Excellent we have Cows and Horses but .....

[IckyATLAS]

Long requested to have animals I am happy that we have cows and horses blocks, and they are also modeled when killed.

But the model is a group of cows and a group of horses. Very nice. But WHY, WHY not give us the single cow Block and single horse Block.

PLEASE so nice of you if you could take 5 minutes to give us this two small things. 

 

And you see small things can make enormous detail and immeriseveness difference.

 

We have a cart and a tent cart block. These two models are with the horse attach lateral wooden bars modeled so as lying down, normal because no horse was planned.

Now if you give us one cow model and one horse model and the carts are with the lateral bars modeled straight, we can make soviet villages much more lively putting the horse or the cow with the cart or tentcart. Two small things but together that can make a huge difference. And this has a visual impact when flying low, moving in the village with a tank or any playable vehicle.

 

Edited February 11, 2022 by IckyATLAS

[Jaegermeister]

I want walking draft horses pulling artillery carts. There are lots of stories about strafing horse carts in Europe especially towards the end of the war when fuel was scarce. They actually recorded the damaged and killed ones in the statistics. Poor little horses, I wonder if they would have to be "Neutral"?

[Gambit21]

2 hours ago, IckyATLAS said:

Long requested to have animals I am happy that we have cows and horses blocks, and they are also modeled when killed.

But the model is a group of cows and a group of horses. Very nice. But WHY, WHY not give us the single cow Block and single horse Block.

PLEASE so nice of you if you could take 5 minutes to give us this two small things. 

 

And you see small things can make enormous detail and immeriseveness difference.

 

We have a cart and a tent cart block. These two models are with the horse attach lateral wooden bars modeled so as lying down, normal because no horse was planned.

Now if you give us one cow model and one horse model and the carts are with the lateral bars modeled straight, we can make soviet villages much more lively putting the horse or the cow with the cart or tentcart. Two small things but together that can make a huge difference. And this has a visual impact when flying low, moving in the village with a tank or any playable vehicle.

 

 

I'm glad that everything else is finally available, and there's nothing left to ask for aside from single cows and horses!

 

 

From where I sit, I'd rather see airfield personnel/ground crew, cranes, tractors, carts, tow vehicles,  etc etc etc etc etc etc....etc.

By all means though...ask for a cow. lol

 

 

[Jaegermeister]

34 minutes ago, Gambit21 said:

By all means though...ask for a cow. lol

 

Not cows man... horses. Exploding horses.

 

That's all I want.

[LukeFF]

6 hours ago, Jaegermeister said:

Not cows man... horses. Exploding horses.

 

That's all I want.

 

I miss hunting deer in Janes WWII Fighters. ? 

[Cybermat47]

54 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

 

I miss hunting deer in Janes WWII Fighters. ? 

 

Nothing tastes better than venison you hunted yourself in a P-51.

Edited February 12, 2022 by Cybermat47

[IckyATLAS]

14 hours ago, Gambit21 said:

 

I'm glad that everything else is finally available, and there's nothing left to ask for aside from single cows and horses!

 

 

From where I sit, I'd rather see airfield personnel/ground crew, cranes, tractors, carts, tow vehicles,  etc etc etc etc etc etc....etc.

By all means though...ask for a cow. lol

 

 

When I started nine years ago with this sim I had high hopes regarding a decent block library with all you mentioned plus ships, personnel on the ground, personnel manning the guns on ships, burnt trees, vbarious rubble piles etc. etc. etc. etc. The list is pretty long. But with the years the philosophy is that forget your wishes the IL2 teams rule and will do whatever they think is good for it. Conclusion we must be happy with what we have, and what they give us, and better ask for what is a very minimal effort hoping that we may get it. But hey they did cows and horses, so the effort here to do a little better is near to nothing. All the rest I abandoned hope long ago.

 

Regarding horse use in WWII the Soviet Army used 3.5 million horses. They were in transport, logistics and cavalry units. It is not surprising we have them in this sim. 

 

Edited February 12, 2022 by IckyATLAS

[AEthelraedUnraed]

On 2/12/2022 at 2:33 AM, Gambit21 said:

I'm glad that everything else is finally available, and there's nothing left to ask for aside from single cows and horses!

 

From where I sit, I'd rather see airfield personnel/ground crew, cranes, tractors, carts, tow vehicles,  etc etc etc etc etc etc....etc.

By all means though...ask for a cow. lol

Given that 80% of the German transport was horse-drawn, as well as much of the Soviet and the overwhelming majority of WW1 transport for all belligerents, I think it's hard to overstate the importance of horse-drawn carts if we want to have realistic ground-attack missions.

