Flying Circus Future

[Enceladus828]

59 minutes ago, Zooropa_Fly said:

And I'd be truly shocked if the Devs were to re-do WW1 in the new engine.

Enough people wouldn't pay again for FC - no way enough will pay a 3rd time.

Perhaps they’ll start a WW1 series in the new engine with maps not in FC such as the Italian Front map, some Eastern Front maps and others like Palestine and the Balkans.

[Trooper117]

4 hours ago, Zooropa_Fly said:

Enough people wouldn't pay again for FC - no way enough will pay a 3rd time.

 

Sadly, he's probably right!... but having said that, FC 4 will be released in the next patch! 

Edited August 26, 2024 by Trooper117

[RNAS10_Mitchell]

3 hours ago, Trooper117 said:

 

Sadly, he's probably right!... but having said that, FC 4 will be released in the next patch! 

Cut off our noses to spite our faces has never really appealed to me.   But that's just me.  I'd buy it.  Assuming it would be new and improved.  With better AI, Graphics, FM's, DM's, better maps, new maps/theaters, better interface, etc.   Would expect many if not all the same aircraft (not like there's unlimited options there really). Could add Zeppelin's, float planes,  N24, Bently Camel, Alb variants, Spad variants, Morane Bullet, etc.. and lots of 2 seaters.  Absolutely. 

 

Edited August 26, 2024 by RNAS10_Mitchell

[ST_Catchov]

8 hours ago, Zooropa_Fly said:

And I'd be truly shocked if the Devs were to re-do WW1 in the new engine.

 

You're in for a shock then lad. I have it on good authority that young Robin knows for certain and without any doubt that BoB is coming to the new engine. Of course it follows that THAT OTHER great aerial battle, that is to say, THE FIRST BLITZ, the first EVER battle over foreign territory using aircraft EVER in the history of the universe, over SE England and London by ZEPPELINS and GOTHAS is also coming. And this time, with HEDGES .... and SEAPLANES! Such is the power of the new engine.

 

Be prepared! The GREAT CHANNEL MAP OF WW1 is imminent!

 

 

Edited August 26, 2024 by ST_Catchov

[BraveSirRobin]

Catchov is probably right.  They’ll probably eventually add WW1 aircraft to the new platform.  The only downside is that we’ll all be dead by then.  A Catchov-22, if you will.

[ST_Catchov]

5 hours ago, BraveSirRobin said:

Catchov is probably right.

 

That goes straight to the pool room, framed and laminated.

 

[US103_Baer]

Yeah,  I mean it's a bit of a no-brainer to bring existing modules over to the new engine eventually. Models, maps etc are all there. We all bought FC didn't we,  and we'll buy the new one too, though BSR's not wrong, it'll be a helluva wait.

 

I'd have thought that time spent on FMs now is not wasted and can be reused in future ports, even if there's a change in engine. In fact you can make the argument that testing the FM waters now, by aligning to a single, solid data set like Anders is better than risking it with a new product. Though 'all new fms' might be the only usp they have by then!

 

[BraveSirRobin]

13 minutes ago, ST_Catchov said:

That goes straight to the pool room, framed and laminated.

Having it engraved on your gravestone might be more appropriate.  You won’t live to see it.  Neither will I.

[LukeFF]

13 minutes ago, US103_Baer said:

Yeah,  I mean it's a bit of a no-brainer to bring existing modules over to the new engine eventually. Models, maps etc are all there. We all bought FC didn't we,  and we'll buy the new one too, though BSR's not wrong, it'll be a helluva wait.

 

I'd have thought that time spent on FMs now is not wasted and can be reused in future ports, even if there's a change in engine. In fact you can make the argument that testing the FM waters now, by aligning to a single, solid data set like Anders is better than risking it with a new product. Though 'all new fms' might be the only usp they have by then!

 

 

If anything for WWI is made in the revised IL-2 Series engine it will be created essentially from scratch because of the significant changes being made to the rendering code, among other things. No ports.

