Questions

[Jackfraser24]

Hey guys sorry to open up another discussion but another one that I had started some time ago wouldn’t seem to let me add this question in.

 

Why was the Me 210 included into IL2 1946? I ask this because it wasn’t built and completed in large numbers (about 90 or so) and 592 or so were incomplete. 
 

Also, why was the Fw 200 included?

 

And the Ta 152-C variant? 
 

What was the difference between the French MS 406/410 and the plane designated MS “Morko”?

 

What was the difference between the Fw 190 D9 standard and D9 Late?

 

The Fw 190 A5 and A5165 ATA?

 

The Bf 109 G6 standard/late and AS?

The Bf 109 K4 and K4 C3 (other than the difference in fuel used) 

 

The Hurricane Mk 2 Standard and Mk 2 mod?

 

Thanks

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 26, 2024 by Jackfraser24

[Elem]

May be best to post this here...

 

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/forum/123-general-discussion/

[JtD]

 

Why was the Me 210 included into IL2 1946?

 

Public demand, because it's cool. And iIrc it was a mod, made by someone in his spare time as a hobby to have his favorite plane in his favorite game. To the benefit of all.

 

 

Also, why was the Fw 200 included?

 

Same as above.

 

 

And the Ta 152-C variant?

 

There was a 1946 add-on which only featured post war and late war designs, and the Ta152-C is by far not the most bizarre choice.

 

 

What was the difference between the French MS 406/410 and the plane designated MS “Morko”?

 

You can check the in game object viewer. It gives a lot of info on most planes. The Mörkö Morane received a Klimov 105 engine upgrade as a field mod by the Finnish, with a lot more power and resulting improved performance.

 

 

What was the difference between the Fw 190 D9 standard and D9 Late?

 

The late version has MW50 injection and higher boost, which gives it more power and considerably better performance. The late version is characteristic for 1945, the standard one for the fourth quarter of 1944.

 

 

The Fw 190 A5 and A5165 ATA?

 

The A5165ATA has the engine rated at 1.65ata in 1st charger gear, the standard one only 1.42ata. This increased boost results in higher power and better performance at low altitude. The 1.65ata version was historically used mostly as a fighter bomber.

 

 

The Bf 109 G6 standard/late and AS?

 

The AS version has the DB605AS engine, which has a higher full throttle altitude and thus better performance up high, worse performance down low. The game had this messed up and the AS originally had MW50 injection on a standard DB605A engine, making it more powerful down low and the same up high. How it is in your game depends on what version/mod you use.

 

 

The Bf 109 K4 and K4 C3 (other than the difference in fuel used)

 

The use of C3 fuel permits a higher boost and thus gives 200hp more power at low to medium altitude. It also used to suffer from a penalty for poor build quality, so that the C3 had worse performance at high altitude.

 

 

The Hurricane Mk 2 Standard and Mk 2 mod?

 

Soviet guns instead of Browning machine guns.

 

I again recommend you check the object viewer, it is interesting and informative, in particular for someone who appears very interested in the aircraft.

 

And yes, post 1946 questions in the 1946 section. I guess this topic will be moved there soon, too.

Edited March 1, 2022 by JtD

[Avimimus]

Note that the Me-210 in Il-1946 is actually the Hungarian version I believe... so that might be part of it.

 

The FW-200 was modelled by third parties for Maddox Games (so it was a donation). It made for an interesting aircraft to encounter going to and from naval operations (or as a transport aircraft). There was a time where Maddox Games was pretty happy to incorporate third party models if they met a certain quality standards - he even said a Nikitin-Sevchenko IS-4 could be included if someone modelled it!

 

Ta-152C variant was for the '1946' expansion and used alongside various other experimental jet and piston fighters (e.g. La-7R and Mig I-250 were built for that scenario). The Ta-152H was included earlier I believe - and that one was harder to explain as it was only the second last Team Daidalos patch that actually fixed the high altitude flight model calculations! They are fixed, by the way, which is extraordinary - everyone should boot up their old copies to try some very high altitude intercepts in the Ta-152H etc.

 

I think JtD covered the rest.

[Jackfraser24]

4 hours ago, JtD said:

 

Public demand, because it's cool. And iIrc it was a mod, made by someone in his spare time as a hobby to have his favorite plane in his favorite game. To the benefit of all.

 

 

Same as above.

 

 

There was a 1946 add-on which only featured post war and late war designs, and the Ta152-C is by far not the most bizarre choice.

 

 

You can check the in game object viewer. It gives a lot of info on most planes. The Mörkö Morane received a Klimov 105 engine upgrade as a field mod by the Finnish, with a lot more power and resulting improved performance.

