Please! "Snap" capability of NeckSafer built into IL2 so we can use OpenComposite in VR

[TX-Zigrat]

a) VR NeckSafer is really a game changer for the fun of IL-2 in VR. Because of limited FOV (I only get 86 degrees FOV in my Q2) you can't adequately "check 6" even when turning because you cant use your peripheral vision, and even within the 86 degrees FOV it's quite blurry at the edges because of the Fresnel lenses.

 

b) VRNS works awesome to fix these issues, but requires use of Steam VR

 

c) I get very good performance in IL-2 when using OpenComposite with my Quest2, but MUCH worse with SteamVR. (about 25% worse, plus much more variable) Even dropping the graphics, I cannot get the frametime stability in SteamVR that I get in OpenComposite. 

 

d) It seems it would be quite simple to add 45 degree snap views to IL-2 without requiring NeckSafer.  Other games allow this capability, like Aces High. This would be "good enough" and let many of us avoid NeckSafer and get the needed FPS by using OpenComposite.

 

Have the Dev's ever weighed in on this idea?

 

 

 

 

[messsucher]

Would be a good idea to add those features, but make them part of the difficulty level toggles, like simple engine management. This snap view is owl arcade neck, and have no room in full real servers.

[TX-Zigrat]

Not sure if you read my post. In VR unless you have PiMax you only see directly in front of you, about 90 degrees FOV, and really with the Quest2 you only see clearly in the middle 60 degrees.. In reality you see much more of a wide FOV. So without accomodation for this limitation, VR is unrealistically constrained. Adding a ~45 degree snap to allow for rear vision gets you back to "Realistic"

 

As a former TrackIR user, without necksafer you are at extreme disadvantage in VR against eitehr snap view or track IR users-- which is basically everyone else

 

[messsucher]

Those VR differences are gear issues. Life is such that everyone is not in equal position. Some have tons of money to put on the greatest joysticks, computers and other hardware, and some do not. You say it is unrealistically constrained to check six in VR. I am not sure about that. In real with all the clothing, goggles, belts, hands on controls, and stuff, do you think it would had been easy to owl check your six every 5 secs in the middle of 5 g turns etc? I think even with the restrictions of VR headsets it is more easy to check your six in your home than in real WW2 warbird during a dogfight. That said, the point is not which is more easy. The point is that arcade features should be toggleable features.

 

TrackIR users have it most easy and unrealistic. However, do you seriously think that making a simulator most easy and unrealistic is the way to go? I don't suggest you to do this, but I have heard there is a game like that made already, called Warthunder.

 

TrackIRs and snapviews nullify some benefits of flying with a squadron. Those are literally game changers regarding that, giving unfair advantage. It is not even a matter of gear issue, it is flat out unfair arcade advantage.

 

Anyway, I have nothing against that gear, owl neck features, and snap views. It is all fine, but like so many other realism toggles, make those features with realism toggle too. This way it is up to the server admins to chose what realism/difficulty toggles they enable. Then in the HC Topdog server those snapviews can be disabled, meaning that at least VR pilots can't use them. At the moment there is only one HC Topdog server, the rest are more like arcade servers, where all sort of arcade features has been argued to be "realistic", and hence not toggled out. That one HC server is priceless, and it would be good for the game overall that the server remain as the HC combatants home.

 

So, in the end I am not sure did you read my post. All I am asking is that make arcade features with a chance to disable them. Doing this the game caters to everyone, no matter what is your view of "realism". Offline players can enable and disable what they want. Online server admins can do the same, and online pilots can then chose in what server they fly.

[=420=Syphen]

2 hours ago, TX-Zigrat said:

.Because of limited FOV (I only get 86 degrees FOV in my Q2)

 

VRCover makes a replacement facial interface that gives you a nice bump in FoV for the Q2.  Worth checking out. 

[TX-Zigrat]

I don't disagree that it would be nice to have some universal view difficulty setting, but I think this conversation is going off track. To get it back on track, I'd like to bring it back to the original point: allow OpenComposite users to have a similar functionality as that which is already enjoyed by Steam VR users through the use of VRNS.