[Dr1falcon500]

This might be useful and may be more accurate for flight models. NASA data. https://ntrs.nasa.gov/api/citations/19850023776/downloads/19850023776.pdf

[ST_Catchov]

3 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

If anything for WWI is made in the revised IL-2 Series engine it will be created essentially from scratch because of the significant changes being made to the rendering code, among other things. No ports.

 

So be it. It'll be much better.

 

9 minutes ago, BraveSirRobin said:

Having it engraved on your gravestone might be more appropriate.  You won’t live to see it.  Neither will I.

 

Quite. I promote the idea of a WW1 flight sim in the new engine, not for myself Robin, but for the younger generation. Yes, one can have Spits and Me's and Jugs and Jets but is there anything more majestic than a biplane in flight. I think not. I just want to bring the joy and beauty of early aviation into the hearts and minds of youngsters, unselfishly and without credit. Then I can rest in peace.

 

It's just the kind of guy I am.

 

[IckyATLAS]

2 hours ago, LukeFF said:

 

If anything for WWI is made in the revised IL-2 Series engine it will be created essentially from scratch because of the significant changes being made to the rendering code, among other things. No ports.

In software development reusability is a key element to speed up the process. I stopped software development in 1996 and frankly I am astonished that we have not improved much. Porting from one engine to another if the data is well designed should be a no-brainer by today. 30 years of software development platforms and tools and yet we have to redo things from scratch. That's depressing. This is maybe the reason why we have so little projects of this type. A new up to date engine means I have to redo all the stuff. I thought that we would have made progress on this point. No secret that it is so costly to change engine. Maybe it is a good strategy to use an engine like Unreal 5 or similar where you have a company and people that are dedicated to continuously upgrade the engine for top quality. You have to pay for it but In this way your data remains compatible and yet yo get all the benefit of an engine that remains up-to-date. This means that over time the visual quality will continuously improve and there will be little to do on your data. 

[Aapje]

They are using a fundamentally different technique for rendering and textures, so it is logical that they can't just reuse the same textures or designs. I think that they'd have the same issue with UE.

[JG4_Moltke1871]

18 hours ago, Enceladus828 said:

Perhaps they’ll start a WW1 series in the new engine with maps not in FC such as the Italian Front map, some Eastern Front maps and others like Palestine and the Balkans.

I would like to resupply deutsch Ostafrika 🌴 with a Zeppelin ☝🏻

[RNAS10_Mitchell]

4 hours ago, IckyATLAS said:

In software development reusability is a key element to speed up the process. I stopped software development in 1996 and frankly I am astonished that we have not improved much. Porting from one engine to another if the data is well designed should be a no-brainer by today. 30 years of software development platforms and tools and yet we have to redo things from scratch. That's depressing. This is maybe the reason why we have so little projects of this type. A new up to date engine means I have to redo all the stuff. I thought that we would have made progress on this point. No secret that it is so costly to change engine. Maybe it is a good strategy to use an engine like Unreal 5 or similar where you have a company and people that are dedicated to continuously upgrade the engine for top quality. You have to pay for it but In this way your data remains compatible and yet yo get all the benefit of an engine that remains up-to-date. This means that over time the visual quality will continuously improve and there will be little to do on your data. 

Well said Sir.  Perhaps the phrase port is being being interpreted too literally by some?  When I think about "porting" the old content to the revised engine, I don't mean just copy it in.  I mean use the data collected. The raw data.  Lift, drag, etc..  I don't envision that as a straight copy and paste either.  Assuming this type of data is maintained in tables or similar in the current game, and will also be stored in tables in the new software (certainly they haven't hard coded these parameters in the code?  It's not 1970 anymore), then they could populate the new table data with table data from the old.  Might be a manual process,  or some reasonably competent programmer could write a one time use program to do the task.  If this were to happen, someone would still need to verify and perhaps adjust the results.  Would not be perfect, but rather a starting point.  During a lifetime of application design and support, it was extremely common to reuse logic from one application to its newer version.  I don't understand this aversion to the concept of porting that seems to exist from the developers.   