 

However, I'd rather see them as moving vehicles. It'd require some extra work regarding animation and AI (I think it's hardly likely a horse would stand still with 20mm shells exploding all around), but the animation part is compensated for by the fact that we already have models for both horse and wagon. Still, it'd be more work than most vehicles. Even so, I'd rather have a horse drawn cart than several truck models. (Another advantage is that you can basically use the same cart for all countries that used them; just change the soldier model.)

[Knarley-Bob]

On 2/12/2022 at 2:37 AM, LukeFF said:

 

I miss hunting deer in Janes WWII Fighters. ? 

I remember those! Been a while.........

[Gambit21]

4 hours ago, AEthelraedUnraed said:

Given that 80% of the German transport was horse-drawn, as well as much of the Soviet and the overwhelming majority of WW1 transport for all belligerents, I think it's hard to overstate the importance of horse-drawn carts if we want to have realistic ground-attack missions.

 

 

I’ve never missed them personally. 

Now we need a horse splatter physics model? No thanks. I think it’s quite easy to overstate the importance here all things considered: 

[AEthelraedUnraed]

2 hours ago, Gambit21 said:

Now we need a horse splatter physics model? No thanks.

Nobody's saying we need any such thing. We haven't got a physics model for collapsing buildings either. If a vehicle can change from the undamaged model into the damaged model in the blink of an eye, then why shouldn't  the same be possible for a horse? The existing horses already have a damage model after all.

 

It may be you've never missed them personally. But to me it just seems unrealistic that when flying any WW1 or Allied WW2 attacker campaign, that you'd only see motorised vehicles. I've got nothing against the recently released WW1 vehicles - they're absolutely gorgeous and I love them. But from a gameplay perspective, I'd rather have a horse-drawn wagon than a marginally different version of the Mk5 tank or the Daimler DR4 while we've already got the Benz.

[messsucher]

Yeah, absolutely horses (and people), it would be a big difference to all other sims. Horses were used heck loads in WW2. It is silly to see all the time trucks only.

[Gambit21]

2 hours ago, AEthelraedUnraed said:

Nobody's saying we need any such thing.

 

I realize this...I'm following the notion to it's conclusion.

 

I get what you're saying, and I'm not saying it wouldn't be good "nice to have"

However we're missing much more important models with regard to immersion, including and primarily IMHO airfield stuff.

 

 

 

[Jaegermeister]

I much prefer this debate to the one about convergence or .50 caliber damage.

 

Easter is coming soon, this would make a great Easter Egg. I wonder if anyone is reading this that might somehow be able to make moving horses in their spare time sort of like how we got trees cut down here and there, and the entire Tank Crew game was made. Just because its cool.

 

OK, not exploding horses, just walking draft horses with an artillery cart. 

 

 

[Crooner]

I didnt know we got them, what is the block name in the editor?

[Sketch]

 

You can kill the horses too... For those that didn't know:

 

 

All Horses alive:

 

Some Horses dead:

 

 

And yes, you can kill cows too:

 

 

An image of you guys designing missions now:

 

 

[AEthelraedUnraed]

3 hours ago, Sketch said:

 

You can kill the horses too... For those that didn't know:

 

 

All Horses alive:

 

Some Horses dead:

 

 

And yes, you can kill cows too:

 

 

An image of you guys designing missions now:

Yum, meat!

 

IckyATLAS and I both know the horse models exist. Our beef (pun intended) is not with that there aren't any horses (because there are), but with the fact that you can *only* have the horses/cows in a group. IckyATLAS suggests a single horse model; I suggest making it a moving horse cart.

[jollyjack]

I saw them walking in RoF ... with a cart to boot.

[Gambit21]

On 2/11/2022 at 6:15 PM, Jaegermeister said:

 

Not cows man... horses. Exploding horses.

 

That's all I want.

 

If it had a mushroom cloud explosion like the old Mistel in 1946 - I'm all in.

I miss using that Mistel for explosion effects.

[Knarley-Bob]

If exploding cows and horses are included, don't be surprised if P.E.T.A. gets involved.

Just sayin'  ?

 

KB

[Sketch]

Well, you asked for it...

 

 

 

The logic behind the scenes:

 

The mission file:

KillingCows.zip

 

Edited February 15, 2022 by Sketch

[jollyjack]

I just filed a complaint here ... sorry:

https://www.rspca.org.uk/whatwedo/endcruelty/changingthelaw/whatwechanged/animalwelfareact

 

Edited February 15, 2022 by jollyjack

[IckyATLAS]

This was not what I intended. Unfortunately things as always may get out of control, and the thread may be locked quickly.

