IL2 Prices

[IckyATLAS]

Very often comes here and there a discussion on prices. I wanted here just maybe to relativise the gap between 12 dollars and 50 dollars let's say between a regular price and a sale promotion. I see many would wait for months sometimes to get to that seasonal promotion. No problem with that and everybody has to care for its leisure budget and where they put their money. In percentage that's indeed a difference of a factor of three or 300%. Wow that's seems enormous. But still those 300% represent a gap of 38 dollars.

 

To put that amount in perspective it corresponds to a three to four BigMac Large meals at average US prices. Here in Switzerland everything is so expensive that it is less than two. Let's keep US prices. Anyway once you've eaten them that's it, you are left with nothing, (besides some boxes paper, plastic to throw away) it is as simple as that.  Your "pleasure time" is say 15 minutes per meal, that is a whopping 45 minutes let be generous and say one hour of a thrilling gastronomical experience. 

 

Now let's compare what you get for the same additional amount if it is invested (yes the term is correct here) in an IL2 game. First what you buy will last with you for many years. In my case it is already nine years. And the product is in continuous evolution, improvement. This means that the gastronomical experience improves all along, (once a month more or less) always better and this without buying an additional meal. Frankly you do not buy a meal for that price gap but a complete restaurant with an infinity of different meals. And so your pleasure time can be counted in weeks, months, years, no limit. And to make it even more complete for the same price you get the Full Mission Builder or Mission Editor  which is a professional tool to create your own mission and campaigns as you like, which is like for the same price getting also the kitchen with all the equipment and make your own recipees instead of the usual burgers.

 

Is there competition if we look at the MacDonalds example I use here, maybe another similar could be a little cheaper here and there depending on promotions, or whatever other lower quality fast food brand. Not here, IL2 is unique, and there is no real direct competition that can offer the same level of air land sea battle environment and  experience in the WWII era timeframe. 

 

So in conclusion 12 or 50 or even up to 80 remains dirt cheap in my point of view. I see nothing else that for that price has procured me as much as a fantastic sim experience. I agree that this all depends on your personal taste but me as a pilot and fan of the WWII era battleground with propeller driven piston engine aircraft I can just say go for it now, the ROI is absolutely fantastic.

 

And by paying the full price you also contribute to keep the dream alive help the development team to continue creating and improving this fantastic sim.

 

 

[parasxosg]

I don't know if this is something that is proper to be mentioned in a gaming forum but 80$ is 1% of some peoples (my ) GROSS annual income in some countries.... and before people start the : if you cant afford it git gud in life and other charming, people must have some hobbies.  not all spots on earth are paradise. peace out

[Raptorattacker]

35 minutes ago, IckyATLAS said:

Not here, IL2 is unique, and there is no real direct competition that can offer the same level of air land sea battle environment and  experience in the WWII era timeframe. 

But don't forget to eat properly!!

[Pikestance]

People pay what they can afford to pay. Buying from the store is more important than buying full price. 

Edited March 12, 2022 by ACG_Pike

[unlikely_spider]

Not to complicate the situation, but what if you choose a Happy Meal that contains direct competition to the IL-2 series and my expenditure of free time?

[BlitzPig_EL]

I have been enjoying " IL2" since the old Blubyte days. If I were to add up the costs of every version, and the various peripherals and computers I've purchased over the past 20+ years the per day outlay of money spent is laughably small in comparison to the fun, comradeship,

and education recieved.  None of my other interests can compare.

[Goffik]

While I agree with the sentiment of the OP, the trouble with the argument is that everything is relative. If you earn £1000 per month (after bills) then £60 for flight sim content is pocket change. If you earn £100 per month (after bills) then it's a massive chunk of your disposable income. Yes, the cost-to-entertainment ratio is going to be high if you're a flight sim enthusiast, but it doesn't change the fact that it may not be affordable in the first place.

 

Of course, that isn't a "problem" per se. It's just life... most of us will have budgets and will have to make choices on how they are used. Most of us can't have everything we want, at least not all at once. IL-2 is a luxury product after all, not a necessity. Unfortunately that reasoning is often not enough for our increasingly entitled society, in which people seem to think that they have a right to have everything, at a cost that suits them. Hence the complaints about "high" prices and the constant queries about the next sale.

