Footage of IL-2 attack run

[Kurfurst]

I have never seen a footage of an actual Il-2 ground attack gun camera, but here is it. Apparently the footage was found unlabelled in the film archives of V.P. Chkalov GLIK.

 

 

 

[messsucher]

That was very interesting, he flew like below treetop heights at times and slow. Quite different from western strafing videos I have seen.

[Elem]

Nice to know I'm doing something right.

[impulse200]

7 минут назад, Elem сказал:

Nice to know I'm doing something right.

If you mean missing almost every shot... Yeah, I'm doing that too. ?

[Yogiflight]

What I especially noticed, the trucks are not moving, while the IL-2 is around, not like in the game, the trucks sometimes standing, but when you attack one, it starts moving immediately.

About not hitting, I always attack from the side, even if that means. I have to shoot through the trees. The target simply is much larger. Just use the rudder to stay on target, when the truck is moving.

[Lord_Strange]

Surprisingly clear footage, I would say on par with the quality of German gun cameras. Certainly better than most British/US footage you see.

[I./JG52_Woutwocampe]

I cant help but think that aircrafts are too stable a gun platform in sims. 

 

Every gun cam or almost shows pilots using a sweep burst around the target instead of aiming directly at the target. Most of the time less than 20% of bullets hit, we usually have a higher %. I think the aircrafts were more shaky irl than what we actually get in sims.

 

Just a thought.

 

Awesome vid btw.

[Diggun]

45 minutes ago, I./JG52_Woutwocampe said:

I cant help but think that aircrafts are too stable a gun platform in sims. 

Don't know what you mean, old boy...

 

 

[Guest deleted@134347]

I was expecting to see some juicy tracer shots... however all I saw was puffs of smoke here and there on the ground..

 

got upset because no tracers..

 

then realized that the pilot probably wouldn't be able to see his targets behind them...

 

smart.. smart smart.. smart smaaaart...

[BlitzPig_EL]

Something to consider.  Sim " pilots" typically have far more hours of combat seat time than any WW2 pilot.  We are not cold, hungry, worried about our own lives, or the lives of our loved ones at home, and do this for fun.  We are utterly  dispassionate cold blooded killers of pixels.  We have no fear and laugh when we tie the record for lowest flight, then hit the "start" button and go up for more.  Is it any wonder we are so good at what we do in the sim?

 

Adding artificial instability for the sake of "realism" is just plain silly.  So many basic functions of "flying" in a sim are already more difficult than flying a real aircraft already.

Adding another on this level would only make our tiny player base even smaller.

 

Remember, harder isn't more real, it's just harder.

[Guest deleted@134347]

4 minutes ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

Adding artificial instability for the sake of "realism" is just plain silly

 

well, that function is already available = increase the wind speed at the engagement height. It'll shake your AC enough to destabilize the shots quite dramatically.

[[CPT]Crunch]

We need our roads widened out to match, way to narrow, no wonder the trees obstruct everything.

[Yogiflight]

56 minutes ago, [CPT]Crunch said:

We need our roads widened out to match, way to narrow, no wonder the trees obstruct everything.

In Russia there were no roads like we know them. In fact on most of the 'roads' trucks and even tanks would not have been able to move with speeds like you see them in game. And as I pointed out above trucks were not moving in an arial attack. The drivers stopped and jumped out of the truck to take cover.

[Avimimus]

I find the scope of the supply convoy interesting - it brings home the idea that the percentage of anti-aircraft guns to trucks was much smaller than we are used to. So, the Il-2 would mainly be armoured against small arms fire! The rocket impacts are also interesting.

 

I wonder what the field of view was on that camera?

[RedKestrel]

5 minutes ago, Yogiflight said:

In Russia there were no roads like we know them. In fact on most of the 'roads' trucks and even tanks would not have been able to move with speeds like you see them in game. And as I pointed out above trucks were not moving in an arial attack. The drivers stopped and jumped out of the truck to take cover.

Yeah you can see one guy making a run for it around 1:15-1:18 in the video.

 

[Avimimus]

 

 

  

3 minutes ago, Yogiflight said:

In Russia there were no roads like we know them. In fact on most of the 'roads' trucks and even tanks would not have been able to move with speeds like you see them in game. And as I pointed out above trucks were not moving in an arial attack. The drivers stopped and jumped out of the truck to take cover.

 

I remember an account of western fighter-bombers sending one aircraft down the length of the convoy, and one aircraft on each side (to try to catch the crews who had bailed out). Cannon for the trucks, machineguns for the crews?

 

Btw. Standard practice for trains was to bring the train to a halt (removing the chance of catastrophic derailment), generate as much steam as possible, and bail out... so it would be similar (assuming the train spotted the attackers). That said, there are also accounts of locomotive crews being unaware that they were under attack due to the steam and noise of the cab. What one wouldn't see is instantaneous decoupling of damage wagons/coaches like happens in Il-2!

[I./JG52_Woutwocampe]

3 hours ago, Diggun said:

Don't know what you mean, old boy...

 

 

 

Yak 1B?

[40plus]

What a target rich environment! Our convoys seem puny and the roads desolate in comparison...

Also ditches! the roads have ditches. In the sim convoy trucks pull 50m off the road when attacked on to the grass like it was a smooth parking lot.

[Diggun]

27 minutes ago, I./JG52_Woutwocampe said:

 

Yak 1B?

Indeed

[Rjel]

I wonder if that was an actual 16mm gun camera or a larger 35mm camera being used? It was a very clear film. I "recognized" the stretch of heavily tree lined road. I too did not see many hits but I did see 2-3 Germans jumping out of trucks running for their lives.

