Will we see a BF-109 G-10 or a G-14/AS in the future?

[AJSNIPES]

Just a thought I recently had I absolutely love the K4 but the 30MM with its low ammo capacity sometimes leaves you in a pinch at the wrong time. And I really never seem to do damage with the 13MM machine guns. Also it would be cool to see a 1944-45 USSR V Germany campaign and planes. Maybe that's where you can add the G-10 and G14/AS?  And maybe for the USSR they could get the LA-7 and Yak 3. Again just a thought. Let me know that you guys think.

[DBFlyguy]

...more eastern front....

 

Edited February 21, 2022 by DBFlyguy

[AJSNIPES]

I mean a Pacific campaign would be pretty cool to. 

[PatrickAWlson]

1 hour ago, DBFlyguy said:

...more eastern front....

 

 

We still have no 1944 or 1945 eastern front.  I don't think that I care all that much with Normandy and Bodenplatte filling that gap, but still ...

[RaFiGer]

Just my opinion as skinner I would love to see a Bf-109 G10 version, because of the fantastic possibility to create the outmost paint schemes for Normandy and Bodenplatte scenarios

 

The plane itself is for sure a good addition beside that "We have already to much Messerschmitts", its a plane which was a hybrid version not only prior to the K4 and well spread to all major front units over the western and eastern front!

[DBFlyguy]

8 hours ago, PatrickAWlson said:

 

We still have no 1944 or 1945 eastern front.

And that's fine by me.  We've already got 4 eastern front "Battle of" releases on top of the majority of collector releases and payware campaigns being eastern front focused.  I'd prefer they didn't got back to the eastern front for the foreseeable future.... at least until more of WWII is actually fleshed out... Pacific...Africa...Med

[Avimimus]

1 hour ago, DBFlyguy said:

And that's fine by me.  We've already got 4 eastern front "Battle of" releases on top of the majority of collector releases and payware campaigns being eastern front focused.  I'd prefer they didn't got back to the eastern front for the foreseeable future.... at least until more of WWII is actually fleshed out... Pacific...Africa...Med

 

Doesn't one have to feel a bit for all of the Russians (including most of the team members) who lack the 1944-1945 hotrods that American and UK/Commonwealth pilots have? I think it is also worth remembering that the combat flight simulator genre is alive and high-fidelity primarily due to Russian teams - so we should accept that they'll get to tell their history too.

 

Anyway, it is history worth telling and honouring.

Edited February 21, 2022 by Avimimus

[Beebop]

7 hours ago, RaFiGer said:

"We have already to much Messerschmitts"

I get it.  If you are a 109 fan.  But just how many variants of one plane does a sim need?  This is a good idea if IL-2 was a Bf-109 study sim but it's an Eastern/Western Front sim and there are so many more planes needed IMO.  I remember 1946 had some twenty five different variants of the Spitfire.  It was overkill IMO.

I like the upcoming Normandy planes and although not much of a Luftwaffe flyer (although I am looking forward to the Ju-88 and upcoming IAR) they will add diversity to the game without flooding any particular type.

 

2 Kopecks/Reichspfennigs from me.

Edited February 21, 2022 by Beebop

[PatrickAWlson]

14 minutes ago, Avimimus said:

 

Doesn't one have to feel a bit for all of the Russians (including most of the team members) who lack the 1944-1945 hotrods that American and UK/Commonwealth pilots have? I think it is also worth remembering that the combat flight simulator genre is alive and high-fidelity primarily due to Russian teams - so we should accept that they'll get to tell their history too.

 

Anyway, it is history worth telling and honouring.

 

It's a balancing act between telling ones story and keeping one's pay check.  I am not disagreeing, but a small team with lots of potential projects is going to have to be selective as to which one to do next.  If they feel that they can make a good profit off of Bagration or Seelow Heights then they should go for it.

