Oculus Quest 2 - Good results but objects very jaggy

[Teniente_Dan]

Hi all.

I recently bought a Quest2 and finally jumped into VR.
I'm very happy with the purchase, but my PC (1060 6Gb + Ryzen 5 2600) is not super powerful for VR so I have spent the whole week tweaking settings to get a good experience.

I am using FSR_mod (god sent), and I finally got to a point where I am very pleased with the experience and the fluidity achieved.
But OBJECTS (builidngs, ground units, etc) are very jaggy and shimmering. The rest (cockpit, landscape, clouds, all look great).
I took a screenshot from the HDM directly so you can see what I mean. You can see the City on the screenshot:
https://i.imgur.com/PlETxf9.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/PlETxf9.jpeg

I already disabled sharpen filter in IL2. Disabled steamvr advanced supersample filtering.
These are my FSR_mod settings:

    "renderScale": 0.80,

     "sharpness": 0.5,
    "radius": 0.5,
    "applyMIPBias": false,
    

And I am using Occulus Debug Tool to apply Supersampling: at 1.3 currently, which means 1632x1632 resolution in Steam VR.

I am afraid I can't increase supersampling too much (old GTX1060 can't do more). 
Do you have any other ideas on how I could reduce the shimmering and jagged edges on the objects?

Thanks,

Another example of how the control tower looks: https://i.imgur.com/RcEzSnL.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/RcEzSnL.jpeg

Edited February 17, 2022 by Teniente_Dan

[d2k77]

Yes would like to know this as well! been tinkering with different settings for a while now and still get a lot of shimmering. I know I wont get a perfect image because of compression using a link cable but want to improve it as well

[Youtch]

13 hours ago, Teniente_Dan said:

But OBJECTS (builidngs, ground units, etc) are very jaggy and shimmering.

I have a HP Reverb G2, use FSRmod as well, and I have the same problem as well, any object on the ground looks damn ugly, those airbase building being the worst.

[Teniente_Dan]

5 hours ago, Youtch said:

I have a HP Reverb G2, use FSRmod as well, and I have the same problem as well, any object on the ground looks damn ugly, those airbase building being the worst.

 

Interesnting. It's very clear to me that something is going on. Because the rest of the game looks pretty amazing, landscape, sky, clounds, cockpit, every looks great.

But the city...


Or the Control Tower in the airbase.

 

[Angry_Russian]

I've been experiencing fast moving object artifacts with recent updates, there were no such problem on 4.701, but when I came back to IL2 on updated 4.702 that became a problem. Though I'm still investigating because since then I've installed new GPU drivers, Windows 10 update, new firmware for Quest 2 was released and it's damn hard to sort this out. Strangest thing is that no software reports frames dropping, so it's more like a video compression issue which looks like vsync off on 2D screen, but in VR.. basically fast moving objects are creating ghosting similar to ASW work but ASW is definitely off and it happens not every couple frames but more rarely. E.g. I can see this stuff clearly on a take-off if I look at the side or if I roll plane aggressively.

 

Has anyone experienced something like this recently? I've tried many things so far - clean reinstall of different GPU driver version, different Quest link settings, different Quest refresh rates, different game graphics settings, HAGS on/off, complete clean reinstall of Steam and SteamVR, clean reinstall of IL-2 etc.. what I can't do is roll back IL-2 or roll back Quest 2 and it's driving me nuts ? Will try to roll back Win10, but I'm really running out of options.. Also will test Beat Saber today (the best benchmark for VR smoothness ever ?)

[KPnutskgwanchos]

I have learnt that its all about compromise with VR especially if you have a sub par rig. If you have smooth play and it feels good then try to ignore the jaggies ... they will be gone in the future :-)  

[Angry_Russian]

14 minutes ago, KPnutskgwanchos said:

I have learnt that its all about compromise with VR especially if you have a sub par rig. If you have smooth play and it feels good then try to ignore the jaggies ... they will be gone in the future ? 

Well for sure it's about compromise, but after butter-smooth experience with 3080ti on a high settings at 90 fps on 4.701 coming back to see that you need to drop all the graphics down to avoid artifacts destroying the visibility is not really fun. I literally now play on the lowest possible graphics without forests, buildings and shadows just to able to see and follow contacts against the ground. My GPU is loaded by 40% but I still have these issues. And it's not really clear what causing this... just hoping to find someone who is experiencing the same and/or worked it out.. I'm about to do a clean Windows reinstall, which I didn't want to do until Oculus gets a proper support on Win 11, that's basically the reason I'm still on Win 10.