 

I'm currently one of those who can't afford to spare the cash required for new content, in any of my flight sims. Such is life. I'm not going to complain about it or demand that the prices be lowered just for me. I'll wait for my finances to improve, or for the content I want to go on a generous sale. And if those fail and I get too "bored" of the content I already have, I'll simply find something else to do with my time instead. Contrary to popular belief, TV and video games are not the only entertaining hobbies out there, and many other things can be done completely free of charge.

[IckyATLAS]

2 hours ago, ACG_Pike said:

People pay what they can afford to pay. Buy from the store is more important than buying full price. 

You are right on this. Whatever the amount of the sale,  better buying directly from the store.

[Irishratticus72]

5 hours ago, IckyATLAS said:

Very often comes here and there a discussion on prices. I wanted here just maybe to relativise the gap between 12 dollars and 50 dollars let's say between a regular price and a sale promotion. I see many would wait for months sometimes to get to that seasonal promotion. No problem with that and everybody has to care for its leisure budget and where they put their money. In percentage that's indeed a difference of a factor of three or 300%. Wow that's seems enormous. But still those 300% represent a gap of 38 dollars.

 

To put that amount in perspective it corresponds to a three to four BigMac Large meals at average US prices. Here in Switzerland everything is so expensive that it is less than two. Let's keep US prices. Anyway once you've eaten them that's it, you are left with nothing, (besides some boxes paper, plastic to throw away) it is as simple as that.  Your "pleasure time" is say 15 minutes per meal, that is a whopping 45 minutes let be generous and say one hour of a thrilling gastronomical experience. 

 

Now let's compare what you get for the same additional amount if it is invested (yes the term is correct here) in an IL2 game. First what you buy will last with you for many years. In my case it is already nine years. And the product is in continuous evolution, improvement. This means that the gastronomical experience improves all along, (once a month more or less) always better and this without buying an additional meal. Frankly you do not buy a meal for that price gap but a complete restaurant with an infinity of different meals. And so your pleasure time can be counted in weeks, months, years, no limit. And to make it even more complete for the same price you get the Full Mission Builder or Mission Editor  which is a professional tool to create your own mission and campaigns as you like, which is like for the same price getting also the kitchen with all the equipment and make your own recipees instead of the usual burgers.

 

Is there competition if we look at the MacDonalds example I use here, maybe another similar could be a little cheaper here and there depending on promotions, or whatever other lower quality fast food brand. Not here, IL2 is unique, and there is no real direct competition that can offer the same level of air land sea battle environment and  experience in the WWII era timeframe. 

 

So in conclusion 12 or 50 or even up to 80 remains dirt cheap in my point of view. I see nothing else that for that price has procured me as much as a fantastic sim experience. I agree that this all depends on your personal taste but me as a pilot and fan of the WWII era battleground with propeller driven piston engine aircraft I can just say go for it now, the ROI is absolutely fantastic.

 

And by paying the full price you also contribute to keep the dream alive help the development team to continue creating and improving this fantastic sim.

 

 

Jason? 

[Ghost666]

2 hours ago, unlikely_spider said:

Not to complicate the situation, but what if you choose a Happy Meal that contains direct competition to the IL-2 series and my expenditure of free time?

Is that a collector plane? I want it!

[BlitzPig_EL]

Clearly over modeled.

 

[Majpalmer]

I purchased my first flight sim in 1985--SubLogic's JET. I think the price was about $16. If you adjust that for inflation, in 2022 dollars that would be around $42--about half of the price of one of the Great Battles pieces. 

 

BUT!!!! What did I get in 1985? One flyable aircraft. Sound effects on my PC version were beeps! No engine sound. No campaigns. No career mode. No online. No Coop. No upgrades. 

 

Look at it another way. I spent $16 on the game; $1100 on the PC I had just bought--my first (Korean-made Leading Edge). My current PC, purchased last year, cost $4100, almost 4X the price of the Leading Edge. And the Leading Edge came with its own monitor. Throw in another One large for my Samsung 49". 