 

One thing that I do believe is that 1944/45 Eastern Front cannot be handled as collector planes.  There has to be a map.  I don't think they need two full modules to get the late war Russian plane set in, but they definitely need one.  I also think that a late war Eastern Front module should have an asymmetric plane set, with more Russian than German.  Probably after Bagration to fit the late war time frame.  Seelow Heights is one option but the possibilities are endless.  Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Vienna, etc.

 

Every time "this is the next module" is announced then that's it for two years.  I would love to see France 1940, but the Med, Italy, Pacific, Finland, Spain,  BoB, North Africa are all possibilities.

[Beebop]

19 minutes ago, PatrickAWlson said:

I would love to see France 1940, but the Med, Italy, Pacific, Finland, Spain,  BoB, North Africa are all possibilities.

I would love all of those but I think we won't see North Africa/Mediterranean as they are covered by CLoD/Tobruk.  Finland and Spain are too small a niche and for the most part doesn't have heavy hitting planes a lot of folks like, only pea shooting "crap planes" (which I ? by the way), Pacific has always been met with a "lack of documentation" and the need to develop carriers which might be an overwhelming task with this game engine,  so I'm hoping for Italy but my moneys on some kind of later Eastern Front module.

[PatrickAWlson]

15 minutes ago, Beebop said:

I would love all of those but I think we won't see North Africa/Mediterranean as they are covered by CLoD/Tobruk.  Finland and Spain are too small a niche and for the most part doesn't have heavy hitting planes a lot of folks like, only pea shooting "crap planes" (which I ? by the way), Pacific has always been met with a "lack of documentation" and the need to develop carriers which might be an overwhelming task with this game engine,  so I'm hoping for Italy but my moneys on some kind of later Eastern Front module.

 

Totally agree that many of the scenarios are remote, at best.  Just throwing possibilities out there.  If not for CLoD I would say that BoB is the next natural battle.  Even with CLoD I do not count it out.   There comes a point where denying a business opportunity to your flagship product because it covered by a much older product might not be a great idea.  Just not sure that 1C is there yet.

 

Going to be interesting to see what's next.  As far as I can see there is no clear front runner.

[Audgisil]

I think it is absolutely reasonable to include another variant of the 109, and I would love to see the G-10. The G-14/AS would also be a welcome addition. Any new "great battle" that the developers offer is going to need to provide a balanced set of planes. Not every customer is going to go out and buy the entire series... certainly not from the very start, and new customers are always a good thing (while still keeping your existing customers). So, each battle needs to offer an interesting and balanced set of aircraft, as best possible with historical accuracy in mind. If the past is any indication, any new expansion will include roughly the same number and types of aircraft for each side as well, again where possible. Now any "great battle" taking place outside of Asia is going to involve the Luftwaffe, and that means 109s and 190s for fighters, any other fighters would just be for the novelty and not representative of the battle as a whole.

 

For the allied side, variety is the spice of life. They get a lot of different kinds of planes, which is really cool. But limited resources mean that the number of variants will be somewhat lower. However, this is also dictated by when different aircraft entered operational service. I think the developers do a great job of covering the most imporant variants. The Spitfire is a good example, but I would still enjoy seeing even more. I really hope we get a Battle of Britain at some point with the Mk. I. That also means we need a 109E-3. I don't understand the attitude of "not another 109", especially from people who don't even fly them... or hardly any other Luftwaffe aircraft.

 

Also, because the 109 was used throughout the entire war, it's automatically going to be an iconic aircraft for any battles involving forces in Europe. That means a lot of different variants with major changes throughout the war. Allied aircraft with a similar development are the Spitfire and Il-2. which is why we also have multiple variants of those as well, which I think is great.

 

I'll glady take every 109 I can get... and every other variant of planes like the Spitfire, Il-2, Mustang, etc. It's also why I think they made the right choice to offer the IAR-80 as a collector plane. It just can't carry a "great battle" on its own, but I'm really looking forward to flying it as well.

[CUJO_1970]

Yes, these aircraft are all needed and have been requested many times if you search the forums. Also, mandatory every single thread about these aircraft will feature someone with a Mustang in their profile telling us all how put out they would be if any effort was expended to include these aircraft.

