Will we see a BF-109 G-10 or a G-14/AS in the future?

[Asgar]

48 minutes ago, Avimimus said:

Fw-190A4 and Bf-109G1 (or Bf-109E3?) for Leningrad (and possibly other aircraft such as the Ju-87B or Ju-87D-5).

Why would the Germans use the 109 G-1 on the eastern front? from what i remember the G models with uneven numbers are usually the same as the next higher even number but with pressurized cockpit for high altitudes. Don't see them using those at the eastern front at all. just wondering

Edited February 23, 2022 by Asgar
typo

[LukeFF]

28 minutes ago, Asgar said:

Why would the Germans use the 109 G-1 on the eastern front? from what i remember the G models with uneven numbers are usually the same as the next higher even number but with pressurized cockpit for high altitudes. Don't see them using those at the eastern front at all. just wondering

 

Yes, JG 54 had precisely 1 G-1 in the East. It's not exactly a ringing endorsement for it to be included. ? 

[Avimimus]

52 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

Yes, JG 54 had precisely 1 G-1 in the East. It's not exactly a ringing endorsement for it to be included. ? 

 

Okay - I confess - I wanted it for Dieppe, so gambled that a handful might've been used for high-altitude interception...

 

The Fw-190A4 is interesting though - as it has the short nose of the A-3 but the air-to-ground loads of the A-5... so it'd actually be quite distinct. I suppose Leningrad would be better off with a Fw-190A4, maybe another early 109 and one or two Finnish fighters... there are plenty of options in any case!

[CUJO_1970]

G1/G5 etc. odd number 109 are typically specialty aircraft for high alt, recon work etc. Could get C3, Methanol, GM-1 etc. This is a G5:

 

 

And this one:

 

[FTC_daHeld]

On 2/22/2022 at 12:13 AM, ThunderPanda said:

It would be very nice the see 109 G10 with the Erla variant that has the asymmetric 131 cowling with the crescent on the right side, the wide oil cooler and the absence of protrusions near the propeller hub unlike the K4. I have read somewhere that the G10 could use the DC engine setup like the K4 at some point, anyone more knowledgeable on this usage for specifically the G10? I have seen a performance chart somewhere that gave it similar speed to the G14 with the DC down low.

The G-10 was outset to receive the DB 605 D from the start, but production difficulties forced Erla to use ASM engines instead for the first aircraft. Nobody knows exactly how many of them had the older engine (normally used in the G-14/AS), but probably less than 100.

 

Later, only a few of them had DB 605 D-model engines. Rather, most of the G-10s, impartial of the manufacturer, got equipped with DB 605 ASB or ASC engines, refurbished DB 605 AS or ASM engines that had exactly the same power outputs as the DB 605 DB or DC engines, respectively.

 

It is widely belived that the Erla G-10 (ASC-equipped) were the fastest of the bunch due to the most streamlined airframes, making them the fastest G model airplanes, faster even than many K-4s, which often got fitted with a fixed tail wheel instead of the retractable one and without the Restabdeckungen for the wheel wells.

Unfortunately, it seems that most of the test data for the G-10s got lost or destroyed. What we know is that the power output of the high-altitude engines at lowers altitudes was a bit less (around 200 PS) than that of the comparable normal engines. 

 

So your assessment that at low altitude, the G-10 might have had similar performance to the normal G-14 might be correct, since the ASB or ASC engines had a higher overall power output, compensating for the weaker performance close to the ground. 
From 6 km up, they were extremely fast and powerful.

Edited May 5, 2022 by FTC_daHeld

[354thFG_Panda_]

1 hour ago, FTC_daHeld said:

The G-10 was outset to receive the DB 605 D from the start, but production difficulties forced Erla to use ASM engines instead for the first aircraft. Nobody knows exactly how many of them had the older engine (normally used in the G-14/AS), but probably less than 100.

 

Later, only a few of them had DB 605 D-model engines. Rather, most of the G-10s, impartial of the manufacturer, got equipped with DB 605 ASB or ASC engines, refurbished DB 605 AS or ASM engines that had exactly the same power outputs as the DB 605 DB or DC engines, respectively.

 

It is widely belived that the Erla G-10 (ASC-equipped) were the fastest of the bunch due to the most streamlined airframes, making them the fastest G model airplanes, faster even than many K-4s, which often got fitted with a fixed tail wheel instead of the retractable one and without the Restabdeckungen for the wheel wells.

Unfortunately, it seems that most of the test data for the G-10s got lost or destroyed. What we know is that the power output of the high-altitude engines at lowers altitudes was a bit less (around 200 PS) than that of the comparable normal engines. 

 

So your assessment that at low altitude, the G-10 might have had similar performance to the normal G-14 might be correct, since the ASB or ASC engines had a higher overall power output, compensating for the weaker performance close to the ground. 
From 6 km up, they were extremely fast and powerful.

Thanks for the explanation on engine usage and relative performance. I managed to find the chart from earlier

Edited May 5, 2022 by ThunderPanda

[CUJO_1970]

"...Peter Duttmann, a pilot with II./JG 52, still possesses at the time of writing a datasheet for the DB 605 D, which with the MW-50 injection, could produce 2,200 hp. He related to the author “With the auxiliary MW-50 installation in my Bf 109 G-10 in which I flew till the end of the war, I was able to save myself in all of the prickliest situations, of which there were several in April 1945. When no methanol was at hand, we used distilled water which functioned just as well, except that we were no able to fly high, otherwise the whole installation froze. In the sorties we flew short before the end of the war in low-level flight in the Cham area and east of Regensburg, we often met US fighters, and although they were superior to us in numerical terms, we were able to get away from them. The fastest Bf 109 I ever flew in, I handed over to the Americans on 8 May 1945 in Neubiberg”

 

“At the beginning of 1945 we received the Bf 109 G-10 with MW-50. In my first sortie with the Bf 109 G-10 on 27 January 1945, I was in an air battle with 20 Yak 9s – four German fighters versus 20 Russians. For almost 20 minutes, we fought a turbulent air battle over StuhlweiBenburg in which much shooting took place, but nothing was hit by either opponent. During the course of this engagement, I used my MW-50 for brief periods many times. The engine turned at higher revs and made such a noise that it made me believe it would explode at any moment. In fact, it transpired that by longer use of emergency power, the base of the pistons burned through. I used the ME-50 most unwillingly since, as I said, the engine was being taxed to its limits and made a peculiar sound which did not sound very reassuring. In dangerous air combat situations, however, you had a short-duration power increase available to you abd could raise your speed near the ground to a good 600 km/h (373mph)”. -Arno Fischer of I./JG 53

 

Nest of Eagles: Messerschmitt Production and Flight-testing at Regensburg 1936-1945, de P. Schmoll, Classic Publications (2010).

 

 

 

 

 

G14/AS - used extensively in Bodenplatte:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 6, 2022 by CUJO_1970

[Asgar]

I really want that AS engine for the G-14. And i guess we'll see the G-10 whenever they do a 44/45 Eastern front add on. I think that's what they're saving it for. Unless we get a Defense of the Reich with B-17, Lancaster, B-24s and Germany getting every heavy intercepter they ever created ? T-154, He 219 (with functioning radar of course) and maybe the He-177 so we can retaliate by bombing Britain on the BoN map. Am i dreaming again? damn ? 

[357th_KW]

We've generally seen collector planes announced after a BoX release.  I could easily see a G-6AS collector (G-6 late airframe, with the AS engine and MW as a mod) coming after BoN.  Maybe throw in an early D9 (without MW) or an early P-38J (no aileron boost or dive brakes) to round out the western front a bit.