 

 

The late version has MW50 injection and higher boost, which gives it more power and considerably better performance. The late version is characteristic for 1945, the standard one for the fourth quarter of 1944.

 

 

The A5165ATA has the engine rated at 1.65ata in 1st charger gear, the standard one only 1.42ata. This increased boost results in higher power and better performance at low altitude. The 1.65ata version was historically used mostly as a fighter bomber.

 

 

The AS version has the DB605AS engine, which has a higher full throttle altitude and thus better performance up high, worse performance down low. The game had this messed up and the AS originally had MW50 injection on a standard DB605A engine, making it more powerful down low and the same up high. How it is in your game depends on what version/mod you use.

 

 

The use of C3 fuel permits a higher boost and thus gives 200hp more power at low to medium altitude. It also used to suffer from a penalty for poor build quality, so that the C3 had worse performance at high altitude.

 

 

Soviet guns instead of Browning machine guns.

 

I again recommend you check the object viewer, it is interesting and informative, in particular for someone who appears very interested in the aircraft.

 

And yes, post 1946 questions in the 1946 section. I guess this topic will be moved there soon, too.

Thank you very much JtD

2 hours ago, Avimimus said:

Note that the Me-210 in Il-1946 is actually the Hungarian version I believe... so that might be part of it.

 

The FW-200 was modelled by third parties for Maddox Games (so it was a donation). It made for an interesting aircraft to encounter going to and from naval operations (or as a transport aircraft). There was a time where Maddox Games was pretty happy to incorporate third party models if they met a certain quality standards - he even said a Nikitin-Sevchenko IS-4 could be included if someone modelled it!

 

Ta-152C variant was for the '1946' expansion and used alongside various other experimental jet and piston fighters (e.g. La-7R and Mig I-250 were built for that scenario). The Ta-152H was included earlier I believe - and that one was harder to explain as it was only the second last Team Daidalos patch that actually fixed the high altitude flight model calculations! They are fixed, by the way, which is extraordinary - everyone should boot up their old copies to try some very high altitude intercepts in the Ta-152H etc.

 

I think JtD covered the rest.

And thank you too Avimimus

[Avimimus]

Any time!

[Pozsgay]

The Me 210 Ca-1 was a built in Hungary ("a" stands for "ausländisch" - foreign production). It had the same long fuselage like the 410 models and wing slats, so the the stability problem of the earlier models were solved. It had modified cooling system for better performance. It was like a transition model between 210 and 410. As Hungary was not bombed until April 1944, production quality was great too.

And it was COOL  (the drawing is from my upcoming comic The Old Tiger)
 

[Jackfraser24]

I’d like to ask another question. Why didn’t 1CGS and 777 studios continue development on Rise of Flight so it could include WWII aircraft, maps, pilot careers, etc…? The game engine would have been compatible for it, wouldn’t it? They could have even done a Battle of Britain instead of doing Cliffs of Dover, an initial failure that could have been avoided all together (however, I’d like to make clear that I do not dislike for Cliffs of Dover). Wouldn’t it have made more sense to keep developing Rise of Flight, since it would have been cheaper to do as opposed to starting from scratch again? Why was Great Battles done instead?

 

This isn’t meant to come across as a complaint. It’s not. I’m genuinely curious why development stopped on Rise of Flight. 
 

Another thing, in IL-2 1946, in quick mission builder, what was the Slovakian map based on? A battle? A wider campaign? And what year and what month was it based around?

Edited August 14, 2022 by Jackfraser24

[Missionbug]

1 hour ago, Jackfraser24 said:

 

 

 I’m genuinely curious why development stopped on Rise of Flight. 
 

 

 

Il-2 Great battles is built on the original Rise of Flight engine, much modified granted but nonetheless from that sim so we have come forward from WWI and with F.C. gone back via WWII.

 

The team were given the option to take over development of a 1C asset for a WWII flight sim and so here we are, R.O.F was imported into it more or less to make F.C, at least the aircraft were, suitably updated.

 

Take care and be safe.

 

Wishing you all the very best, Pete.

Edited August 14, 2022 by Missionbug

[Jackfraser24]

37 minutes ago, Missionbug said:

 

Il-2 Great battles is built on the original Rise of Flight engine, much modified granted but nonetheless from that sim so we have come forward from WWI and with F.C. gone back via WWII.

 

The team were given the option to take over development of a 1C asset for a WWII flight sim and so here we are, R.O.F was imported into it more or less to make F.C, at least the aircraft were, suitably updated.

 

Take care and be safe.

 

Wishing you all the very best, Pete.