 

So is $80 for an IL-2 set high? I'd say no. It's a comparative bargain, considering all that you get. 

 

And then there's the time spent with the product. Did I spent anywhere near as much time playing Jet as I have with Battle of Moscow? No way! And I'll be playing Il 2 for years. Jet was soon stuffed away in a closet, superseded by whatever I moved on to next. 

 

That said, I know that prices, as many have already said, are relative. For me in 1985, that $1100 and $16 were a huge percentage of my disposable income. Despite the prices today, the purchase of my latest rig and Il2 components are nowhere nearly as painful. 

[Pikestance]

6 minutes ago, Majpalmer said:

I purchased my first flight sim in 1985--SubLogic's JET. I think the price was about $16. If you adjust that for inflation, in 2022 dollars that would be around $42--about half of the price of one of the Great Battles pieces. 

 

BUT!!!! What did I get in 1985? One flyable aircraft. Sound effects on my PC version were beeps! No engine sound. No campaigns. No career mode. No online. No Coop. No upgrades. 

 

Look at it another way. I spent $16 on the game; $1100 on the PC I had just bought--my first (Korean-made Leading Edge). My current PC, purchased last year, cost $4100, almost 4X the price of the Leading Edge. And the Leading Edge came with its own monitor. Throw in another One large for my Samsung 49". 

 

So is $80 for an IL-2 set high? I'd say no. It's a comparative bargain, considering all that you get. 

 

And then there's the time spent with the product. Did I spent anywhere near as much time playing Jet as I have with Battle of Moscow? No way! And I'll be playing Il 2 for years. Jet was soon stuffed away in a closet, superseded by whatever I moved on to next. 

 

That said, I know that prices, as many have already said, are relative. For me in 1985, that $1100 and $16 were a huge percentage of my disposable income. Despite the prices today, the purchase of my latest rig and Il2 components are nowhere nearly as painful. 

Oh my... we need levity with this...

 

 

Edited March 12, 2022 by ACG_Pike

[[CPT]Crunch]

McDonald, phooey, I'd rather compare it to a good whiskey and what the nightly cost of that would be, than its a no brainer.

[Gambit21]

Icky - I don’t eat McDonalds because it’s utter crap.

 

Please reform your analogy using Red Robin instead.

 

Thank you.

[IckyATLAS]

1 hour ago, Gambit21 said:

Icky - I don’t eat McDonalds because it’s utter crap.

 

Please reform your analogy using Red Robin instead.

 

Thank you.

Red Robin you say,  why not, the problem is that it is US only maybe there will be one franchise in Canada. McDonalds being a global worldwide known brand it is more adapted to a very international forum. Now regarding quality of the food I would agree with you, it is not of the level of quality of IL2. So let's take something better like Red Robin, but then the average meal price will also increase and it will make the analogy even more so to the advantage of IL2. 

Edited March 12, 2022 by IckyATLAS

[Gambit21]

IL2 is a steal without a doubt.

 

[Knarley-Bob]

Comparing IL-2 to McDonalds food is NOT setting the bar very high........?

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Not sure that analogy works either. Red Robin has some of the best fast burgers out there but the service is atrocious. I’ve almost never NOT been comped a meal or desert to make up for staff.

[Gambit21]

2 hours ago, II/JG17_HerrMurf said:

Not sure that analogy works either. Red Robin has some of the best fast burgers out there but the service is atrocious. I’ve almost never NOT been comped a meal or desert to make up for staff.

 

 You just have a $hitty Red Robin I guess - ours is stellar.

 

Of course the best burgers are the smaller, non-national chain, mom and pop places. Still - RR is pretty damn good.

[Drum]

True, unlike other games we buy & play through a few times (if that), this one generates a unique experience each playing.  Plus, all parts of it continue to evolve as new features get added or tweaked.

[PatrickAWlson]

11 hours ago, unlikely_spider said:

Not to complicate the situation, but what if you choose a Happy Meal that contains direct competition to the IL-2 series and my expenditure of free time?

