How to exploit superiority against BF 109 F4 ?

[Daliaraptor]

Hey Fellows

 

I train to fly my La-5. And the best way to do that is singelplayer at first i think.

So i startet a head to head fight with moderate enemy on 1000m altitude.

So first i allways have to set all things to the right position. Mixture, Coolers, Trimm etc.

When im finish with that, my plane is allready burning or at least looks like a swiss chees. Those Ai is merciless and verry accurate in terms of aming...

So i decidet to start at 1000m and the 109 on 500m so i have more energy and time to prepare my plane for fight.

But even with this advantage the 109 outruns my La-5 in a instant. I turn around with litle climbing. But the 109 has allready turned and beginns

to climbe and attack and shoots at me with 80% probability to send me to the ground.

I dont get it. I feel like this 109 are cheating... I can outrun the 109 at levelflight on ground but as soon as i try to turn or climb ill loose.

I have experience in CloD and Rise of Flight. So i know about saving energy and just gently make turns to take the energy with me.

Can it be that in altitudes about 1000m the La-5 has no chance at all?

 

Does somebody can help me to nail down those Messerschmitt's

Tactics, Settings or anything that helps...

 

Thanks

 

[ShamrockOneFive]

I don't have access to the La-5 but I have been training in a similar way with the LaGG-3 and Yak-1 and unless the AI is set to a higher level it should be no problem in theory.

 

It's a matter of energy and angles and some practice to try and get it nailed down. I'm not sure if I can give you a play by play with every single specific detail.

 

Basically I operate like this. If I can gain more altitude/energy then I will. When I reach the merge and the 109 and I can potentially fire or pass by each other I go for a slight nose down angle and build speed for the next move. The next move is usually an Immelman which will bleed the speed I built up but put me in position for the next turn. This is where angles come in. You can't fight WWII air combat in two dimensions. Use the angles as best as possible to give you the most speed and the best firing potential. Then by now hopefully you're closer to being on his six and in good position for gunnery.

 

After all of that... effective gunnery is important. If you can't dispatch your enemy within a few seconds of being in firing solution then you need more practice. That's my feeling. The longer you spend trying to get the right shot the worse off you are both from his ability to perform defensively and in training for team combat where an enemy aircraft may be aiming for you.

[=38=Tatarenko]

Dalia the La-5 seems to bleed speed very fast the moment the slats open. You have to keep the speed up high doing vertical loops with only gentle pulling which is only possible if you start at least 1000m above the Messer. Otherwise any competent Messer will just eat you. At the moment the La-5 is not a good fighter except for 600kmh attack runs.

And if he does get behind you (a way back) try to ignore him and go for the next Messer in front of you. Don't pull into a hard horizontal turn.

Not sure why the Messer slats enable it to hang in the air like a feather but the Lavka slats make it hang in the air like a brick.

[Seren77]

I don't have access to the La-5 but I have been training in a similar way with the LaGG-3 and Yak-1 and unless the AI is set to a higher level it should be no problem in theory.

 

 

 

Everyone has access to LA-5 until full release I thought. I've certainly been flying it and don't own it.

[Daliaraptor]

Dalia the La-5 seems to bleed speed very fast the moment the slats open. You have to keep the speed up high doing vertical loops with only gentle pulling which is only possible if you start at least 1000m above the Messer. Otherwise any competent Messer will just eat you. At the moment the La-5 is not a good fighter except for 600kmh attack runs.

And if he does get behind you (a way back) try to ignore him and go for the next Messer in front of you. Don't pull into a hard horizontal turn.

Not sure why the Messer slats enable it to hang in the air like a feather but the Lavka slats make it hang in the air like a brick.

Thanks to all for helping. @Tatarenko. Thats actually what i wanted to hear from somebody else. I begun to think that i lost all my flight skills So i try another Plane. Which would you recommend so far? See you guys in MP when im ready

Edited July 17, 2014 by Daliaraptor

[FuriousMeow]

Yak-1, it won't be easy but it will be far easier than the LaGG-3 or La-5.

[=38=Tatarenko]

Yes, Yak for sure.

 

Have just tried La-5 v F4 multiple times. I can always win with a 1500m alt advantage but I reckon that would be true in any plane, even LaGG-3 or I-16. Less than that and you risk it turning into a series of head-ons and that AI can shoot!

BTW the La-5 has a boost button, unlike the other 2 fighters. Doesn't do much but it's something. Map it and use it under 2000m.

[Daliaraptor]

Allready used the Boost. Strange thing... All the time. Had no overheating issues... But it seems it just give some boost in ground level flight.

 

Edit: The 2nd Gear is also something i have the feeling it dont work properly ???

Edited July 17, 2014 by Daliaraptor

[LLv34_Flanker]

S!

 

 La-5 boost does not work/give much power above 2000m and should not be operated there either. La-5 is best for slashing attacks and only short turns so speed does not bleed off. With Yak you can do just about anything except climb with the Bf109.

[=38=Tatarenko]

The 2nd Gear is also something i have the feeling it dont work properly ???

 

 

The 2nd gear needs to change at 2400m instead of 1600m on the other engines.

[Gambit21]

As much as I want the La-5 to be the answer for fighting the Messer's - it's really the Yak at this point as others have said.