Thanks. You too

1 minute ago, Jackfraser24 said:

Thanks. You too

 

1 minute ago, Jackfraser24 said:

Thanks. You too

Would it be allowed by the original developers for third party developers to develop it further? Kind of like what Team Fusion did for Clod? Rise of Flight is a good game, and I think it has massive potential for further development. They could do Spanish Civil War or Sini-Japanese War scenarios. Or if it is sold to career developers, they could do Battle of Britain or North African scenarios, with no conditions restricting what they could and could not develop. Just thinking out loud.

[Enceladus828]

On 8/14/2022 at 3:00 AM, Jackfraser24 said:

Would it be allowed by the original developers for third party developers to develop it further? Kind of like what Team Fusion did for Clod? Rise of Flight is a good game, and I think it has massive potential for further development.

Personally, if the devs in 2017 really wanted to return to WW1, they should have just done that instead of making FC. However, the team has stated in the past that although the IL-2 GBs game engine (Digital Warfare) has been enhanced so much since the release of BoS that by late 2017 it's a different game engine from the RoF engine (Digital Nature), the two engines are too similar to one another to give the RoF engine to a team of modders. For the CloD engine, it was so different (though inherited much of the code from the 1946 engine) from the IL-2 1946 engine that 1C Maddox was able to give the code to Team Daidalos in 2009 while they developed CloD.

 

I've mainly gone to WoFF but still come back to RoF when I want to fly the Handley Page, seaplanes and Russian planes. Here are some good RoF mods by VonS: RoF United Ed. AI/DM & Other Mods. (Consolidated) - ROF File Announcements - CombatACE

 

On 8/14/2022 at 3:00 AM, Jackfraser24 said:

They could do Spanish Civil War or Sini-Japanese War scenarios. Or if it is sold to career developers, they could do Battle of Britain or North African scenarios, with no conditions restricting what they could and could not develop. Just thinking out loud.

Well considering the fact that it took the 3rd party team Ugra Media 2 years (in a non-COVID world) to make FC1 which consisted of just remaking planes and a map in this game (essentially typing up a handwritten document), and it's been over a year since they started making the C-47 flyable and it's still not flyable -- they just have to make a cockpit and nothing else -- then that goes to show that having 3rd party teams do what you suggested would not work out the way you intend. In 2018 the devs were working on 3 projects at once -- BoBP, TC1 and FC1 -- and that greatly exhausted them to the point where they won't do that again.

[Jackfraser24]

6 hours ago, Enceladus said:

Personally, if the devs in 2017 really wanted to return to WW1, they should have just done that instead of making FC. However, the team has stated in the past that although the IL-2 GBs game engine (Digital Warfare) has been enhanced so much since the release of BoS that by late 2017 it's a different game engine from the RoF engine (Digital Nature), the two engines are too similar to one another to give the RoF engine to a team of modders. For the CloD engine, it was so different (though inherited much of the code from the 1946 engine) from the IL-2 1946 engine that 1C Maddox was able to give the code to Team Daidalos in 2009 while they developed CloD.

 

I've mainly gone to WoFF but still come back to RoF when I want to fly the Handley Page, seaplanes and Russian planes. Here are some good RoF mods by VonS: RoF United Ed. AI/DM & Other Mods. (Consolidated) - ROF File Announcements - CombatACE

 

Well considering the fact that it took the 3rd party team Ugra Media 2 years (in a non-COVID world) to make FC1 which consisted of just remaking planes and a map in this game (essentially typing up a handwritten document), and it's been over a year since they started making the C-47 flyable and it's still not flyable -- they just have to make a cockpit and nothing else -- then that goes to show that having 3rd party teams do what you suggested would not work out the way you intend. In 2018 the devs were working on 3 projects at once -- BoBP, TC1 and FC1 -- and that greatly exhausted them to the point where they won't do that again.

Are they leaving Tank Crew? Or are they taking a hiatus until FC3 is done (when their Western Front plans will be completed)?

 

Cheers.

[MisterSmith]

All of the above are being worked on. Enceladus was indicating his opinion is they (likely) will not take on three full modules at once, going forward.

 

Smith

[BraveSirRobin]

On 8/14/2022 at 6:00 AM, Jackfraser24 said:

 

Would it be allowed by the original developers for third party developers to develop it further? 

Pretty much anything is allowed if you can write a big enough check.  The problem is that no one is going to write a check for a game that has already had almost all the possible revenue squeezed out of it.

[Enceladus828]

16 hours ago, BraveSirRobin said:

Pretty much anything is allowed if you can write a big enough check.  The problem is that no one is going to write a check for a game that has already had almost all the possible revenue squeezed out of it.