 

That would look good in the Moscow campaign

[Jaegermeister]

6 hours ago, Gambit21 said:

Icky - I don’t eat McDonalds because it’s utter crap.

 

Please reform your analogy using Red Robin instead.

 

Thank you.

 

We don't even have Red Robin here... or White Castle.

 

I think you better go with Chic-fil-a in my neck of the woods...

[Cravis]

Hot Take:

 

In Assetto Corsa the dream pack costs 7€ and it includes 6 cars. That puts the car price on average at 1,16€.

A collector aircraft in IL2 costs ~19,99€ or in other terms 17x times the costs of AC car.

And that is actually a favourable comparison because AC also has e.g. the Porsche pack III for 5€ with 8 cars... a car there clocks in at a whoping 0,62€.

 

1c charges 49€ standard or 79€ deluxe for Stalingrad despite the game being in PC game terms about 1000 years old (2013).

AC was released in the same year and only costs 19,99€.

 

Just saying.

Edited March 13, 2022 by Cravis

[Strewth]

24 minutes ago, Cravis said:

Hot Take:

 

In Assetto Corsa the dream pack costs 7€ and it includes 6 cars. That puts the car price on average at 1,16€.

A collector aircraft in IL2 costs ~19,99€ or in other terms 17x times the costs of AC car.

And that is actually a favourable comparison because AC also has e.g. the Porsche pack III for 5€ with 8 cars... a car there clocks in at a whoping 0,62€.

 

1c charges 49€ standard or 79€ deluxe for Stalingrad despite the game being in PC game terms about 1000 years old (2013).

AC was released in the same year and only costs 19,99€.

 

Just saying.

I am not interested in playing Assetto Corsa.

I love playing IL-2 and happy with the price per hour in any currency.

Just saying.

 

[Beebop]

4 hours ago, Strewth said:

I am not interested in playing Assetto Corsa.

Me neither.  Besides, loadouts in Assetto Corsa are limited.  No large caliber guns, rockets or bombs (unless you get the 'Global Terrorism' add-on) and the flight model sucks.

[Voyager]

I think Jason has said that they make most of their money during the sales, but they don't if they simply lower the price to the sale price. 

 

I believe the way it ends up is people may buy a current module as full price, then grab the rest of the series when they're on discount. 

 

Now, if you've only got $1k income per month, and you are not living with your parents still, you probably need to focus on other priorities than flight sims, especially with 3D cards still running over $1k. Your best bet there is something really light weight like Il-2 1946 or even Tiny Combat Arena. 

[Cpt_Siddy]

Id like to have a option to have some sort of crowd funded piggy bank for projects, something like exploratory fund for hire person to gather data for a say, mig alley.

I got no problem dropping few buck/month to something like that, and if we get even, say ~500 people invested, you can hire one person doing just that project. 

 

Considering that TAW server gets 50+ people contributing, i am sure there will be enough enthusiast that would support this. 

 

Edited March 13, 2022 by Cpt_Siddy

[CountZero]

33 minutes ago, Cpt_Siddy said:

Id like to have a option to have some sort of crowd funded piggy bank for projects, something like exploratory fund for hire person to gather data for a say, mig alley.

I got no problem dropping few buck/month to something like that, and if we get even, say ~500 people invested, you can hire one person doing just that project. 

 

Considering that TAW server gets 50+ people contributing, i am sure there will be enough enthusiast that would support this. 

 

oh that worked great for DCS, also you realy belive there is 500 ppl who will give them each 4-5k$ just so they make Korea DLC or any other DLC ? 

 

Regarding pricing now, if its on sale its ok for older DLCs, someone who wonts it now when sale is not on will probably just buy one DLC for full price and rest later at this point. No need to complicate it more then how it is now.

 

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

1 hour ago, Cpt_Siddy said:

Id like to have a option to have some sort of crowd funded piggy bank for projects, something like exploratory fund for hire person to gather data for a say, mig alley.

