and there will allways be some people, not happy and whining.

 

I'm just happy and very excited about these two for me really outstanding planes and I can't wait to get both of them?

Edited May 5, 2022 by easterling77

[Gingerwelsh]

Me 410A, (pilot Richard Pahl, Iron Cross 1st class)) paid a visit to my home town, Brighton, 18/19th April 1944.

 

Shot down by Mosquito NF XIII night fighter, ZJ-V HK 426, (pilot Wing Commander E. D. Crew DFC). 96 Squadron West Malling.

96 20mm rounds fired. 48 SAPI and 48 HEI. some of which were found in the aircraft.

 

Pahl was buried in Brighton Borough Cemetary, (as are several generations of my familly) with full military honors.

His crew member washed up on the beach the next day, same day as this futile 'Operation Steinbock' was suspended.

 

 

Nice!

 

 

 

..

Edited May 6, 2022 by Gingerwelsh

[ShamrockOneFive]

22 minutes ago, Eisenfaustus said:

I think „uncatchable“ is often cited out of context. It wasn’t technically uncatchable but tactically. Hard to detect as the mosquito was the Luftwaffe often had very short reaction times for an interception. So while you climb there is a good chance you’ll lose contact before you reach your target. And even if the contact is still hot a single engined fighter might run into fuel trouble if he follows a mosquito over a long distance at high speed when he is only marginally faster.

So even if the Luftwaffe had aircraft that would win a fair race against a mosquito the tactical situation would make an intercept next to impossible. 

 

Yes that's absolutely the case. In the broader context, high flying Mosquito pathfinders, recon flights and bombers were quite adept and capable of avoiding detection until it was too late to feasibly intercept with any reliability. But that context gets lost and it just becomes "the Mosquito was the fastest ....brrrrrrr" And on we go

[Avimimus]

11 hours ago, =621=Samikatz said:

From a simulation standpoint, flawed and weird aircraft are still very exciting to play. That we're not reliant on them to keep us alive means we can enjoy the unique challenge of them

 

This! So much!

 

When you first start out (at least me at age 13) you want the fastest, most revolutionary design possible. I remember thinking that 30mm seemed a bit 'small'.

 

But when one gets more experience one realises that a lot of what sustains enjoyment and interest in the long-term is either:

- finding ways to make use of more challenging aircraft (the satisfaction of succeeding as the underdog)

- or enjoying learning the ins-and-outs of the quirkier aspects of quirkier planes.

 

I suspect many of us have undergone a similar evolution over the years!

[PatrickAWlson]

23 hours ago, Asgar said:

I'm wondering, in all kinds of threads, when the 410 comes up. I've seen multiple comments talking about how it's too slow for it's time. At the same time people gosh over how fast and amazing the Mossie is. (sometimes the same people)

From what i've read online the 410 can do 624 km/h at around 6700m while the Mossie does around 631 km/h somewhere around 9000m altitude. (both numbers are the respsective top speed i was able to find)

How come people have such different opinions on a planes speed, while the difference (according to what i found online) is less than 10km/h

 

My best  guess is what they were asked to do.  The 410 seems to have been very good  in its role as a raider, but that is not what it was primarily used for.  It's front and center purpose was to take out bombers.  Once the bombers had fighter cover it wasn't very good at it.  Reverse the situation and ask a Mossie to take out defended bombers in 1944 and it probably would not have fared any better.  However, the Mossie was used as a raider and night fighter, and it excelled in both roles.

 

So the 410 isn't so much a bad plane as much as it was a plane that was not very good at what the Germans wanted it for.

[Gambit21]

2 hours ago, ShamrockOneFive said:

 

Yes that's absolutely the case. In the broader context, high flying Mosquito pathfinders, recon flights and bombers were quite adept and capable of avoiding detection until it was too late to feasibly intercept with any reliability. But that context gets lost and it just becomes "the Mosquito was the fastest ....brrrrrrr" And on we go

Twin Merlin’s. So rather than one legendary engine - it has two.
I’m talking from a hype standpoint of course. The 410 has twin…what engine was that again? (Not kidding - I have no idea) So there’s a perfect illustration I think.

 

 

 

 

 

[easterling77]

48 minutes ago, Gambit21 said:

Twin Merlin’s. So rather than one legendary engine - it has two.
I’m talking from a hype standpoint of course. The 410 has twin…what engine was that again? (Not kidding - I have no idea) So there’s a perfect illustration I think.

 

 

 

 

 

It got two DB 603's kinda big beasty engines by considering their performance stats. (significant higher displacement than the DB 605 in the 109)

 

Im kinda courious about Jasons post that we will get two diffrent versions of the 603

[Asgar]

11 minutes ago, easterling77 said:

It got two DB 603's kinda big beasty engines by considering their performance stats. (significant higher displacement than the DB 605 in the 109)

 

Im kinda courious about Jasons post that we will get two diffrent versions of the 603

the 603 Aa or AA depends on source, is basically the same engine with a bigger supercharger, increasing FTH to around 7300m from 5700m of the 603A

You get more high altitude performance but around 80 HP (metric) less on sea level

Too bad the development of the DB 603G (planned for the Me 410B) was cancelled, it was supposed to use C3 fuel, and deliver 1900 HP at sea level vs the 1750 HP of the 603A

Edited May 5, 2022 by Asgar

[easterling77]

Yup I'm courios about the diffrence in flight an performance-characteristics in the sim....OK, you got me!!! I'm just excited?

 

The Mossie and the 410 are quite the most interesting planes for myself in BON

Edited May 5, 2022 by easterling77

[Asgar]

Just now, easterling77 said:

Yup I'm courios about the diffrence in flight an performance-characteristics in the sim....OK, you got me!!! I'm just excited?

 

The Mossie and the 410 are quite the most interesting planse for myself in BON

Same for me. I love twins. I enjoy the 110s and the P-38 a lot and i can't wait to fly those planes. May even try the 234 with the gun pod and try to surprise some unsuspecting bombers ? 
I really hope we get our hands on those planes soon. They really kept the 3 most interesting planes for last.