 

The /AS options are really just options that already existed for the planes we already have with G6 and G14, and in large numbers but for whatever reason they were left out of the sim...The G10 was a large part of the 109 fleet in the last year of the war, in operation over the maps we already have. Don't even need a new map or scenario. These aircraft would fill a real historical void that exists in the Luftwaffe plane set.

 

The other much desired Luftwaffe S/E fighter is the FW190A9/F9 which again operated in large numbers over our Bodenplatte/Normandy maps.

 

 

 

[DD_fruitbat]

27 minutes ago, PatrickAWlson said:

 

Totally agree that many of the scenarios are remote, at best.  Just throwing possibilities out there.  If not for CLoD I would say that BoB is the next natural battle.  Even with CLoD I do not count it out.   There comes a point where denying a business opportunity to your flagship product because it covered by a much older product might not be a great idea.  Just not sure that 1C is there yet.

 

Going to be interesting to see what's next.  As far as I can see there is no clear front runner.

 

Unless something is going to change radically, which is always a possibility, the game engine, as is couldn't do BoB, unless you want BoB light.

[PatrickAWlson]

5 minutes ago, DD_fruitbat said:

 

Unless something is going to change radically, which is always a possibility, the game engine, as is couldn't do BoB, unless you want BoB light.

 

It would definitely be light.   I am going todo a faux BoB with the Normandy map, but it is going to be 8-12 bombers with 4 fighters as escort.  Shrug,

[357th_KW]

I think the "not another 109" feeling is understandable given that every BoX module so far has been focused on the Germans as the axis component.  People are drawn to variety, and for that reason I hope we see an expansion focused on Japan or Italy as the next module - it would really revitalize the player base.

 

That being said, more variants of aircraft are always welcome.  The AS and G-10 both bring something different to the table and match up well against the high altitude focused western fighters.

[DBFlyguy]

14 minutes ago, Beebop said:

I would love all of those but I think we won't see North Africa/Mediterranean as they are covered by CLoD/Tobruk.  Finland and Spain are too small a niche and for the most part doesn't have heavy hitting planes a lot of folks like, only pea shooting "crap planes" (which I ? by the way), Pacific has always been met with a "lack of documentation" and the need to develop carriers which might be an overwhelming task with this game engine,  so I'm hoping for Italy but my moneys on some kind of later Eastern Front module.

Italy would be cool and seems more likely than the pacific at this point... I do really want the pacific though, and I don't need carriers which made up only a small part of pacific operations anyway... CBI, Solomons or New Guinea all provide good non-carrier based options.

 

Concerning 109s... I don't mind more as long as they are tied to something new like Italy or Africa or as collector aircraft.

[CountZero]

I expect in summer well know we are getting late war east front DLC and youll get 109G10, 190A9 and Ta-152H, so nothing to worry ?

 

109E3, no auto rpm, no HE 20mm... i doubt it would be more popular then 109E7 we have now.

 

109G14/AS probably good choice for collector airplane if they dont have some future DLC where they plan to fit it it.

[CUJO_1970]

8 minutes ago, VBF-12_KW said:

I think the "not another 109" feeling is understandable

 

No.

 

It really isn't.

[Eisenfaustus]

3 hours ago, DBFlyguy said:

We've already got 4 eastern front "Battle of" releases

It‘s only three! If we had four I‘d see your point…

But seriously - the EF has to be finished at some point…

If they‘d go pacific first great - but eventually I‘d really like to fly late east. 

[Feldgrun]

For next release I vote Battle of the Reich, with AI Allied heavy bombers. They could take off in the BoN map in England, with targets in the BoBP map, returning to their base in England. Allies would be fighter escorts switching to ground attack, and Germans would be interceptors. Lots of German options for new planes, as that was the focus in the late war (Ta 152, He 162, Me 163, etc.). You could also add the G-10 & G-14/AS to help finish out the Bf 109 series.