I got no problem dropping few buck/month to something like that, and if we get even, say ~500 people invested, you can hire one person doing just that project. 

 

Considering that TAW server gets 50+ people contributing, i am sure there will be enough enthusiast that would support this. 

 

Jason stated from the very beginning that there will never be a crowd funded option for BoX. A decade in, they still have the same overall business model. It seems to be working out for all concerned.

Edited March 13, 2022 by II/JG17_HerrMurf

[DragonDaddy]

I prefer to look at value instead of price. A sim that is continually maintained, upgraded, repaired and seriously considers, and implements, user feedback is more than worth what I pay for it. This forum also adds much value. 

[Guest deleted@83466]

I seem to remember paying like 60 bucks for some computer games around 1990 or before.  Here is a catalog from SSI that shows some of their games ranging from $30 to $60, back then:  https://archive.org/details/ssi-game-catalog-1989-1990/page/13/mode/2up

 

60 bucks for Gettysburg and 50 for Pool of Radiance in 1989?  Wow.  And they would run on a 64k computer and fit on a single floppy.  In other words, prices for entertainment software seems to have dropped significantly in relation to actual content.

 

[Lolrawr]

5 minutes ago, SeaSerpent said:

prices for entertainment software seems to have dropped significantly in relation to actual content.

 

Competition. Sad that in fly sim there is little to none.

[Cravis]

3 hours ago, Beebop said:

the flight model sucks.

 

On the other hand it features by far the superior ground handling.

 

It always strikes me as odd when people go out of their way to reason the pricing of products from a company they are not directly attached to when it is pointed out that similar products (e.g. a simulation with appeal to competitive MP) of other similarly sized companies offer comparable quality in their field for a considerable smaller price.

The only thing that probably really matters here is the market size. As a racing simulation AC has a wider audience appeal and probably recouped its development investment considerably faster than IL2GB.

 

Still the fact Stalingrad is in 2022, 9 years after release, sold for full price should raise eyebrows, I'm sure it does so for anyone outside this niche market.

Considering that Stalingrad is on Steam necessary to even run the "addons" it is limiting player access by an, granted at surface level, unnecessary price gauge.

 

I'm very new to IL2GB. I have owned IL2CloD since release and it was when released a garbage product. Yes I know different developer. The point is CloD to me was associated with the IL2 brand and made sure I didn't even look at IL2:GB until recently because it soured my first experience with the brand.

Luckily when I got interested again recently (Growling Sidewinder videos are to thank for that) the Christmas sale was happening. I at first only bought Bodenplatte because I'm mostly interested in the western front and late war. It was rather cheap and not that old. I thought it should give me a pretty recent and up-to-date idea what IL2GB is about. I liked what I saw so I quickly decided to buy the "early access priced" Normandy and before the sale ended I just thought "fuck it" and bought the eastern front addons.

I think I paid 11,99€ for Stalingrad, 19,99€ for Moscow, Kuban and Bodenplatte all in the Deluxe version. 

I find baffling to charge full price for a digital product that has been on the market for almost a decade. It has long recouped its investment and such pricing to me appears untrustworthy.

 

As mentioned here they make most profit during a sale when the advertise discounts of 66 to 85%. Those giant discounts are only possible because their default prices are ridiculously high when considering the age of the product.

Considering the aforementioned price of AC at 19,99€ and the 85% sales price of 11,99€ for Deluxe Stalingrad or the 19,99€ for every other Deluxe version it very much appears that the sales prices are the actual prices and the "regular" prices only exist to manipulate people into purchases by e.g. FOMO during a sale.

I find this manipulation of the audience rather disgusting. Yes it works, it is still appalling state of affairs.

 

I'm actually interested in the Hurricane Mk II and Bf109 G-6 but of course I'll wait for a sale precisely for that reason.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

It is still fair to purchase the older titles at full price and the discounts at sale are truly an outstanding value. All of the content is continuously updated. The current “stand alone” Stalingrad bears little technical resemblance to the Stalingrad we early adopters purchased in EA. Even visually, other than the ground textures, it is vastly improved as well. Not only that but the older titles will continue to evolve with the newer modules as well.