 

 

[Dawg35]

21 hours ago, messsucher said:

 

TrackIR users have it most easy and unrealistic.

 

TrackIRs and snapviews nullify some benefits of flying with a squadron.

So, since you're opposed to enabling this realism enhancement (that's really what it is) for FOV limited VR users why aren't you protesting the usage of TrackIR and snapviews? Those advantages are okay but VR people are just out of luck?

[GOA_Karaya_VR]

The topic is delicate, and you have to know how to talk about it without entering into a debate that hurts feelings and creates a toxic environment between the users of Track Ir and Virtual Reality, I personally prefer virtual reality and actually checking all 6 involves many times (especially if the FOV is limited) completely move your body to be able to see what is happening behind, this situation in TrackIR is different and allows the user to have more control and reaction of the environment. In any case, those of us who prefer VR instead of TrackIr know our strengths and weaknesses and checking all 6 is one of them, so it would be nice if the developers help us with a key that allows us to quickly look back, we would greatly appreciate that since using third-party programs saturates the computer with processes, especially when using Steam VR, or that the creators of OpenComposite help us with that function for those of us who use Oculus Rift

 

 

 

 

[messsucher]

2 hours ago, Dawg35 said:

So, since you're opposed to enabling this realism enhancement (that's really what it is) for FOV limited VR users why aren't you protesting the usage of TrackIR and snapviews? Those advantages are okay but VR people are just out of luck?

 

I am never against new features. I have said it is a good feature, there are people who want it, and they have justification for it. I have asked those views to be put under realism toggle. The reason being that I myself am in heaven with VR, it is better than I have could ever imagined, and I don't want to ruin that experience with some snapviews. I can't be against TrackIR because it is hardware solution with snapview type features, so that it is usable at all. But in my perfect world there would be VR only server with no snapviews, just like there are different servers already. If there would be 10 bigger playerbase, then there might be VR only server.

 

Anyway, I leave this discussion, I have said what I want, I go try get that 10 bigger playerbase, it would be the best solution to many things.

[NattyDreadNought]

I would like to add my voice to the request for a VR check six snap view being implemented in-game.

This would remove the requirement for 3rd Party apps (i.e. Necksafer) which break with updates and new HMDs.

I think it’s a reasonable

request as it levels the playing field with TrackIR. NOTE: this is NOT a dig at TIR users.

Furthermore, it makes competitive MP more widely accessible for people with restricted movements. It also means the prevention of repetitive stress injuries. No one wants to find that their favourite sim is causing strains and pain!

How about it? Surely it can’t be technically difficult (open to being corrected), and so must be some kind of ‘policy’ issue.

[firdimigdi]

Or, as was shown in the preview videos of CLOD's VR implementation (and is available somewhat in a special version of Necksafer) instead of snapview have a threshold and a multiplier for yaw, you still have to turn your head but it smoothly accelerates the rotation after you pass the set threshold. Much like with TrackIR's curves.

[=LD=Nephrill]

I saw that Team Fusion is going to implement it in Cliffs of Dover. So it is possible! I don't use the snap or button press with the neck saver. I use the version with amplification and it is awesome!!

[NattyDreadNought]

7 hours ago, Firdimigdi said:

Or, as was shown in the preview videos of CLOD's VR implementation (and is available somewhat in a special version of Necksafer) instead of snapview have a threshold and a multiplier for yaw, you still have to turn your head but it smoothly accelerates the rotation after you pass the set threshold. Much like with TrackIR's curves.