 

Either that or Guadalcanal, but it's going to need to be something that excites new players. Those of us that have bought most of the BoX series will likely buy the next one, but to bring in new players, and compete with other sims, the new release will need to be something exciting. 

Edited May 6, 2022 by Feldgrun

[CAFulcrum]

I wouldn't mind a late war soviet package.  Fill in the missing german planes, maybe get a fw189 in finally, he 177, and upgraded P40 and P39 as well as soviet domestics like yak3, later il2 variant, etc.

I also agree there's no issue with the 'lack of viriety' on the german side, considering the real war lack of variety.  Advancements went into existing airframes and having the 'matching' ones is enough reason to model every major variant of their planes, as well as considering they were the lone aggressor to 3+ other nations for most of the war outside of Italy and there isn't much room to go to other than dropping them and just releasing allied aircraft packages.

[Avimimus]

1 hour ago, PatrickAWlson said:

One thing that I do believe is that 1944/45 Eastern Front cannot be handled as collector planes.  There has to be a map.  I don't think they need two full modules to get the late war Russian plane set in, but they definitely need one.  I also think that a late war Eastern Front module should have an asymmetric plane set, with more Russian than German.

 

It might still be possible to have a symmetric planeset if they model one or two unexpected planes (e.g. Fi-156). That might also up the variety. I think it is good for modules to have both some high-performing multiplayer oriented aircraft (e.g. Spit XIV), and some aircraft oriented to providing new experiences that sims haven't provided in the past (e.g. Ju-88C, IAR-81). It provides a nice balance between newer players who are still captivated by hotrods, and those of us who've gotten over that tendency a decade ago  - not to say I wouldn't mind a He-162.

 

As for the two final modules - I'd go for a 1945 East module (Ju-188, Tu-2, Yak-3, La-7, Yak-9M, Bf-109G10, Fw-190A9, He-162 etc.) and a Leningrad scenario for the final Eastern module.

 

I like the idea of finishing off the series with Leningrad as it'd cover 1941-1944 which means re-using a lot of AI aircraft from other modules, and that broader timespan would also allow filling gaps in the planeset with aircraft that are missing from other scenarios (e.g. Ju-87D-5, A-20G, Fw-190A4, Bf-109G1, P-39Q, Fw-189, Pe-3).

 

Of course, they could do the Pacific or Italy in between.

[Beebop]

1 hour ago, Audgisil said:

I don't understand the attitude of "not another 109", especially from people who don't even fly them... or hardly any other Luftwaffe aircraft.

Because it means resources aren't being spent on a wider range of aircraft and maps.

 

57 minutes ago, DBFlyguy said:

I don't need carriers which made up only a small part of pacific operations anyway...

But a significant part.  If the Japanese had sunk our carriers at Pearl Harbor the war would have been much longer.  Marianas and Midway dramatically changed Japans ability to successfully wage war and both were carrier centric.  Besides, when people think of WWII in the Pacific they think of carrier ops.

[Audgisil]

59 minutes ago, Beebop said:

Because it means resources aren't being spent on a wider range of aircraft and maps.

 

It takes a lot more resources to find information about, build and test brand new aircraft that didn't play as significant a role in a given battle. This also entails the risk of investing all that time and money into aircraft that are very rarely used. You also still need to give both sides an appropriate mix of aircraft, which includes fighters. In short, another 109 is low hanging fruit by comparison.  I don't see it as a zero-sum choice, but I trust the developers to make the call based on available information on aircraft, internal resources, sales projections, etc - all information we don't have.

[I./JG52_Woutwocampe]

15 hours ago, PatrickAWlson said:

 

We still have no 1944 or 1945 eastern front.  I don't think that I care all that much with Normandy and Bodenplatte filling that gap, but still ...

 

As much as I want to have the Yak 3 and La 7, I wonder if a late Eastern front module would draw much interest.

 

I dont think so personally.

 

 

Edited February 21, 2022 by I./JG52_Woutwocampe

[Avimimus]

9 minutes ago, I./JG52_Woutwocampe said:

As much as I want to have the Yak 3 and La 7, I wonder if a late Eastern front module would draw much interest.