Please be gentle and nice with horses and cows on the forum. Thanks.

[AEthelraedUnraed]

Due to recent developments, I am forced to add the following disclaimer:

 

All actions were performed by trained professional stunt cows and horses. No cows or horses were harmed in the making of this thread.

[Gambit21]

18 minutes ago, AEthelraedUnraed said:

Due to recent developments, I am forced to add the following disclaimer:

 

All actions were performed by trained professional stunt cows and horses. No cows or horses were harmed in the making of this thread.

 

Speak for yourself, my cows were harmed plenty.

[LukeFF]

4 hours ago, Sketch said:

Well, you asked for it...

 

Dinner's ready! ? 

[Crooner]

I get what you are saying, but indeed moving horses with carts would be great addition. Thanks for the editor info Sketch

Edited February 15, 2022 by Crooner

[Jaegermeister]

15 hours ago, Sketch said:

Well, you asked for it...

 

Horses man.... more like this!

 

 

My logic is a little less linear, but the problem is it won't follow along behind a cart anyway

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 16, 2022 by Jaegermeister

[IckyATLAS]

3 hours ago, Jaegermeister said:

 

Horses man.... more like this!

 

 

My logic is a little less linear, but the problem is it won't follow along behind a cart anyway

 

 

 

 

 

 

 You can do even better by hiding some of the horses under a haystack or a house or whatever object so that only one horse is visible with the cart or tent cart.

I used these kind of tricks in my additional mission that is entirely played with the collector Gaz 72k vehicle. When going through villages there this kind of tricks have the most impact. The other cases is when flying low on the villages and village roads that it creates some semblance of life. 

I added some dead cows and horses around bombed houses in villages and it is really a plus. What seems strange is that the TentCart object has no destroyed model. So when a truck full of explosives crashed and exploded on a tent cart with a horse, the horse was dead the truck was burnt and charred and the tent cart was in the middle of the burning truck completely unscathed. Ah all these small details to finish up. It is a never ending story ? 

 

[Jaegermeister]

In all seriousness, if we could get a walking horse pulling a cart or artillery piece, it would be cool if the ammunition cart would blow up like the ammo truck does, maybe just not quite as large an explosion. I think the issue is whether anyone that "could" do it has it on their list anywhere. Static targets are fine and all, but columns moving slowly down the road are more useful.

[Missionbug]

Not sure but I think there was a mod for R.O.F. that had moving horses and soldiers but from what I have read the guys that introduced them and some objects to R.O.F. cannot get the work they made for it to work in the current sim.

 

There were quite a few things object wise that it would be nice to use in F.C. in particular as well as the moving stuff, maybe some of it could have a re-paint so it was useful for WWI and WWII.  Seems a shame those guys do not have access to the current tools, maybe the development team might take a look at them and import them on their behalf.

 

Take care and be safe.

 

Wishing you all the very best, Pete.

[jollyjack]

Good Ol' Rise of Flight; Why not in FC1 and 2?:

 

 

[Missionbug]

I had forgot just how good those animations looked, lovely models.

 

Take care and be safe.

 

Wishing you all the very best, Pete.

[SYN_Vander]

45 minutes ago, Missionbug said:

I had forgot just how good those animations looked, lovely models.

 

Take care and be safe.

 

Wishing you all the very best, Pete.

 

Thanks! The horse I found somewhere on the internet, the artillery cart and soldier are existing RoF models. The soldiers I had to cut into pieces to animate.

It was was my first attempt at animation ever in 3dsmax and was fun to learn. The limitation was that there was only one 'argument' ( the variable to be used for animation) I could use, which is based on speed. So all moving objects follow the same cycle. The second cart for instance has smaller front wheels, but both front and back wheels will rotate with the same speed, which is of course incorrect but luckily is hard to notice  .

[jollyjack]

21 hours ago, SYN_Vander said:

 

Thanks! The horse I found somewhere on the internet, the artillery cart and soldier are existing RoF models. The soldiers I had to cut into pieces to animate.

It was was my first attempt at animation ever in 3dsmax and was fun to learn. The limitation was that there was only one 'argument' ( the variable to be used for animation) I could use, which is based on speed. So all moving objects follow the same cycle. The second cart for instance has smaller front wheels, but both front and back wheels will rotate with the same speed, which is of course incorrect but luckily is hard to notice  .

 

job well done !

[Beebop]

On 2/15/2022 at 7:54 PM, Jaegermeister said:

the problem is it won't follow along behind a cart anyway

That's what you get for putting the cart before the horse. ?