Pray tell me good sir, what is this ‘special version of VRNecksafer to which you refer? I’d love to find it! I have 2.09 and successfully used previous versions of VRNS, but I’m uncertain about any other versioning

[firdimigdi]

23 minutes ago, 453=Jihadi_Daddy said:

Pray tell me good sir, what is this ‘special version of VRNecksafer to which you refer? I’d love to find it! I have 2.09 and successfully used previous versions of VRNS, but I’m uncertain about any other versioning

 

Here ya go - I keep linking to it in the VRNS thread because it's not immediately available on the first page (it's available in the repository though without much explanation)

 

https://gitlab.com/NobiWan/vrnecksafer/-/blob/master/VRNeckSafer/Release/VRNeckSaferv02exp.zip

[dgiatr]

3 hours ago, Firdimigdi said:

 

Here ya go - I keep linking to it in the VRNS thread because it's not immediately available on the first page (it's available in the repository though without much explanation)

 

https://gitlab.com/NobiWan/vrnecksafer/-/blob/master/VRNeckSafer/Release/VRNeckSaferv02exp.zip

I feel a little dizzy with that version...dont you guys?

[firdimigdi]

19 minutes ago, dgiatr said:

I feel a little dizzy with that version...dont you guys?

 

Nope. Sensitivity to such motions differs from person to person though; if you can stomach moving around with free camera in VR you should be OK with this.

 

That said, maybe play with the settings; I've got it set so it starts at 120 degrees with 70% factor so it basically stars giving a nudge when looking fully over my shoulder enough to clear my six by the time I swivel around, it's not very exaggerated.

[NattyDreadNought]

OK. Cool. What are the basic principles of operation (there’s no Read Me)? 

[firdimigdi]

33 minutes ago, 453=Jihadi_Daddy said:

OK. Cool. What are the basic principles of operation (there’s no Read Me)? 

 

 

Set the threshold of degrees you want it to Start at and the Factor by which to multiply your head's yaw motion. Once you rotate your head more than the threshold then rotation will be accelerated/amplified.

[dgiatr]

Ok i will try it again with your settings to see how it goes

43 minutes ago, Firdimigdi said:

 

 

Set the threshold of degrees you want it to Start at and the Factor by which to multiply your head's yaw motion. Once you rotate your head more than the threshold then rotation will be accelerated/amplified.

Spoiler

 

 

[=LD=Nephrill]

1 hour ago, Firdimigdi said:

 

 

Set the threshold of degrees you want it to Start at and the Factor by which to multiply your head's yaw motion. Once you rotate your head more than the threshold then rotation will be accelerated/amplified.

I have set it to start at 0% and factor 70. So it is enabled all the time. In the beginning is was weird but my brain adapted. In my experience when you set the factor higher then 70% it is to fast and you miss out planes when spotting. Your head is always wobbling around (by some people more then by others) and Necksaver can amplify that.

[NattyDreadNought]

12 minutes ago, =LD=Nephrill said:

I have set it to start at 0% and factor 70. So it is enabled all the time. In the beginning is was weird but my brain adapted. In my experience when you set the factor higher then 70% it is to fast and you miss out planes when spotting. Your head is always wobbling around (by some people more then by others) and Necksaver can amplify that.

And this worked for you with the Aero?

[=LD=Nephrill]

No, I am using the first version of the HP Reverb G2.

[firdimigdi]

From the posts I see in the VRNeckSafer thread I don't think it plays well with the Aero.

[Thorne]

On 2/5/2022 at 3:26 PM, messsucher said:

Would be a good idea to add those features, but make them part of the difficulty level toggles, like simple engine management. This snap view is owl arcade neck, and have no room in full real servers.

 

I've written a full response in it's own thread, as this debate needs a home. I'd encourage you to go check it out.

 

In summery agree with OP's desire to incorporate a check-six assist for VR users in IL2. It is consistent with the customization already available to most peripherals; TrackIR (view speed curves), HOTAS response curves, and completely unregulated control binds, while also being completely necessary given the tight FOV of most HMDs and the many neck disabilities within the communities.

 

+1 for adding a native check-six function for VR users in IL2

[VL_Joffski]

Adding another vote for this. I get FPS of 60+ using OpenComposite, but less than 40 using SteamVR (this has deteriorated recently). I've spent the best part of the last week trying to improve the Steam VR performance to no avail. VRNS is a godsend for all the reasons above, but Steam VR is nigh on unplayable (20 FPS on Finnish a few minutes ago).