To be clear, I'm taking about FM, and to a lesser extent DM code. 

Not skins, or paint, or any other graphics 

Edited August 27, 2024 by RNAS10_Mitchell

[BraveSirRobin]

13 hours ago, ST_Catchov said:

Quite. I promote the idea of a WW1 flight sim in the new engine, not for myself Robin, but for the younger generation. Yes, one can have Spits and Me's and Jugs and Jets but is there anything more majestic than a biplane in flight. I think not. I just want to bring the joy and beauty of early aviation into the hearts and minds of youngsters, unselfishly and without credit. Then I can rest in peace.

 

It's just the kind of guy I am.

 

Yes, I’m sure that all 5 of them who end up paying $100,000 per copy will never forget you.  

[Enceladus828]

On 8/26/2024 at 9:48 AM, Enceladus828 said:

Perhaps they’ll start a WW1 series in the new engine with maps not in FC such as the Italian Front map, some Eastern Front maps and others like Palestine and the Balkans.

 

22 hours ago, LukeFF said:

 

If anything for WWI is made in the revised IL-2 Series engine it will be created essentially from scratch because of the significant changes being made to the rendering code, among other things. No ports.

With what you declare the Gulf of Venice map can be the first of a new generation WW1 series followed by what I suggested and once that's done return to the Western Front with an expanded Channel Map to include London and Zeppelins and an updated Western Front map with 3D trenches and pre-1916 planes. A good compromise there in that we get more WW1 content but not immediately paying a third time for the same planes over the same place.

[ST_Catchov]

5 hours ago, Enceladus828 said:

Gulf of Venice map

 

Yeah a lot of WW1 junkies have expressed interest in this theatre of war and it would sell bigtime. The WWII boys wanted Italy in GB lol. Dreamers. But the Devs said no, steady on chaps you've already got so much. No deal. Why? Because they're gonna do WW1 Italy in the new engine and really do it justice. Korea's just practice.

 

It makes sense. New kites, new scenery, mountains and stuff. Water, lots of it and done proper in the new engine. Like you say Encey, it's not buying the same old stuff. It's a whole new ball game. That'll bring in the Rubles. Happy days. 

 

 

[IckyATLAS]

21 hours ago, RNAS10_Mitchell said:

I don't understand this aversion to the concept of porting that seems to exist from the developers.   

This aversion said simply and without being too direct is often to milk the cow as much as possible.

[BMA_Hellbender]

On 8/27/2024 at 6:18 AM, US103_Baer said:

Yeah,  I mean it's a bit of a no-brainer to bring existing modules over to the new engine eventually. Models, maps etc are all there. We all bought FC didn't we,  and we'll buy the new one too, though BSR's not wrong, it'll be a helluva wait.

 

I'd have thought that time spent on FMs now is not wasted and can be reused in future ports, even if there's a change in engine. In fact you can make the argument that testing the FM waters now, by aligning to a single, solid data set like Anders is better than risking it with a new product. Though 'all new fms' might be the only usp they have by then!

 

The port to IL-2/FC was necessary for the migration to a 64-bit engine alone. I think we're forgetting just how awful RoF ran on 2-4 GB of system memory with its infamous  "out of bones" integer overflow errors. 2010 was a very different time in PC gaming. We're probably looking at one more generation of flightsims running on compatible systems today before there is a new shift. That's 10 to 15 more years. And whether on the new IL-2 or on a competitor flightsim, I'm sure we'll see some WWI planes appear eventually.

 

Maybe I'll even get to retire my MSFFB2, it'll be over 30 years old by then.

[Aapje]

6 hours ago, IckyATLAS said:

This aversion said simply and without being too direct is often to milk the cow as much as possible.

 

I think it's more that people are reluctant to pay for 'the same,' when it actually requires quite a lot of work to port stuff over.

 

I think that it's understandable that the devs actually want to get paid for their work.