[Kurfurst]

11 hours ago, messsucher said:

That was very interesting, he flew like below treetop heights at times and slow. Quite different from western strafing videos I have seen.

 

The footage makes you think if any Il-2 pilot ever flew above 100m.

 

Really, removing the altimeter should be added as a weight saving mod. 

[LukeFF]

12 minutes ago, VO101Kurfurst said:

The footage makes you think if any Il-2 pilot ever flew above 100m.

 

Really, removing the altimeter should be added as a weight saving mod. 

 

Yes, it was the same deal with Hs 129 pilots - one pilot called it flying at "beer bottle height" and another said he flew so low that he could've shook hands with Ivan. ?

[CAFulcrum]

10 hours ago, I./JG52_Woutwocampe said:

I cant help but think that aircrafts are too stable a gun platform in sims. 

 

Every gun cam or almost shows pilots using a sweep burst around the target instead of aiming directly at the target. Most of the time less than 20% of bullets hit, we usually have a higher %. I think the aircrafts were more shaky irl than what we actually get in sims.

 

Just a thought.

 

Awesome vid btw.

That pretty much describes my gunnery unless I've been sitting in a m16 in war thunder practice range shooting the same airplane down for an hour to lock in trajectory.  Joystick curves weren't a thing back then either.  Or enough practice to make snapshots viable.  imo the sway is about right compared to what's seen in guncam videos.

[Beebop]

Nice find!  The first 30 seconds or so looked like the game, roads closely bracketed with tress.  The rest....I always thought there were too many trees along the roads on most all of the maps.

 

12 hours ago, Yogiflight said:

I always attack from the side, even if that means. I have to shoot through the trees. The target simply is much larger.

Makes sense.  But everything I've read from IL-2 pilots indicates the attack profile shown in the video was standard practice for IL-2's.  They would line up Line Astern with a bit of distance between them and the plane ahead, run the length of the target, (convoy or train) then turn (usually) left and go to the back of the line.  Two attack runs or until ammo was expended if not taking heavily casualties.

[Uufflakke]

21 hours ago, RedKestrel said:

Yeah you can see one guy making a run for it around 1:15-1:18 in the video.

 

 

Actually you can see a soldier running away from a truck twice.

 

And what I also would like to see in game are horse-drawn vehicles just like in the beginning of the video.

 

 

Edited February 12, 2022 by Uufflakke

[LuftManu]

23 hours ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

We are not cold, hungry, worried about our own lives, or the lives of our loved ones at home, and do this for fun.  We are utterly  dispassionate cold blooded killers of pixels. 

Damm, your putting it like we are true serial killers ?

Jokes aside I agree with your point. We sometimes forget that your hands will tremble in those situations.

[BlitzPig_EL]

Indeed.  In the real deal it was truly a life and death situation every time you went up.  In the sim it's at it's most serious an "eSport" and for most a fun pastime.

[Beebop]

2 hours ago, Uufflakke said:

And what I also would like to see in game are horse-drawn vehicles just like in the beginning of the video.

?

We tend to think of WWII as totally mechanized.  Only the Americans were completely mechanized and, (as far as I know and I could be wrong), and did not rely on animal power to move men and materials.

Being as this is primarily an Eastern Front sim I think there should be more draft animals modeled, even if only static objects.  The cows we do have are all grazing and the horses look like they are on a........stud farm? 

[LukeFF]

3 minutes ago, Beebop said:

Only the Americans were completely mechanized

 

The British were entirely mechanized as well. It was one of the hard-learned lessons they learned from the First World War.

[Irishratticus72]

On 2/11/2022 at 3:16 PM, BlitzPig_EL said:

 We are utterly  dispassionate cold blooded killers of pixels. 

I watched from the safety of a far riverbank, as those pixels wiped out my entire village, I can still hear the screams of the goats on many a dark, cold winter's night. 

[Beebop]

8 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

 

The British were entirely mechanized as well. It was one of the hard-learned lessons they learned from the First World War.

I thought so but wasn't sure about "The Phony War/Battle of France" for instance so I kept to (what I thought) was true.

Thanks for the clarification.

[[CPT]Crunch]

1 hour ago, Beebop said:

?

We tend to think of WWII as totally mechanized.  Only the Americans were completely mechanized and, (as far as I know and I could be wrong), and did not rely on animal power to move men and materials.

Being as this is primarily an Eastern Front sim I think there should be more draft animals modeled, even if only static objects.  The cows we do have are all grazing and the horses look like they are on a........stud farm? 

US actually did form and recruit a Mule Corps, they grabbed farm boys and cow pokes off the upper mid-west and great plains whenever they discovered they had experience handling animals.  No one wanted the duty, it was hard work, but the corps was eventually dissolved and these men were surplussed, nobody really wanted them until they were grabbed as commando's, the movie "The Great Raid" was these guys, records of special operations accomplishments, many that still remain unbroken.

[Yogiflight]

3 hours ago, LukeFF said:

 

The British were entirely mechanized as well. It was one of the hard-learned lessons they learned from the First World War.

I am pretty sure the Germans would have mechanized all their troops as well if they could. But building tanks, guns, aircrafts and all that stuff was of greater importance.

[sevenless]

23 hours ago, Beebop said:

?

We tend to think of WWII as totally mechanized.  Only the Americans were completely mechanized

 

Yep, the Wehrmacht was 75-80% horse-drawn. Many people forget this while watching propaganda footage of the Wochenschau.

[Freycinet]

Looks to me like thee is a lot of rudder action by that il-2 pilot.

[Chris65]

On 2/13/2022 at 2:43 PM, Freycinet said:

Looks to me like thee is a lot of rudder action by that il-2 pilot.

I noticed that too, a lot of sideways crabbing, either that or they  mounted the camera crooked.