 

I dont think so personally.

 

Well... that was the conventional belief right - that Il-2 was a niche product in 1999... I don't think anyone thought it'd save the WWII combat flight sim genre!

 

The Commonwealth/U.K. was also a smaller market than the U.S. - so it was almost unheard of to have a British aircraft outside of Battle of Britain sims (and then it was usually just a Spit IX). So maximising profits by going for the largest/wealthiest market means only doing the U.S. (and then, with only enough content for two or three modules total).

 

What I'm hoping is that the overall audience/market is growing gradually so that it'll be possible to keep expanding the series for another six or ten years - that'd make it truly comprehensive. At some point it'd mean returning to the East or the Mediterranean (which U.S. audiences don't typically know about), and having smaller sales per module - unless the overall audience has grown to compensate. I think this team could pull all of that off - at least if they want to and the parent company understands the situation.

 

I don't want to see a return to only doing U.S. aircraft and modules though. That said, I'm convinced enough of the quality and impressed enough with the comprehensive updates this series has received I'll order anything - even a Korean scenario with only U.S. aircraft (and without a European component, Il-28 or Vampire etc.)

[sevenless]

15 hours ago, PatrickAWlson said:

 

We still have no 1944 or 1945 eastern front.  I don't think that I care all that much with Normandy and Bodenplatte filling that gap, but still ...

 

Yep. We still have nothing on the most important timeframe when the VVS started to turn the tide against the Luftwaffles. From Mid 1943 until May 1945 there is still a huge gap to fill. This game is called IL2 for a reason and that is eastern front tactical airwar. I hope that after Normandy we at least see at 44/45 module for the Oder/Berlin endgame and even then still huge gaps remain to be filled.

Edited February 21, 2022 by sevenless

[Drum]

Imagine, for a second, what Carrier Battles will (really) be like for the attacking planes as they start their runs against those enemy fleets brimming & bristling with hundreds of AAA & Flak; then imagine all the complaining that'll follow it in the forms...

 

I agree to buying and playing future CV battles only if all of you guys first agree to be the dumb arses lucky ones who actual get stredded do the bombing & torpedoing part.  I'll fly escort and do the fun stuff like, uh, returning to base to tell your harrowing story...   <G>

Edited February 21, 2022 by Drum

[DBFlyguy]

2 hours ago, Beebop said:

  Marianas and Midway dramatically changed Japans ability to successfully wage war and both were carrier centric.  Besides, when people think of WWII in the Pacific they think of carrier ops.

Marianas I could see since that could include the full invasion (June to November 1944) period and not just the "Turkey Shoot" battle.  Midway... yeah, its an iconic and important battle, but it was over in a couple days, not much to focus a full release around, it should be part of a bigger release if possible.  That being said...I'd certainly rather see Midway over more eastern front.

[JG7_X-Man]

4 hours ago, Beebop said:

...But just how many variants of one plane does a sim need?

It's not about how many variants of Me 109s does a "Air Comber Simulator" need. The point is the Luftwaffe's idea was to modify the Me 109 and Fw 190 airframe to keep pace with aerial combat requirements. That is why there are so many variants of both aircraft, for every period in WWII - there were specific Me 109s and Fw 190s that took part in the air battle and they should be represented correctly.

 

You cannot say there is no need to the Bf 109G-14/AS, Bf 109G-10 or Bf 109G-6/AS in 'late '44 because we already have the Bf 109G-14, Bf 109K-4, Bf 109G-6 or Bf 109G-6 Late. You cannot because they are very different aircraft with different flight characteristics suited for high altitude combat for example.

[Algy-Lacey]

3 hours ago, Audgisil said:

Now any "great battle" taking place outside of Asia is going to involve the Luftwaffe, and that means 109s and 190s for fighters, any other fighters would just be for the novelty and not representative of the battle as a whole.

 

I've said it before (in several threads like this one) and I'll say it again...