Edited February 18, 2022 by Angry_Russian

[KPnutskgwanchos]

4 hours ago, Angry_Russian said:

Well for sure it's about compromise, but after butter-smooth experience with 3080ti on a high settings at 90 fps on 4.701 coming back to see that you need to drop all the graphics down to avoid artifacts destroying the visibility is not really fun. I literally now play on the lowest possible graphics without forests, buildings and shadows just to able to see and follow contacts against the ground. My GPU is loaded by 40% but I still have these issues. And it's not really clear what causing this... just hoping to find someone who is experiencing the same and/or worked it out.. I'm about to do a clean Windows reinstall, which I didn't want to do until Oculus gets a proper support on Win 11, that's basically the reason I'm still on Win 10.

Sure I totally get your frustration in your scenario ... my post was for the original poster who has a less powerful system. I seem to have better results than you currently with a 2070 so there must be an issue lurking somewhere in your setup. Hope you find an answer soon.     

[Teniente_Dan]

7 hours ago, KPnutskgwanchos said:

I have learnt that its all about compromise with VR especially if you have a sub par rig. If you have smooth play and it feels good then try to ignore the jaggies ... they will be gone in the future ? 

Thank you Sir.

Yeah, it´s probably the case, I can ask more for the rig I have, I honestly didn't expect the 1060 to hold as good, even with so many hours of tweaking.
And in any case, I am waiting to pull the trigger in a new 3080Ti and also probably Micro+MB when prices get a bit more reasonable.

Sorry to hear about your issues Angry_Russian, it's definitely daunting to have such a powerful rig and have those issues. I haven't seen anyone with Q2 with those problems... but who knows.

[Angry_Russian]

Yeah, today I've reinstalled pretty much everything, fresh Windows and only necessary software to run IL2 and issue is still the same, although overall VR performance improved, I have even more GPU available to me now and link works even better than before.. I almost certain it's the IL2 itself behaves strangely after recent hotfix. I've tested Beat Saber and it's butter smooth both in steamVR and in native Oculus modes, and if there is even a tiny bit of lag or stuttering it's always very obvious in Beat Saber. No way to rollback IL2, so I think I'll just forget about IL2 for a while and come back to DCS, still have some old stuff unexplored on 2.5.6 which runs pretty well in VR after some modding. Shame as I really love this game, but what can I do.. tomorrow will try DCS in steamVR just to double check that's not some weird openVR issue.

 

Hope some day IL2 will switch to openXR which is natively supported by all headsets now, instead of super laggy openVR which is used in the game currently..

 

UPD: Tried DCS with SteamVR and there is no such issue there, runs very smooth, so it's purely IL2 problem with recent updates on Oculus.

Edited February 19, 2022 by Angry_Russian

[Panzerlang]

I've been experimenting with all the settings after discovering very fast and very uniform micro-stuttering at low level over trees (G2-VR on RTX3080Ti). My findings...

100% resolution slider in SteamVR settings (which is actually Super Sampling) increases native resolution per eye from 2160x2160 to 3160x3092. On it's own (zero anti aliasing) and the micro-stutter is gone but the image quality noticeably suffers. Add MSAAx2 and the image quality is superb but it's just over what the card can handle at low altitude (if you focus on watching scenery going by over the wing-tip while fast rolling).

BUT...in any case, with landscape sharpening turned OFF the terrain towards the horizon looks very poor. Turning it on is chalk and cheese difference and did not impact performance (fps/smoothness).

I ended up with 76% SS (2756x2696 per eye), MSAAx2 and terrain sharpening on. I can see no visible difference between that and SS at 100%, go figure. The increase in per-eye resolution over the headset's native resolution is supposed to correct distortion? Dunno. 76% vs 100%, no difference in the image that I can see.

I have one more thing to mess with and that's turning on the other sharpening tick-box, the one on the right of IL2's graphics-setting panel (no idea yet what it does).
EDIT: It makes planes look crap at distance. Lol.

Be aware, for the G2 at least, there are both global settings and per-app settings in SteamVR, under "Video". The IL2 settings appear only when the game is running and cannot be changed on the fly (you can alt-tab out of game, mess with SteamVR, go back into game and restart it for changes to take effect).
I also have motion re-projection forced on which caps FPS at 45.

FWIW.