Edited March 13, 2022 by II/JG17_HerrMurf

[LLv24_SukkaVR]

I've spent 811,80€ (not included BoBP and TC gifted to a friend) on this game in 8 years, played 1772 hours so i've paid so far 0,45€/h for top quality entertainment. Worth every penny.

[Lolrawr]

3 hours ago, Cravis said:

I find baffling to charge full price for a digital product that has been on the market for almost a decade.

 

The age of the product doesn't matter as long as it is updated. In this case, what other option do we have to fly LaGG 3? BoS is current content for anybody interested in flying any aircraft or on the Stalingrad map included in the module.

Battle of Stalingrad is on par with other releases in most of the terms, at least the ones that matter. It has the same flight model fidelity, and it runs on the same engine and same client as the rest of the series. I do not think that BoS or BoM should cost any less or any more than any other module with the same amount of content.

 

And no, i don't think that the lower res plane models (if any) justify a lower cost, most players i think use 1080p still, so 4k LaGG 3 wouldn't mean anything for them.

 

EDIT:

Comparing IL2 with other "similar" games, i.e WoT and WT in which a single model of a unit costs 40-50$, IL2 is a bloody steal. Even the collector planes at 20$ a piece is cheap considering the industry standards of today.

I am not a fanboy of IL2, i have many criticisms against it, but price wise it is a FAIR product, and with discounts it's a shame to not buy. 

Edited March 13, 2022 by Lolrawr

[dburne]

IL-2 prices regardless of whether it is a sale or full price provide incredible bang for the buck results. I have purchased everything afaik and for the entertainment I get out of it on a weekly basis it is an incredible value. I spend way more eating out every week than I do on this sim.

[IckyATLAS]

14 hours ago, Cravis said:

Hot Take:

 

In Assetto Corsa the dream pack costs 7€ and it includes 6 cars. That puts the car price on average at 1,16€.

A collector aircraft in IL2 costs ~19,99€ or in other terms 17x times the costs of AC car.

And that is actually a favourable comparison because AC also has e.g. the Porsche pack III for 5€ with 8 cars... a car there clocks in at a whoping 0,62€.

 

1c charges 49€ standard or 79€ deluxe for Stalingrad despite the game being in PC game terms about 1000 years old (2013).

AC was released in the same year and only costs 19,99€.

 

Just saying.

I do not know what is the complexity of the Assetto Corsa car model and physical dynamic model, but yes at first glance it seems cheap compared to IL2.

At a second glance I would make three comments:

 

1) I suppose that the customer market size for Assetto Corsa is probably 100 fold the customer market size for IL2.  Car racing is extremely popular and everybody can own a car so there is a kind of proximity also with kids that drive race cars before they can buy one. Not me but a lot of people dream having a Porsche a Ferrari, or whatever other known brand car, not many dream having a P51 or FW190 to fly. And driving a car is much simpler than flying those planes if you play it in a realistic mode where you have to control everything. This much bigger market for car racing means that you do have economies of scale and hence lower unit costs compared to IL2.

 

2) As the Car sim games are popular you have more competition and this drives prices down. You have much less this kind of competition again because it is a niche market. So there is a premium to pay to get this kind of product otherwise nobody will make it.

 

3) You mention Stalingrad as about 1'000 years old and I do not agree on this. All improvements that you had all over the years have always been implemented on all the BOX games. You always get the last iteration of the engine and all improvements in visual quality, effects etc. So in fact the game is brand new, and deserves its price.

 

 

[Noisemaker]

I bought Aces of the Pacific, in what, 1992 or something for $45 which adjusted for inflation is (according to Google) $91 in today's money.  The product worked briefly, but after a week, with no system changes simply refused to launch.  No support from Sierra, no support from the local shop when I tried to return the game.  Fast forward to 2022, we have a company that continues to support and update a product from 2013, with amazing improvements with each and every update.  Every bug that I've discovered, I've reported, and that bug has been received, acknowledged, and recorded for correction, and the vast majority were quickly dealt with.  I think I get what I pay for here, finally.