Non-Flyable Fokker Fodder

[Majpalmer]

One thing I'd like to see as Flying Circus develops, is the inclusion of the crappy aircraft few people would wish to fly but made up the majority of what people shot down. This is  also a problem with Rise of Flight. You have, for example, the Fokker E III, but not the various Entente aircraft that it "scourged." In RoF, the worst Entente AC that the E III faces are the N11, the FE 2, and Strutter, all of which are faster than the Fokker. Missing are the planes like the Gunbus, BE 2 Quirks, Voisons, Martinsydes, etc. 

 

Even when FC 2 is completed, you still have a fine mix of scouts but very few (3 allied; 2 German) two-seaters. Something like 50+ of the Red Baron's victories were two-seaters. 

 

I'd love to see the inclusion of assorted non-flyable 2-seaters. I assume that it takes far less design effort to include a non-flyable AC than a fully flyable one. 

[ShamrockOneFive]

3 hours ago, Majpalmer said:

I'd love to see the inclusion of assorted non-flyable 2-seaters. I assume that it takes far less design effort to include a non-flyable AC than a fully flyable one. 

There's been plenty of talk about AI aircraft over in the WWII side of the forum. The answer on the effort involved is that it's not quite as much as a fully flyable aircraft but it's almost as much. You remove the work needed to do the cockpit but all of the systems, the flight model, damage model, exterior model and texturing, and so forth all need to still be done. It's why the 1CGS team has only committed rarely to doing non-flyable aircraft.

[BlitzPig_EL]

As generally simple as WW1 cockpits are in comparison to WW2 aircraft, there is no reason not to make them all flyable.

 

The trouble comes from finding enough people to purchase the early war kites, especially if they are "collector" planes.  We see this even with the WW2 aircraft.

Most players gravitate to later, higher performance aircraft.  It's just how it is.

[Feathered_IV]

I'd love to have a BE.2 for photo reconnaissance ops.  Both to fly and as a target.  Especially now that we have the new clouds.

[ST_Catchov]

I'll see your Be2 and raise you a flyable Parasol. Arguably, the cutest plane of the war. Although one cannot deny the Be2's had a certain charm in a Heath Robinson, steampunk sort of way. Early war aircraft would trump RoF and set FC apart. But I'm not sure if this is in the dev's vision or if the MP crowd would embrace it? But certainly for SP, early war scenarios would be welcome imo. 

[WoolieWool]

10 hours ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

As generally simple as WW1 cockpits are in comparison to WW2 aircraft, there is no reason not to make them all flyable.

 

The trouble comes from finding enough people to purchase the early war kites, especially if they are "collector" planes.  We see this even with the WW2 aircraft.

Most players gravitate to later, higher performance aircraft.  It's just how it is.

FC has an advantage over RoF in that regard in being bundles, RoF might not be able to sell a BE.2 since people will compare it to other planes available at a similar price and find it wanting, but FC could probably sell one if it came with sexier early-war planes like the E.III (a totally unique experience to fly compared to any other fighter in the entire war), Halberstadt D.II, and Nieuport 17 and a campaign that used them and kept out the 1917-18 planes from FC1/2. The thing would be not to sell early-war planes as one plane among many, but as part of an early-war experience. I for one would definitely love to take a Halberstadt up into the skies of 1916 and slug it out with Pups, DH.2s, Nieuports, and the "Fokker fodder".

 

But maybe I'm just weird. I prefer early-war stuff in WWII, and the upcoming VR support for CLoD has me very excited to try out Emils, P-40s, and Gladiators over North Africa without Friedrichs and MiG-3s to oppress them like in BoM.

Edited February 21, 2022 by WoolieWool

[Guest deleted@219798]

If you want to fly older planes the best bet is Wings Over Flanders Fields 2. It has most of the planes for a Fokker Scourge. In RoF the EIII is obsolete by late 1916. Fairly doubtful if much in the way of older planes will ever be released for FC.

[Avimimus]

The entire Rise of Flight plane-set amounts to ~38 aircraft. If they do four Flying Circus modules that leaves room for two new aircraft.

 

The most needed aircraft are two-seaters that are slow enough for the Fokker E.III and the DH.2 to catch. The F.E.2b and Sikorsky S-16 also need a slow target.

 

The Morane Saulnier L / Pfalz A.I/Pfalz E.III is the easiest solution. It was used as a two-seater observer, bomber, and as a single seater fighter by both sides during the war. It is famous for being the first fighter aircraft with a fixed forward firing gun, as well as the first aircraft to destroy a Zeppelin in flight by bombing it. That said, it is a bit imperfect as the Pfalz versions were up-engined and could outrun our aircraft.

 

For the Entente there are several interesting options:

 

The B.E.2c is iconic and was numerous. It is hard to imagine a 1916-1917 sim missing it.

 

The Voisin V pusher was also very numerous, carried a sizeable bombload and had an armoured version with a 37mm cannon (used mainly in ground attack e.g. to attack barges).

 

The Caudron G.4 wasn't produced in as large numbers, but was still numerous and is very charismatic. It also had a large number of field mods (include a single-seat fighter conversion).

 

 

The German options are less a bit interesting but more needed:

 

The Albatros C.III and Aviatik C.I - they are both going 142-145 km/h... the Rumpler C.I is even faster - they all easily outpace our D.H.2 and S-16. The outwardly similar LVG C.II might be a better pick as it only reached 130 km/h and had a fixed forward firing gun and bombs (first aircraft to bomb London). It was also built in similar numbers to the others. The Albatros C.I was also about 130 km/h and some had field mods with a second gun firing forward (although operated by the observer I believe). Finally, some Aviatik B were retrofitted with the side-rails for defensive guns that the Aviatik C.I received - it wouldn't have the forward firing gun or bombs of the LVG, but it would be an Aviatik with a defensive armament - and would only go 115 km/h (something even the Sikorsky S-16 could attack). The Albatros B.II also received a gunner in some cases and went about 120 km/h - so that is another option.

 

I have some old thoughts in this thread (and a table of speeds):

 

[Trooper117]

Look... let's just say 'we want EVERYTHING!'

[J2_Trupobaw]

I want a model that makes U-2 look like B-2 from outside. Maybe modified U-2 with forward gunner position and Lewis. Make whole thing AI only and reuse U-2 FM, systems and physics. If the plane exists only to be shot at, the details of its workings are not as important.

I always claimed that Bloody April tournament should be a fight between equal forces of German and RNFS human pilots, with RFC represented as AIs on RNAS side. Maybe next year.

[Avimimus]

On 3/2/2022 at 6:07 AM, Trooper117 said:

Look... let's just say 'we want EVERYTHING!'

 

Well  It is hard to not want anything and everything when they produce such quality.

 

But I think... this is more about asking for a viable career for the DH.2, F.E.2b and Fokker E.III - one where there is at least one two-seater which one can successfully intercept.

 

The DH.2 is particularly poorly off - as it can't dive - and out earliest German Two-Seater, the Roland C.II, is more than 20% faster than the DH.2. It'd currently make sense to simply ignore all of the DH.2 and bypass them without engaging.

 

But as for wanting everything - well, a B.E.2c and a slow German two seater (LVG C.II or Aviatik B) would be excellent. The French also deserve representation, with the Voisin V being the best choice from a numerical perspective and the Caudron G.4 being more popular with forum members.

 

The Morane L could be used by both side and would be a good opponent for the Sikorsky S-16. So, yeah, I'd like all four aircraft! Dreaming eh?

[ST_Catchov]

Well I'm all for spinning incinerators, parasols and quirks. Life essentials in troubled times.