Edited February 21, 2022 by Hetzer-JG51

[dburne]

55 minutes ago, Hetzer-JG51 said:

Be aware, for the G2 at least, there are both global settings and per-app settings in SteamVR, under "Video". The IL2 settings appear only when the game is running and cannot be changed on the fly (you can alt-tab out of game, mess with SteamVR, go back into game and restart it for changes to take effect).
I also have motion re-projection forced on which caps FPS at 45.

FWIW.

 

Just a note - be aware you can add non-Steam games to your Steam VR Library manually. It is in the Steam settings somewhere don't remember exactly where off top of my head.

[Panzerlang]

59 minutes ago, dburne said:

 

Just a note - be aware you can add non-Steam games to your Steam VR Library manually. It is in the Steam settings somewhere don't remember exactly where off top of my head.

My IL2 is non-Steam but the SteamVR sees it ok in the settings (I don't recall having to manually browse it to the IL2-exe).

If non-Steam IL2 is manually added to the library it means SteamVR will see it in the list even when the game is not running?

Edited February 21, 2022 by Hetzer-JG51

[dburne]

23 minutes ago, Hetzer-JG51 said:

My IL2 is non-Steam but the SteamVR sees it ok in the settings (I don't recall having to manually browse it to the IL2-exe).

If non-Steam IL2 is manually added to the library it means SteamVR will see it in the list even when the game is not running?

 

Yes.

[TheSNAFU]

2 hours ago, Hetzer-JG51 said:

I ended up with 76% SS (2756x2696 per eye), MSAAx2 and terrain sharpening on. I can see no visible difference between that and SS at 100%, go figure. The increase in per-eye resolution over the headset's native resolution is supposed to correct distortion? Dunno. 76% vs 100%, no difference in the image that I can see.

i have the G2 and came to the same conclusion on the 76% setting. I also have both landscape and the other ingame sharpening on, 2 FXAA and no motion smoothing. Presets on high along with most graphic settings. I also don’t see a noticeable improvement with res per eye at 100%. I get great performance and nice visuals. 

[Youtch]

1 hour ago, TheSNAFU said:

I ended up with 76% SS (2756x2696 per eye), MSAAx2

For me with MSAAx2 on the amount of shimmering is unbearable when you look 90% on the side or the ghosting effect it induces when a plane crosses quickly your path with high deflection making it appear double.

 

With FXAA, it is better, but still not as neat as 100% with FSRmod for dogfight, probably due to anti-aliasing, but 76%SS + FXAA seem to make ground objects look better, which is my only grip with my current settings.

[III/JG52_Al-Azraq]

On 2/18/2022 at 11:56 AM, Angry_Russian said:

Well for sure it's about compromise, but after butter-smooth experience with 3080ti on a high settings at 90 fps on 4.701 coming back to see that you need to drop all the graphics down to avoid artifacts destroying the visibility is not really fun. I literally now play on the lowest possible graphics without forests, buildings and shadows just to able to see and follow contacts against the ground. My GPU is loaded by 40% but I still have these issues. And it's not really clear what causing this... just hoping to find someone who is experiencing the same and/or worked it out.. I'm about to do a clean Windows reinstall, which I didn't want to do until Oculus gets a proper support on Win 11, that's basically the reason I'm still on Win 10.

 

Remove FSR, its scaling and sharpening create artifacts like the ones you are showing. If you need more performance, decrease the SteamVR resolution but don't add unnecessary middle software like FSR. Also, you can try enable MSAA but it is very resource intensive as IL-2 uses deferred rendering which is why shimmering is an inherent issue in IL-2.

 

We need TAA to see that shimmering gone.

[Angry_Russian]

1 hour ago, III/JG52_Al-Azraq said:

 

Remove FSR, its scaling and sharpening create artifacts like the ones you are showing. If you need more performance, decrease the SteamVR resolution but don't add unnecessary middle software like FSR. Also, you can try enable MSAA but it is very resource intensive as IL-2 uses deferred rendering which is why shimmering is an inherent issue in IL-2.

 

We need TAA to see that shimmering gone.

I think you are missing the point that I have this issue with stable fps equal to the headset's refresh rate and monitoring software tells me that no frames are dropped, but the issue is still there. I'm in VR since CV1 and know how it works, something is really wrong now in how Quest 2 v37 works with IL2's openVR, at least in my case.

 

I've posted the video here with instructions on how to watch it to see the issue:

 

[katdog5]

Hmmm.