At least with the Yak you can sucker an undisciplined Messer pilot into a knife fight. With the La-5 you really don't have any

recourse other than to bounce them from above. I do like the La though despite all that - good for when I'm in the mood for 

even more of a challenge.

[=38=Tatarenko]

Just tried same bounce mission over and over with different planes. La-5 is easier than LaGG-3 (just) but Yak is very easy indeed.

 

Only advantage LaGG-3 has is filling up the 23mm VYa with HE shells and going for head ons. The Messers don't do well in that scenario.

 

So, result not very surprising:

 

1. Yak-1

2. La-5

3. LaGG-3

 

Having said that, this is 1v1. Yesterday I was doing 8v8 over and over and the La-5's consistently had more left vs 8 Messers than the Yaks managed. And in most fights (90%) the Russians won. The AI messers get dragged down into low fights quite easily. I was flying Russian always but I don't think that counts for much!

[ShamrockOneFive]

Everyone has access to LA-5 until full release I thought. I've certainly been flying it and don't own it.

 

Nope... I get an error message (just tried it again) saying I don't have access to this aircraft.

[GrieverGriever_XIV]

Been playing with the La-5 quite a bit, and although I still think it to be an awesome plane, its a shame that the only way to compete in multiplayer is either with the Yak or the 109... Kinda wish there was more options

[Gambit21]

You can use the La-5 just fine in multiplayer - don't misunderstand.

You just can't get into a knife fight with a 109. Stay high, stay fast, pounce when you have the advantage - that's all.

[GrieverGriever_XIV]

Nope... I get an error message (just tried it again) saying I don't have access to this aircraft.

That's strange, I too havent purchased it and have standard edition and still have access to it in single player and multiplayer...

[=38=Tatarenko]

You can use the La-5 just fine in multiplayer - don't misunderstand.

You just can't get into a knife fight with a 109. Stay high, stay fast, pounce when you have the advantage - that's all.

unfortunately the messer goes high and fast just as well

[Matt]

The 2nd gear needs to change at 2400m instead of 1600m on the other engines.

Up to 4000 meters, the La-5 is faster in 1st gear. On the Yak-1 and LaGG-3 you should switch gears around 2000 meters.

 

If you're alone, the Yak-1 is currently the better choice. But the higher the number of capable wingmen, the better the La-5 becomes imho,  because its higher speed and climbrate becomes more important than the better low speed handling of the Yak-1.

[BeastyBaiter]

The AI is impossible to sneak up on. That fact makes any hit and run fighters basically useless against them (La-5 and Fw-190). Having friendly AI doesn't really help either, since all it knows is climb or turn. The La-5 is the one plane in the game where it's actually far easier to kill a human with than an AI. I expect the Fw-190 will be similar in that regard. I also agree with the above about the Yak being the better solo plane while the La-5 is the better squad plane.

[Pringliano]

Also, don't forget to set your fuel bellow 100%. I usually set mine at 30% - makes quite a difference at the MP serves and QMs...

[=AVG=Zombie]

Cant wait for the first couple of campaigns, some bombers with a mix of yaks and la5's. Will be glorious!

[Gambit21]

unfortunately the messer goes high and fast just as well

Of course, but the higher you go the less likely you are to run into co-altitude hostiles.

[Trinkof]

I personaly have been shot down quite a couple of time by La5 lately in MP. The guns with HE ammos seem really awesome.

I guess I am still an easy target for veteran player (coming from an infamous arcadish simulator ... WT... wich made me invest in "real" flight sim lately)

I have also the feeling that it is very capable to out maneuvre everything at high speed (I often see La5 doing crazy turn as long as they are fast) 
So I guess it is the perfect plane to shoot down quickly rookies like me who get trapped in low altitude fighting (too often  ), and will probably become an awesome He111 killer with the HE ammo

Somehow it feels "historicaly accurate", regarding the fact (if I am correct) that early La5 were escorted by Yak. 

The few time I flew it, I had the feeling that this plane is fast to be burnt (I tend to always fall in flames, compared to Yak or 109, wich seems to sustain much more damages, and burn far less) 

[Duckman]

The AI is impossible to sneak up on. That fact makes any hit and run fighters basically useless against them (La-5 and Fw-190).

 

Less than that and you risk it turning into a series of head-ons and that AI can shoot!

 

I'm kind of disturbed to read the above, because sniper accuracy head-on and rear warning radar were two of the biggest complaints against the AI in Il2 and now it seems they are appearing again?!?

 

I understand AI programming isn't easy, but those two things don't seem impossible to fix and should be a priority since they are huge hindrances to realistic tactics. If some people absolutely need to fly aganist omiscient sniper bots to prove their manliness then please make it optional.

 

Another note about tactics: the 1 vs 1 fights that tend to be discussed on forums are of course not very historical (at least not after 1916). 2 vs 2 or 4 vs 4 is recommended if you want to talk realism.

Edited July 20, 2014 by Duckman

[ShamrockOneFive]

That's strange, I too havent purchased it and have standard edition and still have access to it in single player and multiplayer...

Lucky. I still don't have access to it. Tried a few times.

 

Oh well.. I'm going to have to wait till it goes on sale sometime. I think $20 is too steep for a single piece of playable content.