[IckyATLAS]

33 minutes ago, Aapje said:

I think that it's understandable that the devs actually want to get paid for their work.

No problem with that. Sorry for the misunderstanding here is the corrected phrase : milk the cow as long as possible.

[ZachariasX]

13 hours ago, IckyATLAS said:

milk the cow as long as possible.

Funny.

 

I remember the stage when RoF was at that stage. Then some of its assets were ported to GB Series... and here we are.

Edited August 29, 2024 by ZachariasX

[JGr2/J5_Klugermann]

On 8/28/2024 at 5:46 AM, =IRFC=Hellbender said:

Maybe I'll even get to retire my MSFFB2, it'll be over 30 years old by then.

 

Never

[Jackfraser24]

I really want to see a Tarnopol map, an Italian map, Italian map and a Channel map, but realistically I don't think that we are going to see any of them sorry. But who knows. They might make a huge announcement when they release Flying Circus Vol.IV that gives us a better insight into the future of Flying Circus. More maps! More collector planes! (Just maybe.)

[I/JG53_Kurtz]

I suppose the most probable development will be just a gradual release of the already announced aircrafts followed by a prolonged stop of release of new contents.

Then, after Korea first release and its further development, they will start thinking at WW1 in Korea engine. Basically the same events that brought from ROF to FC.

Obviously these are just guesses.

Edited September 2, 2024 by I/JG53_Kurtz

[Trooper117]

27 minutes ago, I/JG53_Kurtz said:

Obviously these are just guesses.

 

FC4 will be released in the next patch (confirmed)... After Korea they are doing the Pacific, so it will be years before they will go anywhere near a new version of FC in the new project, if at all...

[LukeFF]

3 hours ago, I/JG53_Kurtz said:

I suppose the most probable development will be just a gradual release of the already announced aircrafts followed by a prolonged stop of release of new contents.

Then, after Korea first release and its further development, they will start thinking at WW1 in Korea engine. Basically the same events that brought from ROF to FC.

Obviously these are just guesses.

 

As Trooper mentioned above, all of the FC Volume 4 aircraft will be released at once with the completed Western Front map, single missions, and career mode. What comes after that remains to be determined.

[Enceladus828]

5 hours ago, Trooper117 said:

 

FC4 will be released in the next patch (confirmed)... After Korea they are doing the Pacific, so it will be years before they will go anywhere near a new version of FC in the new project, if at all...

Yeah, if Ugra or another team is contracted to make a WW1 series in the Korea engine, not the Western Front for starters, it would be after Korea is released.

[Jackfraser24]

Questions about the future of Flying Circus

 

• How likely will there be a Flying Circus Vol. V? 
• Is there enough demand for a Channel map or a Tarnopol map?
• Should we expect to see more collector planes for the Western Front map coming in the near future?

Edited September 7, 2024 by Jackfraser24

[Trooper117]

10 hours ago, Jackfraser24 said:

Questions about the future of Flying Circus

 

• How likely will there be a Flying Circus Vol. V? 
• Is there enough demand for a Channel map or a Tarnopol map?
• Should we expect to see more collector planes for the Western Front map coming in the near future?

 

As stated above by Luke... nobody knows at present.

[=IRFC=Gascan]

I would love to see any of those, though. More planes would be very nice! Especially more two-seaters, like an early 1915 two seater for Central and Entente, and a 1918 recon for Central.

[JG4_Moltke1871]

36 minutes ago, =IRFC=Gascan said:

I would love to see any of those, though. More planes would be very nice! Especially more two-seaters, like an early 1915 two seater for Central and Entente, and a 1918 recon for Central.

The chance to get anything else beyond FC IV is very very low, unfortunately 😞

 

but like always I pray for the AEG G.IV as a collector plane. Very unique but also frequently used also as ground attacker for example in the 1918 spring offensive.

Also good to have an opposite online to the mighty Breguet 14 with a view on her massive bombload and strong engine.