 

I'm getting some jaggies too, esp on the landscape: Airfields and rivers at 5-10k-15k feet are SUPER jaggy for some reason. 

 

In game settings have done nothing to help, so I'd suspect something new with Quest/IL2 connection that needs updating or maybe I'll try disabling FSR  

 

 

 

Edited February 28, 2022 by katdog5
added feet

[Chilli_40]

On 2/18/2022 at 4:56 AM, Angry_Russian said:

Well for sure it's about compromise, but after butter-smooth experience with 3080ti on a high settings at 90 fps on 4.701 coming back to see that you need to drop all the graphics down to avoid artifacts destroying the visibility is not really fun. I literally now play on the lowest possible graphics without forests, buildings and shadows just to able to see and follow contacts against the ground. My GPU is loaded by 40% but I still have these issues. And it's not really clear what causing this... just hoping to find someone who is experiencing the same and/or worked it out.. I'm about to do a clean Windows reinstall, which I didn't want to do until Oculus gets a proper support on Win 11, that's basically the reason I'm still on Win 10.

I share your problem Angry_Russian, I'm running a RTX 3080Ti, AMD R7 5800X, 32GB, Quest 2, my shimmering got to the point last night I had to drop out of the server because I couldn't id a plane right on top of me! Both the horizon, buildings and the rivers are now jagged and shimmery, for me though this has just started a last week. I have no idea what to change to fix it.

[Angry_Russian]

9 hours ago, Raven4 said:

I share your problem Angry_Russian, I'm running a RTX 3080Ti, AMD R7 5800X, 32GB, Quest 2, my shimmering got to the point last night I had to drop out of the server because I couldn't id a plane right on top of me! Both the horizon, buildings and the rivers are now jagged and shimmery, for me though this has just started a last week. I have no idea what to change to fix it.

I ended up reinstalling Windows twice and factory resetting Quest 2, but it didn't help. I dropped IL2 due to this, not playing it any more. Flying jets in DCS with OpenXR mod now and it's miles better for me. Never even thought it would go this way, to be honest, IL2 was always an example of great VR and it's a great loss for me. I tried IL2 with OpenXR Open Composite and it is a tiny bit better (GPU load even lower), but overall still not worth it, unfortunately.

 

Actually, I've now remembered that I didn't try to disable AVX instructions of CPU and I believe it might have an impact. Will try later on today and see how it goes.

Edited April 28, 2022 by Angry_Russian

[56RAF_Roblex]

I play IL2 both using Virtual Desktop and using a cable and it seems fine for me.  Yes the ground does not look as nice as when I used to play it non-VR but maybe I just have just learned to tolerate it because I enjoy flying in VR so much.  Spotting is surprisingly good it is just the ID of closer aircraft that is difficult.   nVidia 3070.

[dgiatr]

Yes, QUEST 2 gives me more shimmer than HP REVERB G2 for the same resolution and settings,  but the whole image is more sharp, better looking colors and the whole environment is more clear in Q2 than in G2. On the other hand i get less fps with Q2 than with G2. Indeed Q2 is quite shimmery so that i have to set 2x MSSA and having some fps losses. FSR is set to 0.9 sharpening and in game sharpening set to zero. Some times i fly with Q2 when i dont get high fps losses from the current map, usually in WINGS OF LIBERTY and some others i fly with G2 in fps demanding maps like some FINNISH maps.

...nvidia 3060 TI.

Edited April 28, 2022 by dgiatr

[III/JG52_Al-Azraq]

Unfortunately nothing you can do. The problem is that the only antialiasing options are MSAA and FXAA.

 

MSAA supersamples the edges of the objects, but it is really expensive and leaves many objects aliased (usually farther objects). It is noticeable in 2D but way more in VR because you are strapping the monitor onto your face.

 

FXAA is applied to the whole image and doesn't focus on the edges. It is applied after the image is processed in the renderer and has way less performance impact than MSAA. The problem is that it still has difficulties completely clearing the shimmering and looks a bit worse than MSAA in VR but it performs so much better that I prefer it.

 

So what do we do to completely remove shimmering? We need TAA which uses motion vector data from the engine to effectively remove aliasing and open the doors to implement FSR 2.0 and DLSS which would be the absolute best.

 

AMD calculates that FSR 2.0 takes around 4 weeks of dev time to implement from scratch that is, in a game without motion vectors. We don't know though how long would it take with the in-house engine 1C uses but I think that if we make some noise they might consider although I don't know if DX12 or Vulkan is required.