 

An Italian Great Battles would bring the possibility for some excellent Italian fighter aircraft for the Axis, the Serie 5 fighters like the Macchi 205V and Fiat G.55 Centauro. I'm not against seeing more 109 variants (did the Me109 G10 fly over Italy?) but I am more excited by the G.55 and Spitfire VIII, what a match up! And to fly over Sicilly/Italy would provide a nice change of colour pallette... dusty browns and oranges and greys and different vegetation. It could make it the best map since Kuban. And as long as they didn't step on CLoD/Tobruk's toes there is nothing to stop 1C from doing it.

 

Oh and there is the possibility to try doing Aircraft Carriers before heading to a Pacific module using them almost exclusively, which would be after they have sorted the Great Battles game engine to allow masses of AA/flak and bigger formations.

 

I like late war Eastern Front, but I think a Med battle would sell better and should come first.

 

Happy Landings!

Algy-Lacey

[DBFlyguy]

3 hours ago, Eisenfaustus said:

It‘s only three! If we had four I‘d see your point…

But seriously - the EF has to be finished at some point…

If they‘d go pacific first great - but eventually I‘d really like to fly late east. 

Well...that Tank Crew thing makes four... yeah, I don't get why (nevermind, gonna stay diplomatic...)

 

So, there have been 4 eastern front "battles" plus the majority of payware campaigns (besides Hellhawks) and collector releases are eastern front focused.  I'm eastern front'd out. I'm sure all of the die-hards will buy up whatever the devs release next, I'm at point where it needs to peak my interest and more "Yaks and 109s" ain't it.

Edited February 21, 2022 by DBFlyguy

[JG7_X-Man]

In my opinion, we need Battle for Berlin 1945 with Yak-3s, Yak-9Us, La-7s,  Fw 190D-13/D-15, Ta 152s, Fw 190A-9s

[Gambit21]

16 hours ago, PatrickAWlson said:

 

We still have no 1944 or 1945 eastern front..

 

Of all of the "We still have no..." fill in the blank sentences that are possible, anything containing the words "Eastern Front" elicits the strongest vomit burp reaction with me.

 

Spoiler

We have ZERO Pacific thus far that means 41, 42, 43, 44 or 45...Eastern Front regardless of the year can get bent.

 

[BraveSirRobin]

50 minutes ago, Gambit21 said:

 

Of all of the "We still have no..." fill in the blank sentences that are possible, anything containing the words "Eastern Front" elicits the strongest vomit burp reaction with me.

 

  Hide contents

We have ZERO Pacific thus far that means 41, 42, 43, 44 or 45...Eastern Front regardless of the year can get bent.

 

 

 

Get a barf bag ready.  We’re absolutely getting late war eastern front at some point. 

[Rjel]

With the recent announcement of a new sky dome coming soon, cloud tech, longer distance view, all the flight model improvements, and on and on, leads me to believe it won't be WWII at all. As others have suggested, I would not bet against Korea. Without 109s....

Edited February 21, 2022 by Rjel
"I" am not an "it".

[Gambit21]

8 minutes ago, BraveSirRobin said:

 

 

Get a barf bag ready.  We’re absolutely getting late war eastern front at some point. 

 

At some point is a given...it's a Russian team after all.

[IckyATLAS]

If it's jets that are coming, then the new battles are not for me. I am for pistons, propellers, high octane fuel and oil. With what we have and if BON is up to the task, that's fine, between BOS, BOM, BOK, BOBp, BON there is enough room to play with.

Edited February 24, 2022 by IckyATLAS

[354thFG_Panda_]

It would be very nice the see 109 G10 with the Erla variant that has the asymmetric 131 cowling with the crescent on the right side, the wide oil cooler and the absence of protrusions near the propeller hub unlike the K4. I have read somewhere that the G10 could use the DC engine setup like the K4 at some point, anyone more knowledgeable on this usage for specifically the G10? I have seen a performance chart somewhere that gave it similar speed to the G14 with the DC down low.

Edited February 21, 2022 by LR.RedPanda