The Breguet is the B52 under the two seaters 😅😅

 

[Jackfraser24]

1 hour ago, JG4_Moltke1871 said:

The chance to get anything else beyond FC IV is very very low, unfortunately 😞

I share your pessimism because they have only so much money, time and human resources but who knows what they really have planned. Maybe there will be a Flying Circus Vol. V. Or maybe third party developers aside from Ugra Media could make a Channel map as I hear a lot of people have been vocal about wanting one, or they could make a Tarnopol map. Personally I would like to see a Macedonian map and an Italian map because Flying Circus would be more than just a revamp of Rise of Flight. I'd also like to see someone do a map somewhere in Africa somewhere down the track. I think that would be cool.  

Edited September 7, 2024 by Jackfraser24

[Enceladus828]

1 hour ago, Jackfraser24 said:

I'd also like to see someone do a map somewhere in Africa somewhere down the track. I think that would be cool.  

Jack, I was just being rhetorical with my statement to you yesterday about WW1 aviation in Africa. Yes, there was relative aerial warfare in East Africa but how well known is the African theatre? That’s why I said that it would be many WW2 and WW1 installments down the road (after the Balkans and Palestine are added) before the Normandy map would be brought over to the Korea engine.

[Jackfraser24]

14 minutes ago, Enceladus828 said:

Jack, I was just being rhetorical with my statement to you yesterday about WW1 aviation in Africa. 

I knew you were being rhetorical. I just didn't explain well enough about my idea of East Africa your rhetorical comment inspired. I was just thinking that there could be be a third party map for Flying Circus for quick mission single player and as an arena for multiplayer. Probably wouldn't work though. Still, a man can dream...

19 minutes ago, Enceladus828 said:

Yes, there was relative aerial warfare in East Africa but how well known is the African theatre? 

Not well known. You're probably right about that. 

[No.23_Starling]

14 hours ago, JG4_Moltke1871 said:

The chance to get anything else beyond FC IV is very very low, unfortunately 😞

 

but like always I pray for the AEG G.IV as a collector plane. Very unique but also frequently used also as ground attacker for example in the 1918 spring offensive.

Also good to have an opposite online to the mighty Breguet 14 with a view on her massive bombload and strong engine.

The Breguet is the B52 under the two seaters 😅😅

 

The majority of planes have been RoF ports. We still have the float planes and Russian birds but I can’t see them coming along with map content. I don’t remember either being hugely popular in RoF multiplayer.

 

100% agreed on the gap for more German recons for early and late periods.

[Trooper117]

It doesn't matter whether it's WWI or WWII, people who ask for these obscure maps or aircraft are just not going to get them, no matter how often they bring it up.

The only map which has any chance of turning up at some stage will be the Channel map from RoF for obvious reasons.

Let's face it, the dev's are going to be full on in the near future with the new project once all the stuff they have talked about that is still to come for GB has been delivered.

Time to face up to it boys...

Yes, the recon element of needed planes is sorely missing I certainly agree, but can you honestly see them actually spending time and resources to make them, or even pay someone else to make them?... I doubt it.

And yes, I would really love to be completely wrong, but for me, the only chance of seeing a big push on WWI, will be if a few years in the future they decide to give it a go with the new engine... however, by that time the engine will probably be known as the old engine. lol!

 

[JG4_Moltke1871]

One thing that Flying Circus still does is not concern the air but the ground.
 

Infantry 

 

Some servers successfully implement infantry attacks on the ground like knights of the Sky or WingWalkers.

 

Build a German and a British rifleman, maybe a French Poilu and the Game has an aspect what a WW1 simulation should have.

[Jackfraser24]

On 9/9/2024 at 12:05 AM, JG4_Moltke1871 said:

One thing that Flying Circus still does is not concern the air but the ground.
 

Infantry 

 

Some servers successfully implement infantry attacks on the ground like knights of the Sky or WingWalkers.

 

Build a German and a British rifleman, maybe a French Poilu and the Game has an aspect what a WW1 simulation should have.

Infantry would be nice.