Well it costed Team Fusion $15,000 out of their own pockets to obtain the source code and become the official developers of the IL-2 Dover series, but before that it didn't require any $$, just skill and talent. If people are just making mods that are released in free patches then imo it probably doesn't require any fees, but if you're becoming the new developers and what you release is a payware product then fees are required. I don't know how much, if any, it costed TD to obtain the source code for IL-2 1946 but it was probably cheaper than what TFS had to pay; and IIRC 1C Maddox gave them the source code.

 

If the GBs engine had evolved so much that 1CGS could give a team the RoF code without revealing so much about the GBs engine then they would have done that. There are a lot of things which could have been improved upon if RoF like a few more planes, AI tweaks, making the wings so they're not like tissue paper, updated pilot models, further expanding the Eastern front, etc., etc.

Edited August 16, 2022 by Enceladus

[BraveSirRobin]

7 hours ago, Enceladus said:

 

If the GBs engine had evolved so much that 1CGS could give a team the RoF code without revealing so much about the GBs engine then they would have done that. 

 

It seems very unlikely that there is anyone interested in taking over that game.  Not to mention that 1CGS is probably not interested in helping anyone compete with FC.

[Jackfraser24]

Could IL-2 Great Battles become available on Play Station or X Box at this stage?

Would it be worth doing? Why/why not?

If it was going to be done, how long would it take?

How much work and effort would they have to put into it?

 

I think that it wouldn't be a bad idea for two reasons

• Further profit.
• If you wanted IL-2 to perform well, you wouldn't have to have an expensive gaming computer.

[Jackfraser24]

Advanced Quick Mission Builder

 

When I fly missions in AQMB, I can fly at almost anytime of day between dawn and dusk. But flying at night time isn’t an option. Why is that?

 

Also, when I fly, I am given an option to fly in a squadron of up to 6 planes. No more. In Cliffs of Dover, you could fly in a squadron of up to 16 if I am remembering correctly. Why such a difference?

 

If I was in a Luftwaffe Bf-109 G-6 on the Western Front in the default Western Front skin, why am I the only on in my squadron that is in that livery when the rest are in the default Eastern Front skins?
 

Lastly, would they change all that?

 

 

[Jackfraser24]

In a Typhoon, how do you get fast enough to shoot down a V-1 flying bomb?

[Jackfraser24]

How come the development of DCS has been going on for 15 years since it’s initial release in 2007 and that there is no end in sight, while post release Great Battles only began in 2013-14 and now there are rumours that work on IL-2 will stop in a few years? Does the game have far less potential in the future than DCS despite the fact that DCS was initially made with slightly more primitive coding technology? 
 

Thank you.
 

 

[Jackfraser24]

Are the German and Soviet AI in particular programmed to hate each other with a passion and stop at nothing to kill the player?

[Jackfraser24]

If you know in IL-2 1946 map of Slovakia, what is it based on?

• The Dnieper-Carpathian Offensive (Dec/24/1943 - Apr/17/1944)
• East Carpathian Offensive (Sep/8/1944 - Sep/28/1944)
• Some other offensive or campaign

[Enceladus828]

49 minutes ago, Jackfraser24 said:

If you know in IL-2 1946 map of Slovakia, what is it based on?

• The Dnieper-Carpathian Offensive (Dec/24/1943 - Apr/17/1944)
• East Carpathian Offensive (Sep/8/1944 - Sep/28/1944)
• Some other offensive or campaign

The Little War between Slovakia and Hungary in March 1939; Invasion of Poland in 1939 where the Slovaks also participated; Soviet advance towards Slovakia in July 1944; and 1944 Slovak Uprising by the Slovak Resistance to resist the German forces and overthrow the Tiso government which ended in failure.

 

Not to mean, the missions set on the Slovakia map added in IL-2 1946 Patch 4.09 do state what they're representing which if you want more info can look up online.

Edited February 27, 2024 by Enceladus828

[Jackfraser24]

Does anybody agree that there needs to be more P-40 family models in the game? I mean there doesn’t have to be all of them, but I have a few suggestions here. 

• Tomahawk Mk.I and Mk.II
• P-40K
• P-40M
• P-40N

And they all served on the Eastern Front.

[Traffic]

8 hours ago, Jackfraser24 said:

Does anybody agree that there needs to be more P-40 family models in the game? I mean there doesn’t have to be all of them, but I have a few suggestions here. 

• Tomahawk Mk.I and Mk.II
• P-40K
• P-40M
• P-40N

And they all served on the Eastern Front.

The P40N was the most produced variant and several thousand were lend leased to USSR, so, that would make a great mid war addition. 

[Jackfraser24]

Question. Did the Mc.205 have it's left wing longer than it's right wing? Or did Macchi give up on the idea after the Mc.202 showed flaws because of it? I've tried to research it but I have gotten mixed answers, some saying that it's left wing was longer than it's right one, while other sources said that both wings were of equal length.